The Dealer's Dilemna
26 messages in this thread
John,
Morph's Digital Outpost is indeed a cool magazine.
I am sincere in expressing my gratitude.
And thanks for the insight on how Syndesis and Morph's came together.
I was wondering how much the offer of a free six-month subscription
actually cost your company. The loan of a list of names? Is that all?
I'm convinced more than ever that it's a great public relations tool.
Especially if it gave you all of that exposure for no cost.
As a person with more than 10 years of advertising and p.r. experience,
I'd label that a win/win/win experience. Advertiser/publication/reader.
I can only hope that more publications and merchants try this approach
in expanding readership.
As for the MM Guide:
Nothing you said supports any argument as to why dealers should
participate in their own demise. I still think the MM Guides will
disappear. At least this first go 'round. There are some very
obvious, glaring reasons.
Quoting you:
JF > Autodesk hands over the production of these guides to a third party.
JF > We were over a barrel because they had the monopoly of getting this
JF > book in every box.
Your response indicates that you found some answers as to why competitor's
ads also showed up in the guide.
Quoting you:
JF > As a company that's depended heavily on dealer sales for their success,
JF > I hope they can fine-tune their policies.
DITTO. Mr. Foust. MAJOR DITTOS
Quoting you:
JF > I'd recommend talking at length with your dealer representatives
JF > at Autodesk.
I have. I'm still waiting for some answers.
Kevin Gibson
Animation Nation <tm> -=It's a state of mind.=-
P.S. I was equally sincere in knowing what else you guys have on the burners.
Yes, it really didn't cost us any more than the time to a) prove the deal was
legit and b) get some assurance from the publisher on down to the person doing
the mailing that our list wasn't going to be sold.
Yes, I don't have much to say about disappearing MM guides. I don't think the
presence of the guide makes much difference to whether a dealership is going to
survive or not. Do you sell issues of Cadence and Computer Graphics World?
Same thing. It almost sounds like you believe that customers should not be
fully informed before they make purchases, that they shouldn't know about
competition, that they should simply shut up, hand over their credit cards to
you and sign the reciept for whatever you've just sold them.
What, you think that people don't know that MicroStation and mail order exists?
And that removing the MM Guide will prevent them from learning about it? That
guide is something that Autodesk put in each and every box. I'd bet that your
dealer agreement has some fine print somewhere that says you can't break up
product into its constituent parts in order to pick and choose what to sell.
Of course, I doubt anyone will ever enforce that… but I think it's a raw
deal when dealers are removing my paid advertisement from 3DS boxes, when
agents of Autodesk promised me they'd be there.
Hi ya John,
Regarding your last post on this topic:
JF > …I don't have much to say about disappearing MM guides.
You seem to have a lot to say about something.
JF > I don't think the presence of the guide makes much difference
JF > to whether a dealership is going to survive or not.
Apparently your location in Wisconsin does not afford you the same view
that we, in the technological backwaters of southern Louisiana, enjoy.
And I use the term "enjoy" loosely here.
New Orleans, not a small town, and site of the upcoming 1996 SIGGRAPH Trade
Show and Convention, once had as many as six Autodesk Multimedia dealers.
September 1, found us with _NO_ dealers within the city limits
and one on the outskirts of town. We are not an anomaly.
I will leave you to your own devices to confirm this.
Perhaps you're no longer concerned about your ad dollars
going out the window because you've finally received a copy of the MM Guide,
which Autodesk, like it or not, is sending to all registered users.
Now as to its impact:
Why don't you read through it before you make any more statements.
Keep in mind the date, Nov. 1, and try to find out it's significance.
Add it up, and if you insist, get back to me. Frankly, I'm tiring of this.
JF > I'd bet that your dealer agreement has some fine print….
Perhaps you are confusing my present position with a former role.
I am not a dealer. Never have been.
Fact is, few dealers would be willing to tread the ground I now walk.
I apologize if something I said led you to this conclusion.
