Autodesk Confirms NT 3ds
61 messages in this thread
"I agree with you 100% Jack – I am definitely looking at different modelers for
the future."
Yup, I'm kind of "bummed out" about this myself. I got tons of real good
graphics stuff that I use on a dayly basis, all Windows and DOS. Fom what I
hear from others, half of the existing stuff doesn't run under NT and I am not
willing to scrap everything (or half) of what I got, just because the ONE
program I use most is migrated to a different platform; essentially ignoring
ALL the existing users. (who, of course, are not on that platform)
It would be best if there were 2 versions out, one NT for those who "need" it
and one for DOS (the 32 bit DOS would be a better way to go, finally the Phar
Lap crap could be stripped out)
Nevertheless, I inquired pricing for Windpws NT 3.5, the cheapest I found was
$280! This is typically MS, major bucks for something others might even give
away… (Like Linux, now that would be interesting…)
Jack (the PC incorrect) Can't wait to get the comments on this one.
I don't have any Windows apps that don't run under NT, fyi.
– G
Gary: <windows apps run under NT> EXACTLY! Almost everything on my system is
WINDOWS based. So 3-DS and Ani-Pro are the "out cats". BTW, even when the new
Anim Studio is released I REALLY WANT TO HANG ON TO the dearly beloved and too
often under-rated Ani-Pro. Someone told me they ran Ani-Pro successfully in
Win95. What will happen to Ani-Pro? Can it run in NT, or will it be coded to
run?
You'll have to run any questions about the 2D stuff by the Autodesk folks,
Jeffrey.
– G
<< Someone told me they ran Ani-Pro successfully in Win95. What will happen to
Ani-Pro? Can it run in NT, or will it be coded to run>>
AniPro will not run under NT for the same reason 3DS will not run under NT,
Phar Lap. I can't say for certan that it won't be coded for NT, but right now
the focus is AASTUDIO.
-Brian
Brian,
Have you tried to run Ani-Pro under NT. I recall that I got it to run under NT
3.1 and used it for a fairly long session, but the next time I opened it I got
an abnormal program termination. From there I started to notice messages about
a bug-fix upgrade, but never filed for it after hearing about AAStudio.
Since then I have 3DS and Ani-Pro on a stacked drive, which of course I can't
see under NT. If I am hearing right that will be corrected with the next
release.
FWIW
Fred
<Since then I have 3DS and Ani-Pro on a stacked drive, which of course I can't
see under NT. If I am hearing right that will be corrected with the next
release.>
If by "stacked" you mean Stacker, then, no, I don't think that this will be
added to he next NT release. NT 3.51 will add NTFS compression, and there are
rumors that it will support Drivespace, but it will not support Doublespace. I
highly doubt that it will support Stacker.
Brad
Bradley,
Currently I'm using Stacker, but whatever is supported will do fine. My only
thought was the added capability.
<<You might want to try to find the older version of the Windows NT Evaluation
Guide, also.>>
Never got this one, the other was setting on my desk, so I offered.
Fred
Brian: <can't say for certain that it won't be coded for NT> There are many
reasons I am anxious to see AAStudio. But Ani-Pro has served as an excellent
low byte, fast production tool. It would be bizarre that the only reason to
dual boot would be for my old friend Ani-Pro to still run. There is a certain
look I get with Ani-Pro, delightfully quirky when composited inside more
"elegant" animation. BTW, when is the anticipated shipping date for AASTUDIO –
been looking forward to checking it out. In the meantime, Brian, I bet there
are a lot of devoted Ani-Pro users who would be pleased to see it made
compatible with NT. Seems like a 3-DS/AASTUDIO/Ani-Pro trio would work. Unless,
<gasp> AASTUDIO replaces Ani-Pro 100% <sniffle> Jeffrey
Brian,
>> I can't say for certan that it won't be coded for NT, but right now the
focus is AASTUDIO.
Hmmm…this sounds suspiciously like AASTUDIO might be a 32 bit product,
(WIN32s, Windows 95, WinNT)? 'Hope so; it looks like all my main programs are
going this way, and given the practical alternatives, I'd like to be able to
run everything native under NT.
John
<<Hmmm…this sounds suspiciously like AASTUDIO might be a 32 bit product,
(WIN32s, Windows 95, WinNT)? 'Hope so; it looks like all my main programs are
going this way, and given the practical alternatives, I'd like to be able to
run everything native under NT.>>
I did not imply this at all. Animator Studio, being released at the end of
March, is a Windows 3.1 application.
