#AC News ESCOM Wins- 4Now
75 messages in this thread
From Amazing Computing For The Commodore Amiga
According to our source at the Commodore Auction in New York today, initial
bidding was made by only two companies, ESCOM of Germany and DELL Computer.
There were sixty attendees at the auction. Most of the attendees were previous
stockholders, creditors, and other interested parties.
No one else offered the required $1 million deposit, although one CA dealer did
express interest and attempted to bid but they were unable to show an ability
to pay the $1 million.
Although the Dell Computer bid offered more money, the Dell bid required
additional time to study the patents. This request was declined and ESCOM's
lower bid was accepted.
The ESCOM bid will be presented to the Bankruptcy court in New York but there
is expected to be strong opposition. In any event, the court presentation
tomorrow should be the final act in this continung saga.
Don Hicks
Managing Editor
Amazing Computing
Don,
Thanks for the news and a great mag. Keep up the good work!
Don,
Thanks for the information!
Don
>> …initial bidding was made by only two companies, ESCOM of Germany and
>> DELL Computer.
DELL?! Where'd they come from?!
>> In any event, the court presentation tomorrow should be the final act in
>> this continung saga.
Not if they need two more weeks to study the objections. 😉
– Jim, on AP!
Thanks for the info Don.
By the way, can I give you my change of address for my subscription?
Jim R. Ollick on a Warped 4000/040/40
Using AP 1.77 from Bergenfield, NJ
Please call 1-800-345-3360 M-F 8:30 to 5:00 EDT with your old and new address.
Thanks,
Don Hicks
Managing Editor
Amazing Computing
Will do thanks.
Jim R. Ollick on a Warped 4000/040/40
Using AP 1.80 from Bergenfield, NJ
Don…Is your magazine one of those being offered in exchange for the now
defunct Amiga world…
As a video producer..can you tell me how I might benefit form your publication?
Also,,if it is one being offerd, how do I sign up?
Amazing Computing is a better publication than AmigaWorld was in my opinion,
and you should absolutely sign up. Somebody in the U.S. is still printing a
magazine, let's support them.
Amazing is not being offered by AW
Amazing is an Independent publication. The reviews and editorial policies of
the magazine sre those of the writers and editors only. This allows us the
freedom to view all products for their own merit and not how they may be
utilized with other third party devices.
Amazing handles a variety of topics including graphics, ARexx programming,
games, Trade Shows, New Products, and more. Amazing is concerned with the
entire Amiga market.
Amazing is available from:
Amazing Computing
PiM Publications Inc.
P.O. Box 2140
Fall River, MA 02722
1-800-345-3360 (toll-free US & Canada)
1-508-678-4200
FAX 1-508-675-6002
Office hours 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM Monday-Friday.
Visa MasterCard or Discover
Checks payable to: PiM Publications, Inc.
Amazing Computing
$27.00 for 12 issues US
$34.00 for 12 issues Canada
$44.00 for 12 issues Foreign Surface
Thanks
Don Hicks
Managing Editor
Amazing Computinbg
Don,
My subscription is coming due. I need to choose my renewal option. Will The AC
Guide be published this summer?
Bill
Amazing! <grin>
So what happened to Victory Party Dave, and I'm Not Worried Amor?
Dell??!!!
They needed more time?! They just fall off the sand truck or something?
There have been nothing but endless weeks of two week delays.
Looks like it's officially good night sweet Amiga. From what I'm given to
understand ESCOM is not interested in continuing the Amiga line.
Interesting that the UK, and CEI, after all their bravado about making a
real effort to bring back the Amiga, didn't even pony up the $1M to bid.
And to think off all the time spent listening to those two blow-hards try
to outdo each other, and then they don't even bid.
Guess we will now be subjected to a round of competition over which one
can liscense the technology from ESCOM, but that should only take 2 more
weeks. <g>
"And to think off all the time spent listening to those two blow-hards try
to outdo each other, and then they don't even bid."
Ain't that the truth? And some other blowhards disappeared as well.
I dunno much about Escom, but I think the Amiga can be considered dead at
this point, except for maybe game machines.
Jerry
Yeah… I'm so disgusted that I'm about to shove the machine in the
closet.
I was shopping for a 24 bit display card, but think I'll pass. If this is
the "leadership" of the Amiga community, then I may as well move on.
