#False Rumours?
80 messages in this thread
Ben,
I'm hoping this is all just a simple misunderstanding, but I was recently
at an Amiga-only store called Amigination here in NYC. I went in asking
about the firecracker board. Bless them, the guys there are very helpful
and I really appreciated their attention to my needs. Anyway, near the
end, another fellow comments on how he wants to buy a board and he mentions
HAM-E. The salesman (he seemed to be the head man there; he was the oldest
at least) declared that you stopped making the HAM-E and were no longer
shipping any. Now, I know I should've said something, but I didn't, and
this customer walked away with a "Those guys that make the HAM-E are real
dopes!" thought in his head.
Later, as I was walking home, it hit me. The salesman must've meant the
HAM-E and NOT the HAM-E Plus! But either he misunderstood or (and I hope
this isn't what happened!) deliberately misinformed this customer.
Look, i don'wan'no trubble! Maybe he made a mistake! Anyway, can you
set the record straight, please!
MC
He is correct. We are no longer manufacturing the HAM-E, or the HAM-E Plus.
Before you ask for reasons, I have to tell you that because of a
non-disclosure we have signed with Commodore, I cannot go into details why.
I can tell you that we are quite pleased. :^)
We will continue to support the devices 100%, and will continue to enhance
the technology which we invented.
Ben
You have quit production of the Ham-E and Ham-E plus? Hmmm….interesting.
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm sure that it was a good deal for you,
and on the positive side, could mean future Ham-E technology in future
Amiga products. On the negative side, we have both seen CBM buy the rights
to certain products only to see it sit on the shelf and die. I'm glad you
will continue to support the product, because I'm sure I will be using it
for some time to come. I do need to send it in and get the latest mod's,
including the mod for the NEC Multisync to make the display a little
brighter. Guess I'll give the girls a call on Monday to get a RA number.
John – K7KB (via Whap!)
Have no fear about the support. None at all.
Ben
Yikes! Hold on a minute! Nobody else is reacting to this the way I am???
HAM-E is no longer being made! When can you tell us the whole story??!!
I'm dying to know. I can only hope that CBM's doing something good here.
Since you're not flaming, I take it as a good sign.
When you say support, you mean I can still get a hardware upgrade?
Mig
You can't get an upgrade from a std to a plus, but you can certainly get
the latest revisions made to your unit – and it's still no charge.
All I can say about the situation, I've already said.
Ben
Whew! This is news to me. I remember that you posted last
November/December that you weren't making them for 'awhile', but I assumed
that you meant while new chips were on order or such. Not making it at
all?! I just convinced my friend to spring for one. Sigh.
Well, I'm sure you'd tell us more if you could, but I sure hope that this
doesn't spell the end of HAM-E. I think I'll keep my early serial #
one…. might be worth something some day!
–jp–seattle–
"I have to tell you that because of a non-disclosure we have signed with
Commodore, I cannot go into details why."
Well, S-O-B,… that answers some questions! 🙂 Congratulations!
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
I thought CBm already had HAM-E… 🙂 Or maybe Ben is referring to an
all-encompassing revised marketing plan: CBM has decided that his ideas
are the best they've seen, and they've given him an appointment at the
right hand of Gould, and Ben can't say anything about it.
Hey, don't get ME inbetween you two! 🙂
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Ben,
your discreet announcement sent a quick shiver through my spine.
Congratulations! Whether this means that HAM-E will find its way into
standard Amigas in short order, or whether we're talking more along the
lines of developing Device-Independent Graphics for the next OS revision,
let me give you my warmest congratulations! You and your crew have put in
long hours over the last few years, and it's heartwarming to see such
genius, empathy and endurance well-rewarded in the end. God bless, and I
await further news with bated breath.
Blaq! – via Whap!
Thanks. :^)
Ben
Then again, you may end up having all the success of Alive, The Sidecar,
the 1300 genlock and other Commodore Supported Hardware efforts. 8^). I
hope not! BTW My HAM-E has dinked and you may be seeing it soon – or your
intrepid staff.
What happened to your HAME? Mine went dead a short while ago and I gotta
send it back too.
