#CD-I VS. CDTV
24 messages in this thread
Where is Commodore Maketing ??? Where are the good writers that use Amiga
computers ???
These are good questions… but, do you know the answer ??
You can read the article in P.195 on Byte of Aug., entitled "Real Time Goes
Home" "Home appliances are coming with Multimedia features and a real-time
operating system"
Here are some concepts:
1) The CD-I system was the first in its genre of hardware, introduced in
the consumer makert in october 1991.
2) Interactive multimedia CD-I offers high-quality images, high fidelity
sound and interactivity.
3) Philips chose OS-9 as the basic operating system for CD-RTOS, the
ROM-based RTOS inside every CD-I.
4) Philips promised to ship CD-I players with MPEG before the year's end.
…and continues pointing out the good points of OS-9 and CD-I.
Who wrote this article, Philips's marketing ??? – I asked myself.-
Not Philips… but Ken Kaplan, president of Microware Systems wich,
!OHHH WHAT A COINCIDENCE!! developed and sells OS-9!
An article wich is suposed to cover RTOS is finally an ad for Philips CD-I.
I used OS-9 in 1984, with my first Tandy Color Computer. My opinion: a CP/M
clone with limited character-based multitasking.
A mention to CDTV ??? NO.
And we know that:
1) CDTV was released in June 1991.
2) CDTV offers good quality image and sound.
3) The AmigaDOS/Workbench combination is a lot better than OS-9
4) Commodore could (and should!) put MPEG/JPEG in CDTV
Where is Commodore Marketing ?? I don't know.
Is CDTV better than CD-I ?? Of course
What machine is known now by all the Byte readers ?? CD-I
Commodore should put its ad campaign in general magazines, such as Popular
Mechanics and in magazines such as Byte and PC Mag.! NOT IN AMIGA
MAGAZINES! (Amiga users already know CDTV!)
All the amiga users should write Byte. I think that CDTV needs a similar
article!. Come on! good writers, start sending CDTV articles to Byte!
CDTV future is Amiga's future!
F.C., Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Great comments! Now, how about forwarding a copy of your message to CBM
Marketing?
// Michael
\X/ …on AutoPilot
For me it's O.K.!
If you kwow where to send it, download my message and send it to
CBM Marketing.
My god! Byte published that??
Well, maybe if Commodore still had a presense in the CBM/Amiga forum on
CIS, we could make sure that they know about these media transgressions.
I'm certainly not going to attempt such casual contact with a COMPUTER
company with written letters and US Mail.
I think we are all mystified by Commodore's promotional attitude. You are
absolutely right about their apathy in this area. It seems like if it's
happening in the pages of a major US [computer] trade publication,
Commodore don't know about it or won't promote in it.
Anyone know the CI$ I.D. for Byte magazine?
Fernando,
A lot of BYTE (and other magazine) articles are written by technical
employees of the companies involved in the topic matter. In this case, Ken
Kaplan was at least one of the original creators of OS-9. I wonder if you
can find any author with the same experience within top Commodore
management/ownership.
Re: dates. While CD-I wasn't introduced to the consumer market until Oct
'91, the first commercial CD-I player was unveiled in late 1988 and was
already in industrial use by early 1990… long before CDTV. Going back
even further, the whole CD-I plan was laid out in public by Sony and
Philips in early 1986.
Sony, Kyocera, Matsushita, Yamaha, Philips-Japan, Sanyo… all of them are
either now making or say they will be making CD-I players this year.
Moreover, all CD-I players are also Photo CD players, and current models
can be upgraded to MPEG later this year for about $200. On the other hand,
CDTV doesn't yet have a Photo CD license, and current CDTV players are
unlikely to get MPEG.
Fact is, CD-I related companies never mention CDTV simply because they
don't consider it to be any competition. I think Commodore has realized
that too, which is why they're now pushing CDTV to its major buyers: Amiga
owners.
regards – kevin
The fact is that CDTV was available to the consumer in June, and CDTV in
october!. If you want to talk about past or date of projects… Then I can
say that CDTV derived from the A500 wich derived from the A1000. So the
design of CDTV was conceived in 1985/1986!
The dates aren't important!. CDTV is a system with the same features (I
think CDTV is better) as CD-I, and it is being ignored by such magazines as
Byte!. Just like the Amiga is being ignored!
And at last, the assertion that CD-I is some sort of international standard
is wrong. CD-I is so much propietary design as CDTV is!.
No organization of international standards has endorsed CD-I as a
multimedia standard.
ISO 9660, the only recognized CD-ROM-related standard in the multimedia
industry is supported by CDTV, and CD-I does not!
CDTV has MIDI input/output
CDTV has a printer port
CDTV has better sound capabilities than CD-I.
What is shown as the "only" interactive multimedia CD-ROM:
CD-I! That's what disturbs me!
