#PVR problems
21 messages in this thread
Does anybody know what's happining with the DPS PVR? I've been
fooling around with it for a couple of weeks now and aside from some
little glitches I'm really pleased, however I am concerned about one
thing. It does'nt emulate a DOS drive the way the PAR does (via
PARDRV) this is a most critical point, direct rendering to the PVR
and most importantly Backups! I'm not looking forward to backing up
my 4 gig PVR drive via the 300 meg available on my DOS drive. I've
looked into something called "Tapedrive" but it may not support my
Connor 4 gig tape. If anyone can shed any light on this I would be
most pleased. I'm actually surprised that there has not been much
discussion here about the PVR or Speed Razor Pro which I eagerly
await!
Peter Knowles
Cornerstone Studios
Peter,
Looking over some literature I have on the PVR, it seems that it is
designed to work with a DAT or Exabyte tape backup. It also says that
"PVR kernel level drivers enable hard drives attached to the
Perception board to appear as standard system drive letters". Are you
saying that you cannot access PVR hard drives from DOS, or Windows,
or other file managers? Now you've got me curious. I have a system
due to be shipped tomorrow or the next day, and was planning to use a
writable CD ROM for backups. If I cannot access the data using
something like laplink or XTree, it may be a little more complicated
than I thought. Maybe the software that comes with the CD handles
all this?
As for as the little glitches you were speaking of. Mine appears to
have a "jittering" problem when larger animations are played through
it. These only appear on certain frames and not throughout the entire
animation. Murph has been in touch with the folks at Digital every
day, and they promised a 2 day fix. Of course that was 4 days ago.
<G> Anyway, they are aware of the problem and assure us that they are
very close to writing the code to fix this problem. I have no doubt
that they will.
I would be very interested in any information you turn up about the hard drive
situation.
Thanks, Terry
Terry
I spent all week trying to get the goods from DPS and IN-SYNC and the good news
is the NT version will allow direct backups, the bad news is it's going to be a
while before we see it. DPS confirmed that the current Perception software (Win
3.1) will not allow DOS drive emulation.
As for the problem you mentioned about skipped frames DPS assured me there
would be no "patches" or bug fixes for the Win 3.1 version.
I'm sure things will sort themselves out but in the meantime I'm a bit miffed!
and very sorry I sold my PAR/Razor Pro setup as now I can't get my work done.
I hope you're having more luck
Peter
Peter,
This is VERY interesting. Hmmmmm, might be better to go the E-mail route on
this one. Since all my information is second hand, I'd like to compare notes
with you on Digital, but not so much in public.
Thanks, Terry
Peter,
>> As for the problem you mentioned about skipped frames DPS assured me there
would be no "patches" or bug fixes for the Win 3.1 version. <<
Peter, I'd like to know who at Digital told you this.!!
I'm the Dealer for the Digital PVR System that Terry purchased and I can tell
you that I've been talking to Scott at Digital as well as Brad Nogar and Both
of them have assured me that they are working on a "Fix" for the Dropped Field
Problem that has been showing up on several of these installations.
Digital knows it's their Problem and they are working very hard to
fix this.
They have told me this in no uncertain Terms!
If someone at Digital told you that they weren't then I think you owe it to me
as a Dealer and the rest of the forum to post this as an open message.
I can't see why Digital would even think of not solving this problem in the
Windows 3.1 Version because not everyone is going to automaticly jump to
WindowsNT right now.
It would Kill their sales as well.
What you have Posted really should be addressed in the open forum so that
Digital has a chance to respond to this as well as all the other dealers that
are dealing with this problem.
Could you please tell us who told you that this problem was being "ignored".
James M. Murphy
James Murphy Consulting
Green Bay, Wisconsin.
Murph'
Murph
I'd be glad to share any information I have re: DPS.
I spoke with "Dan"( sorry don't know last name, but I'll find out) at DPS
headquarters in Toronto, 416-754-8112.