JF > Of course, I doubt anyone will ever enforce that…
Ahh!! The heart of the matter. Policy. And when and how it's enforced.
And my don't we look silly, you and I, two outsiders looking in,
standing on the sidewalk bitchin'. I think the Morph deal was good P.R.
Why are you so eager to undermine the positive steps you've made by
engaging in this discourse?
I feel foolish enough. But I'm glad you're playing along. Check it out.
I'll be here, kicking my dog, if you still want to play. 😉
*** Animating up a storm in the Deep South ( I think it's a hurricane! ) ***
Kevin Gibson
Animation Nation <tm> New Orleans / SIGGRAPH '96
Hmm, southern Lousiana, isn't that where a certain Autodesk-focused
mail order company is located? Are you implying this has something
to do with the disappearance of six dealerships? I thought you
couldn't sell AutoCAD or 3DS by mail order.
No, I haven't seen the new MM guide yet. What happens on November 1?
And I do look forward to Siggraph in New Orleans. Much nicer than
central Los Angeles or even Florida in mid-summer.
<Much nicer than central Los Angeles or even Florida in mid-summer.>
Speaking as a native, New Orleans is FAR from nice during the mid-summer. I
don't know about you, but 90 degrees and 100% humidity is not my idea of a
"nice" time. I'm not bashing you, I love the city-can't wait to go back for a
visit during Christmas-but the last thing I liked about the city was the
weather. No what I would be looking forward to is the evenings on Boubon Street
AFTER the show. Now there's a nice time! See ya'll there…
Jh
Seeing that Siggraph organizers seem like the cheap convention rates
in Southern cities in the summer, I don't think we're going to avoid
100 degrees and humidity. At least I've never been to Nahlins. It's
been a decade since they held Siggraph in Minneapolis, that's great
in the summer. I'd even go to Canada.
<Nahlins>…Close but it's N'awlins. Hey I'm just trying to prepare ya!
Jh
I was going to jump in and suggest Fargo, ND for Siggraph 96, then back
off and suggest Minneapolis as an alternate site just to appear somewhat sane.
But seriously, as you know, Mpls. would be a great spot in the summer!
Winnipeg, Manitoba would be marvelous too (both 250 miles from Fargo).
Heck, why not just have it in Fargo? We've got the "Fargodome" which
holds over 27k people for concerts. You could put a lot of soybeans in dat der
dome!).
Paul
I'd love to see the Dakotas, too. I could go fossil hunting! Isn't
there some kind of corn museum around there, too? 🙂
>>Isn't there some kind of corn museum around there, too? 🙂
Don't know about a museum, BUT I've seen billboard ads for something called
'the great Corn Palace' up the interstate from where I live; don't even want to
know what it's about!!! ;^). If your really curious, I can ask some victems,
er, I mean people who make have seen it.
>>I could go fossil hunting!
I'd like to do that, too. Dinosaurs closely follow dragons as a hobby of mine
;^).
John Stetzer
JWS
On the other hand, some stand-up comedian friends of mine assure me
that Fargo is the worst place of all when it comes to "stuck there in
a snowstorm" factor.
>> Fargo is the worst place of all when it comes to "stuck there in a
snowstorm" factor. <<
Well, it probably has one of the highest "chance to get stuck there in a
snowstorm" factors. The land is completely flat for at least 25 miles in all
directions, more than that in others. Our daily average windspeed is higher
than the Windy City itself. People have died in cars in town during blizzards.
I find the airport boring enough waiting for flights, I can't imagine
spending a day or two there. No hotels near it either. No boats, no lights,
no motor cars, not a single luxury… Great, now I'm depressed.
So where are you?
Paul D(epressed) Sanford
>> …something called 'the great Corn Palace'…
If you are talking about the Corn Palace that I know about, it is
in southeast South Dakota in the town/city of Mitchell. I grew up
quite close to it but never actually visited it. One thing that they
do is make at least one picture with grains of different colored
corn. I believe that picture is different each year but cannot swear
to it. I left that area a number of years ago. If there is another
place, never mind <g>.
