#4000 in Byte
78 messages in this thread
I think I saw a message on bix from the author of the article about the
4000. He has become a freelancer. He is very supportive of the Amiga.
One problem—he didn't receive his 4000 from C= until two days before his
deadline, so some explorations were not possible.
I agree with those who say we can communicate our anger and
disappointment without being rude. The fact is that BYTE is seriously
misleading its readers about systems that might be useful to them, IMHO.
But that doesn't mean they are a bunch of scumbags!
from C= until two days before his deadline
Geesh…..In that case he should have contacted Byte and let the review
slip a month. He should have remained in closer contact with Byte (and
Byte should have been in closer contact with Commodore) so that wouldn't
happen.
Steve
Right, Steve. I'll bet you a doughnut that if a hot new Compaq computer
showed up for review two days before deadline, the BYTE editors would've
backed off out of fairness…or else followed up a "first glance" report
with a full review. At minimum, BYTE's A4000 review should've run with an
editor's note saying they looked over the machine on a tight deadline.
That's just ethical journalism.
No, if Compaq had a new machine coming, there'd be a big to-do timed
exactly so the actual release of the machine was within two weeks of the
announcement on the cover.
You're right, John. Commodore hasn't the clout to leverage news
coverage with product release date, as Compaq or Apple have. OTOH, in
this case it sounds like C= was working hard up to release just to
get machines out the door. OTOOH (!), BYTE's dust-off treatment is
starkly different than the cover treatment it gave the original A3000
and System 2. You have to believe there's just less Amiga
understanding and interest among the current BYTE staff.
I'm good friends with a fellow who just got promoted to a an
editorial job at PC magazine. He's a PCer through and through, but
open-minded. I've been feeding him full of Amiga talk for years and
once even got him to go to an Amiga expo. His attitude toward the
Amiga is quite respectful but he confesses to forgetting about it
most of the time. No sinister motives; he's just caught up in the
all the Windows/Intel clone hype, and there's more than enough
activity there to capture his attention.
I'd just say one thing: CBM could easily have the *clout* you speak of.
They spend it (clout=money) offshore and on executive salaries instead.
Not saying right or wrong, just pointing out that they have clout, should
they decide to use it.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
And then BYTE would have taken the Amoeboid hatemail for not reviewing the
A4000. Ya can't win, Steve. Ya just can't win with these fanatics.
Hi Jim,
I'm just butting in to make an observation. When the Amiga 1000 first came
out in 1985, Byte gave it a great write up (and continued with interesting
articles for about a year) and that's how I happen to become an Amigan. I
wonder how many others came to the Amiga that way?
Gracia
Why don't these folks bi**h at PC magazine. After PC == Personal
Computer and the Amiga IS a personal computer. Or go after InfoWorld.
Or go after any of the others that carry even less about the Amiga
than does BYTE. I'll tell ya that the Amiga is an area of
frustration around BYTE magazine. They do try to cover the industry.
They have more about the Amiga than any other general computing
magazine. Yet they get so much more flack than praise that they just
want to drop the whole thing.
Did you read the review of the A4000? Did you see Yagers comment
about only having the machine for two days? I've seen Byte jumped on
for no good reason before. This time they let deadline pressure force
them to run an incomplete article with inaccurate statements. Very
irresponsible.
I would bet Amigans get especially upset with Byte because it's precieved
(rightly or wrongly) as THE original real technological hacker mag, where
as the others are precieved as business ventures geared to a particular
platform (read "business", where the $ are). As such, they feel the Amiga
should get regular exposure, as it did 7 years ago.
I agree that b****ing is counter productive, and like swearing, merely
calls attention to your own inability to express yourself intellegently. I
would rather call attention to my disappointment in their coverage and
hope that they would try to pique the interest of their readers in other,
though not mass market, viable plaforms. Certainly the Amiga is now
central to a lot of cable TV and small production houses.
Gracia
I suspect most of the antipathy I see among techies towards BYTE is a
feeling of being robbed of what was a wonderful techie magazine. It is
*NOT* a techie magazine anymore. *THAT* is what has driven me away from
reading BYTE regularly. *THAT* is why I may feel frustrated with them.
They have moved to a "technically aware user" format meaning they will do
"techie" articles which are so watered down that to us they seem like thin
gruel. Mostly they have articles telling users what and how to get things
done which they need done.
In the Amiga community, which seems overfilled with techies as opposed to
naive users, this loss of the techie aspects of BYTE simply compounds the
frustration when the Amiga is "not mentioned enough."
