CompuServe Thread

#Here comes the Mac III

46 messages in this thread
#90252From: Jonathan HirschmanFeb 26, 1993 10:16 AM
Hi, Just wondering what everyone (anyone?) is thinking about the upcoming Mac III's. These new Apples are due this summer, and the preliminaries sound impressive. I've heard: '040 based machines, optimized accelerated graphics, DSP (with audio in/out and modem/fax connections), NTSC/S-VHS in/out, multi-voice sound (from the DSP), etc…these machines are meant to be "multimedia killers". Is this the reason behind the DSP for the Amiga? Will CBM finally be threatened by another platform (and I mean, feel threatened, whether they are actually menaced or not)? Anyone have any answer to these and other questions? 🙂 Curious Jonathan
#90268From: Richard EricksonFeb 26, 1993 12:59 PM
I thought Apple just announced these machines a month ago, but the DSP was announced before that. I heard they also have custom co-processors to take the load off the main CPU, sounds familiar. The Atari Falcon 030 also has a DSP in it. I think the change in Commodore is partly due to a change in CBM personnel. Like the head of the engineering department for one. They have to push the devolpment of the new high & low end chipsets as fast as possible, along with DSP. Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
#90328From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiFeb 26, 1993 8:53 PM
Just a note on the upcoming Macs… The new "inexpensive 040" machines use LC040 chips… No math coprocessors. Ick.
#90396From: Richard EricksonFeb 27, 1993 3:33 AM
That would seem to put a lot of 3D rendering software for the Mac at a disadvantage. Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
#90603From: Matthew J. W. RatcliffFeb 28, 1993 7:49 PM
Macs have traditionally had no math coprocessors even when they got nice CPUs, and the software would often require an addon 68881.
#91208From: H.W. "Kirk" KirkpatrickMar 6, 1993 7:18 AM
"Macs have traditionally had no math coprocessors even when they got nice CPUs, and the software would often require an addon 68881." This is simply not true. Of the 11 desktop Macs now available, 5 come with FPUs, and 4 others contain the sockets for "dropping one in". Of the portable Macs 3 of 7 come standard with FPUs and 3 more contain sockets. I know of NO mainstream programs that "require an add-on 68881 or 68882. All of the high – end Machines have one. We have about 600 Macs now and use about 200 different software packages corporate wide. We have NEVER had a problem because of an FPU being there or not! Byte (a PC oriented mag) recently evaluated workstations (A NeXT, A Sun, An IBM RS/6000, A Compaq '486/50, An Iris workstation, an HP, and a Quadra 950). They recommened the Quadra. But what does Byte know? Kirk
#91217From: Richard EricksonMar 6, 1993 12:44 PM
I don't know about anybody else, but I am getting tired of hearing about how great the Mac is, in an Amiga forum. I can't believe if you put Mac even a Quadra against a SGI machine, the Mac would be better. Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
#91224From: Black Belt SystemsMar 6, 1993 1:56 PM
It wouldn't, technically – nor does a quadra fare well against an AMiga 4000, technically. In fact, the 4000 is a MUCH better piece of hardware. The thing that hurts is putting Apple the company against CBM the company, CBM comes out looking like rank amatuers. Putting MicroSoft the company against CBM the company, CBM comes looking out like rank amatuers. It's not an issue of machines. It's an issue of systems, and the parent company is important (unless it's CBM, in which case it's important the same way Leukemia in the family is important). The writing's on the wall. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#91243From: Richard EricksonMar 6, 1993 4:23 PM
Is looking like rank amatuers caused by being small and unable to compete with the big boys, or is it just mismanagement at a smaller company? I have been considering getting an A4000 and a 486 BB to replace two older computers. After the talk from Apple about their plans for video and CBM's lack of competiveness. I may just have to think about a PC (I can't believe I said that), not an Mac though. I will not pay those prices for a underpowered machine. Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
#91253From: Greg MohneyMar 6, 1993 5:23 PM
ARGH!! Do not utter those 2 letters…P and C…in the same phrase. Eww. Hellfire man…think. AGA? Ring a bell? Yes…Commodore is smaller. Thats just the way it is. But looking at The new amiga line and then looking at PC's…the answer is obviously Amiga. You dont call those specs POWER? Criminy…this isnt the 54'th century. Thats as powerful as you can get. Competitiveness? How many computers…not boards,but whole new computers…have they come up with since last year? They may be smaller… a bit slower in advancement…but now with the possibilities of the A4000 there is no competition. And at the rate that CBM has been going..how far behind can the A5000 be? Greg – via Whap!