>> the Corn Palace that I know about, it is in southeast South Dakota in the
town/city of Mitchell
Dots de one :^). I say up the road 'cause I live in Vermillion and
work out of North Sioux City.
>>If there is another place, never mind <g>
It would send cold chills down my spine if there was ;^).
John Stetzer
JWS
>> I could go fossil hunting! Isn't there some kind of corn museum around
there, too? <<
You're thinking of SOUTH Dakota. Mitchell, SD has the Corn Palace. The
beginning of Jurassic Park is set in the Black Hills, I think. NORTH Dakota
has lots of farmland, more farmland, and some sloughs, which get drained for
more farmland.
Paul
North Dakota, South Dakota, how could I mix them up? They're so
different. 🙂 (I'll never forget the Californian at a computer
show who said "Isn't Wisconsin north of Minnesota?" and the other one
who said it was next to Idaho.)
Hey Paul whazza?
Is this the thread I was visiting just the other day?
Or did I drift off to sleep with the tv on again.
This sounds more like the Farm and Crop Report.
Corn and soybeans. Snowstorms. 90 degree heat and 100% humidity.
Farmland, farmland, farmland…..
What kind of dealer are we talking about? 😉
The thread used to be about something else.
Seems like the title of this thread is now misleading.
If we're going to talk about the weather, crops and such I think we should
start a new thread. 🙂
So I've posted a message to Jeremy Hubbell called
"It's the Stupidity." hehehe
Let's move over there and have some fun and stop this false advertising. <g>
I wouldn't want dealers checking this thread out thinking they're going
to learn something important when all we're doing is jawing about
boll wevils and soil conditions. <BFG>
When you log in over there Paul, why don't you lift the veil on
the mystery and tell me where the name "Level 5" came from.
I'm still dying to know. Who is Level 4? Somebody you've left behind
no doubt. <g>
Kevin Gibson
Animation Nation <tm> -=It's a recurring thing.=-
Been watching this thread while ROTFL for some time now. You guys are
great. I couldn't keep silent any longer.
So you are not a dealer? Then how do you have this awsome insight,
this psychic perspective that seems to ring in my brain and dreams at
night? Do you develop IPAS routines that read the brains and hearts
of the small MM dealers out there. I new IPAS was powerful, but I had
no idea……
I had this dream of a giant conference table, the size of the football
stadium (we call it the Swamp), with the Adesk brass on the other
side yelling (within an echo chamber) at me to meet my quota or they
would forclose on my house, sell my kids and bomb my small town..(if
anyone quotes me on this dream, please include the following!) Now,
in reality, I have to admit that Adesk is doing good things now
trying to protect us small guys who live on service and support, not
volume, from the mail order monsters < aarrgghh > who stalk our
customers with sirens singing discounts. I really do think they are
trying to help. And all the good and bad press aside , I'll stick
with the desk as long as I am able to do so. They have done good
things for the world many times and IMHO blown it a few times too.
(someday I'll write a book) Proper politics aside… ever heard of
the harvesting procedure of cutting down vertical market apps so they
become horizontal ?? It kind of like logging, but nobody hears the
tree when it falls. Just a silent scream. I am growing some seedlings
myself and you know how mothers worry.. (now I'm really in
trouble…)<ggg> Just jesting folks…
Your attitude is refreshing, and entertaining, so I thought I would
say hello and applaude. I was floored to read that you are not a
dealer! Please let us know if we can do anything anytime to help
you. We are a relatively small AutoCAD & MM dealer surfing the
ripples in Florida. Retail sales inhale these days. If we weren't
developers too, life would be really rough. I feel for those 6
dealers in N'awlins and their families. I wonder how many have bitten
the dust in the past year or so. We also develop CDK apps which is our
real passion. And as a small mom & pop (litterally) dealership may I
take this opportunity to "Thank you for your Support" <slurp, slurp>.
