Amiga's "image"
49 messages in this thread
I met a young programmer about a year ago when we both had new Amigas – we
shared our problems for a couple of months and then went our separate ways. Ran
into him again yesterday and didn't recognize him.
When I first met him, he had an impressive beard, never wore a tie, and
despised the "establishment". Yesterday, the beard was gone and he was
immaculate in suit, shirt, tie and polished shoes – pure IBM! The clothes were
mandatory for a new job (an offer he couldn't refuse) – losing the beard was
his own idea when he saw that all his bosses were clean-shaven.
He remarked that CBM and the software developers don't seem to know that
"image" is crucial in most large corporations, and send the Amiga out into the
business world without a hope of being accepted. The standard Workbench colors
look out of place in a sombre environment and make the Amiga look like an
arcade machine, the "GURU" (instead of a simple "fatal error" message) is pure
"hacker" and messages like "Looking for fonts – are you there, fonts?" are just
childish. He singled out "Acquisition" as a prize example of what's wrong with
Amiga "business" software.
Of course, ex-hackers (like ex-smokers) are sometimes pretty hard on those who
haven't "reformed", but it's an interesting idea.
I think it's pretty close to the truth. Apple would not be
where it is today without the right image. You can have the best
mouse trap in the world; but if it's painted the wrong colour
nobody will buy it. And that's a sad fact of life and business.
Michael
There's a lot of truth to what he says (although I like the "looking
for fonts" message). Amiga still has some growing to do before it will make it
into the business world (and thus "legitimize" Commodore as a real player in
the industry). Image plays a big part in corporate buying habits and, right
now, Commodore doesn't have any.
Oh well,
David Masterson
He's quite right. CBM is a game company, though and through. Amiga was also
formed to be a game company. That's kind of a sorry way to try and punch a
reasonable hole in the business market. And he's also right about the GURU and
the sorry way some programs approach businessmen. I don't see a solution, but I
sure do see the problem. –Ben–
Ben,
In the USA you mean. In Europe, Commodore is thought of as a business
computer company. Their name, after all, is Commodore Business Machines.
Many years ago, Commodore used to manufacture office calculators, hence the
"Business Machines" in the name. Funny, all the big companies used to buy CBM
calculators …
Remember the "Pet"? The one with the 9-inch upper-case-only display and the
keyboard with "keys" that didn't move?? Came with 4K, but you could expand it
to 8K for only $200 extra??? CBM introduced it in 1977.
That was the year another company called "International Business Machines"
introduced its System 3 mainframes. A lot of large corporations made the
change – some of them had gone from IBM cards and unit-record equipment to a
650 in 1955, or a 1401 in 1960, or a 360 in 1964 or a 370 in 1970. Habits like
that are hard to break, and a lot of the people who make the buying decisions
in big companies can't think about "computers" without immediately thinking
"IBM".
Now, if one of them needed a bunch of office calculators, a really old Vice
President or Senior Manager might say, "Hey, what about CBM?"…
Vince,
One of the reasons they kept going with the Big Blue Monolith was that they
were locked in to the software. Unfortunately, they still do it, and in the
small computer stuff too. Really too bad.
BTW, the PET had upper/lower case as well, you just had to POKE it in the
right place. <smile>
Regards, Larry.
Larry,
Getting "locked into" the software is a factor in IBM's success with the large
corporations, but their instinct for what we used to call "office politics" has
a lot to do with it. Anyone who has worked for a really big company can tell
you that people who know how to "suck up" to the boss sometimes get promoted
before people with better qualifications – and that the company with the best
hardware and software doesn't always get the contract.
I don't have much respect for IBM's philosophy – and certainly wasn't defending
them! Vic Wagner seemed to be suggesting that Commodore is regarded as a
business computer company in Europe because they have the words "Business
Machines" in their name. He probably didn't mean it that way, but it struck me
as comical, and I couldn't resist.
Vince
… and then IBM sucked up InTel… then they _really_ sucked….
Good one, Ben! That one-liner congers up vivid images much the same as when the
word "barf" is used in print. You do make for colorful copy.
Ted
Ben,
.. and can you imagine how insufferable IBM would be today if they'd also
"sucked up" Microsoft? I assume they tried – letting an outside firm write an
operating system was a big switch in policy for them.
Vince
Vince,
No, I wasn't suggesting that was the reason. I was just pointing out that
the USA isn't the ONLY market in the world. Just because it doesn't work here
doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea for a company that has international
markets.