Nick
I dumnno . Maybe it spazzed out for its birthday or got jealous of the new
PAL chips!?!? Too bad, cuz I got these Dual 90 meg drives here waiting to
get filled up with Ham-e frames! Atleast I'll get the adjustment pot put on
the front (or somewhere) .
j h h l, serial #370
Yea if commodore thinks its too much trouble to upgrade the chips then
they should by all means put ham-e's inside all new amigas they make. They
would maybe also want to make the clock speed 14mhz while they are at it.
Hate to drop into the stream of this late (but I've not had a chance to read
till now).. RE:
"Before you ask for reasons, "… "I can tell you that we are quite pleased."
Can we then assume that since you are quite pleased, that we the HAM-E owners
will also be quite pleased?
Interesting question. I think so – you're interested in seeing us prosper,
are you not? You should be – the better we do, the more support you get.
You're not going to be abandoned in terms of software support or repairs.
We can't upgrade from std to plus anymore because we have no more of the
boards; also, there is a polarity problem with genlocking in some units,
and we can't fix that either, again, no parts to do it with. Other than
those two things, the hardware support will be very solid.
I presume you're aware that new versions of Image Professional have been
coming out regularly – that will continue indefinitely.
–Ben
Yes, I have no complaints with existing support – I'm just interested in
what is in the works. I am also kind of concerned that with BBS no longer
producing HAM-E, how will that affect 3-rd party support or development for
HAM-E.
Being that HAM-E is no longer populating the Amiga community, 3-rd parties
might not develop for the HAM-E since its a limited market. I understand
that you may not be able to elaborate on this due to the NDA you have with
C= (I hate NDA's, I had an NDA meeting with Microsoft yesterday and would
love to spill the beans, but my morals get in the way).
Joe
This does impinge on the NDA. I can't answer you without breaking
confidence. Sorry.
–Ben
Doesn't disclosure of the agreement itself constitute disclosure, thereby
violating the non-disclosure?
If that were the case, all the developers at Denver DevCon would be guilty,
because I'm sure that almost everyone one of them said (at one time or
another):
"Sorry, I can't tell you that. I signed a big non-disclosure with Commodore
at the conference."
Book him, Danno.
I doubt it! How many people (developers or more normal humans 🙂 knew that
Ben's agreement existed, until he told us?
John, in fairness, Ben's disclosure of his NDA re the HAME is a bit
different than other NDA's, IMHO. He is NO LONGER SELLING the HAME
hardware. Several folks here on CIS posted questions, asking "where can I
purchase a HAME?". If Ben's answer had been just "We stopped making it.
Period." I'm sure a lot of folk would be rumoring that Black Belt was going
under, etc. It sure wouldn't help sales of other products (IP,IM,NB,etc).
By answering that they were no longer making it, and that they could not
disclose any details about it due to a non-disclosure with commodore, it
softens the impact. I don't have the foggiest notion of what commodore is
going to do with hame, but at least it sounds like Black Belt didn't just
'drop' the product cold.
Hey, if you suddenly posted a message saying that you were no longer
selling any Interchanges, most would wonder about the survival of Syndesis,
right? Flagship product and all that…. (BTW, looking forward to IC2.0)
–jp–seattle–
Here's something to ponder – Imagemaster has already made more profit
dollars than the entire HAM-E project. You have no idea how low margins are
on hardware.
We're moving to a 100% software-based operation for new products.
I caution you – and everyone else – NOT to draw any conclusions.
All I have said is that we're not selling it, we can't tell you why, and
the reason we can't tell you is related to a nondisclosure. I see a lot of
jumping to conclusions here, and I don't think it helps anyone. We're
really not trying to start any rumors, of any type.
One thing I can assure you is we are NOT "going under". :^)
More like "going all out" or something similar.
–Ben
Nope. :^)
–Ben
Speaking of 3rd Party support I thought the VISTAPRO folks were gonna
support HAME? By the looks at the menus in the new .INFO article it looks
like they only have Firecraker and DCTVsupport.
I am talking about the display part. I know I can always convert the 24bit
output to HAME. still…. 8-(
Nick
I saw the article, but didn't draw any conclusions from it. I have talked
to Cliff who is the CIS based rep person and he told me it was absolutely
in, and at least a month or two ago told me that they were working on it
then. Since using the HAM-E library makes the whole thing no effort at all,
and since they've had a HAM-E for a long time (5 months or so) I certainly
would think that it WOULD be in there. We spent considerable money and time
to see that it did get in there and that the appropriate people got the
hardware.
