#Beveled Text
34 messages in this thread
Help!!!! I can't seem to find an EASY way to bevel text. Every time I
try to use the Deform/Bevel functions, I get a error message saying something
to the effect that I have an invalid beveled shape. I think I've tried just
about everything I can think of other than to scale down the text, rearrange a
bunch of vertices, then loft them on different levels. Any help would be
greatly appreciated.
JW
Jason, every time I have gotten that error message it has been becasue I had
too much bevelling set in the bevel deform grid. Try it with a minimal amount
of bevelling and see if the error goes away. If it does, you can work your way
out from there. Good Luck!
-TC
If I lessen the bevel to a point where it won't give me any error
messages, I get a bevel that's too small to see. Thanks, anyways.
JW
Actually, you'd probably be better off with the latter. Use OUTLINE in the
Shaper instead of scaling up/down – then loft using the multiple shapes.
BILL
Thanks for the quick reply. Using outline in the shaper seems to be
giving me the bevel that I need, but when I render, the smoothing groups that
are automatically assigned to my mesh makes it look like I have a curve instead
of a sharp edge. Is there an angle where the lofter will not make intersecting
faces smooth together? Or maybe a way to change the groups after the fact.
JW
You can apply smoothing after you loft the object by using the Surface/
Smoothing/Object/Auto Smooth command. You might have to experiment with the
angle a bit.
– Jack
You're welcome. I see others have you covered on your questions.
BILL
Jason, When you loft your object turn off smooth length in the make object
dialog box. That will fix your problem. Jacks idea will work fine also – just
you'll have to go through an extra step.
Dave Mennenoh
Thanks, Dave. Turning off smoothing on length worked perfectly! JW
Jason, Bills reply is right on. The best (and only really) way to do beveled
text is to use outline in the shaper. You will need to do some manual vertex
tweaking but it is straight forward and fast to do.
Dave Mennenoh
<<The best (and only really) way to do beveled
text is to use outline in the shaper.>>
There is another way of doing it. If you use a shapestep set to 0, the 3D
Lofter isn't twisting the splines. The only thing is that you have to refine
the shape yourself to the smothness you prefer by hand, using Segment/refine
in the 2D Shaper.
The 3D Lofter can still move the vertices on the wrong side of
eachother making it an invalid shape. That mostly happens if you put
vertices too close to a corner.
-M.E
Hi David,
"The best (and only really) way to do beveled text is to use outline in the
shaper."
Or, you could use MacroModel to lay it out and bevel it in a snap. Choose the
resolution you'd like for the model, export as DXF and poof! that's it!
It's a good companion tool to 3D Studio… they work well together.
Blatantly tooting horn, and beggin' your collective indulgences,
John Dowdell
Macromedia Tech Support
Thanks for the tip – but I could never justify buying MacroModel to bevel
text when I can do it in 3DS in a very short amount of time. It's really
pretty simple, and 3DS is such a great modeler MM couldn't touch it.
Especially with IPAS3 – maybe before though. I have seen some cool models
done with it but nothing 3DS couldn't do. Anyway, see ya.
Dave Mennenoh
>>use MacroModel for beveled text…
John D, Macromedia,
I'll have to agree with you – I've been making most my beveled text with
MacroModel (5/28/93 version). I don't think I'd buy it just for that ($$$),
but since I already have it… As I'm sure you are aware, it is slower than
molasses. Also, I find the user interface difficult to manage viewpoints, but
for text this is not a problem. Without question a fantastically quick way to
create beveled text objects for 3DS. (That is, if you happen to have a second
computer handy to run Windows/MacroMedia, networked to the 3DS computer –
otherwise it's a real pain to switch)
A couple of questions for you. Why is it required to turn off Adobe Type
Manager to use TrueType fonts? I use both and it is frustrating to have to
disable ATM and restart Windows just to get to the rest of my fonts. Also, I
have created letters, notably the lower case 's', which are incompletely formed
on the back (missing faces). The front side was perfect. Any clues?
I have a suggestion – to make something really valuable to 3DS users, take your
font beveling algorithm and create an IPAS PXP plug-in for 3DS. For text, your
beveling method works so much better than the 3DS Bevel, and can produce better
results more quickly than the outline/loft technique. Add the ability to use
both TT and Type1 fonts, price it reasonably, and you'll probably sell
thousands.
JKJ
I second your Text IPAS suggestion. Good idea, but that's not a suprise,
you've got a great name.. <g>
I'd buy one (if the price was right.)
