#Autodesk Confirms NT 3ds
73 messages in this thread
> Author: Bob Bennett
> Date: 2/9/95 4:29 PM
>
> This week we finally confirmed what many people had concluded on their
> own – that 3D Studio will be moving WIN NT. We are purposely sketchy
> on timeframe but can state publicly that it will be around the end of
> the year. There is lots to look forward to and hopefully this
> confirmation will help people to plan, make purchasing decisions re:
> NT etc. The additional benefits of NT are well known and we all think it
> will be an excellent environment for 3DS.
>
> Bob Bennett
Thanks for uploading Bob's note, Jonas. I'm glad that the cat is
finally out of the bag. (Anna, you never had any doubts, did ya?)
Note that Bob has made it very clear to me that this is ALL we're
allowed to publicly discuss until Siggraph.
From someone who has been using WinNT for about 18 months, I'll add
that everyone should make the switch now, it certainly is worth it. I
have a real problem switching back to a machine running WFWG. You
get used to doing several things at once. Now all I have to do is
wait and wait. 🙂
>> I'll add that everyone should make the switch now, it certainly is
>> worth it.
If you don't mind, please tell me/us some of the good points of
Windows NT. I am serious. I would like to know. Most of what I
have heard is negative.
Dennis,
I'd be more than happy. First off I won't address speed issues. I
have a hard enough time trying to keep the beat to the music let alone
trying to see if this program runs faster in NT as opposed to OS/2. After all
what is a nano second anyway.
The real advantage for me is the multitasking. I often thought, Why
would you want to do more than one thing at a time, after all you only
have two hands to type with. Well, where this becomes an advantage is
when the computer is doing something for you that needs no input from
you. For example, if I am on the internet downloading some article or
some other research, I can continue to write my script or if a new
client calls, I can enter information into a call-sheet. These are
simple examples but once you have lived with the ability to do this,
it becomes second nature.
Now lets extend this to 3DS, Say you are working on a project and you are
getting close to final render time, but you are still looking for that perfect
texture map. You start to render the scene one more time and then you click on
wincim and log onto the 3DS forum. While you are reading the messages you
notice that someone else is doing a similar object and has what seems to be
the perfect texture map. You drop them an e-mail and they, of course, happen
to be online and agree to send you the map. You drop back to basic services
and wait for the e-mail. Now lets go and see how 3DS is doing with the render.
Still cranking. Oh my goodness, you just remembered that you need to get that
budget out to the client today. Open your word processor and the fingers begin
to fly. You hear a beep and look at the WINCIM Icon and the map is your
mailbox. Start the spell checker and switch back to WINCIM to get your mail.
Now close WINCIM and stop the rendering in 3DS and replace the map and do a
window render to check the look. Back to the proposal, call up the price list
from Access and drop them into Excel, massage and drop into Word finish up and
FAX to the client. Meanwhile 3DS is done with the rendering and everthing
looks great. Start the final render. Now you need to thank the guy for the
map, but the FAX is still going through, oh well, pop open Freecell and start a
new game.
In my opinion this is the way computers should have always worked. You don't
have to wait for one thing to finish to begin another.
I'm sure Gus could give you a million other reasons and the OS/2 guys will tell
you how they have been doing this and running 3DS, but that is a moot point
when it goes NT.
Get a copy and start playing, if you do alot of things in windows now, you
won't regret it.
Fred
Fred;
Thanks for the very excellent explanation. I have just recently been able to
do that in UNIX on workstations where I work. If NT does that now, it is what
I want. I do understand. I constantly am working on a project and someone
comes over and want something from another application. In UNIX, you just open
it up and work like you say. If you can background render, it is for me.
Thanks again,
Dennis
Fred,
>> but you are still looking for that perfect texture map. <<
I love your scenario! Very 21st Century!!!
John
Fred,
PMJI, how well do standard WFW apps function? I'm thinking of progs like
MS Office (Excel, Word, etc.). Do you use Painter3 in NT?
JDH
Jeffery,
Again, I won't go into speed related issues, but all of my apps run just fine.
When I first loaded WinNT 3.1 I did have some speed problems and some driver
problems, but I worked around them. With WinNT 3.5, Most of these have cleared
up. It is true that NT needs a fair amount of hardware, but so does 3DS. If
you can run 3DS without much problem, you can run NT.
I consult with a lot of people and I have to try alot different software
packages, and very few have not worked under NT. I read a reveiw recently that
MS Word for NT was ready but that it was slower then regular word. So I might
pass this first round, but as the user base grows and the power apps begin to
migrate, I'm sure that we will see all of the potential. It sure will help to
add the 50,000 3DS users to the base.