And for Microware's president, I don't blame him! he tries to sell
CD-I, because CD-I incorporates his product, OS-9!!
Anything more ??
Fernando,
Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Greetings Fernando,
Sir, I hope you're not just naively repeating what Commodore President
Dionne said in his deliberately misleading letter in the final issue of
INFO magazine. So far, it sounds like you have been. Please correct me if
you aren't.
CD-I isn't any more proprietary than CD-DA or CD-ROM is. Anyone can
license it (and every major manufacturer has) and build their own CD-I
players.
CD-I also isn't CD-ROM. CD-I is a new derivative of the Compact Disc
standard, just as CD-ROM is a derivative of CD-DA. CD-ROM file standards
need not apply to CD-I, any more than such file standards would apply to
CD-DA.
As for MIDI, adapters were shown last year. Yamaha says their player will
include it. Most players (even current ones) also have ports which can be
used for keyboards and printers.
How is the sound "better" on CDTV? Here again, I think you're just
repeating what you've read without bothering to find out any details. I
admire informed enthusiasm for anything, including CDTV… but blind
fanaticism has always bothered me.
regards – kevin
Kevin,
I can't accept the "blind fanaticism" statement. I told you what I
read in an Amiga magazine, from words of Commodore's president. (I usually
believe in what I read on computer magazines)
On my experience with computers, I have owned a TRS-80 mod. III, a
Tandy, a Commodore 128D, an original PC, and I currently own a 386 with
OS/2 2.0 and the Amiga I use for video work.
On these years, I learned to respect every machine's strong points
and bad points. So, don't call me a "blind fanatic".
I have a small video titling and post-production company, and have
used the Amiga for 4 years. And it's being ignored more and more by
"general" computer magazines.
I saw CDTV software running in a local Amiga store, and CD-I software in a
recent Philips product presentation, and both are near in quality. And for
the sound matter, the Amiga (CDTV) has four channels of sound, in stereo,
tell me what "better" CD-I is. (The CD-I unit I saw was connected to a mono
monitor)
OK, let's say CD-I is a lot better, an open standard, an all what you
want!. But let's answer me only this question (wich is the fact of the
matter):
Is it joust (to Byte) to completely ignore a competing product, when both
have the same features and are for the same market ??
If you think it is joust, it's your opinion.
Fernando,
Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Fernando,
No, I don't think that a requirement for being "just" applies in this case.
BYTE wasn't doing a comparison article. They were doing a theme issue on
real time computing. And if this issue was like most issues, the articles
had been submitted many months beforehand and kept around until they could
be used in such a theme collection.
Therefore I think that you were correct to originally yell at Commodore to
submit some articles, announcements, ads, etc. Perhaps if someone from
there had submitted an article on the realtime aspects of CDTV, it would've
been printed instead/also. But we'll never know unless one is submitted.
kevin
Good Question Fernando –
You are right, where is Commodore's marketing. That, my friend, has
been the same question we keep asking over and over again, for I don't know
how many years now.
C='s has a good product in CDTV but not many know that it is out there
(So what else is new – here we sit at our Amiga's, which still not a great
many people know about.) Also we have been through this thing with Byte
before, they are bias and we all know it.
"Be readin' ya"
(c) Roy Pahnke – 1985 🙂
Ok, Roy and Fernando… time to defend your position!
You ask where is Commodore marketing, in particular you folks are talking
about a typical Byte article about multimedia. You assume that the author
of the piece did not know about CDTV. I am sure this is not the case at
all as Kevin pointed out. Of course Kevin may not consider CDTV to be real
threat, but then again he has not tried to sell CD-I or CDTV in a store. I
can not sell the current CD-I machine, and I guess neither can the
marketing guru's at Tandy.
Now that you have made the statement "Commodore has no marketing" which is
a very popular statement by the way. Back it up! If you were sittiong at
Jim Dione's right hand side in charge of marketing what would you do?
Remembering now of course that the US operation is not Commodore
International and that the company has a budget mandated by Commodore
International.
Would you shoot your wad on a one time television campagin? Or would you
use the print media? Would you attempt to assinate Medhi Ali, and like the
Klingons move up to your rightful place as King of Commodore?
Commodore does advertise and advertise regularly in non-Amiga based
magazines. They also advertise in Amiga magazines, but not has heavily. I
constantly get letters telling me when and where Commodore will be
advertising and a copy of the advertisement they intend to publish. They
do market the Amiga computer!
Yes, I wish Commodore was like IBM and was able to flood the world with
product literature and advertisement. Of course I would not want Commodore
to be to much like IBM or we might have large quarterly losses like IBM
does.
My point is–finally Commodore is targeting a market they have a chance at.
Multimedia and Video is what the Amiga niche market is in the United
States. NO amount of money or advertising is going to break the PC lock
the US currently enjoys. The ball of wax is just to big.
