CompuServe Thread

#Fat Lady!

96 messages in this thread
#141534From: Mark D. ManesApr 29, 1994 11:47 PM
I would like to say something here before the wake begins and all the nonesense on usenet goes into full tilt. Let us try to be a bit different here. Let us try to wait until the fat lady leaves the stage before we all cry in our beer, Dr. Pepper, or what have you. I think the people on CIS are of a higher caliber and can see the positive side to all of this. I may well be wrong and it is "over". Then again, I could be right and there is some hope for the Amiga computer. So here it is. Liquidation of assets has the possibility of meaning someone picking up the technology without picking up Commodore's debt. Something that any perspective buyer would _want_ to avoid. Commodore publically stated they were over 140 million in debt, many people believe the debt to be much larger. If this is true, no one would buy Commodore with it's debt load. It just wouldn't make sense when it was clear they were a sinking ship. Doing it this way allows the 'purchaser' of the technology to get it with no debt-load. It is not quite over yet… lets try to look for the silver lining for a bit longer ok? -mark= Otto Pilot Engaged..
#141538From: Paul IdolApr 30, 1994 12:24 AM
Mark- I am deeply insulted. I, for one, would never EVER cry in my Dr. Pepper. Why, the very idea makes me sick. I demand that you apologize IMMEDIATELY. This kind of crass allegation cannot be allowed to stand in a public forum such as CIS. I don't even DRINK Dr. Pepper, and if I did I STILL wouldn't cry in it. Paul – Minus Pins!
#141559From: Mark D. ManesApr 30, 1994 2:47 AM
Hehe.. your not a pepper then? Sigh.. I am a pepper.. wouldn't you like to be a pepper too? Drink Dr. Pepper… -mark= Otto Pilot Engaged..
#141606From: Wayne SteeleApr 30, 1994 9:58 AM
I'm a pepper! And it doesn't taste any better with tears in it! 🙂
#141615From: Robert ComerApr 30, 1994 11:09 AM
Prune juice, yuch… 🙂 I'm a diet pepsi man myself… Except warm Dr. Pepper does taste pretty good on those cold days! (I don't drink coffee or tea) Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on Autopilot! Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
#142052From: Ron LegroMay 1, 1994 10:10 PM
Retreat, carbon-based life forms! — from a Mountain Dew-based life form.
#142086From: Robert ComerMay 2, 1994 12:36 AM
I've been to partake of the Dew every once in awhile myself. That is, when I need a caffeine/sugar jolt! 🙂 Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on Autopilot! Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
#142088From: Paul ToalMay 2, 1994 12:40 AM
Good taste, tastes good! Diet Pepsi here, 12 per day Today is thirteen though 🙂 –Paul < Motorola Inside >
#142278From: Paul IdolMay 2, 1994 6:11 PM
Yah, I used to shoot those down myself. Not 12, but maybe 5 or 6. <g> Lost the habit a while ago, though, and now they taste awful. Dod they change the recipe or something? Paul – Minus Pins!
#142293From: Paul ToalMay 2, 1994 6:45 PM
I thought I was going nuts with the taste change thing. Addicts like us are very sensitive to "cutting the product" 🙂 My spies in PepsiCo say they only changed the storage containers, but it only happened when federalis poked around some of the independant bottling companies. Was it done on the demand for chemical content? Or was it just coincidence? Hmmmm….. I could of swore I saw burlap sacks from Columbia 🙂 Hmmmmm….. –Paul < Motorola Inside >
#142348From: Paul IdolMay 2, 1994 10:30 PM
<BG> Paul – Minus Pins!
#142306From: Robert ComerMay 2, 1994 8:46 PM
Thta's about how much I drink of Diet Pepsi too! Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on Autopilot! Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
#142417From: John M. VreelandMay 3, 1994 12:34 AM
My Corona got warm while I was reading all the bad news. But I think I will drink it after all. -Vree in Vigina.
#141652From: Chris LesterApr 30, 1994 2:54 PM
Sorry, but when I'm down and out IBC Root Beer is the way I go! Chris – Fast and Low on my '020! Clap On! <clap clap> Clap Off! <clap cla{%& NO CARRIER
#141868From: Lu BeranekMay 1, 1994 7:22 AM
Umm what is a Dr Pepper? (I think it's drink but is it another cola?) I agree with your summing up – there's an excellent chip set and some great work which would save some company a lot of R&D. regards, Lu on AutoPilot downunder
#142049From: Ronald B. RomineMay 1, 1994 10:04 PM
LB >>Umm what is a Dr Pepper? (I think it's drink but is it another cola?)<< Urr… it is a carbonated soft drink, and it is a blackish color, but cola drinks use a mix of orange, lemon, & cinnamon as the flavor base. No one knows what is use for Dr Pepper, but there was a theory involving prunes. Ron. – ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines.)
