#NT………..Hmmmm.
44 messages in this thread
Because of the direction that 3D Studio is headed, I think we should have a
place on this forum for Windows NT questions.
I just got NT so I would be very comfortable with it by the time 3DS 5 comes
out.
The setup was a real PAIN IN THE BEHIND. But I finally got it running. (This
call to C$ is the first thing I'm doing with it 🙂 )
Anyway, I tried to get help on the WIN-NT forum, and no one even answered. I
had to try to figure out the solution myself based on previous NT forum
messages ( Microsoft has discontinued free Win NT installation tech. support,
it's only available for $150 "per incedent"
unless you count thier anemic "fax back service" both faxes that I requested
arrived corrupted. (not a problem when other people send me faxes)
As for the setup, If you have more than 2 IDE (or EIDE) drives ( I have an
INTEL PLATO motherboard, it has an IDE and an EIDE controller built in, I had
(yeah….. HAD) 1 EIDE on one controller, and 2 IDE's on the other. I had to
lose the second IDE drive and place the first IDE on the same controller as the
EIDE) In the NT install manual it says that I should "see my tech. support
represntitive" oh yeah, right remember that
"per incedent"charge?
Oh well, so far, it seems to be working OK, but I guess I'm lucky, Take a look
at the Win NT forum, it is filled with people that can't get thier Diamond
video cards and Adaptec SCSI cards to work ( I have both, and , as I said, it
seems to be working, like I said…lucky <g> )
good luck with your NT installs,
I'm glad I got it now. Imagine if i had waited till 3DS5 came out, then had to
sit, staring at the box and manual, while I struggled with NT for 3 days. That
would be a nightmare…….<G>
BTW… I haven't configured my spell checker yet so please forgive the
mistakes, I don't have time to go over it myself……..
See ya
David
<<we should have a place on this forum for Windows NT questions.>>
i agree.
-Kyle
Yeah…. Considering the problems I had ( no where near as bad as trying to get
my scanner to work with my SCSI card) but still, annoying enough,
I'm sure many people will have questions / problems with the move to NT.
It is a fairly amazing Opsys.
It feels solid, I really can't explain it, but so far, I like it.
Win 16 apps are noticably slower. but Win 32 apps fly.
Simple things like moving or re-sizing windows just have a MUCH better feel. I
had it import all my WFWG groups andhave been trying each app to see what
works. Several apps crashed, but nothing seems to stop the system dead, also,
not having to worry about "system resources" is a BIG, BIG plus. I had
Photoshop, Premiere, and Elastic Reality all opened at the same time and there
was no (at least not a noticable) slowdown at all. With all three apps open, (
and Fast, Alt/Tab switching enabled) I can intstantly switch between apps. Much
better than than the Windows Task Mgr. " Switch to" routine.
All in all, after only about an hour or two , I can FEEL the power of this
system.
Now, more than ever, I know Autodesk / Yost Group made the best possable
decision.
See ya'
David
David,
>> Win 16 apps are noticably slower… <<
You should be getting about a 20 – 30 % speed increase. One thing I've noticed
is that if PHARLAP.386 is in your system.ini file, it puts a real drag on the
system whether or not your are using 3DS. Don't know why. I put it in just to
see and took it out after running 3DS. Otherwise everything definitely should
run faster… too bad you didn't post a note about your difficulties earlier. I
might have been able to spare you some grief. Using the Express Setup, should
have been pretty easy, it automatically configures for Diamond and Adaptec
controllers. I've installed it on five systems now, with the only hitch being
the password on the first install. Oh and I installed into the Windows
directory. I'd recommend doing that, unless you can't fully backup your system.
John
Thanks John
I'll try taking Phar Lap out of the System .INI….( god ..it's going to be
great not having to deal with that next year.)
As soon as I I had a hang up durning the ESDI/IDE driver install (express) and
I saw the info on page 33 of the install man. I knew what I had to do. I just
didn't have the jumper setting information and I had to disable one drive and
change another one to my first controller which entailed changing the jumper on
it to make it a slave of the (new) first drive. I don't want this to sound like
one of those "That's why I have a MAC" articles but I know that even with all
the BS, it's worth it.
