#Networking Announcement
59 messages in this thread
Amiga Envoy Available from Intangible Assets Manufacturing
[Please do not post this version of this announcement outside of
CompuServe.]
PRODUCT
Amiga Envoy
DESCRIPTION
Amiga Envoy is the standard Amiga peer-to-peer networking software
developed by Commodore's Amiga Networking Group. Its performance,
user-interface and API are consistent with the philosophy of the
Amiga Operating System. Amiga Envoy provides a simple messaging
interface for the easy development of reliable network applications.
Included applications enable connected Amiga computers to share hard
disks, CD-ROMs, and printers transparently. Third-party applications
can provide functionality such as electronic mail, remote computer
access, multi-user databases and multi-player games.
To make Amiga Envoy available to end-users immediately, Intangible
Assets Manufacturing has licensed Amiga Envoy from Commodore. IAM has
produced a manual written by Dale Larson, one of Amiga Envoy's
original designers. The manual eases you through the set up and use
of a simple network. Additional documentation will be available (at
an additional charge). It will explain how to internetwork with Amiga
Envoy, how to develop software for it and how to use its security
features.
Intangible Assets Manufacturing supports the copies of Amiga Envoy it
distributes. Support is provided through electronic and physical mail
and by answering questions in such public forums as UseNet's
comp.sys.amiga.datacomm, on CompuServe, and on Bix.
REQUIREMENTS
Workbench 2.04, Kickstart 2.04, 512k RAM, SANA-II compatible
networking hardware (see COMPATIBILITY).
RECOMENDED
Workbench 2.1 or later, Kickstart 2.1 or later, 1MB RAM, Hard disk
with 300k free in SYS:.
AVAILABILITY
Now.
PRICE
List Price: $59.95 (2-user)
COMPANY AND ORDERING INFORMATION
Direct electronic inquiries to: info@iam.com
Direct postal mail to:
Intangible Assets Manufacturing
828 Ormond Avenue
Drexel Hill, PA 19026-2604
USA
COMPATIBILITY
Any SANA-II networking hardware may be used with Envoy, including
Ameristar A2066, AmiLink, ASDG LanRover, Commodore A2065 or A2060 and
SLIP (serial port).
Additional non-IP, SANA-II compatible networking protocol stacks may
be run at the same time as Amiga Envoy over the same networking
hardware. AS225r2 is the version of Commodore's TCP/IP package which
is compatible with Envoy (through SANA-II compatibility and close
cooperation regarding IP packets). It is expected to be available
from Intangible Assets Manufacturing soon.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR DEVELOPERS
Developers of any Amiga networking products or networking compatible
products are encouraged to contact Intangible Assets Manufacturing
regarding inclusion of their products in the forthcomming "Amiga
Networking Handbook." We want to make sure that Amiga users can find
out about every networking product that they may need. We hope to do
this by publishing information on all of the products that are
available.
Applications developers who wish to add networking features to their
products are encouraged to contact IAM regarding developer support
and/or consulting services.
The Amiga Envoy documentation produced by IAM is available for license
to third-parties wishing to distribute Envoy with their products.
Custom documentation can also be produced for third party networking
hardware and software products. Similar AS225 documentation is
expected to be available soon.
LEGAL
Amiga is a registered trademark of Commodore-Amiga, Inc. Workbench
and Kickstart are trademarks of Commodore-Amiga, Inc. Envoy is
Copyright 1985-1993 Commodore-Amiga, Inc., All Rights Reserved.
Distributed under license from Commodore. NetWare is a trademark of
Novell, Inc.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
This is great news. Can you explain how a serial connection would
be made. Is it a NULL Modem cable connection or is there additional
h/w required?
The SANA-II device driver specification archive (on Fish disks,
probably in forum libraries) contains a sample driver for SLIP —
Serial Line Internet Protocol. With a null-modem (or regular modem)
connection and a SLIP SANA-II driver, you can use any SANA-II
compatible networking protocol software over the serial ports with no
additional hardware.