#142067From: Tom JonesMay 1, 1994 11:24 PM
re: Dr. Pepper and prunes: anyone know the original name of the concoction that later became known as CocaCola? Answer: Carbonated Prune Juice. Good thing they changed the name. God only knows why CBM didn't call Amiga the C512, guess noone thought of it. Oklahoma City, OK
#142178From: Harry ManolopoulosMay 2, 1994 8:14 AM
And some blue smoke fromm CPU's is in it too!
#142323From: Betty Clay/SYSOPMay 2, 1994 9:27 PM
Only last week, I visited the Dr. Pepper Museum at the place where it was first made, in Waco, TX. They assured us that no part of prunes was ever used in Dr. Pepper. —Betty
#142408From: Ronald B. RomineMay 3, 1994 12:24 AM
BC >>Only last week, I visited the Dr. Pepper Museum at the place where it was first made, in Waco, TX. They assured us that no part of prunes was ever used in Dr. Pepper.<< Yes, but did they tell you want was used??? Ron. – ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines.)
#142390From: Alex BakerMay 2, 1994 11:48 PM
>> Umm what is a Dr Pepper? (I think it's drink but is it another cola?) Doctor Pepper… So misunderstood…
#142426From: Andrew CarolMay 3, 1994 12:42 AM
> Doctor Pepper… So misunderstood… While a teenager in 1980 my church youth group stayed in a beach home which had not seen much life since the early 60's. I found many old "Life" magazines from that era which had Dr Pepper ads which proudly stated that Dr Pepper was now available in stores and no longer had to be mail ordered! How times change! —- Andrew
#142680From: Chris LesterMay 3, 1994 6:44 PM
Unlike the Amiga! <G,r,&d> Chris – Fast and Low on my '020! Is it significant that my spell checker doesn't know "Quit"?
#141568From: CHARLES WILLIAMSApr 30, 1994 3:08 AM
I,m willing to wait to see the out come but how long do you think this will be. It took a couple of weeks of rumors before this came out, now how long before we find out who buys what and what will they do with it. not only do I feel sorry for the amiga users out there, especially those without a modem, but I really feel sorry for Newtek, GVP and all the other companies that put their neck on the line for the amiga. Here is a prediction- sooner or later you will see the things that we liked about the amiga being done on the ibm and macs and only we will know that it came from the amiga the rest will think it's new. but seriously how long do you think until we find out who gets what and what are their plans.
#141572From: Garry NelsonApr 30, 1994 3:32 AM
Maybe we can buy a small tactical nuke from North Korea and hope the new management at C= will put the resulting insurance money to good use….
#141574From: CHARLES WILLIAMSApr 30, 1994 3:56 AM
What's the name of that movie where the guy is riding the bomb as it was being drop from the plane…does ali like heights.
#141579From: Garry NelsonApr 30, 1994 4:55 AM
Well, if we can't get enough $upport from our fellow Amiga FANatics, we could go on the cheap and hire a disgrunted ex-mailman, who happens to be one of the few remaining Koresh clan, and tell him the Anti-christ is a top C= exec and a devout atheist with a passion for new gun control laws…
#141588From: CHARLES WILLIAMSApr 30, 1994 7:43 AM
Sorry… wouldn't work, I heard one of the top C= exec is his father.
#141661From: Tom JonesApr 30, 1994 3:13 PM
>and tell him the Anti-christ is a top C= exec and a devout atheist with a passion for new gun control laws… I KNEW it all the time, I just knew it!!! Oklahoma City, OK
#141601From: Dan BarransApr 30, 1994 9:20 AM
It was Doctor Strangelove, or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb. … or something along those lines. – dan
#141610From: Steve Bennett/SYSOPApr 30, 1994 10:28 AM
Dr. Strangelove.