Now I don't know why my winCim spell checker won't work, it says it runs with
NT????? Oh well, something else to keep me away from 3DS ( and I have some
serious Beta testing to do 😉
Bye
David
Sounds like you've got it covered David. I expect there'll be glitches until
more people know what to expect and how to best approach it. And of course
every configuration is a little different that being the nature of the PC.
Any new territory is bound to confuse and frustrate to a degree. And we all
handle that differently. It is noteworthy that you understood the problem and
were able to resolve it. Hopefully you will share your insight as you proceed
forward with NT and add to the collective knowledge pool. That would be great,
though I understand it not always feasible.
Regards,
John
>Sounds like you've got it covered
Yeah, I had to lose a drive but if I can get a decent download of the NT
service pack #2, Ill probably get that back.
Ever since I started working with computers (8088 Tandy, Atari St, Amiga 500,
etc ) I found the best wat to learn is to have problems. When I have a problem,
I may ask for the information that will help me, but I try not to have others
do the work. The worse things get, the more I learn. Sometimes it's not much
fun, but I try to keep moving forward.
> I expect there'll be glitches until more people know what to expect and >how
to best approach it.
I'm glad Jonus said we can use the Opsys/Hdware/Video Lib. for an NT thread. I
sure it will be needed. I hope more people decide not to wait until 3DS 5 comes
out before they get NT. I know that as far as I'm concerned, I want to be as
comfortable with NT as possable when rel. 5 arrives.
>Hopefully you will share your insight as you proceed forward with NT >and add
to the collective knowledge pool. That would be great, though I >understand it
not always feasible.
Of course I'll do whatever I can to help those down the line. I wouldn't feel
good about asking for help unless I gave when I could.
See ya'
David
David,
Great, so you'll keep us posted as you delve into it more…
Thanks,
John
>Great, so you'll keep us posted as you delve into it more…
You betcha, delving away…… (Now I can't quite get a proper PPP connection
going, getting close though, at least my modem stays connected. A BIG
improvement over yesterday <g> )
Bye
David
My NT experience was totally different than yours. It recognized everything in
my system which OS2 couldn't do, and the operating system is simply
bulletproof.
>Bullet Proof….
It is fantastic alright. My problems stem from two unusual circumstances.
1) I have a mother board with TWO built in IDE controllers,. I had 3 IDE drives
on the system. NT has a bit of a problem with that. The problem is documented
but the solution is not. It wasn't that big of a deal, just a bit of a time
consuming P.I.T.A. . I knew what I had to do to get NT up and running, so I
did it. The fact that I temporarily lost the use a drive is not really
bothering me. (and now that I installed the "Service Pack 2" It should be
fixed.(at least according to the microsoft "Escalation Engineer" that I spoke
to on the WinNT forum.))
2) My CD-ROM is a piece of crap. I didn't really expect to find an Aztech
variant of a Compudyne marketed Mitsumi drive. on the installed driver list. I
tried the standard Mitsumi driver, but no luck, oh well… It's a good excuse
to get a new 6 speed drive.
As far as everything else goes, I think NT is the greatest OpSys I've ever
worked on. Period. I love the way it feels, And Last night I played with the
NT version of Photoshop for the first time… all I can say is WOW!!!!!!
It is amazing! G-Blurs on 640 x 480 in almost real time! The preview function
is almost not needed.
I didn't want to give anybody the impression that I was mad at NT or upset that
I'd gotten it. I just want people on this forum to know what to expect. We must
all remenber that this entire forum will be using NT within a year or so. It
will be of prime importance to everyone here to have a database of NT
information from the point of view of the 3DS user. The sooner we start sharing
problems,solutions,tips,tricks,and war stories, the better off all of us will
be in the long (and short) run.
Signed
A very happy, slightly war ravaged, new NT lover.
>> My NT experience was totally different than yours. It recognized everything
in my system OS2 couldn't do, and the operating system is simply bulletproof.