Of course, serial is fairly slow for most purposes.
I believe that there is a SANA-II driver floating around for parallel
ports ala ParNet, if that's really what you're into.
Dale…
Do I understand correctly that with your software and a parallel cable and
ParNet SANA-II driver I can cheaply network my two amigas at home? If so I am
thrilled!
..Carl
Be thrilled.
But note that you need a special "parnet" cable, not a standard parallel
cable.
A "parnet" SANA-II device driver is available via FTP from Aminet sites as
comm/net/spar371.lha. I'll try to remember to grab it then upload it
here. Assuming that this file works as advertised (I haven't tried it),
it'd be a cinch.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale,
I'd be interested as well.
Brian
bjbart@watserv.ucr.edu
I just uploaded "spar37.lha" to the communications section of the library.
I haven't tested this with Envoy, and from taking a quick look at the docs
and source, it appears that it may not work as-is. If not, it should be a
quick fix I can easily do myself, but I've sent a note to the authors of
spar offering to provide them with Envoy for testing.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale,
thanks!
Brian
bjbart@watserv.ucr.edu
Dale…
I'm thrilled :^). Now a really wierd question. I have AMAX and EMPLANT (when
I finally get it working) on my A3000. Will I be able to network my A1000 as a
workstation using/running one of these?
..Carl
I don't know that your question is "really wierd," though that may be
because I don't understand it. 🙂
If you mean "can I use AppleTalk (from the Mac emulation provided by AMAX
and EMPLANT) to communicate with an Amiga using Amiga Envoy" the answer is
"no, not without additional software on the Amiga side (specifically,
AppleTalk software)."
Amiga Envoy only provides for Amigas communicating with Amigas. If you
have other software (such as AS225r2) that allows Amigas to communicate
with non-Amigas, you may be able to run both pieces of software at the
same time on the same Amiga over the same hardware.
For example, I have one Ethernet network consisting of several Amigas,
each with one A2065. One of the Amigas runs Unix and only uses TCP/IP for
networking. The other Amigas run Amiga Envoy to communicate amongst
themselves and are also running TCP/IP to allow communications with the
Unix machine. On the machine I'm at now, I have a hard drive partition
mounted from another Amiga via Envoy, and a couple of NFS mounts (via
AS225r2) of directories from the Unix machine. Each of these mounts is
accesable via a "disk" icon on the Workbench and/or through filerequesters
or the shell and I basically can't tell that they come from over the
network or that they are coming through different network software.
If your question is "Can my A1000 use Amiga Envoy?" the answer is "see the
REQUIREMENTS section of the announcement." Amiga Envoy requires at least
2.04. It prefers more than 512k of memory (since it is assumed that you
want to run applications in addition to Amiga Envoy). If you have a
sufficiently tricked out A1000, it should be no problem.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale…
Well I may end up having to buy my wife a 1200 or something similar in order to
Network our two computers. I guess the A1000 had to run out of usefullness at
some point.
Thanks for the indepth response.
..Carl
Why would you say that? With Parnet, my 1000 has extended its life
significantly. Having a virtual hard drive on the system with extremely
fast response has been a great asset.
— John A. Toebes, VIII — Obvious Implementations Corp.
— Internet: toebes@oic.com
John…
I said it just out of a bit of frustration. <g> After all what other Amiga
has the signatures of the original AMIGA developers etched into the cover? The
frustration part comes from having to find time to get all this up and running.
Right now I have an Emplant board in my A3000 that I haven t gotten working for
about 4 or 5 months. I also have AMAX and can't get it to print to my DJet
500. Now because my wife is teaching Journalism and they have Macs at school
she wants on my computer all the time since she cannot stand the flicker on the
1080's screen while working in AMAX. :^)
So as you can see I just let out a burst of steam. I have been considering
hooking a Parnet cable between the two and trying to get it running I just
haven't had the time to build the darn cable!