#91290From: David KieltykaMar 6, 1993 9:28 PM
Greg, There's no question that the Amiga, from an engineering and system software perspective, is a superb platform. This is largely what has kept the machine alive to this point. There's also no question that from a marketing perspective, the Amiga is a complete disaster. "Commodore marketing" is an oxymoron. There is no Commodore marketing. Just occasional lame, half-hearted approximations. Money is not the most important factor here. The important factors are creativity and innovation; here C= comes up empty-handed. IMO, if this situation does not soon change, the Amiga will soon cease to be a viable platform for software development. As Ben says, "The writing's on the wall." -Dave (via AutoPilot)
#91292From: Greg MohneyMar 6, 1993 10:33 PM
Dave, I agree. CBM has the marketing savvy of a staple.Does that make their product any less powerful? Greg – via Whap!
#91366From: Gracia M. LittauerMar 7, 1993 5:13 PM
David, Just butting in to add my 2 cents. Have you all seen the form letter new Amiga owners (I'm an old <g> Amiga owner, but just bought a 4000) received from Jim Dionne?! More or less asking Amigans to go out and tell the world how much we love Amigas (like that's not what we've been doing for 7 1/2 year), and to write him and <share any new ideas to help expand acceptance of the Amiga among people who haven't used an Amiga>. My heart be still, not only don't they have a clue about marketing, but they want us, the users to do it for them. I have reframed from writing a really sarcastic answer…more flies with honey et cetra, but I think we should all inundate C= with great marketing ideas…see if they salute. Gracia
#91344From: Richard EricksonMar 7, 1993 12:13 PM
I don't like those letters either. I don't want to go that way if I can help it, I have been Commodore since the VIC-20 days. The 4000 blows everything else away, and at a great price, but the technology is not the problem, it's the market. Amiga software is disapearing from store shelves, more business is getting the Mac for video instead of the Amiga, Apple building Amiga type tricks into their machines, etc. I am just concerned about the health and continuing success of the Amiga market. I just want to see some evidence that CBM is going push the Amiga more than just a cartoon character in a few magazine ads. What ever happened to the Merisel deal? What ever happened to DEC as a reseller? BTW Those P C letters are just as repulsive as M A C. Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
#91508From: Mark D. ManesMar 8, 1993 7:53 PM
Richard, Amiga entertainment software is disappearing, but I don't think that is the fault of Commodore, but rather the over all market in the United States. Richard, decisions on what to carry in a store (or chain of stores) is based on many things–one of them being the cost of shelf space. Assume for a minute that I am not an Amiga dealer, but rather a typical software shop that you might find in the mall. I have 'X' space that I pay rent for, in order to maximize my profit I want to cover my shelves with the products that are most likely to sell to the widest group of customers. Now it is your store, would you carry Amiga and IBM or just IBM? My next point. The American software manufacturers are made up of a group of companies that want to invest money into development of a product and have promised returns on their investment. The number of PCs out there virtually guarantees general success for even the most mindless of products. Given $500,000 to invest in development, would you spend it developing a product for the Amiga that might fly, or spend it on a product for the PC that will fly no matter what you do? Are you a gambler with you're $500,000? Now Commodore is not without fault, but I think there is little Commodore can do to change the flow now. I am not positive that they could have changed the flow earlier, and even if they could, I am sure the management genius at Commodore International which tightly control the purse strings at Commodore Business Machines would not have invested the money necessary to make it happen. The trick to marketing is application of money, something Commodore International is not interested in spending in the United States. I think the hand writing is on the wall folks, in glowing neon, when one of our own Amiga developers here on CIS doesn't think a game product would be sucessful enough to warrant it's development on the Amiga. Our entertainment