<<
Well hello Rico!!! We already have alot in common and we've barely met! <g>
I've been banging away on NT with five different machines; 4 p90s and 1 Eisa
DX2 and my experience sounds right in line with yours. Been a few minor minor
glitches, me doing the wrong thing, but that's it. NT is solid. The more I get
into it the more I love it! I bought another hard drive for one machine so that
I'd have 1 gig on each. The Disk management system is fantastic. With a DOS
fdisk you get a screwy partion which you then need On track or some similar
disk manager but not with NT. I went into NT deleted the old formatted partion.
Re-partioned, got the full partion and five minutes later its formatted and
ready to fly. Wow! It too cool. No wierd sectors, full use of the drive and I'm
cruising! And the way it aligns the drives everything just hums. I'm absolutely
loving it, best thing to happen to the PC since 3DS. <g>
Regards,
John
John,
>> I went into NT deleted the old formatted partion. Re-partioned, got the full
partion and five minutes later its formatted and ready to fly.
Is this using the FAT, or NTFS?
John (still trying to get ready for the big jump…the software's here,
gulp…and I just put another 32 megs in)
>> is this using the FAT, or NTFS? <<
Actually you can do either John. I chose to stay with DOS/FAT because until 3DS
is native, I think its more convienent. But there are many advantages to NTFS
which I'm sure I'll use exclusively once 3DS is on line. Like automatic file
recovery, extended file/directory nameing, extended file attributes, not to
mention as an integrated element in the impressive Security system; which
allows for file sharing with different access priviliges across other
network(s). Another nice feature which utilises NTFS is the Disk Monitoring
system, which in the event of a problem, enables a more certain recovery, and
in the case of power outage does an automatic restore…
I trust your installation will go smoothly; alot of what was cited is in the
installation guide, hope that helps. And if you do plan to use multiple IDE's
I'd check that portion of the manual as well. DTC makes an add on 32 bit for
PCI, EISA, VESA, ISA, IDE controller which runs Novell, OS2, NT, Windows and
WFWG in 32 bit mode with drivers included and is reasonably priced. You can
configure this for two additional drives on the secondary port for a total of
four. I think they have additional drivers to add more if you need them. Though
more than four I'd seriously consider SCSI. <g> I haven't tried a 1 gig IDE
with NT but I suspect you can use the whole thing in one partition. If anyone
knows, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
Have fun!
John
John,
>> Hopefully you will share your insight as you proceed forward with NT and
add to the collective knowledge pool. <<
Perhaps the SYSOP can keep all the NT installation problems in a .TXT file for
those of us to DL before we upgrade…
– Steve Ormonde
David
If you have Win3.1 apps that crash, try telling NT to allocate seperate memory
space, p.326-327 in the System Guide.
Good luck
TedB
-Ted Boardman
!^NavFont01F0007MGHHG73E491
Thanks,
So far, the only Win16 apps that crashed in NT are ones that just don't work. I
migrated my WFWG groups to NT, so a lot of the programs are not compatible with
NT. So far, it's been love and hate all the way. I fell in love with NT the
first time I move a window, WOW….. it just feels right. And I drooled a
loving drip on my keyboard the first time I ran Photoshop 3. GOD IT IS
FAST!!!!!!!!!! It seems to be a lot more than twice as fast at doing effects.
(Seems anyway)
Hate…. well I had to disable my third IDE Drive. That meant losing a quarter
of my disk space and worse yet, re-assigning a bunch of apps "properties"
(because the drive letters changed) It also meant pulling out the other drives
and several phone calls to various tech support people so I could re-set the
jumpers on those drives because the master / slave relationships were all
changed.
I still cant get NT to see my CD-ROM, and to add anything (TCP/IP etc.) means
shuffling 20 disks.
I know the Hate will fade and the love will grow, but right now, my fingers are
still bleeding from the hardware changes.
Oh well…. I'm learning lots- o-new stuff, and that's why I started playing
with 8088s and ATARI STs to begin with 😉
See ya
Thanks again for the info
David
David,
>> Hate…. well I had to disable my third IDE Drive.