Vince,
Hmmm, your friend makes some good points…but I think I'll keep my
beard, thankyouverymuch. 8^) Seriously, his comments on image are
right-on. It seems that Amy is viewed (when viewed at all) by the
business-computing community as a games and graphics machine–one that
you play with at home, not work on at the office. The A500 is being
marketed primarily as a home computer, which it is, but where is the
alternative marketing for the A2000? Those A500 ads are establishing an
image for the entire Amiga line, an image which is only reinforced by
such promotions as the C64-to-Amiga upgrade packages. "The Amiga is for
kids, hobbyists, and artists." Now, I think Amy can enjoy long-term
success (selling to kids, hobbyists, and artists) without making much
headway in the business community. I certainly didn't get my Amiga for
its business potential–I'm a hobbyist. But business is where the big
sales (and, thus, the big BUCKS) are at, so you'd think that a company
as profit-starved as CBM has recently been would at least make some
moves (not just weak handwaves) in that direction.
On the other hand I like Amy's eccentricities, such as the GURU, and
I really like the bright colors. They make Amy stand out in the crowd.
I'd much rather see Amy change the business world than have the business
world change Amy into another Incredibly Boring Machine. We've already
got millions of those. The question is, how do we get our foot inside
the door so that we can then kick it open?
Dave
First, you change the screen colors — no problem, can be done with
preferences, and _should be_ by any salesperson who wants to sell to a business
person. Secondly, one prepares a demo setup consisting of programs that have a
_serious_ outlook… good possibilities for this are Analyze!, Superbase (if
you can hide the flipping dongle), and Scribble. These programs all share
several important things for a business buyer. They are not threatening. In the
case of the spreadsheet and the word processor, they are downright pedestrian,
and if there is any computer experience at all on the part of the buyer, will
give said buyer a nice, homey feeling. "Gee! I can run that!" Superbase because
it's _really_ powerful, given the interface method they use, _and_ it's
businesslike… unlike some of the other entries. The GURU can be eliminated by
a program called "GOMF", which may be available here… it's quite nice, and
provides plain english explanations of whatever would have called up the GURU,
while allowing you to attempt to recover the system — you can usually avoid
the GURU with it, unless the program has _completely_ lost it's marbles… in
which case you might not get a GURU, but a reset. Things like the "Looking for
fons… are u there, fonts?" messages can be avoided in demos by simply NOT
USING programs that do such inane things… like notepad (Which stinks, anyway,
and probably wouldn't impress a businessman) The Amiga _could_ be sold as a
business machine, just as it is — all you really need is a little planning and
some reasonable user-expertise on the part of the salesperson. Of course, all
of this is too much to ask of CBM… they couldn't market their way out of a
cobweb. Set up diskettes for salespeople to use! Preposterous! <sigh> –Ben–
Ben,
Yes, GOMF is a very nice piece of work; I've had it installed for
about a month now, and it's intercepted everything except for a few
lockups (one of which was caused by my own carelessness with your
SetPri, also a very nice piece of work). Something like GOMF should've
been part of the OS to begin with.
As for the Amiga being presented as a business machine, I can't
disagree with you that it could and should be done. (Substitute
WordPerfect for Scribble! and you've got an even more impressive
package.) But CBM ain't doing it, so the burden falls completely to the
individual dealer…and it doesn't belong there. Sure, a good dealer
with a creative, informed staff ought to be able to work up a good
presentation and so sell some machines into the business market. But
not all dealers are capable or even interested in that. And without a
clear directive from above, those good dealers will just be isolated
cases anyway. IBM doesn't dominate the micro business market because of
its dealerships; it dominates because the boys in Boca Raton know how to
market the IBM name and the IBM image.
I guess we're just singin' the same old song again. Amy will never
make it as a business computer unless/until the folks in charge at
Commodore start working their collective ass off to change the way they
are perceived in the business computing community. Some serious B2000
advertising would be a start. So would some well-put-together dealer
demo packages, as you say. Local business-oriented shows, presented
jointly by dealers and CBM (with real live Commodore reps available for
presentation and Q&A sessions), might do some good as well. Apple holds
shows of that type every few months in my area (Detroit). Look at where
Apple was 2 years ago, and where they are now. CBM could learn a thing
or two from them.
"You gotta spend money to make money."
Dave
"B2000" ? thanks for the kind words on SetPri… sure can tie you in a knot,
can't it? <grin> CBM is a hard case. They need a visit from a "pressure" group.
Maybe I should take my students on a trip…
The A2000 was the original German made machine. It had design problems. The
B2000 is the machine Haynie designed and the machine being sold here in the US.