However, you should check with them if you need to be sure. All I am going
on is what I have been told.
–Ben
Do you Cliff's PPN#?
Nick
Sure don't – he's often in conference in AmigaTech late at night, if I see
him there I'll ask him what the deal is with the promised support.
–Ben
Clint Woeltjen, VistaPro guy; PPN # 72470,104. He's the main guy over at
Virtual Reality.
–jp–seattle–
Nick,
I am confident that you will see HAME support in VistaPro…soon.
….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
Oh are you a VistaPro rep? Hope it's true it would be nice to see the
display in HAME immediately without having to convert it from 24 bit to
HAME.
Nick
I an NOT a VRLI rep. I have talked to them and they have said that the
new VistaPro will support the HAME. The ad in AW says it will ship on or
about 2/15/92. So far they have done everything they have said they would.
I remember when they said they would support the Firecracker24 board. They
did it and I have it. I expect they will come through with both DCTV and
HAME. It is not like they HAVE to do it; they want to.
….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
I was just curious because in the new issue of .INFO they show menus of
VistaPro 2.0 and I didn;t see any HAME option, just DCTV and Firecracker. I
got a reply from Cliff of Virtual Reality and he did say they were
supporting HAME. cool!
Nick
Yeah, and I am also rather disappointed in Imagine 2.0 providing DCTV
support but nothing for HAM-E.
Again, you need to talk to them. They did promise to add support; Mike
Halvorson made the promise personally, to me personally, in return for a
version of Imagemaster that would support the Firecracker.
We did our part, but Impulse hasn't – yet, anyway. Somehow, I doubt they
ever will.
–Ben
What was Oxxi's reaction to the stopping of HAM-E sales? I wonder if
SpectraColor/HAM-E can pay for its development now….
Well if HAME's are gonna be put in all Amigas I bet Oxxi will be pleased!
They will have the jump on everyone in terms of the new AMiga graphics
mode. right?
Nick
If your speculations were correct, you'd be very right. You *are*
speculating, though. :^)
–Ben
Ben,
Not trying to be a detractor or anything, but personally I am going to be
less than pleased if Commodore were to incorporate HAM-E technology within
every Amiga. Sure, it will silence the graphics hounds for a while, but is
this what is _best_ for our beloved Amiga? I don't think so.
I am hoping this rumor dies in favor of a new Commodore chip set. I, no
insult intended here, think HAM-E is a hack and not something that should
be built into every Amiga. What will happen to people who have
de-interlacers?
Anyway, the way your original message was posted. I got two impressions.
The first one being that HAM-E has been bought by Commodore, and the second
(and the one I hope for) is that BBS has decided to pull HAM-E because of
some action that Commodore intends to take, perhaps a new chipset?
Please don't take this to mean that I think you have 'disclosed' something.
I know that you are under Non-Disclosure, and further understand you worded
your original message to be as confusing as possible. 🙂
-mark=
– whappity whap whap… whap whap!!
I have no comments for you, Mark. Sorry.
–Ben
HAM-E mode (and REG for that matter) will not be a hack if Commodore
incorporates it into the Denise itself. I think there would be the strong
likelyhood of it being a legitimate display mode, not requiring a cookie
for instance and having some Intuition support.
Nick,
I don't think anyone said anything about HAM-Es being put in all Amigas. If
Commodore's answer to better graphics in the Amiga is either HAM-E or DCTV,
the Amiga is in serious trouble. We need advances, not hacks.
(I'm not denegrating HAM-E and DCTV as add-ons–they're both great. But
they're certainly not the kind of technology that needs to be built-in if
the Amiga's going to compete with PCs and Macs.)
"I don't think anyone said anything about HAM-Es being put in all Amigas.
If Commodore's answer to better graphics in the Amiga is either HAM-E or
DCTV, the Amiga is in serious trouble. We need advances, not hacks. "
Oh I agree 100%! If this is CBM's idea of a graphics upgrade they are
crazy. I was, as Ben put it "speculating". (g) We not only need more colors
but higher resolutions. Faster blitters too!