Then again, we can probably look forward to that Amiga Clone that Jim Drew
promised us, if the U.K. didn't win the bid. Since the U.K. didn't bid,
it's a pretty safe assumption that they didn't win.
How long till the clone rolls out Jim?
Look forward to June or July for new Amigas to ship!
Sincerely, Dean
IF (BIG "IF") ESCOM is going to restart manufacturing the Amiga line of
products the Amiga might have a better chance than ever to succeed in the
market. Escom has hundreds of shops all over Germany (and, I believe, in the
Netherlands, home of the Communicator) they have bought a chain of stores in
Great Britain which seem to go well. This would make for a strong presence in
the Amiga's main markets (yeah, right, shoot me for saying this). Don't know
about any activities in North America. At the moment Escom sells their very own
"Escom" "brand" (more a 'no-name brand') cheapo PeeCees plus the
Siemens-Nixdorf brand line of PCs. I don't think Siemens runs very well though.
As Vobis (#1 cheapo clone maker in Germany) also distributes Compaq brand
computers Escom probably thought they needed an internationally well-known
brand as well an C= was up for grabs… BUT PCs still start off at, say, $1000
in Germany, so the Amiga, starting somewhere around the $200 mark at them mom
(CD32) could actually find itself with a new lease of life as the entry-level
architecture (might actually be the last 'Home Computer' on the market – I
think there's only consoles left in this price segment). Escom certainly has
the MEANS to do well for our Amiga – the question is whether Escom actually
MEANS to do this or just went for the trade marks…
Cheers, (keeping fingers, toes and eyes crossed…)
// Christian "ELP" Busse
\X/ near Frankfurt, Germany
Interesting comments, Christian. As with all things, time will tell.
Jerry
Christian,
Assuming Escom is not interested in other dealers to sell the line as well, are
all the European developers that were making products for the Amiga in Jan of
'94 still supporting the Amiga and developing new products? If not, sales will
be poor (after all, the software sells a machine) and short-lived. Escom is
bright enough to figure that out, methinks.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Maybe they want the delay 'cause they are in cahoots with Mehdi and Irv who
don't want a resolution as records passed to new owners might leave them open
to prosecution.
wmc – via Autopilot!
That might be a good reason for Escom (filled with former Commodore execs) to
want to pay $7 million for Commodore. (To keep all the dirty laundry away,
though not too worred about Irv or Mehdi's hides in particular). Good theory!
dale@iam.com http://www.iam.com
Intangible Assets Manufacturing
WAIT!
The information we currently have is still being developed. It would be
premature and even unfair to discount either the UK interest or CEI.
According to an article in this morning's Philadelphia Inquirer by Dan Stets,
"Another likely bidder, Creative Equipment International, of Miami, apparently
teamed up with Dell in its unsuccessfull bid. The managers of Commodore's
United Kingdom team, who have been trying to buy Commodore's assets for months,
withdrew before the bidding began."
I am not sure about you, but from the movement and the names involved, I
believe there is more activity here than we think.
Remember, even if ESCOM does get it, they will want to recoup some of their
expenses. Why not sell off the Amiga technology, especially if they believe
whoever buys it will not be able to out perform them?
Don Hicks
Managing Editor
Amazing Computing
OK,
According to today's Philadelphia Inquiry article by Dan Stets, ESCOM is
interested in continuing production of Amigas. They will build them in China.
More to come, when available.
Don Hicks
Managing Editor
Amazing Computing
or ACER of in Taiwn perhaps!
Dean
Gee, I wonder what the custom chips' names will be? How do yo translate: Chip
of many but not enough colors Chip of four old voices etc, etc 🙂 Harry M.
>>Gee, I wonder what the custom chips' names will be? How do yo translate: Chip
of many but not enough colors Chip of four old voices etc, etc 🙂 Harry M.<<
Thanks Harry, you had me ROFLMAO!!!!
John L. Rice
OTFL!
DJ
Autopilot 1.80 by Steve Ahlstrom
From Queens, Center of the Looniverse …
Is it just my view but wouldn't the Amiga be Commodore's most valuable
assest? I mean except for Commodore's Europe distribution channel, is
the logo to a computer company that was mismanaged into bancruptcy
that valuable when put on a PC running Windows like so many other computer
manufacturers? It sure doesn't make sense to just dump it.