J_N_J (the younger one.. <BG>)
I agree with you… it would be cool to be able to use both Type 1 and
TrueType fonts simultaneously. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen,
and I don't know the techy reason why. If it's any consolation,
though, it's the same thing on the Mac! <g>
Re the missing back: Hmm… was this after DXF export, or in
MacroModel? If the latter, then which font, and is it reproducible? I
have not received calls on this, and would want to investigate.
I'm also concerned about your comment on redraw speed. John Tissavary
and I were discussing this two weeks back in the Multimedia Forum,
after he had seen a demo at a dealer's. In my own experience it's
been quite zippy on a number of machines.
There's a couple of things to check… considering the calibre of
your contributions here I'm sure a lot of this will be old hat to
you, but just in case:
— Model complexity: Probably the most important, as well as the most
unusual. All models are naturally stored as splines, but displayed
during work as polys. The sampling rate for display is independent
of actual model resolution. Cranking the display down low and
turning off surface normals will (in my experience) give gratifying
responsiveness.
Although displayed as polys, it's still editable as Beziers in
the world. DXF export is still resolution-independent, too.
— Scene complexity: The usual about hiding objects. One twist: you
can model in multiple files at once, as 2D and 3D geometry can be
copied from doc to doc. Scale, position, and orientation are
preserved. Copying the same 2D floorplan into multiple docs cuts need
for redraw… unusual technique, but effective.
— Lighting complexity: Although very useful for interactive light
and shadow studies, this would be irrelevant for 3D Studio work.
Single lights go faster.
— System complexity: The 8-bit internal renderer is noticeably
quicker than the 24-bit DLL. Keeping the monitor at 8-bit is twice as
fast on my system. Networked Windows will be slower than passive
machines. And, well, you know about Windows setup <g>… Windows
memory and configuration introduce great variables.
That last point bears elaboration… Windows does slow things down.
Comparable Macs interact noticeably faster, although PC rendering
blows the doors off Macs. With a PowerPC redraws are
near-instantaneous, but there's no ability to render there yet…
we'll need to work on that.
Thanks for the tip on the PXP option, John… will pass that along to
the engineers, as I'm sure they'll be interested. If I can be of
help, please GO MACROM, where I hang out daily. Appreciate your
thoughts… thanks!
PMJI – This is one function in 3DS that I think works poorly. It's not clear to
me why, either. Several programs, including Macromodel can bevel text without
erroring out. That ought to be fixed, right in 3DS, so the illegal loops are
nipped off and adjusted for, allowing you to get a good bevel. Since I hold
this opinion, I'd be loath to spend more on an IPAS that could do it correctly.
David my-not-so-humble-opinion Taffet
(Having just been thinking about this issue in the last couple of weeks…Like,
why, when you make an outline in the Shaper, are the original objects distorted
a little? I always have to save a copy of the original and replace the ones I
generated outlines from, in addition to the manual tweaking to get the
curvatures organic again…)
David,
There was a thread recently on this subject you may look for. I've never done a
great deal of text objects in 3DS, but when I have, lofting beveled objects
from outlined shapes has always worked well for me. You may need to handle the
shapes considering possible outline distortion and/or refine them manually. In
many cases, in order to outline a defined shape AND maintain a constant
displacement – the outline shape would HAVE to be distorted. FWIW, many other
programs on this platform have struggled with an automated "no-problems" bevel
routine for a long time….some eventually got better. It's really not that
easy to do, I don't imagine (not being a programmer).
BILL
It's not a distortion of the outline that I expressed dissatisfaction with,
it's distortion of the original polygon. I'm not a programmer either, but it
seems to me that if 3DS can tell where there is an illegal loop, it ought to be
possible to nip off that loop and generate something that visually and
mathematically works. But, hey, what do I know?
DT
I guess I didn't understand your question. I don't recall having seen the
ORIGINAL shape being distorted ?? But if yours is, how difficult is it to copy
it before doing the outline ? About 2 seconds work. A long time ago I used to
get frustrated with various packages auto-beveling routines, but when I really
thought about it, I realized it was more difficult that it appeared on first
impression. But as I said, I haven't experienced any problems manually
constructing LEGAL beveled text, and it hasn't been that much work. But as I
said, I don't really do that much work with text these days.
If you have Macromodel and it pleases you, can't you export to 3DS and then
take advantage of all the good stuff it offers ?
BILL
Actually, Bill, I bevel my text in 3DS using outlines and tweaking them then
lofting on different levels of the path. 3DS is my main software and I use it
for as much as I can. You're right that making a copy of my original is 2
seconds' work, but sometimes, with certain fonts, I overrun my vector limit and
have to fuss around more. I'm a lazy &*^$#, so I hate fussing around. As to my
question, I didn't have one. I was butting in and making a comment.