I switched my beef to E-Mail to avoid "Flaming" anyone, however I don't suppose
there was much threat of that as Dan also told me that DPS does not provide any
support via Cserve.
I would be thrilled to discover that my infoormation is in error as I have been
very pleased with DPS products and support in the past.
I myself have not yet encountered the now famous "dropped frame" bug but I am
equally concerned about the PVR not emulating a DOS drive for direct to PVR
rendering and rotoscoping, but most importantly backing up the PVR drive. Dan
at DPS told me quite clearly that until NT our only option was to copy ANI
files to the system drive and then back these up to tape. Phoey on that!
To fully share my concerns with the forum, here are some more of my
observations, be they bugs or simply goofs I don't know.
The Perception toolbar is an "Allways on top" application, this is great
however all the actual programs are as well, meaning it's impossible to ALT/TAB
to my graphic application from Perception VCR, 🙁
There is something messy about the Mirror operation, sometimes it hangs and
sometimes it displays a dialog box "Unable to create a file" of "Failed to
remove directory" DPS did admit this and proposed the workaround of deleting
all mirror directories from the system drive and trying again. Not very neat
but it did provide short term relief.
While playing PRJ files with audio the repeat button will only repeat the video
while he audio merrily continues to the end of the WAV file.
The "Analyze" feature does not allow the clip to be played while analyzing,
it's tough to find hot spots in my video if I can only check the first frame.
Indeed is this a true waveform vectorscope of just a pretty picture.
Perhaps it's me but I can't get anywhere near 4 min/gig on my 4 gig micropolis
AV at the highest quality.
Custom record settings don't save the audio settings.
The spiffy AVI CODEC gismo that lets ANI video disguise itself as an AVI file
is too cool except for the system overhead of displaying that huge "Playing to
video monitor" window that makes the video skip.
The complete lack of any actual editing capability, the Template scripting is
neat but I would like to be able to trim, split and join as we could with the
PAR, even just to remove unnesisary heads and tails from the ends of captured
video to free up room on the drive.
I could go on but I can see I'm starting to get picky.
Please let me know if there is any hope for us "bleeding edge" types
Peter Knowles
Cornerstone Studios
Montreal Quebec
Peter,
Thanks for posting your observations on the PVR. Several of us went through the
teething pains with the PAR and I sympathize with you plight. However, in the
end most of the problems with the PAR were resolved. One of the things about
being the first on your block with new technology is that you have to go
through that process, it was true of the PAR and equally true of the MAX, the
PVR being an even more sophisticated piece of hardware makes it that much more
likely there will be more problems… it seems that its exponential that way…
But, and here's the important thing, your posting brings it out into the open
so that these issues can be addressed and dealt with, and while DPS does not
provide CIS support, I'm sure they are closely monitoring the situation… I
think your candor in this matter will help to resolve these issues much more
quickly, and all will benefit as a result. While I'm sure its frustrating to
some degree, you can feel good about the fact that your blazing new trails for
the rest of us… and for that we all thankyou. Just wanted you to know that
there is a positive side to all this, and hope that you'll feel a little better
about the situation as a result…
John
John,
Thanks fo your assurance, I too started out early with the PAR as well as Razor
Pro. They both had some growing pains, I have no objection to this, it's the
price we pay for being first. My current stress is related to the possibility
of not having these problems dealt with. I know as we all do the PVR/Speed
razor setup will be outasight soon enough, it's just that until then I'm up the
creek.
Wishing I was going to Siggraph!
Peter
Peter,
>> Wishing I was going to Siggraph… <<
Both the people you've provided info for will be attending… and several
others as well… The dropped frame issue is serious. I didn't realise that
this was your only means for transferring your animations though, that'll make
it rough. Maybe your dealer or DPS would be willing to provide you with a PAR
in the meantime… if that would help.
John
Peter,
I've reposted your concerns along with mine and Faxed them to DPS.
I would assume that they won't be able to see it until sometime Monday so by
Monday Evening we should all be enlightened.
