#MeshPaint NT IPAS
35 messages in this thread
Hello,
I just wanted to post a message confirming the future availablity of MeshPaint
3D for 3D Studio Release 5. We have had quite a few questions about it, and
decided to formulate a policy.
If you have any questions, leave me mail, or call us at Positron. 402-493-6280.
The most important thing is to send in your registration cards so that we can
notify you when the time comes.
Thanks.
Brent
Well, sure, I want to know that Meshpaint, Bones Pro, LensFX and MeteReyes will
ALL be available for R5 (because if even _one_ isn't, I ain't upgrading!).
I also want to know that I won't have to spend a thousand dollars just to
upgrade all my routines. I mean, I would expect a reasonable conversion
charge, but unless a lot more functionality was added it just doesn't make
sense to have spend a lot more just to do the same thing I can do now.
>Well, sure, I want to know that Meshpaint, Bones Pro, LensFX and >MeteReyes
will ALL be available for R5 (because if even _one_ isn't, I >ain't
upgrading!).
>
>I also want to know that I won't have to spend a thousand dollars just to
>upgrade all my routines. I mean, I would expect a reasonable >conversion
charge, but unless a lot more functionality was added it just >doesn't make
sense to have spend a lot more just to do the same thing I >can do now.
I have a felling that a lot of people are going to have to keep a copy of 3DS
4, for quite a while after we upgrade to ver. 5, just so we can still have
access to all of our IPAS ( Some of which may not upgrade right away, if at
all)
Bye
DC
>ot of people are going to have to keep a copy of 3DS 4
The only thing wrong with that scenerio is that it means you'll have to have a
dual boot sequence, something I definitely will NOT do if I change over to NT.
I mean, the only reason I'll go to NT is for 3DS, and if my IPASs ain't there,
I ain't gonna be there, either.
FWIW.
>The only thing wrong with that scenario is that it means you'll have to >have
a dual boot sequence, something I definitely will NOT do if I change >over to
NT
What's wrong with a dual boot seq? NT senses if you have Win/Dos installed and
can be set up to give you a choice at start up.
>the only reason I'll go to NT is for 3DS,
It may be the reason you go to NT, but once you're there you'll find a lot of
other reasons to use it. Elastic Reality, Photoshop, WinImages Fx, Real3D,
Perception Video Recorder etc. All will either work in NT or have NT versions
available. Native NT software is very fast. There will also be more and more
great tools and software available for NT by the time 3DS 5 comes out.
>and if my IPASs ain't there, I ain't gonna be there, either.
Things don't happen all at once, I don't know about you, but even if the
upgrade price is very reasonable, I probably wont get all the IPAS upgrades at
the same time. (unless they're free)
Also I'm sure the venders wont get NT versions out on the same day. Some IPAS
will take longer than others to rewrite.
I think it will take some time before most of us have every IPAS in NT that we
have in DOS. Also as far as the dual boot goes, I don't know about you, but 3DS
isn't the only program I have, and some of them wont work at all in NT ,and
others are designed for Win 3.1. Many Win 3.1 programs are substantially slower
in NT than in WFWG 3.11 (which is now the fastest windows, except for native NT
apps)
Byebye
David
>but once you're there you'll find a lot of other reasons to use it. Elastic
Reality, >Photoshop, WinImages Fx, Real3D, Perception Video Recorder etc. All
will either >work in NT or have NT versions available
First of all, let me make it clear that I was simply responding to Brent's
request for feedback about IPAS migration for R5 — I was telling him (and
still am) that I will NOT move to R5 until and unless my favorite IPAS routines
are there (or that functionality is built into R5 — but fat chance of that!).
I want my favorite IPAS developers to know how important this is to me (and
hopefully, others). But, on the subject, I am NOT going to go to NT except for
R5. I have a dual boot sequence now (actually, given the network, I have a
quadruple boot sequence, but that's another story). I just don't see a big
advantage in changing operating systems (always a major hassle no matter what
anyone says) unless I end up with a completely integrated environment.
I already have Elastic Reality and PhotoShop, and thus not being in NT doesn't
penalize me any. Okay, so maybe the 32bit versions really kick butt, but they
don't add ANY more functionality, and changing operation systems etc. etc.
(Right now I have hardware/software that definitely does NOT work in NT, and it
will cost me many thousands not to be able to use this stuff — I have to have
a very compelling reason to switch and R5 in and of itself — without the IPAS
that make it live and breathe — ain't gonna be it).
IMHO.
Mike
Whoa boy…….. this is a friendly discussion, not a war <g>
Of course everyone (we hope) really wants to have all their IPAS stuff for the
great changeover, but let's face facts….it wont all happen at once. In some
cases, as with some of the better share/free ware, it may not happen at all.