#141642From: Steve ThompsonApr 30, 1994 2:03 PM
The movie was "Dr. Strangelove or how I learned to stop worring and love the bomb". The guy was Tennessee Williams, I think. Also stared the late Peter Sellers. Why am I talking about movies? I must still be in shock. My 210mg HD crashed about 9 months ago, I guess my warrinty isn't much help any more. Steve Thompson –> AutoPilot
#141677From: J Saperstein/FontBankApr 30, 1994 3:56 PM
"The guy was Tennessee Williams" Ah. No. Wrong. By a long shot. The actor riding the bomb down was Slim Pickens, one of the finest character actors to ever hit Hollywood. He was also in "Blazing Saddles", "The [original] Getaway" and a lot of other great movies where he left an indelible impression. Jerry
#141679From: Mark FreeseApr 30, 1994 4:59 PM
Steve, The actor who rode the bomb was Slim Pickins, best known for westerns. Mark A. Freese
#141834From: LEXICOR SOFTWAREMay 1, 1994 3:56 AM
Nope! wrong…it was Slim Pickins, he also thought that the survival kit would be useful in Las Vagus for a week end! and it was the CRM that self distructed… Slim liked to ware his white hat in to battle, and don't for get Sgt, BatGaunno…who respected the Coke-a-Cola company. 🙂 Lee@Radiace Softwre
#141852From: Wayne ColeMay 1, 1994 5:11 AM
The guy was Slim Pickens. Tennessee Williams is the palywright who is obsessed with wacko southern belles who think the only thing in life is getting a man, but don't have a clue how to do it… wmc – via Autopilot!
#141926From: Arnie CachelinMay 1, 1994 1:20 PM
I think the guy was Slim Pickens. Several of my favorite roles in that film were played by Sellers!
#142418From: John M. VreelandMay 3, 1994 12:34 AM
Tennesee Williams? Try Slim Pickens (slightly deader than C=). He got the part because Peter Sellers (even deader) hurt his leg and couldn't ride the bomb. -Vree in VA
#141653From: Chris LesterApr 30, 1994 2:54 PM
Many will tell you "Dr. Strangelove"… us younger pups will say "Cinemaware's SDI"! <g,r&d> Chris – Fast and Low on my '020! Clap On! <clap clap> Clap Off! <clap cla{%& NO CARRIER
#141729From: Black Belt SystemsApr 30, 1994 8:32 PM
"Dr. Strangeglove" –Ben …via AutoPilot
#141593From: Paul GerhardtApr 30, 1994 8:01 AM
Charles, >I,m willing to wait to see the out come. . . Well actually we no other choice. But then again if anyone feels like panicking and selling me their A4000 for 10 cents on the dollor I'm ready! 😉 …AutoPilot Engaged… -Paul-
#141600From: Thomas HarmonApr 30, 1994 9:13 AM
I'd take one too! Any one want to sell me one? -Tom-
#141617From: Robert ComerApr 30, 1994 11:09 AM
I'll take an A3000 or an A4000/040 myself if wnyone wants to sell it cheap! Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on Autopilot! Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
#141624From: CHARLES WILLIAMSApr 30, 1994 1:00 PM
I second that! anyone wishing to sell their A3000 or A4000 at a cheap price come on with it. If prices start dropping on hardware & software this could turn out to be a good thing. What a vulture I am.
#141643From: Garry NelsonApr 30, 1994 2:27 PM
Here's an idea – maybe we could all visit the NewTek area of the Amigavendor forum and barrage them with requests to buy, at a minimum, C='s tech copywrites. Logic would tend to indicate that they are probably already considering this, yes? Also, is anyone out their planning a 12-step program (for worst- case senarios, like no more Amiga technology EVER). Some people are starting to show signs of depression, artificial elation and denial. I'm kind of into the denial thing right now (maybe Biill Gates will buy Amiga from C= and put all peecee profits into Amiga R&D and build us all neat Amiga 6000s – but it can't just stop NOW! IT CAN'T!)
#141698From: Thomas HarmonApr 30, 1994 6:59 PM
What Liquidation? What are you guys talking about? <G> -Tom-
#141723From: Garry NelsonApr 30, 1994 8:12 PM
We all got really p*ssed at C= execs and liquidated them in a huge vat of acid (g). Seriously, you must know by now. –> have a hanky ready and look around if not.
#142053From: Ron LegroMay 1, 1994 10:10 PM
Quick! Call in Stuart Smalley! "Commodore is dead…but…that's…okay!"