I was gonna ask what you do, but I found your definition of 'animate'.
Great profession. I have to repeat it here: <<<<animate 1 : to
give spirit and support to : Encourage
2 a: to give life to
b: to give vigor and zest to
3 : to move to action
4 a: to make or design in such a way that apparent spontaneous
lifelike movement is effected
b: to produce in the form of an animated cartoon>>>>
I like to think of myself as an animator as well, although perhaps
more in the first 3 than the last these days. Someday, I'll be able
to stop doing so much business and do more animation.
Angela Pate MicronGreen
P.S. I have family up near Alexandria…I go through N'awlins often.
Great town…
you signed off …. >>>>*** Animating up a storm in the Deep South (
I think it's a hurricane! ) ***<<<<
Y'all don't know what hurricanes are!! On top of Andrew blowing my
family's neighborhood apart (no water for 3 weeks!) in Miami. We've
had 2 direct hits from tornadoes in my house here in Gainesville, FL
in the past year. We lost over 100 trees, I mean BIG pines, snapped
off llike match sticks and stabbed into houses, cars, everything
around us. It looked like a war zone. We were lucky and only lost our
roof. Some lost the whole house. It has been an awsome year here…
But at least we do got them GATORS these days….from a gator in the
swamp…
Cyberspacing in the deeper South… in the swamp, I think its all a
wet dream…(swamps are wet, get your mind out of the gutter, I'm a
lady gator you know..)
Just found this from you on another thread. so I added it to my reply
still in my outbox…!!! I can't believe this…now that I look
around, you speak of the swamp often?… I honestly didn't know 'till
now.
>>>The playing field could appear to be level and give you a sense of
comfort. Then, suddenly, you find yourself standing in the middle of
quicksand. Such is the lay of the land in the jungle…. and in the
swamps. Paddling my pirogue under an overpass on the Super
Information Bayou. Shrimp poboys, boudin, red beans and rice and a
Barq's Root Beer. Somebody pass the Tabasco. Hey, lookit that
Gator. Here Wiz. Come here boy.<<<<
I guess we meet by fate…Be careful what you ask for… You'll
generally get it…. chomp..chomp..chomp..chomp… I'll be happy to
share my weight lifting muscleman gator mesh with you someday…Al E
Gator, the pride of gator county… (used it for a hard rock radio
station animation some 6 years ago… yes before there was a 3D
Studio….)
I can't believe I'm talking like this in public. If my husband ever
sees this I'll get blasted for being so unprofessionall… Oh
well….Gotta have some fun sometime. Thanks for being fun to
read….caio
<I can't believe I'm talking like this in public>
Hey it's fun to write, but even more fun to read(especially Kevin's
stuff) Hmmm…. Kevin, the CyberAuthor. Sounds good to me!
" CyberAuthor "
I think another Gibson has this corner of the literary market.
But I'll add it to the list of possibilities in case the present
situation doesn't pan out.
Let's see. That's:
1.) Dance Instructor in the Virtual Minefield, er, I mean, Virtual Ballroom
2.) Safety Coordinator for the Annual CyberScuba Convention / Belize
3.) Chief Alligator Wrestler at Billy Bob's Snake Farm and Creole Kitchen
4.) CyberAuthor
Okay. Worth considering.
I'm gone.
Dear Millard, er, um, Angela,
Thank you so much for your letter. When Millard finishes yelling at
you for writing it, tell him it was all my fault for being so
cryptic. You've been intercepting messages sent from a Nuorleenian
who fantasizes that he's engaged in some kind of battle.
Yeah. That's the ticket. The Battle of New Orleans.
Except the struggle extends way beyond the boundaries of this fair state.
AP > Been watching this thread while ROTFL for some time now.
AP > You guys are great. I couldn't keep silent any longer.
Glad to see somebody's having fun.
AP > So you are not a dealer?
AP > Then how do you have this awesome insight, this psychic perspective
AP > that seems to ring in my brain and dreams at night?