Nick
Denny,
Ok, what _would_ be acceptable and NOT a 'hack'.
Vic,
certainly, one should not expect anything less than VGA graphics. I have
a HAM-E and love it, but I would be very disappointed to see Commodore
bring out with great fanfare a new chipset that wasn't competitive with
VGA. Certainly the added resolution is a must.
Blaq! – via Whap!
As I recall, the resolution of VGA is 640×480 (I think we can do that…
now).
Sure we can do 640×480, but not with 256 colours!
73, Kelly
Actually, I would hope we would be competitive with SuperVGA, which is (I
think) the medium-high 'standard' right now in the PC world. Certainly
most PC's that run $2500 or over have it. You have to go to 'bargain' PC's
to get regular VGA these days. SuperVGA's resolution is 1024x768x256 color
(18bit palette).
I'll tell you, those images look pretty dang good. (but my FR24 looks even
better at 1024x482x24bit, I think 🙂
–jp–seattle–
I think Commodore knows how extremely difficult the job of engineering a
24-bit chipset (worthy of the Amiga) will be. If you modify the chipset to
include HAM-E displays, and then speed up the chip RAM buss by a factor of,
say, 4 then you have a machine that can do full-color realtime animation
for Thousands less than any competition. They could put it on the market
far quicker than the wet-dream 24bit-chipset with animation capabilities.
While I think Commodore should naturally work at the latter (and I think
they are), incremental advancement may be better for the Amiga now that the
Amiga market is heating-up; A relatively simple incorportation of HAM-E
into the chipset is a great way to standardize an existing technology, even
if you are working on better technology for the long-term.
Why not use video-ram chips for chip ram and eliminate cpu vs video
contention altogether?
Because the custom chips use Chip RAM for more than just a video display.
Or would you want the Amiga to become one of those CPU-dependant machines
for all that other stuff (like sound)? No, the answer is a faster Chip RAM
bus.
Christopher,
Look inside a HAM-E box sometime, and tell me how you're gonna fit all that
in a Denise chip. 😉 {And considering how hot HAM-Es get, you'd probably
need a LOX cooling system to keep that chip from going nuclear :^}
Anyway, speculation and rumors are what keeps CIS alive. I'll just be a
happy camper when Commodore does SOMETHING to make the Amiga's graphics
better.
(Y'know what would be great? If Commodore OEM'd the Toaster and put THAT on
the Amiga motherboard. And spraypainted over the NewTek logos on the chips.
😉
It's easy to fits lots of logic into a chip, that's what they're all about.
I believe they could do it, don't you? What, you're not happy with 32
colors? What's wrong with you? 🙂
It's paging by all that IBM drivel in Compute every month to get to the
good stuff that's twisting his brain. :^)
–Ben
"No, no – there's no Toaster in there. That's just AMiga graphics"
<grinning>
Actually, Denny, the HAM-E design (from a chip-utilization point of view)
that was "in the box" was pretty poor. It wasn't done here, and as far as
I'm concerned, we'd NEVER use that source ever again for design. The
functionality of the HAM-E goes quite nicely inside a single chip, and no
LOX needed – the HAM-E you've seen used bipolar PALs and there are far less
power-hungry ways to do that in one CMOS chip.
In fact, you'd be astonished what can fit in a chip. On a function by
function basis, you could fit about 1,200 HAM-E's inside a 68040 chip using
the same silicon geometry. :^)
–Ben
Yeah, wouldn't it be great to see 'Amiga' stickers all over the Newtek
chips! It would really make my day 8^)
John – K7KB (via Whap!)
HAM-E is a big as it is because it must manage two video output signals and
maintain their individual or combined image quality in addition to the
graphics decoding. Integrate HAM-E technology in the Amiga and all you
require is the extra decoding logic, which is already largely there because
of orignal HAM mode. Black Belt (nor anyone else but Commodore) hasn't the
ability to pop the lid of a Denise and modify the logic inside.
The toaster doesn't give us realtime animation, so I don't see anything to
gain there.