I saw you mention this a little while back. Are you saying NT won't recognize
more than 2 IDE HD's ??? I've got one of the Intel P90 MB's, and have 4
identical 540meg drives hanging off it, (they're on the HCL list). Am I going
to lose 2?. If so, which ones? And do you know why?
Thanks,
John
>I saw you mention this a little while back. Are you saying NT won't recognize
more than 2 IDE HD's ??? I've got one of the Intel P90 MB's, and have 4
identical 540meg drives hanging off it, (they're on the HCL list). Am I going
to lose 2?. If so, which ones? And do you know why?
NT is worth whatever trouble it causes. That said ,I'll do my best to answer
your question.
For some reason ( I still trying to find out exactly why) NT 3.5 as it ships,
will not install on a machine with more than 2 IDE (or EIDE) drives on more
than one HD controller. In the install manual, (pg. 33) it says that it will "
work with 2 built in controllers like in the Gateway 2000 pentium"
I found that not to be the case with my 2 "built in " HD controllers.
Microsoft discontinued "free install tech support". they have a fax back
system, but I couldn't get a readable fax from them ( and I was just trying to
get the list of topics, I don't even know if they have one about the drive
problem.) I finally found a nice install tech on the WinNT forum here on C$ ,
(They call them " Escalation Engineers") He said microsoft released a couple of
"Service Packs" that fix all kinds of things, the IDE limit being one of them.
It can be downloaded from WINNTDL section of C$.
It's 8.4 Mb! so I hope you have a big online buget this month. ( It took me
three tries to get it all, I had to disable my screen saver.)
I haven't tried to re-connect my third drive yet, but when I do I'll let the
forum know what happens.
NT is a truly great OpSys. I've already fallen in love with it. ( Microsoft is
another story…..<G> )
Thats all the info I have right now, but I'll keep you and everyonr else that
wants to know, posted.
Bye
David
David,
>>NT and more than 3 IDE controllers <<
I thought I heard of a problem with NT was that you couldn't have IDE's and
SCSI HDD's co-exist. Have you heard the same?
Ang
>I thought I heard of a problem with NT was that you couldn't have IDE's >and
SCSI HDD's co-exist. Have you heard the same?
Not at all. I did have a problem with 3 IDE drives, but I also have an Adaptec
2940 SCSI card connected to a Seagate 1Gb SCSI drive.
NT had no problem finding and using the SCSI drive in addition to the IDE HDD.
I'm glad that there is a least one rumor I can put to rest..<g>
See ya
David
David,
>> In the install manual, (pg. 33) it says that it will " work with 2 built in
controllers like in the Gateway 2000 pentium"
Hmmm…someone on the WINNT forum said this also, and said it *does* work for
him. I'm hoping the fact that all my HD's are identical will let it work.
(fingers crossed…)
John
>Hmmm…someone on the WINNT forum said this also, and said it >*does* work for
him. I'm hoping the fact that all my HD's are identical will let it work.
(fingers crossed..
good luck………
DC
>> Are you saying NT won't recognize more than 2 IDE HD's… <<
John, now seriously, this is how rumors get started. No that is not true. You
can use 2 disk drive per controller with up to six IDE/ESDI controllers.
One thing that many people may not be aware of is that NT is a tight OS. If
your system is flakey, you're going to have to straighten it out. And that's
the bottom line. With that tighteness you get a really clean maximum
performance machine, and I think its excellent! I think this explains more than
anything the success I've had with NT as compared with some others. I'm very
careful that IRQ's and memory addressing amoung other things are not stepping
on each other. Which in the wild world of DOS you can get away with, albiet
with some performance loss. With NT its got to be tight and it has all kinds of
monitoring and security systems to help you evaluate the condition of your
system. I love it!
John
>John, now seriously, this is how rumors get started. No that is not true. >You
can use 2 disk drive per controller with up to six IDE/ESDI >controllers.