Fred
Fred,
>> all of my apps run just fine.
Thanks for the info.
JDH
> From someone who has been using WinNT for about 18 months, I'll add
that everyone should make the switch now, <
I'd love to, but the current incarnation of 3DS doesn't run under
NTto my knowledge. I am looking forward to it though.
James,
Your right, 3DS doesn't run under NT. You can however, dual boot your machine.
You can have one boot for plain old DOS, one for WinNT.
Not a perfect world, Yet. 🙂
Fred
> Your right, 3DS doesn't run under NT. You can however, dual boot your
machine. You can have one boot for plain old DOS, one for WinNT. <
Hey, do you think I could Tri boot my machine? I currently dual boot with
OS/2, since Photoshop doesn't run under OS/2. I don't see why it wouldn't
work. If I always used DOS as the inbetween between NT and OS/2 maybe I could
make it work. Three operating systems on one machine! OK, so I'm crazy, but
I'll probably try it anyway.
— James — Choreo Motion —
Maybe I could get Linux and try to quad boot (naw, just kidding).
James,
My original reply had the tri-boot scenario, but I figured I would give you
some final ammo for OS/2. If you have the room, why not.
Good Luck
Fred
Isn't there an NT version of Photoshop?
Darn, where's the fun in mentioning rumors in print when you guys go
and confirm them before the magazine even comes out ? <GRIN> Scooped
again !
Sorry to scoop you twice in one week, Bruce! <g>
Can you disscuss how this will affect existing IPAS routines?
I can't discuss it in any further detail until Siggraph, Ian. Sorry.
– G
Gary . will we dos people still be able to run the new ver? or is it
a new ver ? or is ir just for nt? will there be any new functions in
the nt ver vs. dos? i don't like nt. idon't like os/2 i LIKE the dos
ver.!!!. its easy to install, production work goes real fast , and
its east to use. WITH DOS. i don't like windows, i don't even like
being able to HAVE to use windows, i'm a power user, and just don't
like a GUI/MOUSE having control. i like the C: prompt i like being
able to CONTROL my machine.
please tell my i'm having a nightmare here! i… i …. really don't
like being out of control of the machine. i… i….. gits…..zzzzip
pooop! zeeemiiiiii!!!! ….. pooooofffff….. AHHHHHH.
YES …. YES …… I SEEEEEEEE it now WINDO WS/NT……… YES ….
YES …… i will obey…. i willlll obey i'm in line now ….. calm
…. and waiting for your next order. sir.
sherwood animations
zip….. zammeee…… yit ….. fr…AT…..zimmmmmmm….poof.
>> YES …. YES …… i will obey…. i willlll obey i'm in line now
Very good Sherwood…..This isn't going to hurt a bit. Really, it
won't. (Hold him down guys! Get the straight jacket! STAT!) <G>
PMJI, but I liked your response. I don't know what to think of
Windows NT. I personally like DOS also, but I am liking UNIX even
more. If Windows NT will work similar to UNIX in it's ability to
multitask, I might like it.
Dennis
<g> Although I'm not authorized to answer any additional questions
about it, I can say this… If NT wasn't capable of supporting fast
and reliable production work, I wouldn't be developing for it now. If
it didn't offer 3DS users MANY improvements over DOS, I wouldn't be
making the switch.
The truth is that NT makes many things possible for us that we could
only imagine under DOS. When I get a chance to show it to you at
Siggraph, you'll understand EVERYTHING.
>> If NT wasn't capable of supporting fast and reliable production work,
>> I wouldn't be developing for it now.
I was looking at NT in a local store yesterday. What I saw was
Windows NT (client). I have heard of Windows 95. I think there
might be another one also? Which one are you coding for? Or are
they the same?
<< I was looking at NT in a local store yesterday. … Or are they the
same? >>
My recommendation to anyone who really want's to know the details is
to find an archive of Microsoft System Journals that have a start
date of 14 months ago to the present. Each month's issue of MSJ has
had several NT related articles and there are several various
comparisons of NT to Win95. Even if you're not a programmer, this
magazine is good reading.
Jonas
>> Microsoft System Journals
Thanks,
Dennis
I would be happy to consult somebody on site.
Chris Norman
AM Labs.
Hi Dennis,
Windows NT has been around for a couple of years already. It has
recently been upgraded to version 3.5. The "client" version you saw
is frequently referred to as Windows NT Workstation……there is a
Windows NT Server package that would be used on network servers.