I don't know – why don't you ask them? <grin>
–Ben
I was wondering myself about those companies who provided 3rd. party
support for the Ham-E. I just received my SpectraColor/HAM-E in the mail
today and it would be a shame if Oxxi doesn't provide further support. I
imagine the people who did "Ham-E Workshop" might be a little concerned
also.
John – K7KB (via Whap!)
Hey your the guy in the CARS forum with a Honda Prelude right? Knew your
name looked familar!
Nick
Yup. I got myself a 91 Honda Prelude, and love it! Gotta say, I have yet
to find an American car that has the quality and reliability of a Honda.
PS: Got a big kick the other day, first time I actually got to use the
Antilock brakes on a slick of ice. Real weird feeling.
I have a 91 also but didn't get the antilock brakes. Great machine!
Nick p.s. go to the car forum and answer my message
unless it scrolled off by now.
I will check it out (message in the car forum). If it did scroll off, pls
post it again.
Joe
PS: We had 3" of snow here over the weekend, and got to test my anti-lock
brakes. Kinda stupid as I look back on what I did, since I did loose
control of my car two times (though, I quickly gained control back before
hitting anything).
We had a good snow here in Columbus too! I decided not to drive any! (g)
Nick
Joe:
Do you happen to know how I can tell if my car has antilock brakes? I just
bought a 1991 Mazda Miata that was a repo being sold by the finance
companies retail outlet (not a Mazda dealer), and they have no idea if the
car has antilock brakes, and neither do I. Will a car with antilock breaks
NEVER skid? I tried slamming on the brakes while traveling on a wet road at
about 30MPH, and was able to get the car to skid, although I think all 4
wheels were locked. Does this mean that the car doesn't have antilock
brakes?
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike:
If the wheels locked up on the car when you slammed on the brakes, they are
not antilock brakes.
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Michael:
I've since broken down and opened the manual to the car, and confirmed that
in fact it doesn't have anti-lock brakes, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm
happier that it doesn't, as I've heard lots of BAD things about anti-lock
brakes in general, and while it might not apply to the Mazda anti-lock
brakes, I'm just as happy to not have another thing that can break down.
(usually at the least appropriate time)
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike,
My truck has anti-lock rear brakes. I wish it was on all four tires! When
they ever upgrade the anti-lock to all four tires on the truck (Ford)
hopefully they will not disengage the system when in 4WD, since I spend
most of the winter in 4WD.
When anti-lock brakes break down, they revert back to normal braking.
There should also be an anti-lock indicator on the dash that lights up when
you go to start the vehicle and when the anit-lock brake is disengaged due
to a fault. Since you don't have anti-lock brakes, you don't have the
idiot light.
73, Kelly
RE: anti-lock brakes;
I've just got back from a ski vacation in Switzerland. My car has
anti-lock brakes; they saved my life last week. Picture your self
accelerating over 100 mph (we drive faster here). Suddenly you
realize the cars down the road are stopped! There are cars all
arround you doing approx. the same speed and everybody is standing on
their brakes. Cars spinning and fishtailing everywhere but you can
manuver around them whilst standing on your break pedal. I've had ALB
since '86 and wouldn't live without it.
I had a couple of scary situations when driving on the Autobahn when I
was in Germany, but I'm still living so I came through it OK 8^) I
did enjoy the faster speeds and when I got back to the states I had a
heck of a time holding back from flashing my headlights at some moron
doing 89 kmh (55 mph) in the left lane 8^)
Mike,
If you have anti-lock brakes, chances are you will have an idiot light in
your dash that says ANTI-LOCK or something that will light up everytime you
start your car telling you that everything is OK. Also, when you brake
hard of slippery surfaces, you will feel a very strong pulsating feeling in
your brake pedals, this is the computer system pulsating the brakes to
prevent wheel lock. As I found out this weekend in our snow, Anti-locks
will not prevent slidding entirely. You will not stop any faster than if
you were to pulsate the wheels manually with your foot (well, not much
faster, since the computer can work faster than the human foot). The
advantage of Antilock is in slippery spots on the road, quick braking, etc
but not on ice or snow.
Joe:
If I'm driving on snowy icey roads here in so FL then I better stop
driving!! Luckily these are road conditions that I left behind when I moved
south 12 years ago. 🙂
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale