#Toaster Overuse
42 messages in this thread
Just got a tape in from a client. He was not satisfied with the work
done on the tape by a local post house.
Took a look. The post house – proud owners of a Toaster – had pulled
out ALL the stops. Think they had used every EFX in their Toaster
4000. in a 20 minute tape. It was an eye bothering show. You were so
overwhelmed by the EFX that there was no room left to look and listen
to what the client was trying to get over.
Toaster EFX are excellent and add much to a production. However –
they should be used with discretion and finesse. Not smeared on with
a heavy spade. Must admit I learned a lot about what NOT to do in
seeing that tape.
Obviously, they're not adherents to the K.I.S.S. principle.
"Keep It Simple, Stupid!"
One of the tougher things to learn in the video business.
-Pat "Cruising the North Coast
on Autopilot"
You may have something Pat.
The problem seems to lie with the "new" users of Toaster I think. They
are putting more of "See…What I can do" – rather than the client's
message, on to the tapes. It's rather like the person who has just
got his/her new camcorder. Lots and lots of "trombone EFX" with
overuse of the zoom lens. (Plus the seasick EFX from an unsteady
camera platform).
Would agree with your KISS assessment. However would like to add the
ambition of delivery the highest QUALITY video you are able. While
again, many articles, books, instruction sheets are written about
Lightwave – and its Gee Whiz EFX, not much attention seems to be
given to high quality titles – which I think are the bread-and-butter
of much post work. With "Montage" software, quite classy work can be
done – even up to the middle range Chyron standard.
Actually, the "effect Fever" syndrome isn't limited to Toaster users.
Many of the students we run through our broadcasting curriculm tend to
do the same thing with the production switcher; every efrfect they
can find, they *must* use so as to prove their virtuosity. THe end
product usually makes me want to retch.
So you run the little sods thru' a broadcast course. Now I know where
all this Flash Bang Gee Whiz stuff comes from Pat! <g>.
Yes… it makes me pretty sick too. Latest fad is the simulated hand
held camera EFX. Wobble the camera about while tilting or panning.
Each cut to be 0.01 seconds – and a bit out of focus. Make the viewer
think he/she is seeing a REAL message from REAL people – other than
the calculated attack on our nervous systems – arranged by Madison
Avenue.
We too have a Switcher as well as Toaster. One of our younger editors
just cannot keep his blasted hands off it. I usually lock it offline
when he is around. Now we have just got Toaster 4000 he thinks the
world waits for his compositions on the EFX bus etc.
Ah me!…. Was educated in the film industry… circa. Hitchcock, so
am very antiquated in the ways and means of overused EFX.
Oh ghod, that "wobble-shot" effect makes me reach for the Dramamine.
Nothing more than an affectation, IMHO.
It is amazing how the neophytes become so enamored of all the "toys",
isn't it. You'd think they'd never seen any of the classics.
'Course, nowadays, I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case.
You're not antiquated, the FNGs simply have to learn the rules and
learn when they can break 'em.
-Pat "Cruising the North Coast
on Autopilot"
I try very hard to get feedback from our clients. Did the tape do what
would intended ? Did it instruct/inform – and how well ? What did we
do right/wrong? Most clients have no mechanism for getting this
info' – and quite a few are so dull whitted that they do not know the
tape is just a tool…. they think that it should produce results –
without any human effort on their part.
In the world of commercials. As we agree, most are overdone in both
camera and post EFX. I do suppose they sell more for the sponsor –
or why the big bucks. Strangely enough, one of the most effective
commercials ever made used straight camera work – plus a wide angle
lens. This was the "Where's the BEEF?" commercial of a few years ago.
It was a terrific surprise both to producer and sponsor!
The tecnique requires RESTRAINT. The only way to learn is to take away
quite a lot of the EFX tools, then make the novice use just camera
and cuts only type editing. We need more books in the hands of
Toaster users, which instruct on the "art" of application – rather
than how to get more astounding Gee Whiz EFX.
Hilary, I agree with most everything you way. Even though I work for
a PBS affiliate, I do now what constitues good work on spots and
segments. Unfortunately, mostof the kids going through the program
now have grown up with MTV, and go to great lengths to emulate the
videos, complete with quick cuts, shaking camera and hundreds of
effects per minute. Maybe we should force feed them classic films
for a semester or two?
Have you ever tried to talk "broadcast traditions" to a Public Access
guy? They prefer no tripods, complete shows with posterization, and
interviews with a tiny lav.