The A2000 is no longer being made — Germany is now also producing B2000s.
Ben,
The first thing I did when I got my 2000 home was, naturally, pop the
lid. On the motherboard it says "B2000," along with some other stuff,
including Dave Haynie and someone else's name. I suppose they used
"B2000" to distinguish between the West Chester version and the German
one.
Pressure group, eh? <grin> While you and your students are…umm…
applying the pressure, I could serenade CBM with a song:
"I'm singin' in the rain,
Just (OOMPH!) singin' in the (THWACK!) rain.
What a (SPLAT!) glorious feeling,
I'm (SMASH!! BANG!! BASH!!) happy again!"
I think we may have something here. 8^)
Dave
The reason I wouldn't substitute Wp for scribble is that it's a very large
sized package — hard to jam WP, Anaylize, and Superbase onto one disk…
Scribble fits, with dictionary. I'd certainly keep WP around, and point at it
at the appropriate time and say "We have that too… your IBM users can walk
right in and work". Still waiting on WP here… almost bought it but it needs
too much work yet, and obviously they are listening to the users and doing the
changes required. When it fits, We'll start using it. In the meantime, (get
this) I wrote a text processor that uses dot commands so that I could have
table of contents, index, glossary, and the std justification stuff. The things
we have to go through! –Ben–
Just a quick comment on WordPerfect — I was one of the early
purchasers (backordered before the package was released), largely
because the machine I have at work runs it. I concur with the
somewhat buggy comment, but I will also comment that I've been
using it quite sucessfully (with file transfers to the machine
at work and back). Of course, I have a high tolerance for the
Guru …
\ex
Ben,
Ah, it never occured to me that you would put all three packages on
one disk. Duh…. Makes sense. How about multitasking? Can you run
any two of 'em at the same time on a 1Meg machine and still have room
left to work in? That might turn a few heads.
Yeah, WordPerfect still has some rough edges, but it's getting there.
I seem to keep putting my foot in my mouth when the subject turns to WP,
so I'm not gonna say any more about it. 8^)
I wrote my own DEC 10 word processor when I was in college, also
using dot commands, just to see how well I could do it. Not anywhere
near as fancy as yours, tho–just margins, justification, line spacing,
word wrap, and page breaks. The stuff I do for myself tends to be very
utilitarian. Once I get PowerWindows 2.0, tho, I'll start adding some
friendlier stuff…like menus. <Grin>
Dave
Not only do they all fit on one disk, and that of course being a very good way
to show them off, but they do run together in a 1meg machine — all _three_ of
them — AND since they are all three good amiga software, they all Wait() when
not busy, so they run at full bore… Furthermore, You can cut from Scribble,
paste into Anaylize, all while SuperBase is dumping a formatted report, one of
the myriad clocks is running… you can alos run OnLine2.0 in this mess, as it
waits also, but you can't fit it on the same floppy. If you have a machine with
1.5 meg and a hard drive, though, you can _really_ get crazy! –Ben–
Ben,
That's neat. I don't have any of those packages, which is why I
asked. On my machine (currently at 3 Megs but, alas, no HD yet) I
always have a TxEd window available, usually have Aterm up and ready
(especially now that I've got a few days off and can yak till the cows
come home), and often have Sculpt-3D or Sonix or some game going as
well. That in addition to a sizeable vd0:c directory and a healthy Facc
II cache. It was instant claustrophobia when I had to send my fast RAM
out for repair a few months ago. There's just no way I could be
comfortable on a single-tasking 640K PClone. Ugh, just the thought of
it makes my hands go clammy.
Did you read the latest declaration from Lord Pournelle? It's in the
November Byte. His Egoness, referring to OS/2, declares, "The fact is
that what everyone wants is not multitasking, with its inevitable
slowdown of what you're doing in the foreground, but multiprocessing,
with more than one CPU on the bus." Gak!! I'd say that Sir Know-It-All
has never seen your SetPri in action. Give me multiprocessing, yes,
please, but not at the expense of multitasking. "Mama, don't take my
Kodachrome away!" Well, at least Jumpin' Jer doesn't foam at the mouth
over OS/2. Maybe he's actually _seen_ it. 8^)
Dave
You know what they say about Poor-smell: "He writes great fiction, but it's
too bad it has to be in Byte, too." Or in whatever other magazines he writes
for, too.