-Brian
Brian,
>> Animator Studio, being released at the end of March, is a Windows 3.1
application.
Thanks for the clarification.
John
"I don't have any Windows apps that don't run under NT, fyi."
Good news, I might just go for it then…
Jack
I agree with you Jack, that they should make 2 versions of R5 an NT and a
NON-NT (i.e. DOS) version.
Judy
Dear Judy,
>>I agree with you Jack, that they should make 2 versions of R5 an NT and a
NON-NT (i.e. DOS) version.<<
DOS is basically going to dissapear like pretty soon. So why keep holding on
to something you have no control over? And can you imagine the kind of work
involved in making 2 versions? It's insane.
I say, without being rude, give it up, and relax, NT is a good thing. You'll
see.
Alex K.
"I agree with you Jack, that they should make 2 versions of R5 an NT and a
NON-NT (i.e. DOS) version."
Well, hope springs eternal… (though I'm quite a pessimist when it comes to
Gary implying that the ones not getting NT will be left behind)
The only thing that worries me, is the fact that anything I know about Windows
tells me that things will be SLOW, slower than they would be without the
Windows overhead.
The MS guys always had the philosophy that if their stuff gets too demanding
(lots of overhead and memory), the customer can offset that by buying a machine
with tons of memory and a faster processor. (Always good to offset your BAD
programming with better hardware <BG>)
What it comes down to is: You buy a faster machine and everything runs just
nicely at a speed "one machine step" lower. If they coded their stuff right,
you would REALLY see some speed.
There is hope though, somebody here wrote me that MS didn't write NT, so
mayhaps we're in luck…
The only problem I see is the damn princing strategy of MS, The NT "mini
version" sells for $280 and the server (who wouldn't want that one?) sells for
about $700! (a tough one to swallow…)
Well enough bitching and griping, I'll see you and me using NT anyhow, just
so we can have our 3D-Studio…
Jack
You are right there about the hardware requirements. They are really excessive
and point to poor programming. They have the same problem with MS-DOS.
Microsoft programmers seem to take the easy way out and write in high level
languages which are by the very nature inefficient and slow. ALso they make for
bloated code! MS may not have written NT, but apparently those who did are not
much better than those who write MS-DOS.
I agree that NT is overpriced – I believe I read somewhere that they have to
recoup their development cost by pricing the os so high – I don't think it is
doing all that well in terms of number of units sold. So whatever the price is
for the R5 upgrade you can $280 to it for NT – nothing appealing about that! To
say nothing of the fact that you will probably need to get new/upgrade
hardware. Not a very appetizing prospect.
Judy
>> for the R5 upgrade you can $280 to it for NT – nothing appealing about that!
>> To say nothing of the fact that you will probably need to get new/upgrade
>> hardware. Not a very appetizing prospect.
Judy,
I've been following this thread a while now (listening and learning) and it
seems you are so rigid in your views that you are not listening and
learning.
It has already been stated that anyone running 3DS has the hardware to run
NT. I don't know your setup but I do know that to be successful and
competitive in this fast moving 3D industry one must stay current. In a
production environment you had better have the fastest hardware already. If
I needed another Pentium 90 with 32 megs to complete a project I would have
known this before bidding and been prepared to but it NOW. If I had needed
an IPAS to complete a project I would have known before bidding and been
prepared to but it NOW.
If the software that is pertinent to my business is going NT than I will
buy and learn NT (and learn to like it) <g>.
You have stated that you refuse to use an MS operating system… yet you
claim to use 3DS (running under MS-DOS?)
You claim to want to go to Alias/SGI instead of 3DS-NT… and you say you
want the newest 3D paint IPAS that will be released about the same time.
You claim alot of game developers are only interested in SGI seats…
although the people most involved in 3D game work here tell you otherwise.
I have personally contacted 6 or 8 game companies since CES and _ALL_ have
3DS seats and/or contract work they need done.
I do not claim to know everything and I am but a small freelance company,
but I listen and learn quite well. I have not been disapointed in the
direction Gary and the Yost Group have taken me so far and I trust them to
lead me further.
Ralph …listening and learning 🙂
You are right Ralph, I'd like to here what projects Judy's worked on. So what's
the low down Judy?
