ILM
17 messages in this thread
>>I am looking for any ILM contact to discuss their entry level positions.
PMJI – I have talked to ILM, and the story I was told was that they offer
internships to students with 3 years computer studies – comp animation major.
When asking about entry-level jobs, they had and knew nothing…
James,
[ILM taking comp.anim. major students for internships]
I did not know that there is such a major for College. I thought that
it was just started up recently for Grad. school. My major is
Broadcast comm. (focusing on DTV though.) I do have as much
computer experience/knowledge as some computer sci. majors around
though. What do you think- are they looking for just programmers, or
ones who can communicate an experience? I doubt that my little
programming skills will dazzle them. I have taken Pascal, drafting,
and some electronics courses though.
Please let me know who you talked to, and what they do. (e-mail?) An
internship would be good enough. Thanks, John
<<What do you think- are they looking for just programmers, or ones
who can communicate an experience? I doubt that my little
programming skills will dazzle them. I have taken Pascal, drafting,
and some electronics courses though.>>
I think they'd be interested in programmers, but more so animators.
The way the future of TV, Film and advertising is going, computers
are becoming more a part and less a "cool thing". If I had gone to
school (instead of sef-study) I would
have worked on both computing and art or film. A combination of both
is CRUCIAL for this new field. I too have a lot of computer
experience, but don't have the piece of paper to prove it.
My advise? Make yourself available to any small computer animation
company. And learn 3D Studio. It may not be SoftImage, but the
theories are basically the same. What little exeprience I have had on
the bigger machines has only showed me that 3D Studio is as
sophisticated (sp?) as the big boys…
Thanks for the advice. I think ILM may be too difficult to get into,
even as an intern. I'm gonna try, and pray- but I see myself getting
started in some smaller animation house doing shorter pieces. I'm
not giving up now though. ILM is too big a deal to let the odds get
you down.
About my education, I'm trying to get a broad education as possible,
within reason. I have taken art, design, programming, electrical
engineering, Tv, Radio, (…) classes. (It's calling changing your
major several times <g>) I seemed to cram a four year experience
into five. <g>
I am now soaking up as much computer graphics material, tips, info,
etc, as possible. I read about everything I can get my hands on.
(Aside from the Siggraph math/programming journals. <g> I tried.
They loose me quick.)
About 3DS, I want it. Currently, I use a character-based type program
called Playmation. It's good for characters, allowing complex
movements and motion. I like some of the features over those I know
of in many polygon-based programs like 3DS. I don't know about R3,
but it seems much harder to do character stuff in R2 than
Playmation. I think part of it is due to the polygon models. I like
the full spline models in P. I can gyrate them around like jello,
and still have smooth edges. As best as I understand, 3DS needs a
high-polygon model to give the same approximation. I do like many
other features for non-character type stuff. The IPAS functions are
one that quickly comes to mind. Faster rendering is another.
About ILM, do you remember who you talked to? I am looking for some
way to talk to someone inside, without having to send a letter to
their generic PO box address. I doubt I would get much of a
response. I'd love to get an internet address to talk to someone.
John,
Take a lot of art classes. Most of the stuff you are going to learn
in the computer classes is going to be obsolete by the time you get
out but the art and design experience will life with you a lifetime.
Unless you want to program, programs like 3DS and even the big boys
(or should I say big bucks) don't require programming skills to do
animation. But on the other hand, if you don't have good desing
skills and a good knowledge of color, you are never going to be worth
as much as the guy who has these skills. Other good classes to take
might include classes on film or if your lucky and your school has
classes in classical animation.
Andrew McClary
Graphic Alchemy
<<About my education, I'm trying to get a broad education as possible,
within reason. I have taken art, design, programming, electrical
engineering, Tv, Radio, (…) classes. (It's calling changing your
major several times <g>) I seemed to cram a four year experience
into five. <g>>>
This is the way to do it. But work experience means more in the long
run, although, when I think about it, this is such a new field, any
experience is good experience.
Read "Computer Graphics World" – the best mag I've seen on the
subject… and lots of pretty pictures.