That's what they get paid for — In"smell"ing up the place. <grin>
–Gabe
Jerry took what was a healthy respect for him in Sci-fi and turned it into
stomach wrenching distaste with his idiotic attitude about computers. Barf! I'd
like to SetPri him to about -128…., –Ben–
Ben,
Yup, that'd certainly put our boy in his place. "Sure, Jer, we plan
on running another of your articles…we're just waiting for a month
when we don't get any other submissions." 8^)
Dave
P.S. In the case of Byte, make that emissions.
"… not multitasking, with its inevitable slowdown of what you're doing in the
foreground, but multiprocessing, with more than one CPU on the bus."
<Sigh> You know, I didn't mind Jerry's column when it first started; in fact,
I rather enjoyed it. He was just another "user", someone who really didn't
understand computers and had to ask for help (and he admitted it). I could
deal with that. But lately, he's gotten to know all about computers and is
beginning to hand out pronouncements of technical fact…. while in reality he
apparently STILL doesn't understand computers.
I suppose he hasn't taken the time to consider that multiprocessing, in which
more than one CPU shares the bus, has the SAME problem as multitasking:
bandwidth. It's nice to drool about CPU-per-process systems, but if they all
share the same buss, I'm sorry, but the background tasks are STILL going to
slow down the foreground task. Come on, Jerry, think before you type.
<Sigh> The sad thing is, some of us try so d*mn HARD to think everything
through before we write our columns and we STILL make stupid mistakes. He gets
to make them for free.
Rick
Rick,
<Nodding head in agreement>
Ben's SetPri has really changed the way I use my Amiga. Once you
learn how to make it interact smoothly with the OS, thru Trial and GURU
(well, Lockup actually, but GURU looks better), you can have all sorts
of stuff going at once without the foreground task losing much, if any,
speed.
Methinks Lord Pournelle is perhaps leaping on the multiprocessing
bandwagon a bit soon. The same issue of Byte (November) contains a
series of articles on "the current crop of workstations." Mentioned,
among others, is Sun's new 4/260, which has a RISC MPU running at
16.67-MHz, Weitek 1164 and 1165 FPPs, and a claimed MIPS rating of _10_!
I doubt if Jenerous Jerry could do much to tax its abilities.
Rick, I think discerning readers can tell the difference between a
writer who _thinks_ and one who merely pontificates. Most of the Amiga
writers I've read, yourself included, fall in the former category. Keep
it up.
Dave
Dave — I was very pleased to see that SetPri is used in your system to good
effect. Gives me a warm feeling, and all that. –Ben–
<BLUSH!!!>
Rick
I've noticed an annoying trend in his columns toward phrases such as "Modula 2
experts tell me…" or "Mac experts tell me…", meaning he's ceased digging
into things on his own, and ferments an opinion based on a series of chatty
phone calls to muckety-mucks in the field in question, excepting the
aforementioned Modula 2 example, when he only talks to his son, who works for
FTL Modula.
Dave,
I agree about your claustrophobia–I experience it every time I go to work-I
support IBM ATs — every chance I get, I talk up the Amy. It's getting so that
some of my users are crying enough already! Anyhow, going from 2.5Mb RAM all
usable by programs AND data to 2.5Mb, brain-damaged into a 1Mb RAMdisk, 640K
main memory, remainder Expanded EEMS memory, is emough to make me cry. Almost
went ahead and installed DesqView this past week, but the switch setting
nonsense that was required (would have had to remove the HD to get at the
jumper) combined with the fact that the _last_ time I tried DV on my machine,
it ate the hard drive (don't know how, tho) tells me that Multitasking on PCs
the way we know it on Amy, is _never_ going to be a real possibility.
I almost went ahead with the changeover, but couldn't. Idecided to satisfy
myself with the fact that my Amy is a better machine tech-wise than the 8Mhz AT
I use here at work.
–Gabe
Gabe,
Is DesqView one of the alternative DOSes, or is it an add-on environ-
ment like MS Windows? My relative ignorance of the IBM world prompts me
to ask.
Speaking of PC multitasking, I got the chance earlier this week to
check out a pre-release version of OS/2. (One of my friends has a
friend who works for IBM, which has regional headquarters nearby.) Holy
Over-documentation! Not only that, the OS itself is big, bloated, and
clunky. We're talkin' major stinkeroo here…it's even worse than I'd
been led to believe. Of course, the version I saw was a beta, and my
opinion is admittedly biased, but even so OS/2 needs a _lot_ of work.
Yuckk!
Dave
Dave,
Now let's be honest…does that really suprise you? (OS/2 being
bloated, etc.)