Actually, I signed up with Mrs. "Do Yo Know the Way to San Jose / That's
What Friends are For's Psychic 1-900 Number" and I've been plugged in to
the universal mind.
AP > Do you develop IPAS routines that read the brains and hearts of the small
AP > MM dealers out there. I new IPAS was powerful, but I had no idea……
No. But I'll get my guys right on it. At present we're working on an
IPAS that prints money. If we can get the code right, we'll all be
able to afford doing just animation and chatting on Compuserve. And
forget about the drudgery of Bizness or Bidness.
AP > I had this dream of a giant conference table, the size of the football
AP > stadium (we call it the Swamp), with the Adesk brass on the other side…
We interrupt this dream for a message from our sponsor.
Ms. Pate. You apparently ate the wrong thing for dinner. You're not having
a dream. You're having a nightmare. It is definitely not the same dream
that I have been living.
AP > Now, in reality, I have to admit that Adesk is doing good things now
AP > trying to protect us small guys who live on service and support,
AP > not volume, from the mail order monsters < aarrgghh > who stalk our
AP > customers with sirens singing discounts.
AP > I really do think they are trying to help.
Ms. Pate. Thank you for your support. Now put your helmet on and get back
down in the trenches. The bullets are flying way too fast and furious and
I really don't want to see you get hurt.
There are no alligators in California. At least, none that I am aware
of. Some lost souls, some misguided. But alligators. Nah. I don't
think so. Now about these mail order monsters that you speak of.
Where exactly are they located? Where do they get the products they
are selling? These are rhetorical questions, there is no need to
answer. Keep your head down.
AP > I'll stick with the desk as long as I am able to do so.
MAJOR DITTOS
AP > They have done good things for the world many times
AP > and IMHO blown it a few times too.
Another round of dittos everybody.
AP > (someday I'll write a book)
Hey! Now you're cruising through familiar territory! If you would like
a collaborator or iffin ya can use the soiveces of a desent copy edditor
just SCREAM. Yo Kevin!
AP > Proper politics aside…
AP > ever heard of the harvesting procedure of cutting down vertical market
AP > apps so they become horizontal ??
Politics aside? So you're not running for office. Better run for cover.
AP > It kind of like logging, but nobody hears the tree when it falls.
AP > Just a silent scream.
Does it sound something like this?
HEY EVERYBODY WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AP > (now I'm really in trouble…)<ggg> Just jesting folks…
Hmmm. Could be. those three ggg's might not be enuff. Try a couple
of smiley faces next time. :^) ;-> :-]
Nah. Guess not. People can't hear you laughing either.
AP > Your attitude is refreshing, and entertaining, so I thought I would
AP > say hello and applaude.
Heck. With you for an audience, I might reconsider my profession.
Wonder if Foust's stand-up comedian friends would like some company?
AP > I was floored to read that you are not a dealer!
Sounds like you been spending a lot of time on that floor Ms. Pate. ROTFL
AP > Please let us know if we can do anything anytime to help you.
To quote a wise sage from Florida:
" Be careful what you ask for… You'll generally get it…."
AP > I feel for those 6 dealers in N'awlins and their families.
AP > I wonder how many have bitten the dust in the past year or so.
Actually, We lost five in the past year. One is still hustling on
the outskirts of town. But he doesn't depend on Autodesk for his
existence. He's a super dealer for Truevision and a vendor of many
other products.
Then there's that guy out in the swamps.
New Orleans is a slow market. We're coming into our own though. We
lost the oil industry and the economy went to hell. The inhabitants,
at least the corporate ones and their families, went to Houston.
Our political system has always been notorious for being totally
bizarre. You would have thought that we would have been the new Las
Vegas given the history of the city of New Orleans, what with all of
the gambling, Red Light District, French Quarter, Riverboats and
shhhhh (mafia.)
But noooooooo. Mississippi, our backwards, ooops, backwoods friends
to the east got their act together faster than you can say "Edwin
Edwards" and now they have a golden coast of beaches and casinos.