DT
As Gary said, it's not perfect. I've never seen a perfect 3D app. on any
platform, and I probably never will. Doesn't hurt to speak up though.
BILL
David,
<< You're right that making a copy of my original is 2 seconds' work, but
sometimes, with certain fonts, I overrun my vector limit and have to fuss
around more. >>
You can increase the number of allowed vertices in the shaper by increasing the
value for SHAPE-MAX in the 3ds.set file. The default is 500 but it can go to
9999. In the lofter you can modify PATH-MAX and DEFORM-MAX. They have defaults
of 100 and 50 respectively but both can be increased to 9999. Also, MOD-MAX can
be changed to 500 from the default of 32. All of these parameters are found on
pg 42-43 of the installation guide. Increasing these values will consume more
memory as seen on pg. 113 of the installation manual, the last 2 sentences.
Some individuals will have 2 3ds.set files. One with these maxed out for
shaper/lofter work and the other with these set to the absolute minimum values
of 1 in order to give the renderer an additional 4 megs.
jonas[adesk]
In addition to what Bill said, I'll just add that we have to generalize the
functionality of 3DS in order to actually finish a product and ship on time.
The beveler works very well within certain parameters, but it's one of the
weakest parts of 3DS because we were concentrating on other things (like the
renderer).
We are not perfect. We have never been perfect. We will never be perfect.
– G
>> We are not perfect. We have never been perfect. We will never be
>> perfect.
Say it isn't so! <g>
>> We will never be perfect. <<
I would not go that far!! I _could_ happen! 🙂
— James — MAP —
I have no expectation of you or the Yost group being perfect. I have no
expectation of 3DS being perfect, especially because everyone has a different
definition of perfect. I can *easily* see that time considerations and
priorities could put the outlining and beveling functions farther down the
list. I appreciate that you're showing you're aware of 3DS's strong and weak
areas. Still (don't forget I'm not saying you should be perfect and do
everything for everyone and get it done by yesterday), flying beveled logos
around is a pretty common 3D kind of thing to do. When you can get to it, I'm
asking, can you please fix those functions? Not changing the original shapes
when generating an outline and a self-correcting bevel function make sense to
have in the top-of-the-line 3D product, n'est pas? Should I move this note to
WISHLIST?
DT
Yup.
– G
Besides, it *must* be that feedback on what is and isn't working is one of the
ways you guys know what to do. Right? Once in a while it *has* to be OK for
someone (even someone like me who does not make his primary living working with
3DS) to express an opinion on what is not working optimally. I'll NEVER claim
that the way outlining and beveling work now speeds up creating outlines and
bevels WAY beyond where it would be without the functions as they currently
exist – please don't misinterpret my original comment. Someone fairly new came
onto the forum saying their beveling was coming out weird or illegal and I
happened along, after thinking about the outlining and beveling for a couple of
weeks and I took the opportunity to say "Hey. It's true that this is weak." I
was not and would not try to club you upside the head about this stuff. If I
seemed to be, I'm sorry. I'm much less confrontational and obnoxious than that
in real life. For whatever that's worth. How about, rather than "we're not
perfect and never will be", "we're aware of the weakness, but time and deadline
pressures forced us to ship these functions at 90%. We intend to strengthen the
program in these areas in the future."? I would not have felt as though I'd
accidentally stepped on your toes, at least.
I gotta go. Hopefully this note has not made things worse.
DT
Right on DT!
The Yost guys are doing a great job. But what frustrates me is to see these
el-cheapo 3D packages who advertise their stuff by showing the cool beveling
features. It is frustrating to have to jump though hoops to tweek our text to
get it to look right. But I dare those other guys to create the high end
resolution and effects that 3DS can do. The problem is that many of us could
use beveling alot more often than some of the other features.
My vote is for 3DS, and beveling.
…SW
Thanks for the, "Me, too"s. I see now I wrote wrongly in that note. I meant to
say I'd never say 3DS does NOT speed things up already. It does. But better
would be… better. I don't regret purchasing the program at all, and I do it
for fun (and the admiration of thronging millions, of course). I think it's
great or I wouldn't have gotten it, use it or spend any time on this forum. I
suppose I ought not to come back here after an extended absence and leave a
complaint, but that's not the way I meant it. It just happened to come up.
Whatever…
DT
One more "yea" for easier text beveling- and 3DS!
Jeff Blackwell
Thanks for the info… I'll give it a try.
JW