Windows 95 is supposed to be the revolutionary upgrade to Windows 3.1
and Windows for Workgroups. Unfortunately Windows 95 has been delayed
so many times that many people have decided not to wait any longer
and go with the tried and true Windows NT Workstation (client) 3.5.
As with most "revolutionary" products, hardware compatibility,
drivers, etc. will be a big issue.
I am glad to see 3DS go to the NT environment over the Windows 95
environment mainly because of stability of the NT Operating System.
Not to say NT is perfect…..it does have some problems and driver
limitations, etc. as well, however, because of increased demand, we
will likely see most mainstream developers have products that are NT
capable.
>> Windows NT Workstation….I am glad to see 3DS go to the NT
environment
Thanks for your explanation. It does help.
Gary: <if NT wasn't capable of supporting fast and reliable
procuction work, I wouldn't be developing for it now> Yes, I believe
that totally. However, borrowing one of your recent expressions
"where the rubber meets the road"… I finally fully expanded my IPAS
Library and TRUST that not only the YOST IPAS DISKS but all other
THIRD PARTY developers will have a very reasonable upgrade path for
whichever routines require upgrading. It is hard enough seeing some
of my recently acquired IPAS routines become outdated<BG> but i just
grumble and figure out some whacko travelling masks and post tricks
to compensate. That's fun. BUT PLEASE, don't make me pay a lot for
these mufflers. BTW, are we supposed to have special candlelight
fairwells to DOS and PHARLAP (tears welling up)? [I openly admit to
being a tiny bit panic stricken, as everything is running so well, so
compatible, and hell… I know I know, everything will be ok
everthing will be allright.
Change is always difficult, but without change there is stagnation,
and that's unacceptable to me. Onward into the future!
Gary: <without change there is stagnation> Couldn't agree with you
more. Besides, I really hate mosquitoes. However, when I have to
pull my IPAS library through and "onward into the future" I certainly
hope it does not sting too much! Oh hell, I'll shut-up and enjoy the
ride [sniffing for evidence of P6 & GLINT] [multi-chip/mega RAM
configs][planning my activities around something other than render
runs]. Jeffrey
As usual, we'll try to make it sting as little as possible.
– G
>sniffing for evidence of P6 & GLINT] [multi-chip/mega RAM configs][planning my
activities around something other than render runs]<
Jeffrey, I've got something that will give 3D Studio all of this, but need help
persuading Garry that it is worth his while going for it. Could you convince
him?
Rich
Rich: <but need help persuading Gary… Could you convince him> What gives me
the power to convince Gary? If you have a hot product that can do the do, find
a way to slip it into his cage. Gary seems very open to brilliance of any kind.
Keep in mind that NT will support multi-threading and Open-GL, so the realm of
3-D acceleration is hot real-estate. If you have some sort of breakthrough code
and chip-set you better get on your pony and ride. Someone will go for it.
Jeffrey
Richard, regarding your Taos operating system (and all operating system
discussions), you'd best go straight to Bob Bennett (the 3D Studio product
manager) at bobb@autodesk.com.
– G (with only 1 r)
Hopefully we'll see DPS and others writing drivers for the PAR under
NT fairly soon…. I can only imagine what you have in mind for your
future….this oughta be good <G>!
<<Change is always difficult, but without change there is stagnation, and
that's unacceptable to me.>>
Damn right! With that attitude 3DS R5 is going to be pushing the frontier. I am
fully prepared to update both my hardware and software if the program lives up
to my expectations. I think that everyone else will do the same. With your
approach we will always be getting the best tools from the best creative minds.
Keep at it!
<<Onward into the future!>>
I'm right behind you, or at least a few steps behind you. You walk quite fast.
<g>
David "Rolling stone with STONE.SXP" Gould
So what do you think would be a reasonable upgrade price for an IPAS? Let's say
it was $200 for the DOS version. How much should you pay to get the WinNT
version?
From the developer's point of view, unless there's some kind of magic
DOS->WinNT compatibility library for the user interface in the yet-unreleased
IPAS dev kit, it's going to mean a fair amount of new development to make the
WinNT version, and since not everyone will upgrade, they'll still have to sell
both DOS and WinNT versions.
And what if you're still free to run the DOS version on one machine, and the
WinNT version on another? Do you need to buy two copies of the IPAS?
John: It does not really directly relate to one IPAS or how much that IPAS or
disc cost. It relates more to the general code mods and basic IPAS groups, and
the fact that these code mods will be spread across a user group. How much do
all the IPAS routines share in common with regard to having to be updated to
run on NT? How many IPAS routines fall into exactly the same fix, etc etc. Once
this essential scenario is known, then a more informed reply to your post can
be made.