There is one show that airs here, where two guy talk about movies
(that they don't see, just whether they have any interest in seeing
it) — while eating their lunch, with one static camera shot (the
security cam), and they type messages with the B-Titlers editing
screen on-air.
Can't wait to see what they would do with a Toaster ;-).
Some of these people come from an arts background, to them this is art
and anything goes. People from a broadcast background, can't accept
their breaking all the broadcast rules.
Look at some of what NewTek proposes — they are talking right to
this arts group. At times you would have thought that NewTek was
anti-Traditional Broadcast. With the Screamer however, you can see
that this is not true (the Screamer seems aimed right at
Broadcasters).
I think the Screamer is aired at everyone.. Think about it. If you
wanted to set up a little 3D house, you would probably want to get a
few Toasters to render with. What would you rather buy? 3 Decked out
Toasters or a Screamer?
I've also talked to people that want to pool resources and share a
Screamer. Boy, I wonder how they will decide who gets to have the
Screamer at their house?
The Screamer is aimed at everyone — I think not… When people talk
about the Screamer, what are they comparing it to? I don't think
that SGI is a common household acronym. Having the Toaster used on
seaQuest, doesn't impress the wedding video consumer. Who cares that
the Toaster won an Emmy!
"The Screamer was designed for the LightWave guy who gets pretty serious.
If you look at our Hollywood users, most of them started out as a normal
Toaster guy. They weren't famous 3D people."
-Paul Montgomery
VTU October/November 1993 p62
The Professional Toaster User is not the Personal Video Production
guy. He is more akin to John Gross than Wil Wheaton. His world is
based in the Broadcast Specifications. He knows that the Toaster is
up to specs, and insists that it be used on-air! The Screamer will
make LightWave compete with the speed found in other "broadcast"
boxes.
Note: I tried replacing John Gross with another name,
but the argument didn't work as well. 😉
I should have said that the Screamer is aimed at everyone who is
using LightWave to make money. I believe that a professional Toaster
user is anyone who makes money by creating things on the Toaster. A
wedding videographer using the Toaster is a professional Toaster
user. Perhaps a distinction needs to be made between Professional
broadcast Toaster users and non-broadcast Pro Toaster users?
You're right! I think that there are alot of different Toaster User
levels, as there are ways to use the Toaster. (A wedding
videographer using the Toaster "beams-in the couple at the alter" is
a professional Toaster user. I'll have to think about that one.)
When I think about it, John, I guess I am reacting to how NewTek is
marketing. For example the last Revolution tape introducing the
Toaster 4000, targeted the be your own boss — get your VHS camcorder
and go! crowd. At NAB, some people had felt that NewTek still was in
the Non-Broadcast mode, if not anti-Broadcast. The introduction of
the Screamer, put to rest my fears that NewTek was abandoning the
Broadcast Market.
Reading some of the interviews in VTU also helped. You can see why
NewTek produced this last tape. They were speaking to their "Busy
Guy". And perhaps continued this idea abit to far at NAB.
NewTek needs to find a way to talk to all these groups. It is no
surprise that the Toaster is used in Broadcast. Broadcasters, put it
there! Broadcasters who did not care that it was a DTV platform —
it's spec'd out OK, so use it! How else do Revolutions start!
I almost DIED the other night while watching a taping of a Cable
Access show I did the Opening Anim for(The Chronic Rift), they were
"On Location" and Shooting Hand Held on VHS!!!!!! My jaw hit the
ground. They are also fond of Laveliers too. I can't believe the
Cable Compay broadcasts this stuff!!!!! I'm thinking more and more of
doing a Show with some Friends after seeing what these folks are
getting away with.
>>They are also fond of Laveliers too. I can't believe the Cable Compay
broadcasts this stuff!!!!!<<
PMJI, but what is this reference to lavaliers? Are they using them as handheld
mics?
You probably know that the cable company has no choice in broadcasting this
stuff. Its the law. <g>
Alan
Nope didn't realize that it was the LAW that the Cable Company had to
broadcast Material that didn't meet a certain Signal quality limit.
The cable company is required to provide public access channels by the
FCC and/or the local cable franchise. The cable company may not
control the content of the program except for obsenity and a few
other very minor things which I have forgotten about.
They usually can refuse to accept a program which does not meet
certain technical standards. However, handheld VHS isn't bad enough
to refuse. The companies I am familiar with usually refused
programing with poor sync, or excessive audio or video levels.