Mayby next week. :^)
..Carl
Dale:
Is this the plip.device that was floating around earlier this year, or is
it something newer?
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
I don't think I've run across the plip.device. Since there are two or
three SLIP (serial) devices floating around, I don't see why there
shouldn't be at least two "parnet" devices as well.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale:
If you'd like I'll try and find the original archive (I think it has docs
& source, but I might be wrong) of the plip.device, and email it to you.
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
Posting to the forum libraries would be more useful than emailing to me!
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale:
Ok, I wasn't sure if you wanted to look at it first to check that it would
work with Envoy. I'll upload it as soon as I find it. 🙂
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
Dale,
Thanks for the info. I will probably have to go for a serial connection
because of the distance between the two systems but I will check out the
parallel s/w.
Andrew
Yowza! I'm keen. I've been talking to folks at Commodore Canada about
peer-to-peer networking for a while and the promised software seemed
to have gone into limbo. So I'm delighted to see something has
surfaced. I don't have any hardware, though. What would you
recommend?
>I don't have any hardware, though. What would you recommend?
That depends entirely on what your budget and needs are. Personally,
I'm using Ethernet cards because speed, standards and the ability to
communicate with non-Amigas is important to me. (Envoy won't, by
itself, allow you to communicate with non-Amigas.)
Dale,
How does Envoy compare with Interworks' ENLAN stuff?
I haven't used the ENLAN stuff for quite a while, so I haven't made a
detailed and direct comparison. What I do know is that ENLAN has good
telephone support and an established track record, but is dramatically
more expensive. ENLAN is probably a little more resource-hungry than
Amiga Envoy (i.e., uses more memory). Amiga Envoy was designed to be an
extension to the Amiga OS that would eventually be fully incorporated into
the OS. It was meant to become part of every Amiga system. Among other
advantages that provides, many new applications will likely take advantage
Amiga Envoy's API.
ENLAN is probably still a good choice for the professional market that can
afford it. I think that Amiga Envoy is the networking software for the
masses.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Thanks for that balanced and helpful reply!
From the postings that I have seen on Usenet (I would have to dig them
up), Envoy was significantly slower than Enlan. Enlan has been
established and supported for quite a while. Envoy really hasn't seen
much in the field.
— John A. Toebes, VIII — Obvious Implementations Corp.
— Internet: toebes@oic.com
Barbara;
If you can afford the ethernet interface cards, it is definately the way
to go. Envoy's performance over ethernet is such that you will at times
forget that the drive that you are working with is not on your machine!
-bill
>Envoy's performance over ethernet is such that you will at times forget
>that the drive that you are working with is not on your machine!
Can I put that quote on the packaging? 🙂
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Sure! I would willingly testify in court that I have actually made
configuration changes to the files on a drive only to discover to my shock
that I had just reconfigured the remote machine rather than the local
one!
It was always a mixed reaction. I was disappointed that I was so careless
but then was amazed to realize that I actually did not notice a slower
response.
-bill
The other shocker is to launch some massive program across the network,
wonder at why your configuration is some much like the "other" machine is
set up and then discover why 🙂
-bill
Excellent!!! I was thinking about Oxxi's solution….. not now,
unless they do SANA II so that I can use your solution as well.
They've said that they are thinking about it, and I've made myself
available to them if they have questions about implementing SANA-II
(since I was principle author of the current spec).
Kudos!!
Great Dale! Glad to see that you "have it out the door".
-bill
Dale,
I will be ordering this product. You say it will run concurrently with
AS225? I have 2 Amigas on a Unix network at my business. AS225r2 would
also be great. Faster FTP, NFS client/server, revved VTLogin and better
docs would be a big help.
You HAVE been busy. I'm glad you have pried these products loose.
Goin' AP
…..Mark Sterling
It will not run concurently with AS225r1. It does run concurently with
AS225r2. I use Envoy and AS225r2 with my Amigas and Unix box here.
Unfortunately, I have not yet been able to make AS225r2 available to
end-users.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale,
Good luck with getting AS225r2 turned loose. I had heard it was all but
finished last Spring.