<<From the developer's point of view, unless there's some kind of magic
DOS->WinNT compatibility library for the user interface in the yet-unreleased
IPAS dev kit, it's going to mean a fair amount of new development to make the
WinNT version, and since not everyone will upgrade, they'll still have to sell
both DOS and WinNT versions.>>
Why not use Phar Lap TNT? From a magazine publicity:
"Phar Lap's new TNT DOS-Extender lets you break the 640K barrier, build
multimegabyte DOS applications and take advantage of powerful NT features.
Implement threads, DLLs and multitasking with your familiar Microsoft
Development tools…You can use TNT DOS-Extender to build versatile 32 bit
programs that can access up to two megabytes of memory and run under DOS,
Windows 3.1, or Windows NT…TNT DOS-Extender also supports powerful NT
features such as dynamic link libraries and threads, enabling developers to
build modular, responsive multi-megabyte applications."
David "EXPLODE" Gould
Yes, I've seen that. It's not a cure-all for this problem, though. It looks
like TNT might let you make a single 32-bit executable that can run under those
environments, but I don't think it answers all the questions relating to user
interface. For example, can the same binary invoke the IPAS GUI functions as
well as making it possible to open a Windows-style dialog? Even if it's
possible, it may be clumsy. I'm sure the Yost Group has examined this problem
and solved it, except they're not talking yet. 🙂
The one thing you can count on is that we're choosing not to do anything
'clumsy' with the developer API. If the decision is between changing the way
we do some things OR being clumsy, I'm going the elegant route.
– G
<<For example, can the same binary invoke the IPAS GUI functions as well as
making it possible to open a Windows-style dialog?>>
Since I'm not an IPAS programmer but a programmer nevertheless I would say that
the Yost Group could most likely map the IPAS GUI functions to their Windows
equivalents. So when you called the IPAS GUI when recompiled with IPAS NT<g>
all your previous function calls are linked instead to functions that display
Windows interface elements rather than the previous DOS interface elements.
This level of abstraction is possible. Though I believe that this would only be
an interim solution thereby allowing existing IPAS programs to function under
Release 5. The true power will come when the IPAS routines are designed and
developed specifically to take advantage of the features of Windows NT;
multithreading in particular.
David "Sticky and GUI" Gould
as always , i will listen to a master and his words, i will learn new
things and be very humble, this is the way things will go<g>
YOU have never EVER let me down , or my clients , so i will wait and
see. I believe in you Gary, and the way your taking 3ds.
if it wasn't for you , i would not be making a living right now, so as
i put down 30 grand on a new ferrari, i will request the the plates
be " 2 yost" and i will very gently tap the bottle of wine on the
fender. as i raise a glass to you Gary.
you made it possible and after 5 years or so of 3ds i want YOU to know
that i really appreciate, YOU and your TEAM, you have made / created/
a new industry and i'm proud to be a part of it . thank you
sherwood egbert (sherwood animations)
>> you made it possible and after 5 years or so of 3ds i want YOU to know that
i really appreciate, YOU and your TEAM…. <<
Well said David.
FWIW Gary, when I met David we were both working with DGS, he'd also
bought 3DS R1 and he kept telling me, wait until R2 comes out, just
wait until R2 comes out! I was skeptical. Seriously. But sure
enough David knew. I was suprised. It blew me away. So I switched.
<g> His insistance that it was going to be the greatest, made me take
a closer look, and I never regretted it.
So thanks David, never got a chance, but sincerely Thanks!
John: I have to chime in with you and David in the toast to Gary. My
own tendancy to sarcasm would have never made it possible to type out
an entire statement as well and honestly put as David's<VBG>. I also
started on R1, and was marveled by the depth of code in the core
package. I started saying "this platform is going to be at the top of
the heap in a few years". So here we go::::: seeing big things.
Jeffrey,
>> to type out an entire statement as well and honestly put as David's <VBG>.
<<
Well I talk up 3DS all the time, so I don't think it means as much as when we
hear the occassional burst from Sherwood Animations; I guess we're both in the
same boat for different reasons. <G>
Here's to ya Jeffrey! I know we're a bunch of fanatics, so what else could I
possibly add? <G>
>> So here we go::::: <<
Actually that says it all.
John
Awww…. From one mutant nerd to another, that was a very sweet thing
to say. <g> (Likewise to John and Jeffrey.)
Drive carefully!