I don't know Playmation. It's DOS based, I'd guess. What are the
theories behind it (ie: how does it work). You're right about 3DS and
character animation. My current project is about a robot, but was
originally written for a human. I decided the robot movements were
more suited to this polygonal environment. But, oh boy, just wait
'til you get to play with SoftImage or Alias… one day, one day.
I didn't get a contact name at ILM. They're not the friendliest bunch,
which is understandable, considering the number of mes who call. Look
for a smaller, more up and coming company. Or better yet, try one of
the big software companies. Learn how they make all this stuff.
>"Computer Graphics World"
That mag is on my list of regular reading, along with DTVW, 3D Artist,
Videography, an occaional Mac mag, and a forgotten few others.
I don't have many choices of 3D around here, so I had to get my own setup, and
work from the ground up. I am carving my own 3D way here at college, getting
out of classes to do independent 3D work- using my own equipment, and such.
Playmation is a pretty cool Windows based program. It is fully spline
based, and has spine, muscle and morphing features needed for good
char. anim. The motion is also variable, rather than linear from one
keyframe to another/etc. The guys making the program are trying to
make as sophisticated a program (for char. anim.) as possible. There
is a step up to Playmation, called ProMation- due out now. It
features Inverse Kinematics, full splines, skinning between 2
hierarchically connected objects, and a bunch more stuff that I have
not seen in any other programs other than SoftImage, and the like.
Pro. costs around $800 too. It will import .DXF files as well. I
plan to get it soon, but I don't have the cash for it right now. I
have a more immediate need for video out, and a bigger HD.
I do see R3 being a good tool though. I'd like both. Since they both
support compositing, I'd like to be able to combine the two
together. Mabe R4 will give more flexability for its objects,
allowing the features of real character type animating programs like
Promation. Both spline and polygon objects together might be an
option..
3DS *can* do char., but it seems real hard. I saw a mouse anim. that
looked really good for 3DS. It looked like something done in a char.
based program- but I know it took alot of work to do it. Check it
out, it's on the R3 demo tape. Everything else I've seen has it's
limbs chopped off, allowing them to move. That can look neat, but
it's not cool when that's the only easy way to do it. Enough ragging
on 3DS- I think it's a fine program, and it is the best "swiss army
knife" for 3D. I'd buy it if I were doing 3D for a living. I
couldn't afford not to.
>ILM
Yeah, I know that ILM has been pretty "introverted" since it's big take off in
the Star Wars trilogy. I understand though. I've heard of tons of fans
swarming their studios for a peek into their world. <g>
Thanks for you input.
John
I should check out 3D Artist but I can never find it.
Hey, do you have the info on Playmation? I'd love to check it out. Sound
extremely interesting! Will Pro. EXPORT DXF files? It sounds like these and 3DS
would get along great.
And I didn't mean to put down 3DS. It's a spectacular program, one of
the best for the PC, in all ways and all uses.
Plamation already exports .dxf. PRO will as well. It is pretty cool
in that it gives more polygon's in areas it needs it, and less in the
areas it doesn't. Pretty smart, I say.
PRO will import too. I'm not sure how that will work, but I am told
that it does have that feature.
I think that Pro, and 3DS will be good together. But I'd rather have
the rendering power of 3DS chugging away, than the PRO. PRO
raytraces, and does not do Phong or Gouraud. It can't, due to it's
patch construction. The results are good, but not as fast as 3DS can
be. (but 3DS can't do refraction, etc.- as best I understand.) Alas,
importing PRO figures to animate in 3DS would be pointless- since PRO
has the better char. animation tools. So one must composite both
together to get the best of both worlds. I don't know how easy
that'd be though. (perspective, etc.)
I'll try to dig up an evaluation I gave of Playmation to someone
earlier, if you are interested. (Win Cim may have deleted it
though. It seems to loose messages now and then.)