I still will be ordering Envoy on Monday. How does it compare to
Enlan-DFS in functionality? Isn't Enlan a Decnet based product?
Goin' AP
…..Mark Sterling
It's been usable a lot longer than that as a SANA-II complaint, shared
library-API bug-fix upgrade, but new features were added. Amiga Envoy was
also ready a long time before it was available.
I don't have a spec sheet on Enlan (I did when I was at C=, but haven't
picked one up yet). I think, though, that they have pretty much identical
functionality. I know that TSSNet is DECnet-based, but I'm not 100% sure
about Enlan. See also my response to Wes Beam in which I conclude that
Enlan is probably still a good choice for the professional users that can
afford it but that Envoy is really meant for the masses and for new
application development.
If you'll be ordering on Monday, you'll have to email for more
information. Amiga Envoy isn't in the distributor channel yet, and
AmigaUser Forum Rules prohibit me from positing specific ordering
instructions (which is why the special version of the announcement and the
request not to distribute the incomplete announcement outside of CIS).
I'm not sure what AmigaUser Forum rules would say about someone not
associated with the product posting what they find out about ordering…
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale –
Not sure, but I think the forum rules would allow you to upload a text
file with more detail info included and then you could slip in info about
ordering.
OnLine since 1982
Roy Pahnke – Casper WY
Dale,
Feel free to upload a complete press release, with ordering information to
the library, and then point people to that file when the ask for more
information.
OK, thanks. I just uploaded the full version of the announcement which
contains ordering information (and which can be freely posted to BBS's or
other online services).
I had already uploaded the posted CIS AmigaUser forum version (for when
the annoucement scrolled off). Both uploads were called "envoy.txt" and I
don't know how to delete the old one from AP.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale,
if you upload a file with the same name and the same userid, it'll
overwrite the previous version.
Brian
bjbart@watserv.ucr.edu
Dale,
You are permitted to put a text file in the libraries that give more
details about obtaining your product. Your file description needs to make
it plain that you have included such details in the file. It's much
better than doing it in a message, since it will stay in the libraries for
at least six months, but a message would probably scroll off within a
week. I believe Library 4 of AmigaUser is the proper place.
—Betty
Very interesting! As someone whose company was formerly involved with Amiga
networking, (Syndesis sold all interest in TSSnet a year ago) I was at first
rather suspicious of how the rights to Envoy were transferred to your company.
Knowing how cagey CBM has been about networking efforts in the past, how did
you manage to wrestle it from them? Which other products are they handing out
to third parties? I've heard about the 4091.
This reminded me of how I was rather miffed at the way Alan Brooks of
InterWorks was able to promote and sell an Amiga networking product at the same
time he was working for Commodore. I know, you don't work there any longer;
the situations are different.
But at $60, it's a steal and I can't imagine how you could be making any money
at it. 🙂 I hope you can pick up and maintain the AS225 TCP/IP software,
too. I reported some 'ftp' bugs to CATS but I guess my developer fee doesn't
buy much these days. And did anyone ever make a SANA driver for the old Hydra
board? I've got one of those collecting dust in the basement. And I've
forgotten what AmiLink is… can you refresh my memory?
>I was at first rather suspicious of how the rights to Envoy were
>transferred to your company. Knowing how cagey CBM has been about
>networking efforts in the past, how did you manage to wrestle it from
>them?
The rights to Amiga Envoy haven't been transfered to my company — I've
only been given a license to distribute software still owned and
copyrighted by Commodore.
I don't know that I would describe Commodore as having been "cagey about
networking efforts." Certainly the engineers of the Amiga Networking
Group tried to work with third parties and to encourage their products.
All we wanted was for Amigas to be able to talk to the world, and we
didn't much care how that happened. Perhaps there were some other
obstructionists I wasn't aware of.