But then one has to ask, "what IS enough?" Do we take a ratio of Amigas
sold to PClones sold in BYTE's major market? If so they are mentioning the
Amiga a tad TOO often, nie?
{@_@}
"Do we take a ratio of Amigas sold to PClones sold in BYTE's major
market?"
JD: When magazine editors choose _news_ stories for publication based on
what is sold/selling, you can no longer call it "news". A more appropriate
term would be 'free advertising'.
You're much too sensible for the flames of this thread <giggle>. But I do
think that Michael Gerard, also a very sensible voice, has a valid point.
That has been my big complaint with the Times's "Personal computer" column
in the Science Tuesday section. It's not about "computing" as an art
and/or science with the many platforms to learn about, which was it's
original mandate. It's about pushing specific IBM and a maybe little Mac
hardware & software. All their other articles in that section are quite
informative with general scientific information, assuming an intelligent
readership, why not the computer ones? Sunday's Times has the Business
Computing column, the correct place for those PCLone articles.
Gracia
Howard Blumenthal has made me gag on many a Sunday morning.
So true, but at least he's in the right section for gaging <g>. I must
say, after talking to academic & business types (friends & relatives) on
INTERNET who I thought would be computer knowledgable, I realize 1) I know
more than most 2) which isn't saying much <G> 3) none of them have heard
of the Amiga or if they have they think it's a PClone 4) that's why all
those dull & simplistic MS DOS articles, they know their audience.
I'm really not picking on you… Perhaps your messages are the most
thought provoking. <g>
If one were to output articles strictly based on market share, then a new
product with zero share would get zero articles. (Or perhaps just one, and
then be dropped till it was successful.)
Did the original IBM PC languish for articles till it surpassed the Apple
II? Did the Mac, which had even less software at introduction, wait for
articles?
Nope, at that time, articles were based on what was new and exciting. Now
articles are weighed by market share? I guess by comparison, NeXt is
really overwritten about. I won't look forward to another article on them
for years. <g>
Personally, if the day comes when something new, and exciting, and better
than the Amiga, comes out. I want to hear about it, so I can go get one.
While I really like my Amiga, (I also have a clone, and a Mac +), if a
better machine is built, I want to hear all about it.
I think some magazines, use the market ratio approach to explain away their
fears of alienating those who must believe that their computer is the only
possible solution to the problem, and that they "bought right."
– Alex
I agree totally with what you said… I gereally thought both the Pounelle
column and the Amiga '040 review was generally quite favorable, sure,
there were a couple of innacuracies, but I don't think I've EVER seen a
totally accurate review of anything 🙂
I guess why Byte get's slammed, is because they do tend to try to be fair
and cover other computers and OS's. (Personally, I'm not sure I'd want an
article in PC, that magazine is useless to me because of it being more ads
than real info…)
I guess it's time to fire up excellence! and write a good letter to Byte!
And, thanks Joanne for your help in getting Jerry's A3000 up and running.
(And definitely your support of the Amiga!)
Bob Comer
Thanks Bob. It IS nice to know a few people appreciate the efforts.
{O.O}
far more than 'a few' appreciate your efforts.
Gracia,
I read those articles with interest and bought my 1000 the next year.
The hardware may not have gone too far, but the software has come a
LOOOONNNNGG way!
John,
Well C= may not have gone too far with the hardware, but they sure goosed
the others to catch up <giggle>. Thanks to IBM "inventing" color recently
big yack> we now are getting better and cheaper color printers.
I still love & use my 1000, though I have a 3000 & soon a 4000.
Gracia
I, too, got interested in the Amiga in large part due to Byte's coverage.
Too bad they stopped supporting anything but IBM and Mac systems.
If he submitted, and then they published, the article, for a huge
readership, after he had only two days to look the machine over, then the
words you're probably looking for are "criminally irresponsible". Fan or
no. Probably "scumbag" is irrelevant and inaccurate, I couldn't say.
Folks, all I can say is give up on Byte – they have a huge stake in the
Amiga's _failure_ – they are a PC magazine and that's highly unlikely to
change in the forseeable future…
Did anyone note the little hug they gave the Mac people about the puny,
feature-poor "morph" product they produced WAY after the Amiga had a VERY
powerful morph product? Just one more little indication of just how poor
the journalistic practices are at Byte. You can be sure we let them know,
too – it does NO good.
All this political kissy-kissy hasn't gotten CBM, Amiga users, or future
Amiga prospects one inch of useful progress.