software is going to come from Europe, and they will enjoy great success here in the states. I welcome them, perhaps they are willing to pick up the crumbs the 'big boys' aren't interested in. One other thing Richard, Merisel still distributes the Amiga, and DEC and Commodore still have their agreements. People are *not* buying Macs to do video, and will not for some time. Why? Cause the video people know about the Amiga and think of it first. Video is the bread and butter of most Amiga dealers in the US. Richard, I challenge you, what would you do in detail given a reasonable budget from Commodore International to change the way Commodore advertises? What specifically would you say to the people. It is so easy to flame 'em, lets see some constructive fixes. Personally, the letter from Dionne is not a bad way to establish a direct relationship to you the customer. You might take Mr. Dionne up on his offer, give him your ideas. -mark= -mark= Drivin' on Otto Pilot
#91304From: Black Belt SystemsMar 6, 1993 11:13 PM
UNderpowered? A Mac Quadra is a darn sight more powerful, basic horsepower-wise, than the fastest available 486. Applications are the key here, methinks. CBM's just not all that small, anyway – they're sized in the same order of magnitude with Apple… remember they sell PC's and so on, not just Amigas, and they've sold a LOT of computers total, far more than Apple could ever hope to. I think the cause is bewilderment and lack of direction. Specifically, they let current products languish (repeatedly) while they poke at the next generation. I remember a serious display bug in 1.3 they didn't address for a loooooooooooooong time. Now, 3.0 has things that we desparately need for 2.0 (or 2.1 – whatever the highest distributable version is). Datatypes would be something other than a curiosity if everyone could use 'em. There's more, but it just aggravates me to enumerate. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#91318From: H.W. "Kirk" KirkpatrickMar 7, 1993 3:51 AM
I can't believe this. Apple had 8 billion in sales this year. 5 th largest computer company. The only multi-billion computer company that made money. CBM is not even close in size.
#91367From: Black Belt SystemsMar 7, 1993 5:16 PM
Dollars earned as profit is no indicator of size. It's an indicator of good managment (which I wouldn't contest for a second) and good margins. CBM is quite large overall, really. Just run by fools. Remember that "Commodore International" is the US arm of a multinational organization, and one of the smaller legs for that matter. It'll be quite some time before Apple is able to sell as many computers as Commodore has, assuming they keep going as they are. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#91342From: Richard EricksonMar 7, 1993 12:13 PM
The Mac Quadra is overpriced and underpowered compared to the Amiga. If I did go PC, I would want to wait for the P5 machines to come out. I really hope CBM gets their act togeather quick. It seems just by listening that the engineering side is starting to stay on the right track. Now they just have to fix everything else, most importantly MARKETING. Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
#91369From: Black Belt SystemsMar 7, 1993 5:16 PM
Overpriced, no question. Underpowered, no. It's got a faster '040. Yes, the blitter and friends are not present, and yes, the system bus is slower, but it's still not something you'd call "underpowered" in comparison. You can do things a darn sight faster with a fast 040 than you can with the Amiga's geriatric 7 mhz blitter. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#91356From: Paul GerhardtMar 7, 1993 2:52 PM
I just watched a segment on Good Morning America about British morning television. They had a live link to the host of a very popular British morning show that is a cross between GMA, Pee Wee's Playhouse, and Monty Python. The host gave a tour of his set including a wild computer room. "This is where we show the new Amiga bits", he said. And he said this as if everyone of course new what he was talking about. The GMA hosts had no idea what he was talking about! As Amiga enthusiasts I think we simply live "on the wrong side of the pond". …AutoPilot Engaged… -Paul-
#91409From: Richard EricksonMar 8, 1993 12:04 AM
Not many in television except for video toaster users know what the Amiga is. Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
#91320From: H.W. "Kirk" KirkpatrickMar 7, 1993 4:15 AM
What are Apples "plans for video?"