-RR VDG
Ron,
Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and that is what makes this forum
as great as it is. Its just that such a rigid view posted _day after day_
gets old and benefits no one (IMHO).
Heck, nobody really loves Microsoft… but I'll be d***ed if that would stop
me from using the one piece of software that has changed my life so.
Ralph
Actually I run PC-DOS and OS/2 for Windows type stuff.
The game companies I refer to are the ones that are local to me – not what goes
on in California.
I am planning to add a lot of IPAS etc. to R4 – it still has a lot going for
it.
Judy
>> I am planning to add a lot of IPAS etc. to R4 – it still has a lot
>> going for it.
I'll say!
Have faith, Judy.
Ralph (on my way to pick up a book on NT)
" Microsoft programmers seem to take the easy way out and write in high level
languages which are by the very nature inefficient and slow."
PSSST… Don't you give away those guys' secrets here <g> You are right, IMO
those guys are pretty inept when it comes to coding, but at least they are
smart enough not use their own C compiler when they write their stuff! <BG>
"To say nothing of the fact that you will probably need to get new/upgrade
hardware. Not a very appetizing prospect."
Yup, that's one of the things that really bug me, I just about got done
spending my b*! off, when I may need to trash it all, because there are no
drivers for it etc… I'm using quite a custom set-up, NCR SCSI-2-3 all-in-one
controller, WACOM digitzer, ATI MACH64 4MB, PIONEER CD Changer etc., that will
more than likely give me major problems… (But then of course "my
manufacturers" can always just write me a quick driver when I need it, it
won't be an NT problem…)
Jack (wondering whatever happened to the real coders)
>> Jack (wondering whatever happened to the real coders)
They all work for the Yost Group. <BG>
Ya know, you and Judy should take your NT bashing to the NT forum. I'm sure it
would be more fun there. If you don't want to get NT or R5 then don't. You can
obviously create just about anything currently seen on network TV with DOS and
R4 so stay with it if it works for you. But, you two should step down for a
moment and listen to people. Maybe there's a reason why people seem to think
pretty highly of NT. GaryY seems to have a pretty good feeling about 3DS
running on NT and I think you can put more faith in the Yost Group than you
seem to think. If Gary says 3DS will be faster running in NT then in DOS then
I believe him. I'm going to get NT now so I can play with it for awhile. I've
got OS/2 and took it off of my system and went back to DOS. From what _most_
everyone has been saying about NT I'd say it sounds great. I don't anyone
around here is going to make stuff up about NT and just say that it's fast and
tight. Anyway, I could go on and on. I'll be getting it within the next couple
of weeks and I'll let ya know how it goes. It's only $300.00. Why not just pick
it up and see what ya think. You might just like it.
DM
Hi David,
<< You might just like it. >>
FWIW, on NT, I like running the supplied Opengl textured flag screen saver
using the ASOFT Year Book page #1 as the texture. Just thought I'd throw that
in :->
Jonas,
Exactly !
I don't think the NT bashers realize what kind of usability improvements
OpenGL offers to the programmers of IPAS plug-ins and the 3DS core code.
I've got Dynamation running on my SGI for an upcoming review and it has really
opened my eyes to hardware rendering.
Bruce N. Goren
<<I've got Dynamation running on my SGI for an upcoming review and it has
really opened my eyes to hardware rendering.>>
*It is one cool program*
Open GL fast prewview….
<<So whatever the price is for the R5 upgrade you can $280 to it for NT –
nothing appealing about that!>>
How does this compare the productivity gains by using 3DS under Windows NT? Is
$280 really that big a sum?
<<To say nothing of the fact that you will probably need to get new/upgrade
hardware. Not a very appetizing prospect.>>
That's life in any computing business. Systems become outdated and need
upgrading. This is something that needs to be done, either accept it or get out
of the business.
David "Look before you leap" Gould
YOu forgot to mention that changing platforms is always an option.
Judy
A couple of quick points:
1) NT is not slow. If we didn't think we could make r5 faster under
WinNT than r4 is under DOS, we wouldn't be doing it.
2) MS has a special bundling deal for vendors to bundle NT with their
products for folks who don't already have it. So, it looks like
the extra $$ for the OS won't be much of an issue.