>
>One thing that many people may not be aware of is that NT is a tight OS. >If
your system is flakey, you're going to have to straighten it out. And >that's
the bottom line. With that tighteness you get a really clean >maximum
performance machine, and I think its excellent! I think this >explains more
than anything the success I've had with NT as compared >with some others. I'm
very careful that IRQ's and memory addressing >among other things are not
stepping on each other. Which in the wild >world of DOS you can get away with,
albeit with some performance loss. >With NT its got to be tight and it has all
kinds of monitoring and security >systems to help you evaluate the condition of
your system. I love it!
Yes it will work, ..what I was saying is that (according to Microsoft, )It wont
work "Out of the box", it needs the addition of "Service Pack 2"" ( a free 8.4
Mb program, available on C$). In the install Manual. it says that If you need
to use multiple IDE controllers, you must ask your service representative. Now
the bad part about that is, Microsoft discontinued their "Free Win NT
installation tech. support" at the end of last year. To Speak to an actual
Microsoft human being ( yes, there are a few…<g> )
You must fork out at least "$150.00 per incident".
What you said is all true. And I love it too, ( Love at first Byte?……)
but many of us don't yet have the tightness of system that NT thrives on. That
is not an indictment of NT, but rather a "call to arms" for all of us to get
our collective fecal matter together.
Considering the impact Win NT will have on all who haunt this forum, it is
important to get little tings "Like the multi-IDE problem / solution" out in
the open for all of us to learn and to teach.
Bye
David Camp
David,
>> Yes it will work, …what I was saying is that (according to Microsoft) it
won't work "out of the box". <<
Yes I did understand that that was your understanding, which is why I addressed
John specifically. I just didn't want there to be any confusion.
The fact is MS does provide a solution for your "problem", though in practice I
would not recommend the configuration you've been using anyway. I think any
more than 2 500 Mb IDE's warrants a SCSI solution and that is how my systems
are configured. I use them only for software and image files, rendered frames
all go out to contiguous large format SCSI. I think this is fairly common. But
however you're doing it, it works for you. Actually my approach was suggested
when R3 came out with its advanced networking capability, and it does work very
well.
>> many of us don't yet have the tightness of system that NT thrive on <<
Yes that's what I discovered. And I think we've done the AMMEDIA community a
service by identifying this as a potential problem. However, I don't think its
as much a question of NT, as a question of staying up with current technology.
Be that as it may, there are four months within which to get situated and if
anyone thought they were going to go for more than 18 months without upgrading,
I've got news for them. The industry cycle is 18 months. I personally work on a
12 month cycle with adjustments, and that's what I base my projections on. Its
worked quite well so far. The important thing is not to be buying at the head
but about 3 or 4 months behind which sort of does work into the 18 month cycle.
If R5 had come out on the 18 month cycle, everyone would have been knee deep in
the hoopla… so in spite of some protests to the contrary, we can consider
ourselves fortuneate, that a) they mentioned the OS migration and b) that there
is ample to time to faciliate it. Anyone who bought a new system with the
release of R4, provided they'd bought a healthy amount of RAM to begin with,
would still be in good shape by the time R5 comes out, and I think expecting
anymore than that is very unrealistic. Another way to guage your purchasing
decisions.
And I am certainly not taking issue with your raising these points, if anything
suggests that, I'd like to see it. As I said I think you and I are doing the
forum a service. FWIW.
John
>>cant get NT to see my CD-ROM
We had trouble with NT not recognising a spare Sony CDROM we had laying around.
Then we changed a (enable/disable -something or other) jumper on the drive and
it showed up, but the eject button no longer worked. We've been using it like
that for a few days -hey it beats using floppies!<G>
-Paul
>> are ones that just don't work <<
What are those apps, David? Opps, I see there are a couple of replys to your
message so I'll check further.
I just ordered PhotoMorph2/NT, just to see how it does!
Later
TedB
-Ted Boardman
!^NavFont01F000DMGJHGbMGdHGAB7E74
David,
I'll be sure to keep you in mind when I move over – in a month or so. I've got
to wait till I get some of my current projects out the door.
<<I had Photoshop, Premiere, and Elastic Reality all opened at the same time
and there was no (at least not a noticable) slowdown at all.>>
that's good to hear, I crash windows a lot, and try to only have one or two
open apps at any one time.
thanks for the info.