Richard -> AutoPilot on the A1000
Not everyone knows that C= went down the tubes. Brand recognition is something
very valuable( that why there are Corvette vacuum cleaners, and Mighty Morphing
Power Ranger macaroni and Cheese). And all they have to prove is that they are
very much alive (not bankrupt) and people will not think about it twice that C=
is still the name they sorta remmember.
Anyways, you are not talking about very bright people here if they are thinking
of buying PeeCees so is very easy to fool them.
>>Anyways, you are not talking about very bright people here if they are
thinking of buying PeeCees so is very easy to fool them.<<
I'd call them “rather dumb'' people who ask no more than being fooled.
Bart Van Bockstaele at 100574.2352@compuserve.com
… On AutoPilot and Amiga all the way from Belgium …
There are two types of people in the world. Those who go after the best,
and those who will accept good enough.
As in my oft stated comparison to Beta and VHS, the IBM/Clone is good
enough for most people. I strongly believe the Amiga and it's OS to be
the better technology. Especially before the advent of OS/2, and
definetly before the advent of Windows 3.x. However, even in those days,
the Amiga was not a major player. Not because it couldn't compete, but
because the clones were everywhere, and for most folks they are good
enough.
Add to that the natural reluctance to switch platforms, and the rest is
history.
It's not just that. You have to had to have a certain frontier spirit to seek
out and use something like the Amiga, which had so much less support than other
platforms. Most people didn't even know Amigas existed, so it wasn't a
question of choosing something that was good enough… they didn't know there
was anything better. That attitude dribbled down from dealers and other
higher-ups to be sure… but most people didn't even reach the point of
evaluation.
Mr. Zombie
The whole point is that people _DON'T_ evaluate. They ask their friends
what they should buy, never thinking for a moment whether or not their
needs are the same.
They also tend to fall into the more is better line of thinking. If the
clones have 40 word processors, and the Amiga has 10, then obviously the
clones are better. Personally, I don't know how many different Word
processors the average person buys, but I doubt that it is even 10. The
other line of thinking, is that if there are 40 word processors for the
clones, and only 10 for the Amiga, then obviously 1 of the 40 will be a
good program, and none of the 10 will be any good.
Magazines have preached for years: "Establish your needs, find software
that you like that will fit those needs, and then go buy the computer that
runs that software."
Unfortunately, people buy the computer, then buy the software the computer
will run, and then wonder why the computer won't do what they want.
Bottom line is: If everyone thought and evaluated products like us, the
Amiga would be a leader in sales today… Obviously the majority of
computer buyers do not see the world the same way we do.
Yes but I am still wondering if the brand recogition is still more
valuable than the Amiga line of computers? Maybe it is, maybe not.
Richard -> AutoPilot on the A1000
Even though C= went belly up, it is still a recognized name. (In the
sense that people have heard of it before.) Ever hear of Packard Bell?
They were a defunct electronics concern, that was bought for the name, for
a computer compnay. Who, by the way, is now #3 in size, and #1 in home
sales, in the U.S..
The average new buyer, doesn't know who did what or when. (How many folks
know that Compaq at one time was criticized much like GVP for using one of
a kind components. You had to buy Compaq hard drive controllers and hard
drives, not so long ago.) In the meantime, the C= logo will be emblazoned
on the side of the clone boxes, and the average Joe/Jolene will simply
vaugely remember seeing that logo someplace before, and assume that the C=
clone in front of them is a name brand machine.
Yes but is the Commodore name and logo stong enough to sell boxes after
they get those boxes into stores? Who knows, maybe it is.
Richard -> AutoPilot on the A1000
Is the C= name and logo strong enough to sell the computers? Probably not
on its own. However, put yourself in the position of a first time buyer
who has no deatiled information on C= history.
You walk into the store, and you see a C= box, and a Joe's computer box.
Which one do you think is a name brand?
Here in Sacramento CA, we have a large computer store called Computer
Warehouse. They have tried for over 7 years to establish Packintell as a
brand that they would like to sell. In the same time frame, the Packard
Bell name was bought up, and applied to a clone computer. Since the name
had been aorund for year, on radios etc. (till they went belly up), they
stuck on the slogan, "America grew up listening to us, it still does."