– G
Good point !!! But what about the French version of NT? Ahhhh sometimes life is
so complicated. Especially to do texture in Win and render in DOS…
Pierre
Gary:
Ooooo. Pierre makes a good point. I know you can't SAY anything, but if
you don't maintain a DOS-based rendering engine for slaves, you're gonna
break our network-rendering set-up but good! While we may eventually have
all NT stations in the office, I've a lot of machines that wouldn't cut it
(but that can crank out quite a few frames overnight, even WHILE swapping),
not to mention having to buy NT for all 30-odd machines. So, while I look
forward to the NT 3DS, P-L-E-A-S-E keep a DOS-RenderEngine available!
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave
>> MS has a special bundling deal for vendors to bundle NT with their
>> products for folks who don't already have it. So, it looks like the
>> extra $$ for the OS won't be much of an issue.
Very cool. Thanks for the heads up!
JDH
"1) NT is not slow. If we didn't think we could make r5 faster under
WinNT than r4 is under DOS, we wouldn't be doing it."
Extremely good news to me! (the poor hobbyist 3D'er type)
"2) MS has a special bundling deal for vendors to bundle NT with their
products for folks who don't already have it. So, it looks like
the extra $$ for the OS won't be much of an issue."
Good news again, just wonder how much the overhead is…
From what I understand you want to expand on the platforms 3DS runs on, what
happened to the UNIX (X-windows, OSF/OPEN, Motif) idea? Just curious, since
this would at least keep things REALLY open (and independent of MS bugs<g>) Now
almost anybody could run it (besides proven software technology as a real
basis, instead of the 3 or so NT platforms)
Just curious about what made you ditch UNIX as an alternative.
Jack (the never, ever, quitting questioning wonder-boy, (aka pain int the
butt))
Re platforms… As I said earlier, Autodesk feels that the long-term potential
of the WinNT market will provide the best marketing opportunities.
– G
>>>As I said earlier, Autodesk feels that the long-term potential of the WinNT
market will provide the best marketing opportunities.<<<
I don't envy anyone having to make a big decision like that. We have all been
pretty comfortable over the past decade knowing that MS-DOS was the way to go.
I have complained about the baggage of MS-DOS that we have to continue to carry
with us, like many people have. Now that the time is here to finally change to
something else it is kinda scary.
It's scary, but I'm very comfortable with NT's ability to support an extremely
robust production environment. The transition might be a little interesting,
but we'll all have a true 32-bit operating system on which to base our futures.
– G
I believe I've heard the following is an old Chinese curse:
"May you live in interesting times"
>> The transition might be a little interesting, but … <<
Not too VERY "interesting," I hope!
"Re platforms… As I said earlier, Autodesk feels that the long-term potential
of the WinNT market will provide the best marketing opportunities."
Ah oui, monsieur, quelle diplomat… <g>
I knew that couldn't have been your first choice, (always figured you smarter
than that).
So now I won't blame you anymore, good to know that you still are 'ye ol'
savante.
Well, whatever way it goes, I guess I'll have to follow… (But then, ever
since I got 3DS (and all your originial IPAS's), I was convinced of that
anyhow)
Jack (the enlightened)
You're wrong.
1) Autodesk does feel that the NT potential is best for a product like 3DS.
2) Yost Group feels that the system architecture of NT provides the
best tools for us to move forward.
When I was brought in to Autodesk to discuss future platform
strategies, I was just as much of an NT supporter as the rest of them.
I personally HATED Windows (and Win32s) and always vociferously
said that I'd never develop for it. However, NT is NOT WINDOWS.
It's a true 32-bit OS with better system services than Unix, and
it allows us to do ANYTHING THAT WE WANT.
You're grasping at straws, Jack (and Judy). Take some deep breaths
and relax.
– G
<However, NT is NOT WINDOWS.
It's a true 32-bit OS with better system services than Unix, and
it allows us to do ANYTHING THAT WE WANT.>
I'm a fluent Windows user, and have been running NT 3.5 Workstation for 3
months. I'll never go back from NT, except maybe to play with Win95's new
interface until it appears on NT.
I'm getting into UNIX a little bit (my department does a lot of heavy-duty
calculation stuff on RS/6000s), and I'm not very familiar with it's
service/daemon architecture. Could you give me a little info on why you think
NT's Services are better than those in Unix?
Thanks,
Brad
What does NT offer over Unix? How about:
– Cross-platform DLL compatibility. Unix has a DLL-like
concept, but they're nonstandard across platforms,
so an SGI DLL won't run on a Sun (for instance).