My complaints with Commodore mostly have to do with the bloated CEO /
[ MORE ]
Mark,
Yah, I thought Commodore did the best they could with the CDTV introduction
(ie: the best they could do with an apparently limited advertising budget).
They introduced it into one city at a time, with corresponding print/radio
ads at the same time. This seemed like a pretty smart/cheap method to me.
kevin
[ continuation ]
President salaries and the lack of R&D funds to the engineering groups at
Commodore. I think that 2.04 was needlessly delayed due to the lack of
programmers and a lack of consistancy in the team throughout the project.
-mark=
– whappity whap whap… whap whap!!
I agree with yout about the delayed 2.04 release and lack of R&D funds,
let's hope R&D are working now at full speed for the new
"super-next-generation-Amigas" …
Regards,
Fernando.
Buenos Aires, Argentina.
NOTE: It seems that you like Whap (I never tried it, I access using CIM
2.0 in my 386, is it comparable?)
Whap!
CIM is a front end for live online CIS sessions. Whap! is automated CIS
forum/mail software that lets you set things up offline and then executes
your dedsired forum activities (messaging, library cataloging) and Email
automatically. Then you can read and reply to mail and messgaes offline
(without incurring connect time charges) and select files for downloading.
It is more along the line of TAPCI$ than CIM. A fully functioanl demo of
Whap! is available in the ATI/WHAP! library of AmigaTech. If you like
Whap!, the cost to register is $49.95 (or something like that). Whap! saved
me more than the registration fee in the first month of use!
Michael
I used to flame the Microware regularly on usenet. 🙂
It is no surprise that Byte printed it, it is a biased publication.
-mark=
– whappity whap whap… whap whap!!
I think Byte is a not-so-biased publication (it mentions Mac hard and soft,
OS/2, and SOMETIMES the Amiga) …until now.
If you think Byte is so biased… what about PC Mag. … it could have the
"Making it all make sense" statement on the cover to be the official
Microsoft journal!!!
I can't believe all the comments that my original message originated…
seems that the Amiga Forums in CIS are REALLY ACTIVE!
Regards,
Fernando
FC Video
Buenos Aires, Argentina.
… From the southest Amiga city
As long as Magazines have to ask for advertising it somewhat difficult to
ask a company for 10 pages of ads and then dog them in your magazine.
Depending on who answers to who, I think there's alternatives to 1)
printing glowing reviews, 2) not printing a review if it's not glowing, or
3) printing a bad review and losing the advertising. Why more magazines
don't invite rebuttals and statements from the competition, I don't know.
I think it would be fun and interesting, I'd buy a magazine if it showed me
more than one viewpoint. Yes, it's complicated to arbiter the order and
placement of each attack and counterattack, but I'm sure there's analogies
you could borrow from to do it, like a courtroom, or Robert's Rules of
Order, etc. If Gold Disk isn't willing to defend itself against the
product's failings in print, how can they object?
I like how ComputerWorld reviews software it has 4 different reviewers who
give their view and then lets the software or hardware vendor rebut, Also
it includes PC-magazine review and Infoworld reviews if they are applcable.
CBM and Phillips both have salespeople selling CDTV and CD-I in the Mall of
America in Minneapolis.
You should send this letter to Byte! AND C= although you should be aware
that C= does indeed advertise mostly in non-Amiga magazines.
Maybe what they should REALLY do is hire a few good writers, technical
or otherwise, to put out articles similar to the one you mention with the
only exception being that they would of course be touting the great
features of CDTV,Amiga-dos, et-al.
They have depended on the honesty of the publishing industry too long.
Your letter indicates that. C= is just to honest, I suppose. They give the
facts, and no bull. At least I havn't seen any comparable to what the other
platforms throw at the public.
Just MHO……
>>>>>Skip (SKP Graphics) <<<<<
Thanks for your opinions. And I've already read many CBM ads in PC
WORLD, wich are great, promoting the entire Amiga line and CDTV, ("Nothing
will sell you on Commodore Multimedia like a few minutes with Apple and
IBM").
But I think that another effort should be put on more "masive" magazines
such Byte and PC Mag. Here in Argentina (wich in computers is a U.S.
sub-market) Byte's and PC Mag. words are "Bible" words!.
Famous magazine editors and writers such as Jerry Pournelle, Bill Machrone,
Jim Seymour and W. F. Zachman must be the FIRST to receive, directly from
Commodore, the new products and announcements. A positive comment in one of
his columns will have BIG effects for the Amiga community!.
And that's what my original message was for: motivate good writers, wich
technically know the best aspects of CDTV to begin writing to Byte and make
them STOP ignoring CDTV.
I hope my message motived someone.
Fernando.
FC Video
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Motivation, huh. I suppose nothing motivates like free equipment and
lunch:-).
>>>>>Skip (SKP Graphics) <<<<<