Ads – agressive, hard-hitting, and truthful – those are the only things
that *I* can see that will do the Amiga any good in Byte.
Faugh.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
And if you think Byte is bad, you should flame CNN also. I saw a segment
on CNN's "Future Watch" in which they showed this incredible thing you can
do on a Mac called Morphing. They presented it as being the latest thing
with image manipulation. I think they should rename their show to "Stuck
in the past!".
John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
No, I'd blame it on public relations. I'm sure someone from that Mac
company called CNN. Ask any of the Amiga morph makers if they've called
CNN.
It could be public relations John, but would CNN do a story if Black Belt,
ASDG, Nova, or other Amiga company called them? I doubt it. The only
reason they did a story on the Toaster was because it was a NewTek
toaster, not the Amiga. Yes, public relations does play an important part,
but it seems like most news organizations think their are only 2 computers
in the marketplace, IBM PC's and the Mac.
John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
I strongly disagree. I don't think your average news hound knows or cares
about the difference between a Mac and a PC. They probably think they're as
similar as Coke and Pepsi. If anything, the Amiga might have a wedge to the
conventional, non-computer press, because it's novel and NOT a mainstream
computer. The "Inventions" segment on the Discovery Channel clearly
described the Toaster as being based on a Commodore Amiga, they had a 30-40
second segment showing the pieces going together… and I saw the "Next
Step" piece being shot on location in Topeka, and again, the host clearly
described it as an Amiga system.
You're wrong. They not only know, they base what they will cover on
that as a matter of size of interested viewing audience. That's just
about an exact quote from the female half of the FutureWatch show.
She was very interested in the IBM software, and zero, zilch, nix on
the Amiga s/w.
But we have counter-examples: NewTek, Mandala, Virtuality, Joe Conte (whose
Unsolved Mysteries stuff was featured on CNN without much mention of the
Toaster or Amiga per se)… I think it's all in the presentation, in the
P.R. spin. And there's other computer-oriented stuff I've seen that's not
PC or Mac centric: robots, Wavefront, scientific visualization, mapping,
lots of other things I've seen on cable news pieces.
If there's no mention of the Amiga, there's no value, John.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
So if CNN calls you tomorrow asking about ImageMaster, and they drop
buy to film your demos, and they mention your company and your
product, but not the Amiga, there's no "value"?
That's right – there's no value.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
This week CBS This Morning has been doing a series on computers. Listening
to their expert (an editor at PC Magazine), you'd never know there was
such a thing as a non-IBM-compatible computer. She was saying stuff like
"you'll need to decide between a 386SX and a 486SX when buying a home
computer…"
John,
Just to add two cents to this thread. I read an article in the
Washington Post yesterday about stock trading online in which a great deal
of the space was devoted to two programs for automating trading for the
PC. After he was done singing the praises of these two programs, just to
clear the air, he said that you didn't _have_ to have either of these two
programs to actually do any trading, after all the major online services
have brokers on them and anyone with a PC or Mac can access them. Gee,
maybe I should go buy a PC? Not!
C= (if it had the money) should work on product placement. C= would pay to
get the Amiga's name mentioned in connection with opinion leaders. E.g.,
how many average joes know that B.B. King composes blues riffs on an Amiga
about as often as on his blessed Lucille? He was interviewed on a CBS news
show a year or two back and you could even see the Workbench on his
monitor…but no mention of Amiga. For all anyone knew, it was an Atari ST
or Mac.
Now, B.B. was rightfully the focus of that CBS story, but the fact remains
that if the mass market ever begins to perceive the Amiga as a device used
by way-cool people, it could really take off. For instance, "Babylon 5"
could help bring that about if it turns out to be a successful TV series,
but only if the Amiga name connection is made.
In short, C= ought to turn the snob-appeal image problem around to the
Amiga's benefit. Who uses Amigas? Freaky-deaky techno-nerds? Or creative
professionals? It's mainly a matter of marketing.
I dunno, is BB King an opinion leader, or someone who wouldn't turn down a
free computer? I think he got one for doing promos for the A500 – I'm sure
those astronauts in the commercial got Amigas, too, but what have they done
with them lately? 🙂
John,
B.B. King had his A500 long before C= put him in an ad. I remember
reading an interview with him in a guitar magazine…must've been early
'88…where he mentions owning and using one. As I understand it, C=
found out that B.B. was writing songs on his Amiga; they then got in touch
with him.