The concept here is a sort of "freedom of the press" carried to
excess. If you want to produce a 30 minute program looking at a
flower pot, you can. If you want to produce a program using every
Toaster effect, you can. It doesn't have to be good television to be
cablecast.
EEEEEK! Thanx for the info Alan. I would have thought that Handheld
VHS when Edited then Dubbed to 3/4" would have all kinds of Wonderful
Synch problems. When I gave them the tape of the opening Animation on
it I had put 45 seconds of Colors Bars for them to Synch to, I
needn't have bothered. I guess I should look into Cable Access
programming some more. Thanx for the info
Alan,
PMFJI, but does that mean if I make a video of some local event in
this town of 5000, and want to have it played on the local cable
channel, that they have to let me? I asked about this a while back,
and was told that they didn't do that.
I thought it was kinda wierd that I couldn't do a nice community-service
type spot. They used to show local sporting events the next day, but they
don't anymore. Just as well, kinda, as the video was pretty poor.
Is this stuff supposed to be non-commercial, I assume? Anybody know the
CFR volume number so I can look it up? I guess I'd better go down to the
town hall and see how the contract reads.
Thanks for the info.
… Nate.
You are so right Joe. In my opinion, film and video have purposes.
To entertain, to inform, to instruct – and sometimes provoke! Being
somewhat ancient, I just cannot understand how the overuse of EFX –
bad camera work – and the like, can perform any of the functions
effectively. I am simply amazed that sponsors will buy this rubbish
to promote their product/services. It must be effective somewhere,
and do some good for their sales, otherwise why pay huge bucks for
the stuff. Maybe it is directed at one segment – those whose
attention spsan is short and requires fast motion on the tube, with a
noisy soundtrack.
Would like to see a book published that shows HOW to use the Toaster
with restraint and style.
Be good…… Hilary
North Coast! Hey, which one? I'm in Ohio, near Toledo. Drop a line
if you're nearby.
Saginaw, Michigan, actually.
They will learn, in time, what works and what does not. Effects are
cool, but as you said you can't loose the *communication message*. I
find that when the raw footage is good — the effects are very
limited — "a smooth fade perhaps". Five stills for a :30, —
another SFX spot.
I tend to review after a four week period — did I do good? Also
noting what the networks are doing also helps to generate ideas. The
results are that my "look" changes alot, though my peers can spot
my stuff regardless. That's good in my book.
There's a really GOOD reason why you can find the smooth fade effect
on every bank!
I recently saw a WEDDING video that featured virtually every DVE the
Toaster had to offer. The normally slow, sentimental photo montage
at the beginning of the tape went from the first photo to the second
via DRIP, shortly thereafter the big, orange arrow, and it wasn't
long before the pitcher threw the baseball into another photo…
I've seen a wedding video where the bride and groom are 'beamed' into
their spots in front of the alter. OUCH!
Ooo! Ooo!!! Maybe we should collect this stuff for a "Toaster
Abuser" tape – sorta the "Beavis and Butthead" entertainment for
Toaster Users!
Yeah! That's it! With a whole bunch of lens flare on the keyed
graphics 🙂 And a new font for every word…..
NONONONONONONNONO A new Font for each LETTER, and each letter a
Different Color too. And use NTSC ILLEGAL colors too!!!!
I have a demo tape right now from a company that produces auto spots
that consist nearly _exclusively_ of recognizable Toaster DVE's. I
guess these 'hard sell' commercials are a _little_ more appropriate
for such than sentimental weddings, but still ridiculous, IMHO.
I've been doing quite a few car spots lately, and do get some pretty
nice uses out of the T4000's 'flash of light' transitions, but the
VAST majority of all my transitions are still cuts and dissolves.
When I play something back and it instantly strikes me as a
transition from one shot or screen to the next, I redo it right
then. I'll generally use the flash of light when a big prices slams
onto the screen along with a big thud of a sound effect, or something
similar.