<<Alas, importing PRO figures to animate in 3DS would be pointless-
since PRO has the better char. animation tools. So one must
composite both together to get the best of both worlds. I don't know
how easy that'd be though. (perspective, etc.)>>
I don't think this would be a huge prob, as long as you could save
Playmations as .Flc's or .fli's. Actually, I think there's a new file
type in 3DS3 but I haven't gotten to that new feature yet.
I would definitely be interested in whatever info you had on this
software package, especially the makers. I would like to try and get
some specs.
Yes, the PRO/Playmation programs output .tga files- upto 32bit (with
alpha channel). The resolution is like 4kx4k or 8kx8k or something
really big like that.
The problem with compositing is with moving cameras, and correct
motion/perspective. Also, I'm not sure how one would use the shadows
or reflections of a PRO object reflecting/shadow-casting in the 3DS
world (or vice versa). You'd have to forget about all that, or take
a long time to try to fake it.
I'd use DTA for the compositing, or whatever Video Post has (I'm not
familiar with that.). DTA can be found in Graphdev, Morphing
section. It's great. Soon, there will be an "add alpha" feature
that will be good for cool effects/whatever. The program's main
feature is to "compile" animation files together from .tga's (hence
the name Daves Targa Animator <g>)
I'll look for the specs/review stuff I have done earlier. I hope I
have it- I don't have the time now. (sorry) I'll get back to you for
this either way. (Probably in a new PLAYMATION or PROMATION titled
thread.
John
<<The problem with compositing is with moving cameras, and correct
motion/perspective. Also, I'm not sure how one would use the shadows
or reflections of a PRO object reflecting/shadow-casting in the 3DS
world (or vice versa). You'd have to forget about all that, or take
a long time to try to fake it.>>
I wonder if one were to save each frame of their animation as a .DXF,
then merge them in with an already constructed 3DS scene/animation
with camera moves and lighting already created. Kind of defetes (sp?)
the purpose of keyframing but it may be a work around. You're right
about the shadows though. If you were to match all camera moves and
lighting in PRO, and then import each frame into the VIDEO POST…
sounds like a lot of work. To bad it doesn't output .FLIs. Then
create your character animation with proper lighting and matched
camera moves, and VIDEO POST it into 3DS's keyframer. Theoretically,
it might work, but inconsistancies in lighting and camera between the
program would wreck it.
I don't know. But it sure would be fun to try. Hey, can you E-MAIL me
something in either/both .DXF and .TGA. I could play with it and let
know you what happens…
Check out my message under Playmation/Promation thread. I ended up
talking alot about them, so I renamed the title and put it there. If
you have any more questions, feel free to ask (in that thread).
Things were getting too confusing. <g> John
There is no doubt in my mind that the lack of spline based modeling
and animation is the biggest drawback of 3DS. Maybe r4…
I've been reading about PlayMation, Pro-Mation and Real 3D primarily
for the spline based modeling features. Perhaps it would be possible
to use Pro-Mation or Real 3D to do the modeling then convert it to
polygons for rendering in 3DS. Or, maybe some new IPAS routines may
provide this capability.
Hi. Pardon my jumping into this thread, but it looked really
interesting and particularily relevant to my personal situation. This
message is not addressed to anyone specifically, but I just replied
in the thread where I thought it should go.
I'm a student in my last year of high school. I'm very much into
computer animation and would like to see myself doing it as a
career. I'm not sure if I want to end up character animating for
film or television, though. I'm pretty sure, though, that what I
want to do hasn't even been invented yet. A couple years ago, I took
a course in Extended Media which dealt with video, film, animation,
photography and other technological wonders. It was very
enlightening. All my life I had assumed I could be a techie person
and I would get me where I wanted. I realized that in order to do
anything worthwhile, I needed the art background also. I've been
taking art for the past two years and find it refreshing. The ideas
that your put into your stuff are more important than how you
actually do it. I'm sure that's what ILM is looking for. Anyone can
be taught to use a computer, but not anyone can be taught to be an
artist. I was lucky enough to have it in me that I also loved movies
and wanted to make them, so I feel that I have a fairly good
combination of both skills needed (art and computer) to get along.