Don
One good thing about IBM documentation. It usually consists of 20% "This page
intentionally left blank", and of the remaining 80%, 20 % of that consists of
repetitions of the phrase "defined as a sequence of non-blank characters which
may or may not be separated by one or more blanks."
Regards, Larry.
David,
DesqView is an environment, _not_ an OS. It supports many programs in what
is essentially a time_sliced multitasking environment. However, due to the
fact that most programmers who want to get good performance on the PC line
often "program to the metal," there are just as often many incompatibilities
between TSR (terminate and Stay-resident) programs and load-run-quit (my
phrase) programs. This is taken care of (sort of) in QV — there is an option
when setting up to use DV with a particular program to indicate WRITES DIRECTLY
TO SCREEN –ie this beastie is _not_ well-behaved.
NOT that this does not apparently happen in intuition, but there, the
standards have already been mostly set. Return that memory, release that
library, tote that …. well, you get the idea.
As to OS/2, Microsoft reportedly sold themselves down the line (into slavery?)
to get the right(/privilege?) to write OS/2. Since they had to hew a line
close to IBM's desires (since they are going to release OS/2 Advanced edition
sometime in 1988/9) this means that they have to have alot of unused hooks for
that OS when it arrives.
Ah well, go to sleep with infected people at night, wake up with terminal
diseases in the morning… (Good luck Bill Gates)
–Gabe
Dave,
After thinking some more about what my young friend said, it seems to me that
the "image" he has in mind doesn't apply to all "big buck" business. I'm no
marketing major (sheesh – when I went to university, "marketing" hadn't been
invented!), but it's obvious that smart businessmen project the image that they
think will appeal to their customers. Just look at the Coke and Pepsi
commercials – or at the "Heartbeat of America".
The average person seems to accept eccentricity in sports, entertainment and
the arts, but looks for traditional values in areas like insurance, banking,
real estate and government – sort of "I'll buy your album even if you were high
on cocaine when you recorded it, but don't look for a Supreme Court appointment
if you smoked a joint ten years ago". So if you deal with the general public,
you have to meet their expectations – or at least have to *seem* to.
John Sculley (CEO at Apple) makes a lot of sense in his new "Odyssey" book –
like you, he wants to see new personal computers change the way people work,
instead of designing computers to help people work the old way. Maybe the
Amiga was "too much, too soon" – ideas change slowly in big organizations, so
maybe a mouse with a black-and-white screen had to be familiar before they
could accept a mouse with color.
Incidentally, I used to be a systems manager in a big company – took my early
retirement almost five years ago, and am enjoying my Amiga (GURU, bright colors
and all). Haven't worn a tie for months!
Vince
Vince,
That's a good point about projecting an appealing image. A shrewd
company will study its prospective customers and then adjust or even
overhaul its image accordingly. That's just what Apple has done. (I'm
reading Sculley's book right now–he's a cool dude.) The thing is, you
have to aim the projector at the screen and focus it before you can
project the image. And even before that, you have to create an image to
put in the projector.
Commodore's main problem is that the Amiga's image is a total mess.
You simply can't market your computer as an "everything" machine, even
if it is one. You must be specific. The Amiga was designed from the
ground up with video applications in mind. Video is a tremendous
marketing tool, as every record company and pop music performer (to name
just _one_ example) has learned. An affordable computer that can handle
all the video razzmatazz should sell like hotcakes in the marketing
world. So why in the name of Darwin (winking at Ben) hasn't Commodore
imaged the Amiga as _The_ Video Computer? Why didn't CBM encourage the
development of professional video tools for the Amiga from the
beginning? Why isn't Commodore advertising the Amiga 2000 in the
magazines and trade papers that video and marketing people read? The
Amiga has the chance to be the pioneering machine in a potentially
explosive and lucrative field, and instead CBM is saying "me, too" to
IBM compatibility and "me, too" to desktop publishing. Why be an also-
ran when you can be a shining star? Ticks me off, it does.
Now that the Mac has gained respectability as a desktop-publishing
machine, due in large part to Apple's fine marketing savvy, the big
names are producing software for it and it's moving into the general
business world. Now, with stuff like HyperCard, the Mac has the
opportunity to be a driving force in that world. Once you get your foot
in the door…. Commodore could accomplish the same thing with the
Amiga, imaged and marketed as a video machine, if they would just get
their act together and start putting their brains and imagination to
good use.
(Stepping down from soapbox…)
Dave
P.S. I _hate_ ties. 8^)
Vince,
Sounds like your friend is exactly what's wrong with the establishment