#141674From: Robert ComerApr 30, 1994 3:51 PM
I guess I'm a Vulture too… Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on Autopilot! Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
#141662From: Tom JonesApr 30, 1994 3:13 PM
>I'll take an A3000 or an A4000/040 myself if wnyone wants to sell it cheap! Put me on that list too, I'll take anyone's 3000T or 4000/40 just call me. Guess the liquidators will be selling them for next to nothing eventually anyway though, so it doesn't matter I'll scarf up one then. I suggest the 4000 with an Emplant and Jim's 68060 multi processor board is a way to go for anyone wanting to stay in Amigas a while longer. I hope to see it. Tom Oklahoma City, OK
#141693From: Paul IdolApr 30, 1994 6:19 PM
Just add a good graphics card and you've got a dream machine for a couple years! Paul – Minus Pins!
#141724From: Garry NelsonApr 30, 1994 8:14 PM
Oh, yeah, right – NOW that the company is out of business EVERYBODY wants to buy an Amiga… I think some of C='s business sense has worn off on us, guys.
#141688From: Dan RoeslerApr 30, 1994 6:16 PM
Well, we could always hope that Newtek buys it up. It would be in their best interests, after all. There is some poetic justice to this situation. Centaur FINALLY released the video processor module just in time for Commodore to go belly up! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Kinda makes up for all those months of waiting, doesn't it? Hmmm, wonder if there will be a price drop on those modules… 🙂
#141854From: Wayne ColeMay 1, 1994 5:11 AM
>>Well, we could always hope that Newtek buys it up. It would be in their >>best interests, after all. I don't think that is correct. I'll admit it depends somewhat on the price, but NewTek has no means to produce the chips, board, cases etc to manufacture complete machines. Their assessment will lead them to either: Sell NewTek to a Sony/JVC/Panasonic as a video do-dad company OR Use the money to move to a different platform. wmc – via Autopilot!
#141576From: John GagerApr 30, 1994 4:00 AM
She might not be singing yet, but she sure has been writing the song. I haven't given up hope, and would like to see a white knight come along to save the poor Amiga, but we will just have to wait and see if this faery tale will come true. Even if not, I figure my 4000 has a couple of good years left in her. By then, we should know how the Power PC will do as an alternative platform. // John (Speeding on the Information Superhighway) \X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
#141654From: Chris LesterApr 30, 1994 2:54 PM
No, I'd definately say the Fat Lady has sung. Whether she has an encore or not remains to be seen. (Maybe a sequel or two as well!) Chris – Fast and Low on my '020! Clap On! <clap clap> Clap Off! <clap cla{%& NO CARRIER
#141694From: Dan RoeslerApr 30, 1994 6:20 PM
REMEMBER CHRYSLER CORP! (Hey, I can dream, can't I?) By the way, put me down for one of those 4000's! What's going to happen to AmigaWorld mag?
#141703From: Richard EricksonApr 30, 1994 7:35 PM
I asked Amigaworld just what they would do: >You can rest assured that AmigaWorld will continue to be publish >and will support the Amiga market well into the future. Commodore's >financial problems will have little impact on AmigaWorld, since >we've traditionally relied on 3rd party developers, not Commodore, > for most of the magazine's content. >Thank you for your interest in AmigaWorld and your support. >Tim Walsh, Senior Editor Richard -> AutoPilot on the A1000
#141722From: Chris LesterApr 30, 1994 8:09 PM
Well, piece of good news number 1. Anyone shooting for number 2? Chris – Fast and Low on my '020! Clap On! <clap clap> Clap Off! <clap cla{%& NO CARRIER
#141856From: Wayne ColeMay 1, 1994 5:11 AM
Chris, That's bad news. You don't know how to read publobabble. There won't be any third party developers of note by the end of the year left doing anything other than bug fix updates and many will be gone to other platforms by then. All that AmigWorld statement did is get AW off the hook and 3rd party developer on the hook for AW's operations cease when it comes (I predict no later than March, next year). wmc – via Autopilot!