My history, though is mainly with computers. I, like you (I think, or
someone else in the thread), am 100% self taught. I've taken all the
computer courses in my school, but just for the credit. I could have
actually TAUGHT them with what I knew. I've been using 3DS for about
2 and a half years now, that was completely self taught also. The
art stuff is kind of new to me, but I'm liking it and taking to it
well. I work part time at a local computer animation firm and the
experience that I'm getting there tells me that you need something
more than just computer knowledge. Half the people there are
artists, trained to use computers after they learned design at art
school. Everyone there does some sort of art on the side, in some
other medium, for themselves.
Having to apply for university for next year really soon, these issues
are really relevant. I know I want to do animation, but not just a
computer science major with a graphics specialty. I've talked to
people doing that and they just program applications. They figure
out the formulas for ray tracing and discover new and faster
techniques for shadows and reflections, that sort of thing. They're
headed for a job programming software at Alias or Softimage. What
they don't do, is actually use the stuff. They never make any
animation with what they've done, other than for demonstrational
purposes. Animation done by scientists is traditionally, bad. I want
to use the stuff for a purpose, as well as know how it works. Knowing
the programming is still an essential part of it (especially with
IPAS), but it's not ALL of it.
I live in Toronto. I've checked out local York University for their
programs there. They offer the only Bachelor of Fine Arts degree in
Canada and have a fairly good film program. I'm also looking into
going to the states, but the cost is tremendous. I've been fortunate
enough to speak with profs and students at York and figure out a
schedule so that I could major in Film and minor in computer
science. This is pretty good. I can do just about everything I want
to. Also nearby is Sheridan college, whose comp. animation program
is considered by many, including ILM and Disney, to be the best in
the world. They have a 1 year program that requires a fine arts
degree to get into. Supposedly, though, they and York are cooking up
a new program that combines film and computer animation. I would
love to go into that.
I can talk for hours on this (as you can probably see). Actually, I'm
more used to seeking out information like this than actually giving
it out. If you've read this far, thanks for putting up with my life
story. I just wanted to express all the stuff that's been in my head
for the last while, and this seemed like a good place to do it.
Please reply (anyone), I'd love to get into a conversation about this
stuff.
Aaron
P.S. I've never heard of an animation major either. Is it offered at
a specific school, or is it just comp. sci. with a specialty?
Hello Aaron,
It sounds to me like you are doing exactly the right things. I'm 23,
and WISH I had taken way more art in school. You're right, computers
are easy to learn if you have a mind for. The problem with doing it
in school is, tomorrow, what you learned it out of date and the new
stream of even more amazing software is on the way. I'll except one
thing – the theory. It's easy to learn how to punch up a camera
track, or render a box – but understanding the theory behind
anti-aliasing, phong shading, NURBS, ray-tracing etc isn't so simple.
But I think it's essential. Having said that, a really good book on
graphics would go a long way, if no all the way, to explaining this
stuff.
I just picked one up. It's dense, full of equations and stuff that
means nothing to me (oh, why didn't I listen in Physics 11!), but the
theory is there. "Advanced Rendering and Animation Techniques –
Theory and Practice" by Mark and Alan Watt. About $50, but I think
it's all I'll need to get fully up to speed.
<<The ideas that your put into your stuff are more important than how
you actually do it.>>
Absolutely. You're right, a lot of comp. animation had been created
by engineers instead of artists and it has that "gee-wiz, look at
this amazing new technolgy!" I'm like you, and believe it's the idea
and the story, first and foremost.
Take art. Take film, without hesitation. Keep up with the computers,
and try and figure out how to apply what ypu learn to the computer.
I work for a production company in Vancouver. We've been making
traditional films for twenty some odd years, but are now looking at
the possiblities of making those smae films, but using computers way,
way more. I think the future is in this, especially if production
costs are a fraction of traditional film making.
Keep it up. I wish I were in your place, just coming out of high
school. Okay, okay, I'm only 23.
Keep in touch and let us know how it's going. Who knows, we may work
together in a few years… <g>
James
PS – Learn how to tell a story!!