#More PAR Updates!
35 messages in this thread
Hey There PAR Users!
More info on PAR software from DPS. They are gearing up for a 2.0 release
of the PAR software but they are not willing to commit to a date. The
current release (as of today, anyway) is 1.61. The major change over
previous versions is the support of the Micropolis drives in addition to
bug fixes. If you want the new version, call them or fax them and they
will send it to you.
Rick – On Autopilot from Vancouver
Rick, Any news as to what new features or improvements v2 will give over v1.61?
I just got the TBC IV today and am thoroughly impressed! I've got the
Micropolis 1G (2210a?) and have had no problem recording VHS video at quality
factor 23 and block limit 290. Only problem I have seen is that for block sizes
over 180, animations "skip" after looping several times during the animation.
First time through there is never a problem, just on the loops. Other than that
slight problem, the PAR/TBC-IV/Micropolis combination is a fantastic combo.
Terry Tabor
Terry,
I wasn't told exactly what will be in the 2.0 release – only that it will
be a major release. For those running on versions < 1.2 or so there has
been quite a bit of improvements – the ability to rename projects, moving
files, SMPTE, audio board support, support for the Micropolis drives, to
name but a few. I assume when they are finished with the enhancements
they will release the 2.0 version.
I'm envious of you all (can a Canadian say 'you all'?) with the Micropolis
drives. I'm an early convert so I have the Seagate – best quality I can
do for recorded video is 8. As far as your looping problem is concerned,
with my drive there is a noticible pause before looping so if I want my
anim to loop I just dup a few copies and join them.
Rick – On Autopilot from Vancouver
On 13-Jan-94 Rick Thornquist wrote: >I'm envious of you all (can a Canadian say
'you all'?) with the Micropolis >drives. I'm an early convert so I have the
Seagate – best quality I can [remainder deleted]
P.S. If you wanna sound authentic, it's pronounced "y'all" ;->
Luke,
I knew I'd get it wrong! <G> That's what a Canadian gets for trying to
talk American. I'll just stick to my fractured French.
Rick – On Autopilot from Vancouver
Rick, In sunny Florida I would agree that the proper phrase is "Y'all". But in
areas of the states closer to the Great White North (such as Ohio where I grew
up), the proper phrase is "You Guys". My brother who currently lives in
Minnesota claims that the phrase used in that part of the states is "You'se
Guys". On second thought, even in sunny Florida the phrase sometimes ends up
being "You Dudes". In Tennessee where I went to school, however, the standard
is "Y'all" or the one syllable version, "Yawl", which is often confused here in
Florida with a type of sailboat which usually is a "Ketch" anyway, but in
Tennessee, the term "Ketch" is usually reserved for someone who would make a
good wife.
Terry Tabor
Terry,
This reminds me of friends of mine from Nova Scotia who refer to any male
stranger as 'Buddy'- as in "Look at Buddy with the goofy hat". When I
first met them I thought that they knew all of these people and that all
of thier names were Buddy.
Side Note: there is a band from eastern Canada called 'Buddy Whatsizname
and the Other Fellers'. I love that name.
Rick
Rick, … which reminds me of my Aussie friends who refer to any female
(whether they know them or not) as "Sheila's"!
Terry Tabor
Wait a second here, I thought "you'se Guys" was a product of a Brooklyn
Accent as evidenced by the "East Side Kids" with Slip Mahoney and Satch.
Peter, I've never been to Brooklyn, but I think you might be right. Although I
think there's a slight pronunciation difference. The Minnesota,Wisconsin,
Michigan "You'se guys" the "You'se" is pronounced such that it rhymes with
"Goose", whereas, I think the Brooklyn "You'se" is pronounced such that it
rhymes with "Snooze". Just goes to show that English is a, shall I say,
'interesting' language.
Terry Tabor
>Just goes to show that English is a, shall I say, 'interesting'
>language.
I agree. Spanish is my native tongue but I learned English at an
early age, 6, so I don't have an accent. I DO find the English
language to be FILLED with idiosyncrasies that just don't make any
sense. Learning English for older Spanish people is MUCH harder than
I had first thought until I tried to teach them, that is when I
really started to notice the STRANGE quirks of the English language.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
(Any render time >0 needs acceleration.)
Tony, The only language other than English that I know is Latin. So
the first time I realized that English must be fairly strange was in
college when I observed some students trying to teach the "finer"
points of English to an Iranian student. He had an extremely hard
time understanding the various uses of the word "smoke". Like, "where
there's smoke there's fire", and "do you smoke", and "no smoking". Of
all the subtleties of the language they presented to him, the only
one he understood was "let's party", where he immediately said "Oh
yes! That's where everybody gets drunk!".
>He had an extremely hard time understanding the various uses of the word
>"smoke".
That really isn't too dificult of a concept. There are a few words that
cause MAJOR confusing to newcommers to English but I can't think of any
right now. Alot of these troublesome words sound like others but have a
completely different spelling or words that sound alike or are even
spelled the same with TOTALLY different meaning. Spanish, on the other
hand, is mostly spelled as it is pronounced and have fewer confusions.