#141915From: Steve SetzerMay 1, 1994 12:21 PM
Wayne, you are such a pessimist. You seem to get some perverse pleasure out of shooting anyone down with any type of optimism. Is your amiga any less usable today than it was last week? Sure spare parts will dry up sooner or later, so will 3rd party vendors. But why panic now…hell it hasn't even been decided(publicly) what will become of all the assets of CEI. While I doubt therewill ever be any new amigas, it doesn't make the current crop useless. As far as AmigaWorld and Amazing computing, look at Run magazine, it lasted at least a decade after the demise of PET and C64's. The amigas in the world are a force that is doing some unique work RIGHT NOW, that has not changed and until some other platform can offer what the Amiga can at the same price range the used and aftermarket still has some blosseming to do. Do you think Seaquest and Babylon 5 are going off the air this week? They have need for faster, more powerful amigas, can they change their production over to Macs or Indys in the next month, I don't think so. If Jim Drew still decides to release his multi 060 board, I think he will sell oddles of them regardles of wether C= is alive or dead. I think over the next few months we will see a whole bunch of new exciting peripherals for the amiga, as companys rush their current development project to market, that will increase its productivity manyfold. Sure the liqudation is bad news but it is not the end of the Amigas use. I have canceled my plans to buy a 4000 or 4000T, but my souped up 2000 will provide for me all the tools I need (with the help of the aftermarket for at least a couple of years. And still be FUN to use. Let's just wait a little while before we bury the machine and see what happens. <getting off soapbox> …Steve ====>>> Motorola 68030 Inside <<<====
#142019From: Stephen BaileyMay 1, 1994 8:38 PM
You, and I, will need to hunt down a A3000/4000 in order to use the proposed UU mutli 060 card. Stephen Bailey Sawyer & Bailey Film & Video CIS # 72773,2451
#142203From: Steve SetzerMay 2, 1994 11:37 AM
Stephen, from what Jim says the multi 060 card will not physical fit in a 3000, but he did not say about a 3000T! …Steve ====>>> Motorola 68030 Inside <<<====
#142356From: Donovan WattsMay 2, 1994 10:42 PM
I thought he said it would not fit in a 3000 as a CPU slot card. That is why he made it a Zorro card. Am I incorrect? ..DonovaN
#142375From: john bennettMay 2, 1994 11:32 PM
I think Jim said that the 060 board wouldn't fit in the processor slot of an A3000. It's supposed to be a Zoro III card, and I think those slots are the same on all 3000's and 4000's. If this board comes to market I'll be up grading from my current souped up A2000 also. I think most of the other platform guys don't realize, I don't want to have to buy another computer twice a year just to stay on the cutting edge. But I do want to be on the cutting edge :^) ….John
#142522From: Steve SetzerMay 3, 1994 9:00 AM
John, >>I think most of the other platform guys don't realize, I don't want to >>have to buy another computer twice a year just to stay on the cutting >>edge. But I do want to be on the cutting edge :^) I have had my 030 2000 for 6 long years and it still amazes my Dos friends with the speed of screen updates, and general computing abilities. I actually had a friend a few months ago that bought a 50 mhz 486/windoz/SVGA ect ect. that heard I was a computer nut come over for some help and general intructions, after me putting the Amy through it's paces he made the remark about him buying outdated technology! …Steve CBM: The end of an era (or is that error?)
#142098From: Roy PahnkeMay 2, 1994 1:30 AM
Steve – I agree 100%, was just about to say somethin' to Wayne, but you steped in nicely. Wayne will probably try to cut ya down just like he has everything and everyone else around here. This is the only subject the fellow has be negative on. OnLine since 1982 Roy Pahnke – Casper WY
#142111From: Wayne ColeMay 2, 1994 2:04 AM
>>Is your amiga any less usable today than it was last week? Absolutely. My Amigas are what my business is based on. A platform that is dead-ended cannot grow with the business. And, as an asset for assessing the value of the company, those Amigas just became nearly worthless, so that part of the business plan that details the equipment trurn-over and upgrade now has to be reworked from the perspective that there will be no income from sale of Amigas when equipement upgrade is planned. Additionally, several products that I had been tangentially involve in that were planned to show up in QTR4 this year, and were developed with the "power/professional user" in mind will probably be scrapped. So the professional value and utility of the machine has definityl been degraded. As a hobbyist machine, it won't degrade until it breaks. But that is not my use for it. My hobby machine has wings and a prop… As for the magazines, aren't you forgetting the relative size of the c64/pet user base as compared to the Amiga user base? I think you better revisit the numbers and start thinking like a business person who has to profit from the Amiga instead of use it. Now, in that head and considering the nmumbers, how much longer do you suppose there is a decent profit/effor ratio in the Amiga? And remember, proefessional users need support, near real-time. You won't get that from garage/afte day job developers. So who is left to spend money on Amiga applications? All those 500 owners still running 1.2 and 1.3? And as for Amblin, etc. They don't need the Amiga. They need lightwave. They have the Raptor, screamernet and I'd be willing to bet Mr. Hastings has already prototyped some non-Amiga based Lightwave for just this reason. wmc – via Autopilot!