#91341From: Richard EricksonMar 7, 1993 12:12 PM
I read in a either Compterworld, or Infoworld that Apple was going to have NTSC video in and out, DSP, and co-prosessors as part of their native box, DSP. While this is old stuff to Amiga, with Apples marketing and CBM lack of, who's going to know. Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
#91355From: H.W. "Kirk" KirkpatrickMar 7, 1993 2:37 PM
Well, as usual it is half the story. The new Mac will have video (NTSC, PAL, RGB, and S-Video in and out). It will also offer voice recognition out-of-the-box for all North american english speakers WITHOUT training. Something the Amiga doesn't do. It will be able to "pass- through" analog video straight to the Macintosh's monitor and can even display live video transparently over the Mac's desktop. It also can digitize video to QuickTime format without add-on hardware. It will also have system software support for speech synthesis from all programs by simply passing text to the OS. Again something the AMIGA doesn't do. The new models will support direct memory access on all peripheral buses, including the SCSI bus. They fully implements NuBus 90, which supports faster throughput from add-on cards. The serial ports also have been supercharged; the modem port will be capable of emulating a variety of telephone standards, and with the right adapter, it can be connected directly to a wall socket. Here is more info: Minicam. For both models, Apple will offer a miniature video camera that can be mounted above the user's monitor or moved about on the end of its cable to take pictures of objects or documents. Taking advantage of the 32-bit digital signal processor (DSP) built into the systems' logic boards, the camera will be able to put an image measuring 360 by 288 pixels, with 256 gray levels, on the screen. While the built-in lens is designed for general use, users will be able to install supplementary lenses that can record detail as fine as the wire bonds on an integrated circuit, sources said. The camera is expected to cost between $150 and $250. > Speech recognition. The systems will ship with all the software needed to put Apple's Casper voice-recognition technology to work; users apparently will have to purchase an optional high-fidelity microphone. The system, according to Apple documents, is based on a speech- recognition engine now officially called MacPlainTalk. It reportedly will recognize speech from any adult speaking North American English, with no prior training required. Users will be able to speak in natural phrases rather than in single words separated by pauses, and the system will automatically adapt to changes in background noise. > Speech synthesis. The two new models will talk as well as listen. A new system facility called the Speech Manager will convert text strings sent by applications to phonemes and then pass them to a speech synthesizer, which in turn will look up the proper pronunciation in an extensible dictionary and generate the actual audio output via a new custom application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC) called Singer. From a control panel users will be able to select among multiple voices, depending on the synthesizers installed. The default synthesizer Apple will provide, code-named Gala Tea, is expected to support several male, female and child voices (see MacWEEK, May 11, 1992). Features include the ability to read numbers and fractions properly, such as "nineteen- ninety-three" instead of "one, nine, nine, three." As previously reported, both new models will include an AT&T 32-bit DSP that will handle video and 16-bit sound, including telephony. The Cyclone will include a 40-MHz '040, three NuBus slots and support for up to 128 Mbytes of RAM. A new NuBus controller called MUNI (Macintosh Universal NuBus Interface), built into the Cyclone and on the Tempest's optional adapter, will implement the NuBus 90 standard, including block transfers and data burst to and from the main processor bus. Both systems will offer video output in a variety of formats, including NTSC and PAL (European) composite and S-video. Please don't forget the 16bit (CD quality) audio. Boy it is amazing all of the "AMIGA" thing Apple builds into the Mac g4:*720c62x'vf>&2<62/30c6vzg
#91219From: Karl F. KugelMar 6, 1993 1:38 PM
Never had a problem? Do you use any si's? THOSE had many problems when they came out due to not having FPUs. A number of software packages (no-name ones like Excel) checked for CPU type and on finding an '030 ASSUMED that a FPU was present. Where do you think the "co-processor not present" error came from if there has never been a problem? I expect this is the problem that Arnie has heard about. -Karl Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
#91461From: Matthew J. W. RatcliffMar 8, 1993 12:02 PM
Thank you, I guess Apple has finally added FPUs to their top-end machines, but that was not always the case, as my "traditionally" was meant to imply. Since they seem to discontinue lines in favor of slightly enhanced ones it makes sense that their current set are over 50% FPU powered.