-Dave (via AutoPilot)
No question but that Apple Computer has a mystique, which it spent
big bucks enhancing even after the natural "two guys started it in a
garage" opener. Commodore just doesn't have that mystique. People bow
to Apple. Heck, Bill Clinton had John Sculley at his economic
summit. The guy not only sells happy face computers, he used to push
Pepsi! How much more charisma do you need? Could anyone even imagine
any of Commodore International's big guns getting a similar nod?
Bottom line: C= just has to put out better product and work harder at
getting attention.
We called CNN. Well before the Mac show. They weren't interested.
Surprise! (not) We called afterwards, too. We faxed, we called some
more, we even tried to play on the fact that Turner and Fonda live in
this state – all no go.
Send 'em a morph of Turner turning into Fonda. 🙂
I've wanted to do a morph of Ross Perot turning into a Farengi
(sp). Especially after I heard that comment from a radio guy from
Vancouver.
So…what you're saying is the morph trimmed down the ears a bit, eh?
g>
Steve, I haven't _seen_ one, I'd sorta like to DO one. I think it
would be hilarious (sp)
I'm rollin' around on the floor just thinking about it!
Well, Get to it! But could you make it a full-screen Morph?
I don't have the 'starting' pictures, else it would have been
done LONG ago.
We did.
I don't think I would send CNN of Turner turning into Fonda, probably
something worse 8^)
You'll never get positive publicity for the Amiga, but there is a way
to have some fun. What you do is phone up CNN (or any other news
show) and tell them you've written an amazing PC image processing
program. (remember, PC is short for "personal computer" not short for
IBM) You invite them to Black Belt for the day and show them
ImageMaster running on a 4000. The 4000 looks a little bit like a
generic clone and you can tape over the logo.
After you've demo'd all ImageMaster's features and they've done the
interviews, shot lots of film, and generally wasted the day, you
strike.. You rip the cover off the Amiga logo and sit back to watch
the chaos.
The reporter drops dead instantly! The film crew destroys their
equipment to make sure nobody will ever see the footage! Your people
get a good laugh! And, if you were thinking ahead you send the
hidden camera footage to "Totally Hidden Video"
Sounds like fun. :^)
I'm sure when NewTek calls networks to discuss coverage, they don't focus
on the Amiga. That's Commodore's job. Instead, they pitch their product
alone – as they should.
One could argue that their product *IS* the Amiga, if you take into account
they get an Amiga, when they buy the whole box from Newtek. Course it isn't
called an Amiga then, that gets covered up….
(Wonder how many "Toaster" owners see Amiga software advertised, and don't
buy it because they don't want to go out and buy an Amiga? <g>) – Alex
I have a hard time believing that there are people who've bought a Toaster
system who don't realize they actually own an Amiga. But I do believe that
plenty of those people who ignored the Amiga now own one, because of the
Toaster. Now, as to whether those people who realize they own a Toaster,
will buy Amiga software… who knows. AmigaDOS is tougher to understand
than the Switcher.
I agree completely. "AmigaDOS is tougher to understand than the Switcher"
I provide 3-D graphics/animations to Toaster video producers in the San
Francisco bay area, and there is a large contingent of Toaster owners out
there who are fully aware of the AmigaDOS lurking behind the Toaster, but
CANNOT fathom how to use it.
It is unfortunate, but you cannot expect people who can barely understand
one GUI (be it Mac or Win) to be willing to take the time to learn yet
another GUI, just to take advantage of software that is not available on
other platforms (and that number of titles is unfortunately [for the
Amiga] diminishing daily). (Now, if only we could get all Amiga developers
to follow one standard GUI, at least the job would be easier!)
Most of my clients are more concerned with getting their job done, than
spending with spending the time learning a new interface. (Fortunately,
that works to my advantage, as more clients must rely on my services,
rather than learn a dozen cumbersome UIs to get the job done.)
Just my .02.
Erik Flom
Sometimes, when I reflect on the Amiga and the Mac and the PC, I think that
so many computer graphics people actually think that they created this
market… but to look at it another way, there has been, and always will
be, a tremendous number of people who are looking for more inexpensive ways
of solving big problems. It's a very general statement, I realize, but it
can go a long way to understanding how the Toaster market grew as fast as
it did, and may serve as a future warning as to how it might disappear.
The same goes for the Amiga market… if it stops solving people's
problems, it could disappear or mutate.
I'm just finishing up a comparative article for Desktop Video World
magazine, comparing a half-dozen presentation graphics packages on all
three platforms. It's still stunning just how much major butt-kicking the
Amiga can inflict on the other platforms. While the Amiga multimedia
presentation program was flipping screens at the fast-paced beat of a
techno-pop tune, the Mac and Windows packages were struggling to keep up
with the frame rate of a QuickTime movie. Blitters and multitasking are
still ahead of the Mac and PC.