#142129From: CHARLES WILLIAMSMay 2, 1994 2:51 AM
OOOHH YEAAA! well if it was up to you seaquest would have been canceled and charlton heston and roy scheider would have been banging on your door….heston would probably have a flashback and you'd be like that guy who the horses ran over.
#142280From: Paul IdolMay 2, 1994 6:11 PM
Oh bull, he wasn't talking about BEFORE the Amiga was dead-ended – and if you haven't noticed his business is at least partly Amiga based. Paul – Minus Pins!
#142204From: Steve SetzerMay 2, 1994 11:37 AM
Wayne, You are telling me that there are things you can not do now that you could do last week? You'll have to prove that to me. The demise of C= will cause imedeate constermation among people who SELL the amiga. But the vast majarity of Amiga owners use the amiga for profits other than selling them, THEY USE THEM, and will continue to use them. Please get off this negativity. What good is it doing? Sure it is Bad news, everyone knows this but we don't need you rubbing it in. This is not intended as a flame, but I'm sick and d#$% tired of all this doom and gloom. I have a brain and I know full well what the consequences may be of this liquidation. Let just wait and see. 4-5 months from now we should all know where we stand. <G> …Steve ====>>> Motorola 68030 Inside <<<====
#142281From: Paul IdolMay 2, 1994 6:11 PM
Steve- If you'd read Wayne's post you wouldn't have written what you did. He did not talk about current capabilities, he talked about FUTURE growth, migration patterns, and depreciation. All legitimate concerns. Furthermore, he has a right to think and say what he wishes. And finally, this forum is filled with optimism, people saying Amigas are still perfectly good – true in very many ways – saying that it will be picked up, etc. There's nothing wrong with a little balance. You act as though Wayne would somehow be =HAPPY= if everything really went to hell. I -know- I speak for him, as well as pretty much evryone out there, myself and you included, when I say this is not true. Paul – Minus Pins!
#142374From: Steve SetzerMay 2, 1994 11:29 PM
Paul, Wayne was assuming the Amiga is a dead end. I disagree with that viewpoint at this point in time (6 months from now I may change my tune). Look at all the new exciting product announcements in the last 60 days, and rumor of more in the pipeline! Sure if you make your living selling the Amiga, your in hot water right now, but the vast majority of us can bide our time for a couple of months before we leap to another platform and declare the amiga a waste of money. With all the rumors flying and very few facts I see little point in all the negativity. He has every right to express his viewpoints (as do I). I have no delusions as to the possible future of the Amiga, but will remain as optomistic as I can. I have cancelled my decision to purchase a 4000 for the time being but that doesn't mean I am going run out and buy a powerMac instead. Wayne has been a long time member of CIS and I respect his opinion on a number of topics discussed here in the last few years, but anybody can predict doom and gloom and frankly I'm tired of hearing it. …Steve CBM: The end of an era (or is that error?)
#142399From: Wayne ColeMay 3, 1994 12:07 AM
Gee, this sounds like the same lecture I got when I mentioned in January that C= would probably be out of business by the end of the year…. You don't have a good feel for business either. A good business person is always operating 5-6 months ahead of the calendar. That means dealing heavily in potential in order to have a strategy and be able to follow it fairly closely. Many times the potential promised for 5-6 months out can be utilized more fully if certain arrangements get made in the present. When the potential is cut off as it has been here (AAA, DSP, 3.x/4.x, RISC, etc etc) then money spent to day to prepare for that event is wasted. Time spent is wasted. And because some useful equipment/device/program was not aqcuired as part of the sacrifce to prepare for even greater potential down the road, today your machine is in effect less useable with no compensating pay-off downstream. And the fact the corrective action (selling some items to 'reconfigure') is now ALSO a lesser options exist (for some items, the market has just become Amiga hold outs, not the public in general who might otherwise have been convinced that an Amiga could be a good long term path…) The overall value functionally, monitarily and potentially took a mjor nose dive Friday afternoon. For home users, or businesses that have no plan and only think about the minute, well, theres no rush as long as the machine does not break. Remember, my entire set of messages addresses the BUSINESS user whose concrete (preferably written) plan calls for growth and who had committed to try to make it (against a lot of advice from others including former Amiga users) using the Amiga as the cornerstone of a business. Many of my cusotmers were hard sells becuase they have to accept stuff in vairous forms from me. Not one has an Amiga. Convincing them that was not a problem was not easy. Now that C= bellied up, that sell is going to be no easier. Also, having to maintian compatibility with their platform formats will now be much harder since the companies that are teh main format converters also do PC/MAC/SGI/Unix products. When push comes to shove, do you thing any of these devleopers is going to forgo/stall a release on any of these other platforms to do an Amiga version? I doubt it. That will be something that is done 'time permitting'. And at the rate the other platforms are diving into video, time permits less and less. wmc – via Autopilot!