>the only one he understood was "let's party"
I guess some people have different priorities from others. :^)
Terry,
Rick, In sunny Florida I would agree that the proper phrase is
"Y'all". But in areas of the states closer to the Great White North
(such as Ohio where I grew up), the proper phrase is "You Guys". My
brother who currently lives in Minnesota claims that the phrase used
in that part of the states is "You'se Guys". On second thought, even
in sunny Florida the phrase sometimes ends up being "You Dudes". In
Tennessee where I went to school, however, the standard is "Y'all" or
the one syllable version, "Yawl", which is often confused here in
Florida with a type of sailboat which usually is a "Ketch" anyway, but
in Tennessee, the term "Ketch" is usually reserved for someone who
would make a good wife.
Terry Tabor
As one that was "born and reared" in Nashville, I tend to agreee with your part
on "ywal". NEVER, but NEVER, when in the South address a group of guys AND
gals as "YOU GUYS". If ya do, you'll be sorry!
Yep! Learned that the hard way at Tenn. Tech. Univ. . . .
Terry Tabor
#: 37942 S9/Animation [AMIGAA]
25-Jan-94 19:28:13
Sb: #37887-More PAR Updates!
Fm: Terry L. Tabor 71170,1170
To: Luke H Montgomery 70274,2177
Yep! Learned that the hard way at Tenn. Tech. Univ. . . .
Terry Tabor
Well, I came back from 5 years at U of KS., and found that U.T. was the SAME
way… Sensitive, sensitive, sensitive. 🙂
Luke (Pat) Montgomery "REAL" E-mail: compvid@tyrell.net
CompVid Computer Video Graphics Services CompuServe: 70274,2177
Greater Kansas City Voice: (913) 780-0222
—————————————————————————–
There's no place like home… There's no place like home… There's no…
Terry,
at these (the highest/best quality?) setting digitizing from the TBCiv, what is
your approximate minutes/GB storage capacity when digitizing video. Is the
video useable as a video source ?
Thanks, brian
Brian, All of the samples I have digitized at the highest quality, I have used
much too high a block rate (i.e., 290 when the largest block size needed was
251) which reduces the ultimate amount of storage available. Still, on the
gigabyte drive, at a block rate of 290 and at the highest quality setting, the
file sizes I have been getting would indicate that you could get almost 5
minutes on the 1 Gig drive. But, and I am not sure if this is a software
problem or some real limita- tion, the PAR software for some reason limits
recording time to times far less than you can ultimately store. That is, it
will reduce your recording time to say 3 and a half minutes even though you
eventually record 5 or 6 minutes without ever deleting any files.
As far as the quality is concerned, I am VERY impressed. Keep in mind
however that so far I have only digitized from VHS using the composite input
and I am displaying on a composite monitor. But to my eye, even at
substantially reduced quality (16 instead of 23) the output is
indistinguishable from the input. And at that quality level, the drive will
hold more than 8 minutes! For simple animation playback I think the times are
even greater because it determines the quality level you need to represent your
image on a frame by frame basis whereas in recording it always records at the
quality factor you tell it.
This weekend I'm going to experiment with recording S-VHS. I'll report back
my findings.
Terry Tabor
Terry ,
thanks for your response. I can't believe that you can only get 5 or 6 minutes
per GB. I guess that part of this is due to the fact the whole drive isn't
used. If this is the case I will definitely wait till I can get the 1.6 GB
Micropolis drive instead of just 1GB. I just can't stand the thought of laying
out that much money for a GB drive that isn't a SCSI !. I like my equipment
purchases to be transportable to all three platforms. I guess you can store a
lot of frame stores in the extra space on a 1 GB drive!
Brian
Brian, Actually, the 5 or 6 minutes leaves lots of room for stills.
But before you the completely write off the 1 GB drive, remember that
the 5 or 6 minutes I was talking about is digitized video at the
highest quality and a block size which was overkill by about 20 %. I
think for single framing computer animations, I'll be able to get
alot more. How much? Don't know. I'm still renderring my first MINUTE
of animations since I got the darn thing. It used to be easy to
render enough to fill up my 16 MB of RAM with Toaster animations.
Guess I need a Screamer…(only in my dreams).
Just a wannabe here :^( Soon……..
Please tell us about the next Rev. :^)
I'm REAL close to getting a PAR w/ TBC IV and Microp. 2210A drive for
learning Homespun Digital Optical Effects and Rotoscoping.
Can anyone Please tell me like it is about the FMV capture quality of such
a setup ? I want to be able to maintain SVHS/VHS quality since this will
be the source mostly and the final desired result.
Can it replace the Toaster as a Framestore I/O device for still images
or time-lapse ? Thats about all I use my Toaster dongle for.
….John
John,
I might suggest that for experimenting and learning Homespun Digital
Optical Effects and Rotoscoping you look into getting a V-Lab. I've been
having great fun and learning much with V-lab. I've gotten an Imagine
virtual aircraft to fly through video clouds, and have experimented with
synchronizing the movements of Imagine's virtual camera with the movements
of a hand held video shot for a very realistic composite.