In fact, we called FutureWatch, *and* faxed them; they said that there was
*no* chance that an Amiga program would get on the show. They were
interested in the PC product; I told them to "stuff it", and that I
thought as a news-based show, they were worth roach dung.
I was pretty mad.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Have you tried Computer Chronicles on PBS? It's a uphill battle,
but they have done a couple of pieces on the Amiga. They mentioned the
1200 when talking about Comdex.
Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
No, we have not. Although in fact at my home we watch PBS if we watch
anything (other than a few SF shows and CNN/HNN) PBS feels like a very
poor cousin compared to commercial networks. Computer Chronicles in
particular seems to embody the "no-budget" look – I don't think we want to
be on Computer Chonicles.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
The only reason I mentioned them is that when the toaster came out,
NewTek was on the show. When they do have a video show, the Amiga has
been the first platform featured. It would be nice to see somebody who
can really show what the Amiga can do on the show.
Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
I suspect "Computer Chronicles" is watched by a lot of industry insiders.
Getting on it would be worthwhile for that reason alone.
Perhaps. I don't see it that way, though.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Ben,
I hope that you reconsider your decision about Computer Chonicles(CC).
One of the computer groups here just in Huntsville pays attention to it.
They (CC,that is) seem to do a reasonable presentation. I remember seeing
the NewTek Toaster on it. Several of the features were explained and
presented. Also, they don't rely solely on their own expertise but let
the people who produce the product give the presentation.
Happy New Year!
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
Computer Chronicles is a very serious, and well respected computer industry
show. They tend to cover the AMiga very sparsly however, but their
arguement is they cover it more then its 'market share' would generally
require. I get calls from them every couple of months when they need some
info on the AMiga or multimedia/DTV topics. Personally – I'll appear on the
show anytime they ask. It's quite an honor. Lou
I am betting the reason Computer Chronicles doesn't do much with the
Amiga is the underwriters you see on the billboards on the start and
end of the show. The SPA, PC Connection and MAC Connection sponsor the
show. If there was the "Amiga Connection" paying part of the bills, I
bet there would be more Amiga coverage.
Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
That wouldn't surprise me, although the company that does the PC COnnection
also is the owner/funder of PCTV LIVE!, alive show on computers that has
had several Amiga shows over teh last year. Lou
Lou,
What topics in particular have you talked about on Computer Chromicles?
A friend of mine likes to record the shows, and I might be able to look
at a few of them.
Thanks!
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
Hmmm – the last time it was desktop video in general. Before that it was
Amigavision, and the time before that it was multitasking and games…
Those were over the last 2-3 years. Lou
I bet you were mad. It just goes to show how biased the news services
really are.
John
On the contrary, it only begins to show it.
Read Newsweek or Time lately? I'm repeatedly tempted to send Newsweek a
letter suggesting they change their name to "Opinion Week", and a similar
letter to Time suggesting they change their name to simply "Opinion".
The press has very little credibility with me. With few exceptions, when I
see something covered that I am well-versed in, I am usually treated to
unbroken streams of misinformation, opinion and innuendo.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
I saw a similar thing on the Discovery Channel's "Next Step" program. They
did this big spiel on Morphing in the movies as done on Silicon Graphics
workstations. Then they went on to show how it could be done on a personal
computer… They showed some kludgey B&W morph done on a clone. Bleah!
It's enough to make an Amiga person paranoid. :/
Jim
Meanwhile, BYTE columnist Jerry Pournelle lately has made nice noises in
his GEnie-based conference about the A4000 and CDTV units that C= sent
him. He specifically said he was impressed with the direction C= appears
to be headed. He seemed especially taken with CDTV. Maybe he'll eventually
do a nice followup to the current A4000 review.
I unpacked it and set them up for him last Tuesday. He was rather ill with
a head cold so we left it at that. The CDTV, alas, seems to not want to
respond to its remote control. It seems to be a problem with the CDTV
itself. I suppose I'll have to truck it over to Creative and see if they
can fix it.
He ADORES the CDTV. He sees great educational potential in it and also
sees it as a guerilla method of getting computers into homes. The adults
may not know it is a computer until the kids get it fleshed out with the
mouse and keyboard and floppy drive.
{@_@}
Seems the threat of a trip to the tech cleaned things up. Jerry's CDTV is
now working fine.
{@_@}