#142476From: Brian BartlettMay 3, 1994 4:10 AM
Wayne, in that respect, you're right on the mark, although I must question you having only a six month business plan. You should consider adding longer timelines, if possible. The Four Seasons of Southern California: Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
#142523From: Steve SetzerMay 3, 1994 9:00 AM
Wayne, I agree with 98% of what you have said. The big point that I am trying to make is: for most of us the Amiga is not the cornerstone of our business, it is a tool we use in order to conduct our business more professionally. I may be a little different than most, I definetly depend on my amiga for work, but it is not video or animation based, it is just general computing stuff, my most used program is superbase, a word prcessor ect. I do PLAY with the graphics, sound and animation. And that is fun. For me the entire Amiga market could evaporate off the face of the earth and I would still be productively using my machine until it broke. I DO depend on it to do the job it does though and it is not a hobby. Your posts (as well as John Foust's) come across as excessively negative, and it takes no imagination to run around and declare the sky is falling. All the facts are not in yet, much of what has been said (even by people who should be in the know) are rumors and guesses as to what is going on. From the few facts that have presented themselves I do BELIEVE something fishy is going with Commodore International, and we may not see the end of the Amiga yet. BUT I am prepared for the worst and will make my plans accordingly as the smoke clears and the dust settles. Just don't start shoveling dirt on the Amiga yet. …Steve CBM: The end of an era (or is that error?)
#142279From: Paul IdolMay 2, 1994 6:11 PM
Finally someone with a head on their shoulders. Paul – Minus Pins!
#142389From: Alex BakerMay 2, 1994 11:48 PM
Softlogic claims that they will be doing real development till the profits die. According to them, their Atari market is far worse off than the Amiga, and the Atari is still in production. (If you can call their sales levels production.) Most likely, after the current pipeline stuff is released, the new releases will be ports where original development costs will be borne by other machines.
#141715From: Chris LesterApr 30, 1994 7:57 PM
Well, if next month's copy show up, and it has subscription cards as well, it may hang around for awhile… but it's demise would also be inevitable. Chris – Fast and Low on my '020! Clap On! <clap clap> Clap Off! <clap cla{%& NO CARRIER
#141734From: Grant BoucherApr 30, 1994 8:36 PM
A government bail-out…now THAT'S what we need… The AmigaWorld newsletter?
#141794From: John GagerApr 30, 1994 11:38 PM
Chrysler's "White Knight" was the US Government and Lee Iacocca (sp?). I don't think we can expect them to help out our poor Amiga. As far as AmigaWorld, I imagine they will stay in it as long as the magazine is making a profit. How long that will be is anyone's guess. // John (Speeding on the Information Superhighway) \X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
#141855From: Wayne ColeMay 1, 1994 5:11 AM
Chrysler didn't liquidate, they made things vital to the government (engines for battle tanks, light tanks, and aricraft) were an American corporation and got governemt loans. They also did not declare liquidation (which is even worse the a bankruptcy under Chapter 11 that I don't believe Chrysler ever did) and thier impact on unemployment would have been considerable. There is not one shred of similarity to the C= situation. wmc – via Autopilot!
#141887From: Steve Bennett/SYSOPMay 1, 1994 9:25 AM
Chrysler is also a US company. CIL/CEL are incorporated in the Bahamas.
#142788From: Dan RoeslerMay 3, 1994 11:17 PM
Lighten up, Wayne. It was a joke… Folks, life will go on.
#142920From: Wayne ColeMay 4, 1994 4:01 AM
I don't remember what I said, or to what, but there are not scorch marks here so whatever it was it wasn't a flame… wmc – via Autopilot!