– Object Linking & Embedding (OLE)
– Symmetric multiprocessing that was designed into the
system from the ground-up (as compared to what was
hacked into Unix AFTER it was originally designed).
– On a similar vein, it helps that the entire kernal
in NT is threaded. With Unix, threads were another
afterthought.
But for end-users who don't care about system architecture, the
most obvious benefit is cut & paste across applications, and
simultaneous interoperability with all of their other favorite
apps (like Photoshop and DOOM, for instance).
– G
"I personally HATED Windows (and Win32s) and always vociferously said
that I'd never develop for it. However, NT is NOT WINDOWS. It's a
true 32-bit OS with better system services than Unix, and it allows
us to do ANYTHING THAT WE WANT.."
Well, some of us aren't easily convinced, so I went out yesterday, and
got NT. Got it up and running, (haven't tried all my "old" windows
stuff yet), but the verdict is: So far, so slow…
That is probably due to the fact that the "old" windows apps I have
are 16bit, but one thing already seems to be apparent: The "symetric
multiproccessing with soft affinity and preemptive multitasking" is
more like "preemptive multitasking" alone.
It's quite a joy watching a user process straggle along, while NT is
negotiating its privilege levels. Just a look at the performance
monitor makes one gag on overhead. <g>
I'll still give it the benefit of the doubt though and will try to get
things "optimized" and reevaluate. NT IS definitely a better solution
than Windows 3.1 and it seems that, as long as you don't have to run
more than one thing, its pretty fast too… (now wouldn't it be nice
to have a 64 bit app.?)
Jack (took your advice, now still exploring)
Jack,
>> So far, so slow…
That's interesting. It actually performs a little faster than Win31 on my
machines. What kind of machine are you running?
If you're not running NT on an advanced machine then you're right. Hang it up.
It doesn't take well to 386's @ 33Mhz.
FYI I'm running two Pentium 90s; one with 32 megs of RAM another with 40 megs
of RAM. Some things are faster, some things are slower.
>> The "symetric multiproccessing with soft affinity and preemptive
>> multitasking" is more like "preemptive multitasking" alone.
No it's not. Well, actually it is. If you're running a machine with only one
processor you can't do "symetric multiprocessing with soft affinity." That's
what multiprocessing means: multi-processors. So in a way you're right; it is
only "preemptive multitasking" on your machine.
>> as long as you don't have to run more than one thing, its pretty
>> fast too…
That makes no sense. The preemptive multitasking system for NT doesn't do time
slicing (giving each running app an equal amount of time) but instead schedules
applications to run based on a priority level. If an application is in the
foreground and running no other background processes will run until the
foreground app yields (unless a background process has a higher priority).
I suspect something wrong with your configuration. Are you running
DOS (or Win16) programs that seem to suck all the life out of NT? If
so you need to check their priortiy settings to make sure they are
set to normal or lower. I had some of the symptoms you described
until I checked and reset each DOS and Win16 app. I even had to do
some funky things to make OzCIS run and not suck all the zip out of
NT. Now NT is extremely responsive no matter how many apps I run
(and no matter what kind).
Another option is to GO WINNT and describe your problems to the folks there.
God knows they've helped me tremendously.
>> (now wouldn't it be nice to have a 64 bit app.?)
As soon as we have a 64 bit OS (and instruction set!).<g>
Marc
P.S. I presume you're running NT 3.5?
"That's interesting. It actually performs a little faster than Win31 on my
machines. What kind of machine are you running?If you're not running NT on an
advanced machine then you're right. Hang it up. It doesn't take well to 386's
@ 33Mhz.
FYI I'm running two Pentium 90s; one with 32 megs of RAM another with 40 megs
of RAM. Some things are faster, some things are slower."
I'm running a Pentium 90 32 MB RAM, if you fot stuff running fater, it must be
NT specific stuff…
"No it's not. Well, actually it is. If you're running a machine with only one
processor you can't do "symetric multiprocessing with soft affinity." That's
what multiprocessing means: multi-processors. So in a way you're right; it is
only "preemptive multitasking" on your machine."
Dang! I knew it, when I'm right, I'm right… Ain't I? <BG>
" >> as long as you don't have to run more than one thing, its pretty
>> fast too…
That makes no sense. The preemptive multitasking system for NT doesn't do time
slicing (giving each running app an equal amount of time) but instead schedules
applications to run based on a priority level. If an application is in the
foreground and running no other background processes will run until the
foreground app yields (unless a background process has a higher priority)."