Varoom,
– G
Now just what is that supposed to insinuate?
<G>
Varoom-Varoom….
Chris Norman
AM Labs
Dallas, Tx
That's the sound of Sherwood's new Ferrari!
– G
>> That's the sound of Sherwood's new Ferrari! <<
Can't wait to see those new plates, eh? 🙂
John
Uh… like 31 processor support?
Uh… like built in network protocol packet drivers?
uh… like C2 security?
Uh… like, if it's a native NT app., you're going to be able to get *REAL*
nasty with ALPHA's?
Uh… like built in TCP/IP support? (Imagine connecting your NT 3.5 client to
the internet and offering a rendering service![yes, it is possible and yes I am
hoping to do it])
Personally, I have been waiting for this. I used to be a command-line junkie,
but 3.5 is a _very_ nice OS.
NT will run on VERY POWERFUL HARDWARE PLATFORMS!
I understand AutoD's and Yost's waiting to anounce this, and I think you all
have made an excelent choice.
If you need a Beta site, let me know. We're Microsoft Level 2 developers, and
we run a 15 client/ 4 server MS network for SW development and for inhouse
rendering.
Shivering like an excited puppy….
Chris Norman
Lead Animator
AM Labs
Dallas, Tx
214) 960- 6862
gary,
in a former life, i spent five years running an sgi box using unix and alias.
i spent many a fine moment opening multiple windows and doing all kinds of
housekeeping, deleting old junk, and innumerable jobs watching in amazement
that the bloody thing could keep up with all the various tasks it was givin.
imagine my surprise at having to return to ms-dos (just say no!) and find out i
could do ONE thing at a time! i'm farily certain that i'm going to have to
replace the c, d, /, \ keys on the keyboard any day now!
most definitely look forward to multi-tasking as soon as you can unleash to
beast.
ever onward, ever upward.
michael
>>I can't discuss it in any further detail until Siggraph, Ian. Sorry.
I'll Stay tuned.
Ian.
<MEOW>! <g>
-Alan
Glad to hear the news, what a relief. I'm hoping I can be at SIGGRAPH
more than ever now.
>>….NT…….
Dual Pentiums here we come, better yet 768 Mbytes of RAM!!! (guess
this makes SIGGRAPH a must!)
Will 3DS still run under DOS? If it requires a genuine 32 Bit system
will it run under OS/2? Also the Russians have written a 32 Bit DOS
(available in Germany I understand) that I might use.
Sorry Judy… I can't say anymore than I've already said. The only
folks who would be authorized to say more would be the president of
Autodesk and the VP of the MM division.
"Anna, you never had any doubts, did ya?"
You bet 🙂
ah! This just have came in the probervial last minute.
ana /ki
<< This week we finally confirmed what many people had concluded on their
> own – that 3D Studio will be moving WIN NT. >>
I am very pleased to have this "rumor" confirmed 'way in advance….a
very good move. Much appreciated,
Thanks for letting us know in advance. It really helps to plan things out
ahead of time instead of waiting around and guessing what type of systems to
invest in.
Andrew Sinagra
Digital Art & Motion
Hi Andrew,
<< ..RISC..>>
"Note that Bob has made it very clear to me that this is ALL we're
allowed to publicly discuss until Siggraph.
Hey Jonas,
<< ..RISC..>>
It was worth a shot… <g>.
Andrew Sinagra
Digital Art & Motion
I can't tell you how happy this makes me Jonas! We will be increasing our
network substantially this year and life just became a whole lot easier!
Earl
One more thing…. If you can tell us, will there be a version
optimized for the RISC chip?????
AHhh…… It's like a weight off my shoulders. Finally, my NT
experience will pay off!
Howdy Chris,
Good News for the RenderGarden Folks! <BG>
Well………..we kinda were heading in that direction.
Gee….Ya Know…..I'm Starting to develop a craving for Texas
BAR-B-Q…..Funny how that happens.
Murph'
Jonas! You JUST posted this to rebutt my assertion that you're a linear
(always predictable) system, DIDN'T you!? <g>
Thanks,
Dave
Hi David,
<< just..didn't..>>
Very close to true…:-)
>>3D Studio will be moving WIN NT
A quick question that may be in the parameters of discussability.
Does the above mean that r5 will moving exclusively to NT, or will
there still be a DOS version?
Hi John,
<< limits.. >>
That's all we're allowed to say.
jonas[adesk]
Yippy! Best obvious new news of 1995.
Finally 3DS, Photoshop, ER, and Premiere all but a mouse click away……..
I can hardly wait. Great move, guys.