>I've been doing quite a few car spots lately, and do get some pretty nice
>uses out of the T4000's 'flash of light' transitions, but the VAST
Now cut that out! Just when I think the mute button is the most wonderful
invention in the world and I can enjoy 2 minutes of quiet, somebody has to
do these 1,000,000 candle flashbulb transitions that make me think we're
under nuclear attack. How incredibly distracting! 😉
Seriously, the first time I saw that type transition was on one of
those obnoxious car commercials. I just about fell out of my chair
laughing–realizing that someone had finally found a way to overcome
the power of the mute button. Right now, they really are hard to
ignore. I see that Magnovox has a TV that limits sound levels for
all material. I wonder if they'll come up with a circuit to do the
same for video while the mute button is on? Just a matter of time…
<<< Now cut that out! Just when I think the mute button is the most
wonderful invention in the world and I can enjoy 2 minutes of quiet,
somebody has to do these 1,000,000 candle flashbulb transitions that
make me think we're under nuclear attack. How incredibly
distracting! 😉 >>>
Yeah, I know what you mean! As a matter of fact, occasionally the ad
agent will give me instructions to 'make this one particularly
obnoxious…' BUT, even with instructions like that, it's _still_
possible to use only transitions that truly fit the genre of the
commercial, and become an integral part of the production, as opposed
to looking like a demo of Toaster EFX.
If they were both Trekker's it would make SMOE sense having them
"Beam" aboard"
Just got back from Vegas. Every hotel now has their video promos
running all over the place. Most of the stuff was just sickening,
and a few were great. Then again, if quickly getting attention is
your only priority, then they were appropriate. Just don't stare at
the toobs too long! 8{)
PMJI, but I have a hotel chain as a client for some print stuff and
I'm starting to expose them to the possibilities of multimedia and
video. Could you tell me what kind of stuff they had on the promos
and where they used them?
Barbara,
The in-hotel video that I saw all of was at the Imperial Palace. It was
your basic segmented production, with each area of the hotel (cheap rooms,
nice rooms, suites, resturaunts, bars, casino, shops, etc) having it's own
little section. It wasn't too bad, but overused pans, cutting between
them. One talking head and two customer type talents were shown, with the
talking head doing a description of each area, either on-camera, or off
when the talents were 'enjoying' the facilities. All 3 were female, for
what that's worth.
Most of the shots were pretty wide, to make everything look a little
bigger, I suppose. Very little graphics and titling were present, and the
vast majority of the transitions were lap dissolves. Most should've been
cuts, IMHO. It played in several locations, and on one of the in-room
channels as well. Not too bad, overall.
In other places (like monitors out front, in the lobby, and I assume on
the room cable) of a lot of places had some really horrendous stuff
playing. Big arrows and such at every turn. One of the funky fonts in
2.0 was always on, usually just scrolled or cut in and out.
Most of the stuff looked like it was shot on 3/4" or maybe Hi8, and was
down 2. Of the 10 or so I noticed, at least 6 were Toaster, and the
others done on other Switchers/CG's. I guess bad taste isn't a Toaster
thing, as the quality of what I saw was pretty well evenly mixed.
If you need any more info, let me know.
… Nate.
Nate,
Thanks for your detailed message. I'm hoping to interest my client into
some interactive stuff for their lobbies and it's useful to hear about
what else is out there in the hotel world.
The process should take some time, though, as there is a great deal of
client education to get through!
Thanks again for your help.
Barbara.
Nice to hear from you once again John.
Think that one of the problems maybe in the many instructional type
books and articles published on the Toaster. They seem to stress the
"Gee Whiz" EFX. There is also some pull from network type TV – where
often EFX are used to cover defects in both story and acting.
We have just installed the Toaster 4000 in our Ye Olde Amiga 2000 –
and like it. When we can afford it will get an Amiga 4000 – and pop
it in.
What I miss in the Toaster Manual – are diagrams with labels. It's a
pity that just under a diagram of buttons etc. there is not the
titles of those buttons – plus the same name is used to head the
descriptive paragraph on the page. After ploughing thru' the manual,
I made up my own diagrams with button labels – for a few of the
operative functions. It is a great help as a reminder – hanging on
the edit console in front of me. Anyone ready to publish a short
brochure of such diagrams would have a ready market I think.
Mmmm,
not a bad idea…
JG
I had a Toaster abused customer who I got (having been tipped ahead
of time) by not admitting ot owning a Toaster. They had become so
gun shy they associated it with the equipment and not the person(s).
That production house is now out of business, BTW.
Nice to hear from you again Wayne. Yes… the overuse of Toaster
can do a lot of harm to folk who are more educated in the use of the
visual message.
Just completed a 29 min. travel bit. Only used – I think – three of
the EFX in Toaster 4000. Ones that fitted the story line – to the
point that they are hardly noticeable. Client pleased…