Not that I really care for gambling. I'm not sure how it's going to
impact New Orleans. Lord knows, we've got enough problems already.
And I don't really blame it on the governor either. It just seemed
like something funny to say. But our state sure needs to pull out of
the slump. And the things you speak of battling are the same thing
small businesses and large have to deal with in my home state.
That's why I look forward to conventions like SIGGRAPH. It's not the
only one coming to town. Sheesh. We have one of the largest
convention centers in the world. And the sites ain't bad here
either.
But SIGGRAPH is my favorite. There isn't enough time to do all of
the things I want to do at SIGGRAPH. And I am so glad it's coming to
New Orleans. Maybe more of this high tech stuff will rub off on the
local economy and we'll find a new place in the sun.
We're ripe and ready for it.
Kevin Gibson
Animation Nation <tm> -=It's a Southern Thang.=-
This is what I do:
animate 1 : to give spirit and support to : Encourage
2 a: to give life to
b: to give vigor and zest to
3 : to move to action
4 a: to make or design in such a way that apparent spontaneous
lifelike movement is effected
b: to produce in the form of an animated cartoon
P.S. For a more comprehensive collection of the issues addressed by this here
author set your age selection back 30 days and search for messages from
and to 75313,620. That will get you started.
P.P.S. We don't talk about hurricanes in this thread. That topic is addressed
in the "It's the Stupidity" thread. I'll be posting a weather report up
there shortly.
P.P.P.S. I'm thinking of starting a new thread called "Micron
Green." Just so we can talk non-political shop. My mailbox is
backing up, but it's on the do list. Unless somebody beats me to
it. That's an invitation to you AND ALL YOU LURKERS.
>>>When Millard finishes yelling at you
for writing it, tell him it was all my fault for being so cryptic.<<<
He'll never know, unless someone up here talks… Keepin' my head
down… but it sure makes it hard to get anything done when you spend
so much time dodging those bullets. Thanks for the invite to start a
thread, but I guess I still feel out of my element up here in terms
of initiating such a thing..
Angela
MicronGreen
Mrs. Pate,
Regarding your last message here:
< He'll never know, unless someone up here talks… >
Yeah. This is your classic low profile activity area.
< Keepin' my head down… but it sure makes it hard to get anything done >
< when you spend so much time dodging those bullets. >
We're thinking 'bout rolling out heavier stuff.
But we're gonna have to dig deeper trenches.
< Thanks for the invite to start a thread, but I guess I still feel out of
< my element up here in terms of initiating such a thing.. >
Well… I guess ya proved yerself wrong on that one.
Jumped right in. No hesitation. I know why Millard married you.
He recognized a strong partner.
Why don't you tell me a little more about your concerns at MicronGreen
and lemme see if I can help.
Kevin Gibson
Animation Nation <tm> -= Cause that's what friends are for.=-
Kev, you sweet talker you…
Jh
Twas nibbling on all that sugar cane as a child, Jeremy.
Flames about MM guides aside… 🙂 We've about to release InterChange for
Windows. After that, we'll begin work in earnest on the SGI version, as well
as add a few new file formats that have been "paused" until the release of
InterChange for Windows. We're also going to make new editions of the
Syndesis 3D-ROMs, our 3D momdel collections that serve as a great demonstration
of what InterChange can do.
Speaking of great ideas in marketing and promotion… the 3D-ROMs are composed
of models contributed by our customers. We have a standing offer that if
someone sends us a 3D model we can redistribute on the next edition of the
3D-ROM, that they'll get a free copy of the 3D-ROM. We sent out hundreds of
free copies of the disc to submittors to the last disc, and we'll do it again.
We use InterChange to translate each model to five popular 3D formats,
including 3DS, so the data is easily accessible from almost any 3D program. We
also sell the 3D-ROMs for a very reasonable price. I just hired a new
full-time person to work on the next 3D-ROM…