Neither is enough to sell boxes, but it is enough to get people
comfortable with the name, and a willingness to consider it as a purchase.
There may be enough inventory laying about to generat a mill or two of profit.
The CD32 as set-top (the only technology with any serious income generating
potential) can be licensed and royalties collected whils someone else does the
work.
I think you may see 9 months to a year of existing AGA machines and parts being
sold but then thats it. Escom Clones for China!
wmc – via Autopilot!
If they will sell the 4000's at give away prices, that's good enough for
me. I'm not about to buy somebody's used 4000 for $2K. But, if ESCOM
decides to blow out any existing inventory of 4000s for say $1200, I'll be
at the head of the line, with money in hand.
Don,
What a close friend of mine, deeply involved in the Escom deal, tells me tends
to corroborate what you say. Apparently the Chinese government is interested
in manufacturing the Amiga as the low-cost workstation for the masses. Sounds
good to me <g>. I just hope they don't all come with a Chinese language
keyboard …
See my previous message on this thread.
DJ
Autopilot 1.80 by Steve Ahlstrom
From Queens, Center of the Looniverse …
Does anyone else see the possibilities here? If one in ten Chinese buy an
Amiga that adds 100 MILLION users to the user base. I'd think that that would
constitute a market n'est ce pas? And taking advantage of the AmigaDos >2.1
localization features software for this market could be used by all of the
other markets as well!
"If one in ten Chinese buy an Amiga that adds 100 MILLION users to the user
base"
Nice dream, but not terribly realistic. How many products do you use that are
germane to the Chinese nation? Not many I bet. How many Japanese computer
operating systems have caught on in the United States? Not too many. How many
European computer brands and systems have caught on elsewhere? Not many.
Might be a nice market for the Chinese, but I doubt that you'd see any fallout
elsewhere in the world where Windows and MS-DOS are the primary OS's. The
Chinese, incidentally, are not noted for their mass marketing acumen. <G>
Jerry
Don,
Do you know which C= patents IBM is claiming interest in ?
IBM did not incur the legal fees for prepaing a 100 page brief because they
felt their attorneys were wanting for work. After all the MicorSoft suit is far
from being settled and the "partnership" with Apple remains an ongoing issue.
So, why be concerned with C=? After all, didn't IBM just report market share
gains in all their divisions this quarter? It is obvious to me that Big Blue is
covering all of its' bases and is taking nothing for granted. FWIW, look for
Motorola to become more open about its' lack of satisfaction with the IBM/Apple
arrangement. IMHO, the future of PC's is too volatile to take for granted (and
IBM knows this). If Intel and HP are successful with P7, will RISC technology
look so attractive? If Apple's System 8 meets expectations, what will that mean
for MicroSoft? What about the issue of hardware based multi-tasking? Might IBM
be interested in adapting this aspect of Amiga architecture in its' own future
designs?
I indicated in this forum, well over a year ago, that I felt there was a hidden
player in the liquidation of C= assets with an equally hidden agenda. I also
indicated that MicroSoft and IBM were likely candidates. All of the replies to
my post stated that IBM was "too big" to be concerned about the disposition of
Amiga technology. It is obvious to me that IBM has learned a valuable Old
Testament lesson, and, this time, Goliath is not taking David so lightly.
Cheers, Marty
ProActive Images Inc.
"WE BECOME WHAT WE THINK ABOUT ALL DAY LONG" – RW EMERSON
"I felt there was a hidden player in the liquidation of C= assets with an
equally hidden agenda"
I don't think that there's much hidden here. From what I read, IBM belatedly
became aware of a small technology sharing agreement it had with Commodore and
is essentially arguing that it is not liable under that agreement because of
Commodore's bankruptcy. A pretty reasonable issue for a "Deep Pockets" company
like IBM to raise and a hundred page brief supporting it isn't unusual. Strikes
me that all they're trying to is to insure that no liability will attach to
them because of the sale of Commodore's assets.
IBM owns more patents than any company in the world. I seriously doubt that
the secrets to a re-emergence of IBM as the dominant player in the market
hinges upon some aspect of the Amiga technology.
Jerry
I think you misread it.