Hmmmm, why does that remind me so much of pm? <G> (Don't answer that, just
putting in 'ye old sarcasm')
" Now NT is extremely responsive no matter how many apps I run (and no matter
what kind)."
Try something like: Being in your terminal prog and downloading stuff while
doing somethinfg else, that should convince you of the "real multitasking
feature"…)
" >> (now wouldn't it be nice to have a 64 bit app.?)
As soon as we have a 64 bit OS (and instruction set!).<g>"
You ARE running a Pentium, aren't ya? <EBG> (even bigger grin…) 😉
"P.S. I presume you're running NT 3.5?"
Are kidding? Of course, damn… <G> Yup that's it…
Jack
Jack,
<<The only problem I see is the damn princing strategy of MS, The NT "mini
version" sells for $280 and the server (who wouldn't want that one?) sells for
about $700! (a tough one to swallow…)>>
NT can be confusing at first look. I don't believe you will need the NTAS (NT
Advanced Server) version to run 3DS. That version is for enterprise style
networks. The "Workstation" version, your "mini version," is really what you
should need. You get the full networking capability of a client on most
networks, including Novell as well as built in TCP/IP and other good things.
I got a disk from MS some time ago called Windows NT Evaluation Guide. It is
about 1.2 megs of help style files. You might be able to get a copy from MS.
It may even be over on the NT forum.
If no one can find it I'll upload it to the libraries. (Jonas???)
Fred
Hi Fred,
<< If no one can find it I'll upload it to the libraries. (Jonas???) >>
Sure, please upload it and many thanks!
jonas[adesk]
"If no one can find it I'll upload it to the libraries."
Sounds good, do it, it should give ma an idea of what's going to hit me soon
<g>
Jack
Jack,
I uploaded it yesterday. It will appear in HWare/OsSys/Video as NTHELP.ZIP.
Search word are NT, OS.
I hope it helps. It is a rather large file, 1.3 megs approximately 16 minutes
at 9,600.
Fred
"I hope it helps. It is a rather large file, …"
Now, why am I not surprised <g> (just driving the point home, nothing
personal..)
Jack
<< I uploaded it yesterday. It will appear in HWare/OsSys/Video as NTHELP.ZIP.
>>
Thanks for uploading it, Fred.
Mark
<I got a disk from MS some time ago called Windows NT Evaluation Guide. It is
about 1.2 megs of help style files. You might be able to get a copy from MS.
It may even be over on the NT forum.
If no one can find it I'll upload it to the libraries. (Jonas???)>
You might want to try to find the older version of the Windows NT Evaluation
Guide, also. It covered NT 3.1, and was about 4MB, but it seemed to have a lot
more in terms of comparisons with other operating systems. It also actually
gave you screenshots of the graphical administration tools in NT. This is very
helpful to people who haven't actually seen NT running.
I like the original Windows NT Evaluation Guide a lot better, but you really
need the new one also, since it adds NT 3.5 specific information.
Brad
<<There is hope though, somebody here wrote me that MS didn't write NT, so
mayhaps we're in luck…>>
That's right the project manager is Lou Perazzoli who moved on from Digital,
but the hell difference does that make. Your blanket comments about everthing
Microsoft makes is crap shows your stubborn loyalty to anything that is
non-Microsoft. I frankly don't care WHO makes it but instead what it does.
Windows NT is in my opinion the operating system of the future and many others
share this view. If your a serious animator upgrading your system in order to
be more productive is taken for granted. If you want to boycott Microsoft go
ahead and do it but don't waste your time nagging everyone here. Instead of
saying blatently that Windows NT sucks why not give it a try then come back.
David "Try it!" Gould
"Your blanket comments about everthing Microsoft makes is crap shows your
stubborn loyalty to anything that is non-Microsoft."
Nope, just years of experience proving me right when it comes to MS stuff,
that's all.
" I frankly don't care WHO makes it but instead what it does."
Well, I do, especially when they are known for crap…
" Windows NT is in my opinion the operating system of the future and many
others share this view. If your a serious animator upgrading your system in
order to be more productive is taken for granted. If you want to boycott
Microsoft go ahead and do it but don't waste your time nagging everyone here."