As far as "wrestling" Amiga Envoy from C=, I didn't need to. Soon after
leaving Commodore I heard that no further work was being done with Envoy,
but that they wanted to release the software (which had been ready for a
while). Since I knew there was no documentation and noone to write it, I
started working on it. I expected that I would sell a stand-alone book
about Amiga networking generally. It would also contain detailed
instructions for Amiga Envoy. (I still plan to do an "Amiga Networking
Handbook.") When I found out that I could license the software, I
eventually decided that I wanted to make Envoy available inexpensively.
>was able to promote and sell an Amiga networking product at
>the same time he was working for Commodore. I know, you don't work there
>any longer; the situations are different.
I didn't receive any preferential treatment. I've always been the type
who is careful (paranoid?) about possible conflicts of interest and the
like. I may not be as financially well off as I otherwise could be, but I
sleep better at night. 🙂
>But at $60, it's a steal and I can't imagine how you could be making any
>money at it. 🙂 I hope you can pick up and maintain the AS225 TCP/IP
>software, too.
My hope is that everyone who needs Amiga peer-to-peer networking will be
able to use Amiga Envoy. That's what it was made for.
I also hope to be able to distribute AS225r2 in the near future, but
licensing arangements are more complex since AS225 contains Berkeley code,
etc.
>I reported some 'ftp' bugs to CATS but I guess my developer fee doesn't
>buy much these days.
Well, it never did buy bug fixes. 🙂
>And did anyone ever make a SANA driver for the old Hydra board?
You know, I think somebody did, but I really don't know how to track it
down.
>And I've forgotten what AmiLink is… can you refresh my memory?
AmiLink is a recently announced product which uses floppy ports to provide
a proprietary DMA networking solution. It uses standard Ethernet-type
coax cable, T's and terminators, but is not compatible with Ethernet. I
believe the announced price is list $119 each. It's been sold in Germany
for a while, but they now have a US distributor (Spectronics).
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Thanks for the background! Good luck on securing a license to distribute
AS225, too. The bug I saw that that 'ftp' didn't read commands properly from
'stdin'. I had hoped to drive it from an ARexx script to automate the movement
of entire file subdirectories from machine to machine. The problem was, it
would read some of the commands, then it seemed it would read another bufferful
of junk beyond the end of file. Hey, just give it an ARexx port instead. 🙂
I have an Amiga, two PCs and a Mac on a TCP/IP network. I'm in the midst of
setting up the newest PC to run DOS, Windows, Windows NT and Linux. WinNT
includes TCP/IP and 'ftp', so far it's worked fine. Under DOS and the Mac, I
run the NCSA 'telnet' packages.
I think that somebody has done another Berkeley FTP port which will work
with either AmiTCP or AS225. I frankly don't remember the status of bug
fixes in the latest (unreleased) AS225r2, but I'll presumably be able to
get access to the bug database and release notes if/when I license
AS225r2.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale —
If/when you get access to AS225r2, I would be _extremely_ interested in
obtaining a copy. Right now I am interfacing a PC (w OS/2) and an Ami via
Ethernet and TCP/IP. NFS client/server capability would really simplify my
backup procedures. Do you know if AS225r2 supports remote print as well as NFS
client/server.
\ /
Bob @O 04-Dec-93 19:36
I don't recall for sure whether AS225r2 includes a printer daemon and
client, but I know someone else has writien one.
To be honest with you, the NFS server capability in AS225r2 is necessarily
quite a kludge — the NFS standard is pretty Unix-centric and doesn't map
well to the Amiga. It's in there for those who insist, but I'd do what I
could to avoid it — a tape drive really doesn't cost that much,
especially a used or refurbished one.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Well, the reason I'd like to use NFS server on the Amiga is so that I
won't have to lug my CD-ROM drive from machine to machine, and so I can
access this 1gig drive from the other machines in the network. If you
licensed the AS225r2 code, would you expect to include the NFS server in a
distribution from your company?
