#ts 2.0-faster wireframe?
27 messages in this thread
Will v2.0 have faster wireframe reconstruction?
Right now I am trying to move a camera through a more or less complex model and
it takes 10-15 seconds to rebuild the wireframe everytime I nudge the camera
just an inch.
Annoying, somehow.
Is there a switch to constantly force tS to simplify the objects to primitives
without the complex meshes?
Bye,
Marc
Marc,
Open the settings dialog, and turn ON NoEcho… you will see a big improvment
in redraw speed.
Ian
Yes.. Go to your settings box and change your threshold setting. Here's the
help text for threshold:
As you transform objects in trueSpace's workspace, the program attempts to
maintain maximum feedback by continually redrawing wireframe objects during
manipulations. This is in contraxt to other programs, which automatically
create bounding boxes during any transformation, reducing feedback and
requiring more time for set-up. However, with complex objects and/or many
simultaneously open views, forcing everything to continually redraw can cause
unwanted delays, in which case the program resorts to using bounding boxes
during transformations.
This setting determines the maximum redraw time before a scene is simplified
with bounding boxes while transforming objects. The lower the setting, the
greater the likelihood that simplification will occur. If you're working with
complex objects and redraw time is taking too long while transforming it, lower
this setting. If more than one view window is open, the total redraw time in
all windows is taken into consideration. If not all windows need to be
simplified, the current window is simplified last. In other words, if you have
a small Top view window open and you're dragging a complex object in the main
Perspective view, it may appear as a bounding box in the Top view but as a
wireframe in the Perspective view.
WHen working with hierarchical objects, there is an additional level of detail
between wireframe and bounding box, which is hierarchical bounding box. This
creates a bounding box for each member of hierarchy, rather than a single one
for the entire object.
Reducing the treshold does not do the trick, at least not completely.
If I, for instance, look through a camera onto a complex scene and I wanted to
adjust the camera's view,
I need the camera to be the "active" object, which immediately will be
transformed to boundary boxes (if treshold is set to zero).
But the scene I am looking at won't. tS tries to redraw it every few seconds,
so smooth manual panning of the camera to find a good angle is almost
impossible.
The objects of the scene are not "active" (white).
Sorry, but I guess I didn't make myself clear enough in my first mail.
BTW: I just uploaded "HITMAN.JPG".
This is when I discovered my problem…
Bye,
Marc
e-merge
This sounds like a slow video card problem, what card do you have Marc???
Ian
I am running tS 1.04 on a Pentium 90 (32MB) with an Elsa Winner Pro 1000 (2MB)
under Win95 (M8).
(BTW: When rendering the scene, Win 95 creates a 70 Meg Swapfile… not bad
(well, actually, this IS bad, but anyway <g>))
The Elsa is not THAT slow…
Bye,
Marc
e-merge
Well, if tS is using 100MB to render the scene, I would definately say that the
size of the scene is what is slowing it down. My largest render to date took
about 56 MB, and that scene had over 50000 faces and 400 objects.
>not bad (well, actually, this IS bad, but anyway <g>
Actually, that's terrible… If any of my scenes hit the swap file, I kill the
animation, and find a way to trim down wasted textures, objects, or faces, so
it runs from RAM…. Swapping is 70000 times slower than RAM, and generating
the number of frames I do in a week, I would need years(instead of months) to
finish my current project.
Ian
Can you get me the object (GRVENC to sysop area) to try some things? I know
what you're talking about, but even with some really complex objects on my
system, I don't see it being that bad.. I'd like to help, though.
I will upload the "visor"-object as you suggested (GRVENC), so you can take a
closer look (VISOR.OBJ).
When I link a small view window with the camera and try to pan the camera *the
smallest bit*
tS needs at least 3-4 seconds to update the view.
As I already said: No way for smooth adjusting of the viewport.
Bye,
Marc
e-merge
P.S.: Did you by chance come across my "snail-movement" problem?
I would really enjoy seeing the size of this scene file…5 MB?? 10MB??
I don't think you are going to find any smooth panning with a scene that
requires 100 MB to render.
Ian
Movement of the eye seems to perform quite differently on different
cards/systems. We have an Intergraph box with Windows 95 here that does it
amazingly fast. The MGA Impression Plus seems to be particularly slow in
wireframe mode, but it *is* very nice when trying to move the eyepoint in
solid-render mode.
We would be very interested in how large of a scene file (in polygons and MB)
you normally work with and what the largest is that you have ever used. Also, I
have talked to some of you who say that they have amassed huge amounts of
models/scene data. Who is the scene king/queen?
trueSpace2 has some nice little enhancements that we don't normally talk about,
but one is that you can specify one of five modes: unselected objects are
always shown as boxes, unselected objects are shown as boxes while the active
object is manipulated, unselected objects are always shown as wireframes
(opposed to solid rendered objects), unselected objects are shown as wireframes
while the active solid-rendered object is manipulated, all objects are always
rendered in real-time.