Murph'
>> As for the problem you mentioned about skipped frames DPS assured me there
would be no "patches" or bug fixes for the Win 3.1 version. <<
As Mr. Murphy has already stated, there is a fix on the way. All units in the
field will be updated to the latest version. If Peter or anyone else would
like more information, you can send queries to technical.support@dps-inc.com
Brick Eksten
>> As Mr. Murph has already stated… <<
Actually he stated just the opposite. At least the way I read it. <g>
Regardless, this is welcome news and glad to see you guys on top of it. Now is
that service or what? <G>
John
>> Actually he stated just the opposite. At least the way I read it. <g>
Regardless, this is welcome news and glad to see you guys on top of it. Now is
that service or what? <G><<
What do you mean I stated just the opposite!!
You better check the posting again John <BG>
I most certainly stated that Digital was working on the problem, I knew about
it, they knew about it ..and if anyone had information to the contrary I'd sure
like some kind of verificatoin because it's contraty to literally everything
I'd been told.
I have 100% confidence in Digital.
They have been very forthcoming regarding this problem and the statement made
by Peter Knowles regarding this situation seemed either pure speculation or
grossly misinformed.
I did all I could to get to the root of the facts regarding this situation and
as far as I'm concerned Peter either misunderstood something he was told or
had been talking to someone that didn't understand what he was asking.
Geeezzz Now you're trying to put this all on me, I don't understand what your
reading in to this.
Murph'
Holy smoke guys,
We're all getting a little tense around here, let's remember that we're all on
the same side.
All I ever wanted to know was what DPS was up to, it appears I spoke to someone
who didn't know, this person was however DPS's technical support rep here in
Canada. Now perhaps this may sound overly patriotic but DPS is a Canadian
company so I figured they would know what was going on! Sadly they and
therefore I don't seem to know whats going on.
I lose !!!
I spoke again today to DPS (Canada) and they assured me they would find out
whats up.
I also E-mailed DPS-INC.COM who I gather knows all, even though I don't know
who or where they are!!
We're all just trying to make sure our expensive toys work, can't we just be
glad the forum worked and we're all the wiser?
Sorry to have ruffeled so many feathers
Pete
Peter,
I try not to assume anything anymore when it comes to this industry but I did
beleive that either you were talking to someone be it a Canadian DPS or US
version of it, that was either not fully informed or possibly misunderstood
what it was you were asking him.
I certainly meant nothing personal and even though I was concerned about what
it was you had stated I was just trying to get to the bottom of this so we all
could have the facts regarding DPS's position regarding Terry's as well as
several other's problems regarding the PVR.
As I suspected whomever you talked to didn't have a clue as to what was
happening and most likely it wasn't even his responsibility to know.
There is no Blame or Fault on anyone's part we're all in this together and the
whole idea of this open forum is so that things like this get to see the light
of day so we all can get the facts and these problems can be solved as quickly
with the most accurate feedback possible.
James ( featherless ) Murphy <BG>
Murph'
Peter,
We have had our heads down for a while working on our NT version
and the Perception version in particular. All will be revealed
shortly. We are having a major rollout at Siggraph. You will be
able to see the Perception running on a variety of machines
from Intel machines up to 300 MHz Alphas (boy do they scream!).
We have the Perception working with Speed Razor here in the Labs
and we are presently testing the software to make sure everything
is up to snuf! Having been through several rounds of testing
already, it is looking really solid. Nothing quite beats the
ability to do straight cut edits and just see the result with no
rendering…
Jamie Carr
in:sync
Jamie,
I'm drooling, and very grateful for your posting. I don't go to west coast
Siggraphs so I'll have to wait to see your new baby. I've ordered 1.4(?) of
Razor Pro to tide me over as I understant a little fooling with the AVI CODEC
will let me use it with the PVR. I'll upgrade to Speed Razor M3 as soon as you
can ship, could I get it at Siggraph? (I have an associate going). or do I have
to wait and dream? any info would be great!