Just about everyone I speak to or hear from says that NT is a fantastic
operating system, far more stable than Win 3.11, and even if win95 is 50% more
stable than the beta I worked on, it still has a way to go. Most of the
magazine writers that seem to know what they're talking about , say that Win95
will be for the average user, and NT will be for the power user. ( with NT
server going to the super power user). Yes, you are right, there are many
programs that will not run on NT. That's why a dual (or in your case a
…quint.. ….((is that right?)) boot up will be the only real choice. You cay
that some of your apps "will kick butt" on NT . Yes they will, so why on earth
would you hesitate to get it? I don't know about you, but I'd prefer to cut
down the wait period for Elastic Reality and Transjammer renders if I could.
And the chance to speed up Photoshop filters by 40 -70% ( I think that's what I
read) is a chance worth taking.
It seems from the tone of your post that you're a bit scared… I am too. But
anyone involved in this wonderful world of late twentieth century computing
should always try to stay at the forefront of technology. Yes there are going
to be a few (or a lot) of painful transitions, but that is price worth paying.
I've decided to get a copy of NT as soon as I can. I know there are going to
be some problems but the are also going to be payoffs.
As far as IPAS upgrades go, it is a very important issue. All of us must
contact every IPAS developer and distributor and let them know that a "painless
as possible" transition to NT is requirement for our continued support. If it
is handled correctly, I think a message like that could really have an impact.
Also, it appears from his posts, that Gary Yost is trying to get the "Painless
change" word out too. That's the kind of support we need to make it work.
one question…Does WinCIM work with NT? <g>
See ya
DC
Hi David,
<< one question…Does WinCIM work with NT? <g>>>
yes.
>yes.
Great
DC
I wouldn't worry too much. We are still 8 months away from a release, I was
told that Autodesk is sponsering an IPAS developer conference at the end of
June to give the skinny of the plan to migrate over. I figure the ride won't be
too bumpy. I hope…
Hi Tim,
<< I was told that Autodesk is sponsering an IPAS developer conference at the
end of June to give the skinny of the plan to migrate over. >>
..sponcering a developer conference at the end of June..
I hope to post a notice about this soon..
I read somewhere that there is some version of Phar Lap which if you compile
your code with it, will allow NT written code to run under DOS. I am not sure
of all the details of this – but apparently there is a Phar Lap solution to NT
code.
If this is true I would certainly hope that Autodesk and the Yost group also
provide this Phar Lap version of 3DS5 which will run under our regular DOS.
Judy
I've heard of a version of PharLap that will let you produce executables that
function under DOS or Windows, but I hadn't heard of a permutation that lets NT
code run under DOS. Could be! It must have several limitations, if it exists.
The "Windows under DOS" technology I spoke of lets you make "DLLs" that work
under DOS or Windows, but it doesn't emulate all of Windows under DOS.
John –
I think that we are talking about the same thing. I know it doesn't emulate all
of NT, but will allow the executables to run under DOS – this should somehow
allow r5 code to run under DOS – I would think.
Also I read that IBM has the rights to support NT via OS/2 – but have not
exercised that right since there has been no push for it. IBM said if enough
customers want then they will do it – other wise no.
Judy
>>It must have several limitations.
"Several" is an understatement. We're going straight NT all the way. (I never
want to see a line of Phar Lap code again as long as I live.)
– G
After fighting Intel segments for years, I had an epiphany after reading an
article in Dr Dobbs a few years ago. It was by Brett Glass, an all-around
smart guy and former Amiga-head. He pointed out that segments aren't a bad
concept – the problem was, the Intel CPUs didn't have enough selectors and the
segment size was too large to be really useful. With zillions of selectors and
tiny segments, we'd have great memory protection.
Just thought I'd let you know (not that it really matters, but what the hey )
I'm so happy about your decision to go to NT, that I went out and got a copy
now.
Thats it
Bye
DC
Bravo! I am dying to throw DOS away forever! 🙂
ana /krazy images
Gary,
<< I never want to see a line of Phar Lap code again as long as I live >>
Please don't forget about NT's ridiculous RAM requirments… I still would
like to see a DOS rendering engine for machines with not enough RAM to run 3DS
and NT. And if you can't do that how about a 2nd NT compiled 3ds.exe with just
rendering code in it to save memory.
Mark
>>>Please don't forget about NT's ridiculous RAM requirments…<<<
I used to think NT used to much RAM, especially compared to OS/2 and Win95.
Those two claim to work in 4MB RAM. I say 8MB allows the OS to breath, you need
16MB to get anything done. NT is similar to unix, 32MB is what you really need.
Tim,
<< I used to think NT used to much RAM, especially compared to OS/2 and Win95.