We have thought about adding object management through layers in the future.
How important do you think this would be compared to the other items on the
wish list?
Konstantin
>Also, I have talked to some of you who say that they have amassed huge amounts
of models/scene data. Who is >the scene king/queen?
Void Pirates currently has a total of 271 scene files with over 500 textures
among them.
>We have thought about adding object management through layers in the future.
How important do you think this >would be compared to the other items on the
wish list?
This would be an excellent feature!
I still want camera viewport cropping as well, please…
Ian
>>>We have thought about adding object management through layers in the future.
How important do you think this would be compared to the other items on the
wish list?<<
I agree with Ian…this would be a great addition to tS…
Rob
|->I still want camera viewport cropping as well, please…<-|
Hi Konstantin-add my vote to Ian's for this-it's sorely needed to more easily
check the final cropping of the image.
…Ken
>We have thought about adding object management through layers in the future.
How important do you think >this would be compared to the other items on the
wish list?
Definitely important… <g>
This really would speed up working on more complex scenes.
However, the different view modes are a step into the right direction
Bye,
Marc
e-merge
>5 MB?? 10MB??
4.8 MB
The scene is not that complex.
Bye,
Marc
e-merge
>4.8 MB
>The scene is not that complex.
That is f**king HUGE !!!! And very complex.
My biggest scene for Void Pirates is 900k. It contains over 600 individual
objects and calls some 100 textures, and takes quite awhile to move around in
on a P90 with a Stealth.
Ian
The scene "only" contains one of the rooms from the trusclips CD plus a human
mannequin.
If this volume of data makes tS stutter, than I guess I will be facing massive
disappointments
in the near future when going for the first serious projects.
Bye,
Marc
e-merge
>The scene "only" contains one of the rooms from the trusclips CD plus a human
mannequin.
Considering those objects are 3DStudio objects, they have many more faces than
they would if created with trueSpace.
Please ZIP and upload the scene here… otherwise we will never figure this
out.
Ian
You've got to realize that some of that stuff may (I'm not sure, here) have
been converted from .dxf's (I *think* some of the Newmoneun Labs (sp?) was
converted) and that's not very trueSpace-efficient.. When you build your own
"stuff" in tS, you probably won't ready the number of faces, etc. that they
have, especially with FFD, and spline things that tS offers.. Also, how much
physical RAM do you havy? (Have?)
Marc,
I went ahead and loaded the COB file you are using. It took 8 minutes to load
on my 66.
The problem you are facing here is the COB file. It is a 3DStudio file,
converted to COB format.
The file IS enormous and complex, contrary to what you believe, there are over
10,000 tri-faced leaves on the tree alone, trueSpace can't even tell me how
many faces are in it (it says -24780).
>If this volume of data makes tS stutter, than I guess I will be facing massive
disappointments
>in the near future when going for the first serious projects.
This volumn of data would make anything stutter… I wouldn't even try to
render it in 3DStudio without at least 256 MB RAM.
trueSpace is not the problem here, ANY rendering program would have difficulty
with this mesh.
On the bright side, without the tree, I could recreate that COB in tS and keep
the size under 100k, not 4.7 meg like the one there (I would also render the
tree separate, created with textures, not a zillion polys).
Understand, the trueClips CD was just tossed together with whatever was
available. Very few of the files are actually original COB files. trueSpace
works best with files created with tS, not imports from other packages.
You will be just as dissapointed with any package out there with a file of this
size, please do not blame tS.
Regards,
Ian
>>…without at least 256 MB RAM.
Good grief!!!! How many polys are there in that scene????? I haven't had a
problem working w/scenes of over 300k faces on a 64 meg machine.
John Stetzer
JWS
(Genuinely curious…)
>>o what you believe, there are over 10,000 tri-faced leaves on the tree alone,
trueSpace can't even tell me how many faces are in it (it says -24780).<<
Sorry if I missed the specifics of this thread, but what scene is this? I
would like to check it out on my machine.
BTW, I've been routinely (sp?) loading 10k-30k face objects into tS generated
from some particle utilities I'm working on without a problem at all, and
rendering time is not that bad at all.
I agree with you that you should try to optimize your models, but on the other
hand, I expect my tools (like tS) to be able to handle complex (50k-100k face)
objects….
FWIW,
Rob
8 Minutes? Sounds pretty good for that file.. I'll redo it with timings on
mine..
Don't forget to ZIP it if it's that big.. Also, what type of object is that?
(.obj)
Thanks..
You may take the objects directly from the trueclips CD as well.
nm_mgr04.cob combined with
im_wmn1.cob
The object I view thios scene through is in GRVENC: VISOR.OBJ
Bye,
Marc
e-merge