Who's nagging? Just put in my 2 Cents worth and if they don't agree with your 3
Cent coins, don't fly off the handle. FWIW, Almost EVERY serious developer I
know, prefers OS/2 over NT and ALL told me not to bother with it since years by
now. (just so you know why I'm feeling this way). Just because MS Windows is
the standard, doesn't mean it's a good one…
" Instead of saying blatently that Windows NT sucks why not give it a try then
come back."
Did I say it "sucks"? Well, anyhow, as I stated earlier, lots of others have
tried it and they came to the conclusion that it "sucks" (your words).
It seems to me that you don't have exposure to any REAL multitasking, multiuser
OS's like UNIX et al and that's probably why NT (after your regular Windows
experience I assume) must look so overwhelmingly good to you.
Jack
<<Well, I do, especially when they are known for crap…>>
That's fairly hypocrytical since you are using MS-DOS to run 3DS, no? If you
hated Microsoft so much you'd be over in the Mac forum and not here.
<<Who's nagging? Just put in my 2 Cents worth and if they don't agree with your
3 Cent coins, don't fly off the handle.>>
The fact is, no matter how good or bad Windows NT is, you are still going to
stubbornly hold your views and no-one can change this so why not accept that
3DS is to move to Windows NT or move to another software. We(the forum
majority) accept that this is situation and are now making constructive
preparations towards this goal.
<<FWIW, Almost EVERY serious developer I know, prefers OS/2 over NT and ALL
told me not to bother with it since years by now.>>
I'm sure that you only hang-out with "like-minded" people.
<<It seems to me that you don't have exposure to any REAL multitasking,
multiuser OS's like UNIX et al and that's probably why NT (after your regular
Windows experience I assume) must look so overwhelmingly good to you.>>
I've done GL programming on a Silicon Graphics machine(UNIX) and studied the
operating system in detail during my undergraduate. But who cares, I don't have
to justify myself. I find that talking to people that have a fixed mind is
wasted time since they aren't open to the facts, so I'm off to spend my time
more productive, you might want to do this too.
David "Fiche moi la paix" Gould
"That's fairly hypocrytical since you are using MS-DOS to run 3DS, no?
If you hated Microsoft so much you'd be over in the Mac forum and not
here. "
Invalid premisses, yield invalid conclusions…
"The fact is, no matter how good or bad Windows NT is, you are still
going to stubbornly hold your views and no-one can change this so why
not accept that 3DS is to move to Windows NT or move to another
software."
That's not a fact, but your incorrect opinion.
"We(the forum majority) accept that this is situation and are now making
constructive preparations towards this goal."
"We, the forum ,majority"? You must be from a scialist society, where having a
differing opinion is PC incorrect. Are you?
"I'm sure that you only hang-out with "like-minded" people."
More incorrect assumptions.
"But who cares, I don't have to justify myself."
Hmm.. <G>
"I find that talking to people that have a fixed mind is wasted time since they
aren't open to the facts, so I'm off to spend my time more productive, you
might want to do this too."
I usually do, but then, there's always the "golden exception" <G>
Look, instead of making all these personal observations and personal attacks,
stick with the subject, it's not me, it's NT, got it? Unfortunately you had to
jump into the emotional end of it…
FWIW, I got NT up and running since yesterday, so much for "fixed" minds and
change of the same. But I can't yet say that I share your "good news" about it.
(Except for the GL part, but then that's obviously not MS's merrit). I'll find
out as I explore more. (oops, what a bummer…)
Jack
Hi Jack,
<< so much for "fixed" minds and change of the same. But I can't yet say that I
share your "good news" about it. >>
Can we start this discussion again the first day of SIGGRAPH? Until then we've
got a product to develop.
jonas[adesk]
Nothing changes if nothing changes.
"Can we start this discussion again the first day of SIGGRAPH? Until then we've
got a product to develop. "
Hmmm, now you got me cooking… (What, what, whaaaaat? <VBG>)
Sounds good, will do, I hope to meet you in person there, please make sure you
let me know when and where…
Like I told Gary, I'll quit, but then, everybody and his dog insists on writing
me messages…
Jack (watch for my message to ALL kind 'o guy)
Jack
Hi Jack,
<< Siggraph..Sounds good, will do, I hope to meet you in person there, please
make sure you let me know when and where… >>
I hope to be at Siggraph again this year. You'll find me at the Adesk booth
working the crowd and at the Adesk parties. %-\..
jonas[adesk]