Those two claim to work in 4MB RAM. I say 8MB allows the OS to breath, you need
16MB to get anything done. NT is similar to unix, 32MB is what you really need.
>>
You should re-read my whole message. I have no problems at all with adding an
additional 16mb of RAM to my 3DS workstation. Because I do believe that r5
will be a killer release.
But what I (and I'm sure other people do) have a problem with is adding an
additional 16mb of RAM to rendering slaves. And I said to Gary that it would
be nice to have a r5 rendering slave engine for DOS.
Mark
>>Please don't forget about NT's ridiculous RAM requirments…
I don't ever forget. The NT performance monitor is always coldly (and cruelly)
staring at me in the face.
– G
even if this were possible, I am sure you would be losing so much in the
process, that it would be pointless to even bother. NT can do a lot of stuff
DOS can't.
But the other solution would allow all your IPAS routines to run without the
HUGE FINANCIAL outlay for upgrades! Big consideration here!
Judy
Judy, I have seen absolutely NO evidence presented by ANYONE involved with this
business implying that upgrading IPAS Plug-Ins to r5 compatibility will
constitute a HUGE FINANCIAL outlay.
On the contrary, there have been reports of the opposite, including a
two-tiered program where the first upgrade would be a nominally priced simple
port, and the second a full-blown re-write to take advantage of NT's huge leap
in capabilities over DOS.
If you have facts to support your HUGE FINANCIAL OUTLAY claim, please enlighten
me, as I'd like to be aware of any new developments in this area.
Thanks,
-Alan
Alan –
My HUGE financial outlay my be small change to you! However, when a product
switches over to another operating system – the upgrade costs are often not
neglible. Read the prices lists for various "swtichovers"
Judy
>> allow all your IPAS routines to run without the HUGE FINANCIAL outlay
>> for upgrades!
From what we've seen posted here by IPAS developers, they will make the
migration as painless as possible. I personally suspect that you will spend
more money fine tuning your computer than buying software upgrades. When all
is said and done, you will find yourself with a rock solid high performance 3D
animation system.
– Dave
>> you will find yourself with a rock solid high performance 3D animation
system. <<
YES!!! And the prospect is really exciting! Especially as the time and expense
is relatively small compared to the alternatives to achieve that level of
performance.
John
What do you consider a huge finacial outlay? I own quite a few IPAS routines,
and even then, I don't see any of them charging high upgrade prices when the
time comes. I figure 50-100 bucks. For me, that comes to less than a thousand.
Not exactly comfy, but not HUGE, either.
I would consider 50-100 bucks large – especially when spread through a whole
bunch of IPAS. To say nothing about some of those that might not bother with
conversion.
Judy
Well, I am not made of money, but for a 300 dollar disk, 50 dollars to upgrade
doesn't sound all that unreasonable. Granted, I'd rather pay 25 bucks for each
of my disks to upgrade, but it is going to take a fair amount of labor to take
advantage of what NT and (presumably) R5 will offer.
I find strange to say this, but for sure, Judy got a solid point here. Some
people in ASOFT (including me) forget that there are users with limited (and I
mean limited) budgets. I hope that there will be free upgrades (pay the
shipping only) of all the IPAS, as soon as the new NT versions of the IPAS
doesn't include any new features that will make them worthy of extra cost. And
even then, I hope that they will keep offering NT versions of existing IPAS
routines for free, no matter what new versions they will come out with next.
However, that's a hope and developers have the right to drop a product whenever
they want. In the other side, some developers will loose some costumers if they
decide to do that.
Since most IPAS on the market are unique to some developers, costumers are on
their hands (BTW, is it my personal perception, my faulty memory or there isn't
really too much competition in IPAS development out there?)
Anyway, I am sure that IPAS developers will be giving away NT ports as soon as
r5 becomes available. That will pay them later, when they offer their new
versions 🙂 Alan alreday has pointed out this in a reply.
ana /krazy images
>> I hope that there will be free upgrades (pay the shipping only)
>> of all the IPAS, as soon as the new NT versions…
If one provider of IPAS (PLUGINs) can be believed, that would cost almost
nothing since they sold very very few. Far below break even, even at the
"high" price that they charged. He is local and spoke at our user meeting (and
I have not seen him since then).
So *IF* he is still in that business (and he was NOT optimistic), there would
NOT be a lot of lost business if NO upgrade were offered.
Struck me as a paradoozy, or
"50,000 sales for Autodesk, and not a drop for adders" <g>.
<< I just wanted to post a message confirming the future availablity of
MeshPaint 3D for 3D Studio Release 5. >>
Cool Brent! Do you know yet if it will support OpenGl?
Mark
Mark,
I'm not the right one to ask about that. We'll know more in the next couple of
months as Autodesk fills the developers in on the progress.
Brent