Thanks
Pete
Jamie,
Since I've complained publicly about RazorPro in the past, I thought I should
now make some positive comments.
I've been using RP very heavily for the past week (version F) and I must say it
has been very reliable and very fast. I've rendered a 4000 frame animation and
the whole thing takes about one hour to complete.
I've also enjoyed the great transitions and effects. I particularly like the
freeze frame and luminance fade. RP really does work well and it has allowed me
to do some serious editing to an animation — I don't know how I would have
done it without RP.
I just wish you could combine RP with Animator Studio so I wouldn't have to go
out of RP to do painting tasks to individual frames. RP also needs a much
better titler (I've sent Eron a fax with some suggestions.)
BTW, what a great tech support guy you have (Eron)! He actually calls you back
when he says he will and he will even admit to bugs or problems in the program
(instead of the usual Tech Support policy of automatically blaming all problems
on Qemm, Stacker, Intel, your IDE card, etc.) He's smart, knowledgeable, and a
pleasure to talk to. Hope you keep him around.
Alec Jason
I'll have to "second" that notion regarding Eron (and Jamie also). No matter
how angry I've been in the past with getting RP to work, talking to either of
them always soothes me. Another plus is: once in awhile, late at night, I'll
call their office on a chance that someone else might be burning the midnight
oil, and JAMIE ANSWERS! Totally Kick ASS! I wish every company out there had
that kind of tech. support. I'm sure I just ruined Jamie's evening
productivity though. Sorry. I'm sure you won't be getting that many calls at
night, since most animators go home right at 5PM <g>. Seriously though, since
Rel. "f" of RP, I've been using it more and more with no problems. I also know
not to run PAR.EXE before using RP. That was a big help.
Regarding the PVR woes of this thread, I can sympathize. I received the first
one out of Digimation's chute –> Got me a 4GB Micropolis, a nifty little two
bay powered external box –> Had a custom cable made for external SCSI (since
DPS left that little necessity out of mine and others' box) –> jacked around
with it for a day to get it running, realized that the drive was double
terminated –> And BAM! I had me an operating PVR.
Well now… I had already promised to ship my PAR/TBCIV/Drives to a guy here on
CIS, but this PVR contraption that I had spent the last two days setting up; 1)
Didn't appear as a DOS drive for 3DS (so my PAROUT utils didn't work anymore),
2) Didn't work with the RP version for Win 3.1.
So… no problem. The PAR's back in the machine, and the PVR sits in the
corner and taunts me. At least it doesn't have that silly monster-deck on the
box. That would really upset me. As stated earlier, one pays for riding the
crest of the technology wave. I just called the guy that I promised to sell
the PAR stuff to, and told him he'd have to wait with the PVR crowd. Boy, this
"Hype" marketing stuff really must work. I'm like a kid who has to have the
latest and greatest toy. What! Santa didn't leave any friggin' batteries?<g>
Okay… that's enough. I've gotten way off path.
Can't wait to see everyone at SIGGRAPH.
Later,
Darrin Sabin
I'm glad to hear that you have also had good experiences with RP tech support.
Be sure to see them at SIGGRAPH as they told me they'll have 21 machines
running Razor demo's.
I'm interested to know what you mean by your statement:
<< I also know not to run PAR.EXE before using RP >>
I always run PAR.EXE before using RP and I haven't had any problems. What
happens when you do it?
Alec Jason
Alec,
<<I always run PAR.EXE before using RP and I haven't had any problems. What
happens when you do it?>>
For the particular project I was working on, PAR.EXE would reset any/all
settings and would screw up my RP output settings. The RP composition used
some captured video, as well as some CG animations. Since they each had
different Q-factor and compression variables, RP would hang on random frames
during final renderings. Jamie told me I shouldn't be running PAR.EXE before
using RP… inside or outside of Windows. DPS has supposedly come up with a
fix for it. At the time, I was forced to workaround it. It was rather
frustrating at the time however, since the RP manual says nothing about
steering away from PAR.EXE.
Later,
Darrin Sabin