-Kyle
>that's good to hear, I crash windows a lot, and try to only have one or two
>open apps at any one time.
Same with me. crash after crash, It's not so bad now that I have "Landmark
DataSafe" it allows you to recover from GPFs and other crashes most of the
time. ( I still have a mild case of the re-boot blues, but hey that's life)
NT is really something. You'll like it. ( Cool open GL screen savers really
show what open GL can do.)
See ya'
David
<<Cool open GL screen savers really show what open GL can do.>>
yeah, of the ones, I've seen, I like the pipes the best, especially when it
inserts a teapot!
-Kyle
Teapot? What do you mean? is that a new screen saver?
I don't have NT yet, but I saw it on one of my freinds machines. the screen
saver creates 3D pipes that lie in a 3D space in your screen. then, in order
to make turns, it'll insert 90 degree pieces, and on occasion, it'll insert a
mathematically generated teapot instead of a piece of pipe. it's really kind
of funny.
<<.. it's really kind of funny… >>
But when you tell someone to find it, it seems never to show up.. 😉
yeah, you've got to watch closely – it takes a keen eye. 🙂
>But when you tell someone to find it, it seems never to show up.. 😉
Thanks a lot Jonus….. Now I just HAVE to quit windows for workdupes, reset,
start up NT , start the screen saver, and WAIT for thar darn TEAPOT!!!!
I'll probably be up all night……….
<g>
David
<< I'll probably be up all night……….>>
😉
I dig the Pipes too, it's almost as cool as windows "Mystify" (still my fav.
and the only one I had loaded for over a year) Pipes is my NT Saver
( Screen savers, …. remember when they really were there to save your screen
………. 1986 or so I think????)
BTW I just figured out how to have NT, DOS, WFWG, and WIN95 all on the same
system with no problems ( and I can still use my old DOS Multi-configuration
boot up if I want. !!!)
All the horror stories, all for nothing…<G> It works GREAT !
David
>> BTW I just figured out how to have NT, DOS, WFWG, and Win95 all on the same
system with no problems. <<
Well don't keep us in suspense David, tell us, how did you do that? 🙂
Seriously I think alot of people would be very interested to know.
Personally, I think you're an OS maniac, but hey what do I know. <G> BTW how do
you like Win95? What features do you find particularly appealing etc. I hadn't
planned on getting it but I'm kind a curious and I know a few other people are
as well….
TIA,
John
David,
glad to hear it works. I just installed my new 4.2 Gig drive yesterday, and as
soon as I get a week that isn't so hectic, I'll be installing NT.
-Kyle
>>>With all three apps open, ( and Fast, Alt/Tab switching enabled) I can
intstantly switch between apps. Much better than than the Windows Task Mgr. "
Switch to" routine.<<<
Do you know you can use Alt-Tab to switch between apps in Windows also?
>Do you know you can use Alt-Tab to switch between apps in Windows >also?
Yes, I know you can, but with the resource limitations with windows, I've never
been able to do it with BIG graphic Apps. only with small word processors and
utilities, etc.
On my first NT session, I had Photoshop, Elastic Reality, Transjammer, and
Premiere all open at once, and I could BANG from one to next instantly. And
they kept their speed.
In WFWG, If I have Photoshop open, I cant open Premiere without getting down to
about 20% system resources, which means a substantial drop in speed with a
corresponding increase in the likelihood of GPFs.
And, more than occasionally, a total crash.
NT really is multitasking, Windows tries but…..
That's the point I was trying to get across.I'm sorry if I gave the wrong
impression. Thanks for making it clear.
David
Hi David,
<< I think we should have a place on this forum for Windows NT questions. >>
Hmm.. Feel free to use Hardware/Opsys/Video section when it relates to our
products and your system and NT.
>Hmm.. Feel free to use Hardware/Opsys/Video section when it relates to >our
products and your system and NT.
Thanks, Jonus
I'm sure it will be appreciated by a lot of people in the coming year.
David