IBM wants to make sure that it continues to have the legal right to use the
technology contained in Commodore's patents, regardless of any sale.
dale@iam.com http://www.iam.com
Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Nope. I don't think I misread it. We just said the same thing in different
words from different perspectives.
Jerry
Jerry, the man of chameleon words 🙂
DJ
Autopilot 1.80 by Steve Ahlstrom
From Queens, Center of the Looniverse …
So THATS where they got the OS/2 look and feel, eh? ;^}
wmc – via Autopilot!
>>So THATS where they got the OS/2 look and feel, eh? ;^}<<
Exactly!
Bart Van Bockstaele at 100574.2352@compuserve.com
… On AutoPilot and Amiga all the way from Belgium …
Know where I can read the 100 page objection filed by IBM or what pantents were
licensed. OS/2 2.1 and warp sure look a lot like AMIGADOS. Harry Manolopoulos
>>I seriously doubt that the secrets to a re-emergence of IBM as the dominant
player in the market hinges upon some aspect of the Amiga technology.<<
Jerry, I doubted too. BUT after seeing Windows and OS/2 I am quite convinced
they just don't have the knowledge and/or talent to make something as good as
the Amiga. In fact, having knowledge of an experience someone had with IBM,
their main problem (not only theirs, though!) seems to be they are unable to
cope with people that are intelligent enough to make something like an Amiga.
Commodore being small just HAD to be able…
Bart Van Bockstaele at 100574.2352@compuserve.com
… On AutoPilot and Amiga all the way from Belgium …
"BUT after seeing Windows and OS/2 I am quite convinced they just don't have
the knowledge and/or talent to make something as good as the Amiga"
We're all entitled to our own opinion.
Jerry
I totally agree with you Mr. Saperstein, personally I have used Amigados ,
MSDOS, Windows3.11, OS/2 warp, System 7 and the Amigas operating system is by
far the best… From my ex[erience it is the best multi-tasking OS I have used
and nothing has come close to it… Don't get me wrong each one of those OS's
have their benefits but for me I like the Amiga's OS for it 's GUI as well as
it's shell and of course it's multi=tasking abilitiy, not to forget it
incredible video capabilities.
Well, I work with all of 'em and don't have any favorites. They all work for
me – and they all have limitations – and strong points as well.
Jerry
IBM used to spend on R&D what most other competing corps in the field used to
gross.
DJ
Autopilot 1.80 by Steve Ahlstrom
From Queens, Center of the Looniverse …
"IBM used to spend on R&D what most other competing corps in the field used to
gross"
Even though their R&D budget has been cut, they still spend a huge amount of
money.
Jerry
You need to understand the whole issue of patents in general and software
patents in general, then to understand IBM's strategy of having cross-licensing
agreements with everyone so that IBM is never infringing on patents and no one
is ever infringing theirs.
dale@iam.com http://www.iam.com
Intangible Assets Manufacturing
>>You need to understand the whole issue of patents in general and software
patents in general, then to understand IBM's strategy of having cross-licensing
agreements with everyone so that IBM is never infringing on patents and no one
is ever infringing theirs.<<
It is called “intellectual theft''
Bart Van Bockstaele at 100574.2352@compuserve.com
… On AutoPilot and Amiga all the way from Belgium …
Bart, when you have patent agreements it's called sharing. Everybody involved
is getting some value. A bit different from patent infringement.
DJ
Autopilot 1.80 by Steve Ahlstrom
From Queens, Center of the Looniverse …
"It is called “intellectual theft"
When you do something with another's permission, it's hardly theft. Such
arrangements are reasonably common in the computer and other industries and are
really productive for all concerned.
Jerry
DON,
>>All of the replies to my post stated that IBM was "too big" to be concerned
about the disposition of Amiga technology.<<
I wasn't hooked on CompuServe by that time BUT this is what I wrote some days
ago.
>>##From AmigaUser at 03:29:24 13-Apr-95 … #: 192190 S22/Ramblings
12-Apr-95 04:11:02 Sb: #192181-#AV Video drops the Amiga Fm: Bart Van
Bockstaele 100574,2352 To: Eduard Joseph 74603,3262 (X)
What I don't understand is that IBM doesn't buy the Amiga. I have been told
that they use it, they've got plenty of money even now and they *could* launch
it as if it were their own invention so why not?