#91223From: Black Belt SystemsMar 6, 1993 1:55 PM
"But what does Byte know" Very, very little. They're also short on responsibility and accuracy, but hey, they're Byte – so it doesn't matter. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#91266From: Jorge EscobarMar 6, 1993 6:55 PM
Youre *DAMN* right… What does BYTE know? I recall Jerry Pournelle saying… " Of the three platforms, the more suited to MultiMedia is the Macintosh… followed by IBM which definitely has a 'window' to MultiMedia and third the Amiga which needs a lot more peripherals for doing MultiMedia…" By GODS SAKE… Amigas *don't* need peripherals to do MultiMedia as the other machines!!! GAWD!!!… ::trying to calm down:: Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (…and AutoPilot, of course!)
#91308From: Robert ComerMar 7, 1993 1:23 AM
Not much… They didn't test an Amiga 4000 with that group. Bob Comer
#91319From: H.W. "Kirk" KirkpatrickMar 7, 1993 4:06 AM
I hold in my hands a text from Dr. H. M. Deitel. I know that he is just one of the foremest pioneers in computer science and cannot know about computers like Amiga users do. The text is called operating systems. It covers the major O/Ss in use today. Read it. Of couse, he does not come to the conclusion that the Amiga is the best computer for everything so he MUST be stupid. As must Seymore Cray. What amazes me most is the attitude that everybody in the world is ignorant about computers but Amiga users. And then THEY are ignorant if they don't agree that the Amiga is the greatest thing since sliced toast. I am using a Mac to link our ethernet (DECnet, TCP/IP, AppleTalk) worldwide network to a AppleTalk, TCP/IP network in Moscow (We are in Munich) This full time connection uses a multiplexed T1 to New York converting to salelite link to Medvedeva lake in Russia then via microwave link to our Moscow offices. Can someone give me information on how you do this with an Amiga. (I realize that much of the work is not being done by the Mac.) I would just like to read about the possibilites. It is amazing also that in the last real CBM stronghold (Germany) that they have a 10 fold loss in market share in their most knowledgeable market (2 years ago every second computer sold in Germany was a Commodore). I see the MASSIVE defection from the AMIGA market by German companies who traditionally have used Amigas and are VERY familiar with thier use. A Company here called MediaLabs (One of the larget multimedia companies in Enrope has just went all Macs, Of course they are ignorant too.)
#91387From: Steve SetzerMar 7, 1993 7:25 PM
oooohhhhhh, your just asking for trouble <G> ====>>> Motorola 68030 Inside <<<====
#91411From: H.W. "Kirk" KirkpatrickMar 8, 1993 12:06 AM
My real question is Why? Why is EVERYONE in the computer community so ignorant( not the Amiga community, of course ). The hardware on the Amiga is "superior" (bad, judgemental word) to the Macs. I don't care. For $3500 I can buy a DecStation 5000 that is magnitudes faster than a Mac or an Amiga. Computers are systems. They simply begin with hardware. The system extends all the way to the company. Amiga has NO comm toolbox, No AOCE, and sadly, no company backing it. It offers no SNA access, No (or limited) DECnet access, etc. This list goes on and on. Major computer manufacturers are NOT working closly with CBM to insure that the AMIGA works with thier products. This is all part of the system. We (Radio Free Europe) have set-up one of the most complex data-sound networks in the world spanning from New York to Moscow, based on AppleTalk, DECnet, and TCP/IP. We work with 21 different languages (including Russian, Armenian, Uzbeki, Tajik, etc) and 12 different script systems. It is IMPOSSIBLE to support this on an Amiga. Of course I am ignorant here and you will tell me of all of the Uzbekis using Amigas in their native language. I have not, and WILL not make statements like the Mac is SUPERIOR to the AMIGA or vice versa. These statement are non quantitative and meaningless. I cannot get real information about the AMIGA because the people who know the machine inside and out are so sensitive to "bad" comments that every comparison to another platform is simply to slam that other platform (look back though these threads), and not to make a meaningful comparison.