Steve
Steve,
I do know that the beta versions of AS225r2 had both client and server
NFS of some sort. Hopefully it is in good enough shape to be useful and
released with the rest of the package. I spent some time talking to a
then-employed software engineer at C= last spring and he assured me that
NFS and Envoy were working well even as we spoke. He suggested that
AS225r2 mostly lacked a manual and that he doubted it would be written any
time soon.
At least Envoy is available and hopefully TCP/IP will also come loose.
BTW I ordered Envoy today:
List Price: $59.95 (2-user), includes shipping in the continental US, add
sales tax in PA or add $10 for shipments outside the continental US
I sent my check to: Intangible Assets Manufacturing
828 Ormond Avenue
Drexel Hill, PA 19026-2604
USA
I can't wait to get it. Sounds like a product that really SHOULD be part
of AmigaDos. No I don't work for IAM (my bookkeeper even spelled the name
wrong on the check I sent today).
Goin' AP
…..Mark Sterling
Since the other machines in the network here are home aren't Amigas
(yow!), I have to settle with TCP/IP. The next Amiga that gets added will
likely be connected to this Amiga with Envoy though.
Steve
Steve,
I'm using TCP/IP to connect two Amigas at work to my UNIX system. We
mostly use Rlogin to connect as terminals for running Unix Programs but
also use FTP for file transfers. It will be nice to be able to share files
easily between the two Amigas with Envoy. At home I have an Amiga and a
486 clone but I don't really have a great need to network them.
Goin' AP
…..Mark Sterling
I would likely distribute everything I could license.
You would likely not be happy with the NFS server. If you really want the
long technical details, I could bore you with them.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
I'm "real life" (ha!) I've done work in various networking products.
TCP/IP, ethernet drivers, OSI stuff… I've even done time in NFS code.
Go ahead and explain away, you won't bore me! 🙂
Steve
Well, I was thinking about everyone else… 🙂
Since you've "done time in NFS code," I'll make it short and cryptic.
NFS expects something that looks like Inodes which can be used to uniquely
identify files. Why does it have to be something like Inodes? There isn't
enough room to specify full pathnames. Of course, the only way to
uniquely identify files on the Amiga is with a full pathname.
So an NFS server on an Amiga has to build it's own database of unique file
IDs. For a CD-ROM or a gig drive, that's a pretty large database. And it
has to be rebuilt from scratch if you add to the drive from outside an NFS
mount (i.e., the normal way). All this sucks to set up and to run and
makes things somewhat slower than they need to be.
I seem to remember that it was a lot worse in the begining and that some
improvements were made to the kludge (making it more palatable), but the
initial bad taste it left in my mouth has kept me from looking at the NFS
server for quite a while (more than a year). Obviously, when Commodore is
ready to license AS25r2 to me, I'll have to give another look at the whole
thing.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
> I don't recall for sure whether AS225r2 includes a printer daemon
> and client, but I know someone else has writien one.
>
Do you happen to know where I would find the printer daemon and client? If
it's somewhere on the Internet, that's fine, as I can get it from there.
> a tape drive really doesn't cost that much, especially a used or
> refurbished one.
>
I know, but I've got a 2GB tape backup on the PC, and I really dislike having
to duplicate hardware. Oh well, I guess that I'll have to go to the next
Computer Fair.
BobS 07-Dec-93 19:46
I don't know exactly where to get printer stuff for AS225r2 right now, but
I'm sure I will once I can license AS225r2. I would expect to upload
quite a few freely redistributable things to the libraries here.
An alternate solution for your tape probablem might be to NFS export the
tape drive, if you can mount the tape drive as a filesytem.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
> An alternate solution for your tape probablem might be to NFS
> export the tape drive, if you can mount the tape drive as a
> filesytem.
>
>
The tape drive is not exportable, or at least I haven't found any way to do it.
It doesn't have a drive letter on the PC. It's accessed via a driver that
doesn't provide one.
BobS 08-Dec-93 19:06
I'm sure that there is PC software analogous to Moonlighters TapeWorm(?)
for the Amiga.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com