I think that even after having created a misconception as the peecee that they
should have enough credibility and/or influence left to do it with a *good*
computer.<<
After all, Philips always says that “Philips invents for you'' and what have
they *really* invented? Just about nothing…
Bart Van Bockstaele at 100574.2352@compuserve.com
… On AutoPilot and Amiga all the way from Belgium …
Bart,
<<What I don't understand is that IBM doesn't buy the Amiga.>>
IBM has reported market share gains by all of its' divisions in the last fiscal
quarter. I have also wondered why IBM just doesn't buy the C= assets and either
bury or use them. Afterall, 16 mill is petty cash for Big Blue. It would
certainly eliminate the need for 100 page legal briefs.
Cheers, Marty
ProActive Images Inc.
"WE BECOME WHAT WE THINK ABOUT ALL DAY LONG" – RW EMERSON
How about the audio cassette, DCC and (with Sony) the audio CD?
DJ
Autopilot 1.80 by Steve Ahlstrom
From Queens, Center of the Looniverse …
Hi Don,
Thanks for the auction information, posted so quickly!
I was planning to get down there to watch the fun, but I had a hard choice to
make — the auction or two days' consulting work. The money won!
Marion Deland
CROSSINGS – Newsletter for Amiga/PC/Mac compatibility
Alex,
The following is a messaged I just received from a very close friend of mine
who is very close to the Escom deal:
>>
Left you a voice mail message. Escom got it. Alex went in with Dell Computer
with a stupid bid. No other valid bids. My company has a Letter of Intent to do
a joint venture with Escom whereby we assemble a team of ex-Commodre/Amiga
experts to help them re-start the R&D and production and provide other services
in return for a license to use the Amiga technology in interactive set-tops
world wide. Our guys are going to Germany in about 10 days to hammer-out
details.
<<
The voice mail said basically the same. I take this at face value. This guy
is no BSer. Another thing he mentioned a couple of weeks ago was that there
are potential patent or copyright infringements which might possibly be
litigated successfully, in particular dealing with 3DO, but he wasn't sure how
far it could be taken under the current circumstances.
I'll keep you guys posted when I hear anything more. Also noticed the delays
are down to 10 days from two weeks <g>.
DJ
Autopilot 1.80 by Steve Ahlstrom
From Queens, Center of the Looniverse …
Thanks, Don! BTW, what happened to the Bandito? Did he deflect to PC
Magazine?
DJ
Autopilot 1.80 by Steve Ahlstrom
From Queens, Center of the Looniverse …
There's nothing left for him(her) to write about. Every column would be about
the dang two weeks. <g>
Mr. Zombie
While I wish Amazing, well. (I personally thought it to be better in the
technical dept, than AW.) I hope that someday the Bandito is revealed.
If it ever gets to the day when they are putting together the last issue,
it would be nice to find out who the peron(s) was/were to write the
column.
Now that's the truth! I'm *really* curious about who they were. I think John
Foust of Syndesis once said that he had done some writing of the Bandito's
column at one point, but that was a long time ago…
Mr. Zombie
Perhaps they could reveal the Bandito(s), in the same way that Larry,
Darrel, and Darrel spoke on the last Newhart, or the way that Wilson will
be revealed in the last Home Improvement.
>>The ESCOM bid will be presented to the Bankruptcy court in New York but
>>there is expected to be strong opposition. In any event, the court
>>presentation tomorrow should be the final act in this continung saga.
Au contraire! Lawyers from all over thw world are crawoing out of the wood
work. Next will be a series of appeals, injunctions, restraining orders,
out-of-court settlement meetings….
Dan Wolfe was right: we'll probably be able to read about the outcome in a
little item on page 42 of the April 30 edition of the Wall Stree Journal – in
1999.
wmc – via Autopilot!
"Dan Wolfe was right: we'll probably be able to read about the outcome in a
little item on page 42 of the April 30 edition of the Wall Stree Journal – in
1999.
"
dollar 1 for you
when this true
and an Amiga CD 32
Happy Zeitgeist
Andres Staubli, Switzerland
Dear Mr. Hicks,
I noticed your message on ESCOM and it is right on the money so to speak.
IMS, Inc. has close contact with ESCOM its just a formality now.
Spoke with Mansford S. , Thurs. night in NY.
Sincerely, Dean