I will eventually move up to a PAR type system. But I find the $400 price
of V-lab an easily justified tuition that allows me to experiment and
develop new techniques with worrying about a large investment. Now, once I
feel I have mastered "Digital Optical Effects 101" and am ready to move on
then, I'll invest the $2500-$3000 needed for you lucky PAR owners.
…AutoPilot Engaged…
-Paul-
Paul,
I hope there are some examples of the V-Lab's output on your AG submission???
Don't worry; you're in fine shape on submitting something, but I'd LOVE to see
something that the V-Lab captured. I've been toying with the idea of getting
one for several months now…
Jerry
Jerry,
Yep, there are two Imagine plus V-lab video shots. I also think the
Lightwave users will find some of Imagine 2.9's new abilities interesting.
I have run into one minor snag. I on some of the under water shots I
seem to have a picked a blue green color that VHS hates (there is a lot of
yellow/green fringing). I did not notice it since it did not show up on my
composite monitor while recording, only later on playback. I guess I'll
experiment and re-render the shots I actually use in this project. But for
now, when you make your master if you could cut down on the chroma a bit
it will be OK. I don't feel TOO bad about this since I've heard that the
SeaQuest team had a similar problem with there early shots. I'll have to
ask John what RGB settings he uses.
…AutoPilot Engaged…
-Paul-
Paul,
I look forward to seeing the V-Lab/Imagine stuff, and will turn down the chroma
a touch on those fringing shots. The latest VTU has some pretty detailed
settings listed for the Seaquest shots…
Jerry
Jerry,
I am putting the tape together this weekend. You should see it sometime
next week. There is not as much as last time, but I think it will be
interesting to all the others. And there is not a one space space shot in
the lot! 😉
With all I am learning about using real video captured with Vlab in my
renders and the soon to arrive Imagine 3.0 just wait until the *next*
summer edition. 🙂
BTW Peter mentioned $12.50. Is that the correct amount this time?
…AutoPilot Engaged…
-Paul-
Yes, $12.50 is correct, Paul.
Jerry
OK you'll get one of my first checks printed from Quicken running on
Emplant. 🙂
…AutoPilot Engaged…
-Paul-
John,
That's all the news on the next rev that I have.
The rotoscoping quality of the Micropolis drives is supposed to be quite
good – I have a Seagate and it's OK but you can see some artifacting. It
might be wise for somebody to make you a videotape to show you how good it
is.
You can use the PAR as a framestore I/O device. The drive will hold
thousands of framestores.
Rick – On Autopilot from Vancouver
Hi Rick!
I'm gettin ready to get a PAR/TBC IV, so I appreciate the alert on the software
update…
Have you heard of any plans for support of the new "A/V Drives" from Maxtor, I
think. Or was it Micropolis? They are 1GB drives with hot access & I/O times…
BTW, what was this I heard about the Seagate drives automagically doing a park
every 120 seconds??? Seems that would really screw things up for segments over
120 secs!
I'm goin nuts trying to decide on which IDE to get with my the new PAR…
Too bad they haven't developed a SCSI-2 version… 🙂
Regards
Luke (Pat) Montgomery "REAL" E-mail: compvid@tyrell.net
CompVid Computer Video Graphics Services CompuServe: 70274,2177
Greater Kansas City Voice: (913) 780-0222
—————————————————————————–
There's no place like home… There's no place like home… There's no…
Luke,
My news is that DPS is now supporting the Micropolis as the drive of
choice. I have no news of any other drives being supported. You can, of
course, use the old Seagates.
You know, I heard about this head parking thing awhile back. I actually
don't know if it is true or not – my anims scarcely get to 10 or 15
seconds never mind 2 minutes.
When the Screamer is released that may be a different story…
Rick – On Autopilot from Vancouver
Thanks Rick… I know what you mean about those loooong anims… Who's got the
time without a Screamer?
Regards,
Luke (Pat) Montgomery "REAL" E-mail: compvid@tyrell.net
CompVid Computer Video Graphics Services CompuServe: 70274,2177
Greater Kansas City Voice: (913) 780-0222
—————————————————————————–
There's no place like home… There's no place like home… There's no…
>I heard about this head parking thing awhile back. I actually don't know
>if it is true or not
Yes, the 3655 Seagate parks its head every 2 minutes so when playing back
or scoping there is a skip when the head parks.
>my anims scarcely get to 10 or 15 seconds never mind 2 minutes.
True, most people never make anims 2 minutes long but some may rotoscope
something that long easily.
>When the Screamer is released that may be a different story…
You sure? I seem to have outgrown every system I have had and even though
the Screamer is a Massive PowerHouse I am sure we will finally outgrow it
too. With all that horsepower we will want to add MORE lights and MORE
objects, then we will want to Trace shadows, ect…
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
(Any render time >0 needs acceleration.)
Tony,
All of what you say is right on.
Rick – On Autopilot from Vancouver
Has anyone actually asked DPS about a version that supports SCSI drives ? I
guess the limits of the IDE i/f data rates are what make only a percentage of
the drive available for animations.
Brian