#91415From: Jonathan BlackwellMar 8, 1993 12:35 AM
The MAC is just now with System 7.1 supporting localization with WorldScript.. something the Amiga has supported for some time. BTW, the Amiga has had speach recognition capabilities for a while too. Ever hear of VCLI ??? -Jonathan
#91438From: H.W. "Kirk" KirkpatrickMar 8, 1993 8:01 AM
Not true again. The Mac with system 7.1 supports WorldScript, a much different matter from simple localization. The Mac OS was localized for many languges (even slightly esoteric one like Icelandic) since 1984. If the Amiga supports this type of "localization" can someone please tell me where one can get Dari support for the Amiga as one of my users has an Amiga and has been wanting to use it in his native language for a LOOOONG time. He was told that it is non existant.
#91440From: H.W. "Kirk" KirkpatrickMar 8, 1993 8:12 AM
Second reply: Second point, the Mac also supports voice recognition, as it has the best selling voice recognizer in history (The voice navaigator, Articulate Systems, Cambridge). I use it every day and it works very well as an adjunt to mouse/keyboard input. You should see any computer users eyes pop out (including Mac users for that matter) when I call me computer using the telephone and have it fax me a document at a number that I read to it.
#91477From: Charles HillMar 8, 1993 2:17 PM
New Amiga's come with a "Locale" setup that allow you to customize the system to the local language, etc. I don't know about Uzbek, but I know of Greeks, Croats, Iranian, Polish and Turks using the AMiga in their native language (though not all software is available in those languages). True, most major companies don't work closely with Commodore to support stuff, and it's a pity. Still, of worse comes to worse we can pop in an 80486 based card and multitask (and control) it from the Amiga…hardware, too. [Many Mac items, also.] -Chas
#91416From: Robert ComerMar 8, 1993 12:42 AM
Whoa there, I was not flaming the MAC like your message seems to imply! I wasn't calling people that use MAC's stupid. I was just saying that BYTE should've included the Amiga in with the other comparisons. Now to coment on your comments! I've never read the text of Dr. H. M. Deitel, but I have a degree in computer science, and I have read MANY texts on OS's. (It's a hobby of mine.) If you're saying that, he says the MAC OS is the best, I can only assume he is saying that from an end users (non techie) point of view, and in that the MAC OS is very good. I don't like the MAC OS because of no preemptive multitasking (what they teach you in college these days), and no real command line. This makes the MAC far to rigid for my tastes. As to Mr. Cray, he is a Genius when it comes to hardware. I would like to see any quotes you have from Cray as to the MAC OS being the best! (Any machine that I've worked with that Cray has had a hand in, is mainframe size, and has preemptive multitasking. As to your network setup with your MAC, the Amiga could do it exactly the same, we have TCP/IP, and software to drive it, we have appletalk ports, nothing else is handled by your MAC. As to your last paragraph, the answer is software (end user), and dollars, pure and simple, not an advantage that the MAC has, (definitely doesn't have) in the OS area. And in that, they weren't stupid moves. Bob Comer
#91437From: H.W. "Kirk" KirkpatrickMar 8, 1993 7:57 AM
Totally agreed. Dr. Deitel does not say that the Mac has the "best" OS, a statement that would immediately disqualify him in my book. If OSes are your hobby I am VERY suprised that you do not know Dr. H. M. Deitel. If anybody says "best" for just about anything, (I.e., best car, best computer, best booger picker, etc) then they definately do not know WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! IMHO of course. Shall I "cut and paste previous comments frim this thread and we can see who is saying "best", the only, "the best computer" etc. As to Dr. Cray. He has never, to my knowledge, made such a statement and I personally would be shocked if he did. He uses a Mac at work and at home. He chooses a Mac. He would not make (IMHO) such a blantly unsupportable statement as the "best" computer. As to this statement, "As to your network setup with your MAC, the Amiga could do it exactly the same, we have TCP/IP, and software to drive it, we have appletalk ports, nothing else is handled by your MAC." You have fallen into the mistake of commenting about a system that you know nothing about. I mean the "nothing else is handled by your MAC" part. Making this type of comment about a system you are not familiar with is typical about the type of comments that are rampant in this forum. Somebody please tell me what I have said detrimental about the Amiga and we can go from there but I believe I have simply refuted false points about the Mac. The Byte article mentioned the Amiga, however, since the software that was tested was available on all the platforms tested and NOT on the Amiga they choose not to do an unfair comparison. That doesn't make them stupid. I was taught in SA that "best" depended on many factors, including but not limited to, hardware. I lament the poor showing of the Amiga at the hands of CBM. But look back through the posts and see who is doing the "slamming".