#142054From: Ron LegroMay 1, 1994 10:10 PM
>…Power PC as an alternative platform… Boy, I like the way you think. 🙂
#141616From: Robert ComerApr 30, 1994 11:09 AM
I seriously hope that it isn't over! However, I'm pretty depressed about the whole thing… Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on Autopilot! Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
#141681From: Alex BakerApr 30, 1994 5:33 PM
I would like to share the hope along with you, but lets look at all of the story. One of the reasons C= is dead, is because they couldn't manage to sell the Amiga. While we all know the Amiga is a great machine, and has the potential to be a fantastic machine, would a party picking up a machine from a dying company give the public any more confidence in it? It would also have to be a pretty good sized company, to even try to manufacture and market the computer. How would they interest developers, beyond the ones whose products are already available, and weren't enough to keep us afloat? additionally, the market is getting tighter. With the release of Pentium, and the Power PC chips, I think C= knew the writing was on the wall. If anything gets salvaged, it might be the game system, or the graphics chip technology. Even then it is likely to be for a dedicated video workstation, or game only machine. If C= had simply gotten in trouble due to bad investments, it would be one thing, but I can't see an Amiga produced by somebody else getting any more respect by the media, and developers, than it did while owened by C=. Then again who would be willing to step in? Most companies with any real interest in fielding a computer, are already selling computers. Sony gets mentioned from time to time. But do the really want to buck the trend? I fear the future is Windoze and Bill Gates…. Computing used to be so much fun….. <Sigh>
#141726From: Garry NelsonApr 30, 1994 8:19 PM
One positive aspect of your argument is that BECAUSE no one is really interested (I think some may think otherwise), there will be fewer bidders when C= is taken to the chopping block. Fewer bidders means lower auction prices, right? Thereby greatly increasiing the chances that a 'friendly' organization with an interest in continuing the Amiga line could acquire the necessary patents/copyrights/equipment.
#141857From: Wayne ColeMay 1, 1994 5:11 AM
I don't think so. If the company could have been aquired in tact without the debt at such high levels, AND the AAA was done, included 24 bit basic display modes, 16 bit stereo audio, full mem protected mutli-tasking, and the move to RISC was through prototype, then it might have been an attractive propostion to build on the existing nich market and "be there" in the midst of the ever-quickenin DTV/MM revolution. However, none of that stuff was imminent, just waiting for financing to go to production, the company has been dissassembled arlready, has virtually no developer support in real-world terms and an existing technology which at this stage in its life is rather ho-hum. The only possible part of the technolgy I see anyone being interested in is CD32 and possibley only Phllips would be interested from the view of insuring a competitor stays dead. wmc – via Autopilot!
#141888From: Steve Bennett/SYSOPMay 1, 1994 9:25 AM
>>…only Phllips would be interested…<< I doubt it. He's busy cutting vinyl signs with his Amiga. Philips probably isn't interested either. CBM/UK, CBM/CANADA, however, might be.
#141899From: Troy BarlowMay 1, 1994 10:35 AM
Heheheehe Damn, and all this time I thought Larry would fix things for us :^)
#141689From: Marlene Zenker/SYSOPApr 30, 1994 6:18 PM
Geeze, Mark, I'm still waiting for Commodore to release that automatic phone answering device they announced for the 1000! Can't get more optimistic than that! 😉
#141823From: Brian BartlettMay 1, 1994 3:05 AM
Mark, sacrilege! Adding impure liquids to beer?!!! Never! However, you are quite correct. We'll have to wait and see who/what/where the resources go after the liquidation. The Four Seasons of Southern California: Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
#141851From: Wayne ColeMay 1, 1994 5:11 AM
Mark, You are looking at this as an interested, partial observer. Now look at it from and impersonal "is there a way to make money" perspective of a potential buyer. What were the only remaining assets? The knowledge base. That is in the heads of the technical guys and gals, and the CATs people. C= was very good about dismantling the tech devlopement and support function FIRST. It does no good to buy technology with very limited market window, (as is all computer tech) when you have spend a year figuring out just how to use/build/advance the stuff. Add to that the apparent very limitee appeal of the technology, and you'd never convince CFO, BOD, stockholders in your corp that this was a low risk, high profit potential for your company. The Amiga is dead. No amount of goodwill can change that. Only millions of dollars can, and it is a bad investment that no one with that kind of money will be crazy enough to make. So let it go and enjoy finding out about the Windows/NT/Mac/PPC whatever Scala fallback the guys in R&D have been secretly playing with over the next few weeks. wmc – via Autopilot!
#141864From: Trent HawkinsMay 1, 1994 5:51 AM
You know Mark, you may have something here. When Amiga is mentioned people usually go, "So who makes that?" When Commodore is mentioned they usually get that pity look in thier eyes and a snicker behind our back. No one knows about the Amy, so why could it not be passed of as a new platform to the generally uninformed public from someone other than C=. Trent "If in doubt, empty the magazine"