#91489From: Marlene Zenker/SYSOPMar 8, 1993 5:41 PM
You've mentioned "Dr H.M. Deitel" before a couple of times… What has he done? What's his "claim to fame" that makes him an expert, or in the same league as Tannenbaum, Comer, and Bach? I'm curious, because I've never heard of this guy before. Thanks for the info… Steve
#91444From: John DublerMar 8, 1993 8:34 AM
Kirk, You seem smart enough to avoid broad generalizations about the Amiga community. Certainly, Amiga users who are enthusiastic about their platform can sound like "prima donnas" just like some rabid Mac fans. I don't think we feel we know computers better than the rest of the world. There have been plenty of responses to your messages critical of CBM. When you want to talk about platforms, however, what do you expect to hear promoted in an Amiga forum? I'm not going to rehash the history of Amiga users' frustrating experience trying to get mentioned in trade magazines. Tick off all the hardware you want, but the keys to any machine (among other things) is that (1) it solves a specific user's problem, (2) is available when a user needs it, (3) for a price the buyer considers fair. I think most of us are aware of the limitations and strengths of other platforms and have made our decision. That's how we arrived here in AmigaUser. *** jd, using AP from LA, CA!
#91474From: Richard EricksonMar 8, 1993 1:58 PM
That's how I arrived here. I think all most Amiga users want is the platform to be treated like any other computer on the market. If the Amigas, and other non MS & Mac machines have something new, what's wrong with mentioning it, if they are have a really bad app or machine mention that. Whats wrong with letting the market decide which is the better platform? I have come to view some computer magazines and some people who read them as having a very narrow point of view. If it doesn't have an Intel on the inside, or a colorful little Apple on the front they won't even consider it. Most Amiga users also use MS-DOS, and Macs, we have to, there is more of them. So we don't have a narrow point of view and can look at more platforms to choose from. It says alot when with almost no info about the Amiga in the computer industry we went Amiga. Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
#90764From: Miguel ChavezMar 2, 1993 2:10 AM
One of my biggest gripes against the Mac is its Toolbox, or Kernel. It's so generic and the Apple populist approach to programming so ingrained in programmers heads that nothing short of a hi-speed, quantum physics calculation will take advantage of math coprocessors. Look in last week's MacWeek for the "dawning" of this phenomenon in the Mac populace. An '040 in an Amiga will fly like a Banshee, but on a Mac, you might get decent graphic updating, or your applications will "pop" up faster. Sheesh. The most telling sign is the rarity of software packages containing 2 programs: 88x compiled & non-88x compiled. Almost all programs that can take advantage of such things will offer two versions of their code. Not so with the Mac. I only wish they came out with an optimized 882 version of Quark. It's so pathetic that the biggest thing over on the Mac side are "Photoshop accelerators," essentially processors on a card that will do alot of the number crunching that the '040 should be able to do itself if Apple wasn't so strict in its programming protocol. Miguel ——– AP, AP, and away!
#90402From: Paul ToalFeb 27, 1993 6:21 AM
And the price of these way cool machines will be only $1800 😉 –Paul
#90434From: Richard EricksonFeb 27, 1993 1:05 PM
I wouldn't call them way cool with a crippled 040. Richard -> via the Amiga 1000 AutoPilot
#90438From: Steve AhlstromFeb 27, 1993 1:58 PM
Jonathon, A DSP has been coming "RSN" for Amiga for the last 2 years. Hopefully, in the next 2 months it'll actually ship (for 4000 and 3000T users). The Atari Falcon is scheduled to ship the 3rd week of March. It has a DSP as a standard feature (they use the new Motorola DSP — CBM's using a Western Electric (AT&T) DPS — much more powerful than the Motorola part). I don't think Commodore or Atari having this capability is in reaction to Apple. I believe that the technology has advanced at a price that is affordable to the consumer so the addition of a DSP was an inevitable addition to personal computers. -sja