#Modelling Help
14 messages in this thread
Hello. I'm an "amateur" 3DS4 user…with the amateur meaning that I actually
_enjoy_ modelling, as opposed to most pros I know, who consider a modelling a
nasty thing that has to be finished before the real work is done, preferably by
someone else.
This also means that I do not have a great deal of tools to work with…I
can't afford them! Things like BonesPro et.al. are beyond me. I have a few of
the IPAS disks.
What I would just like to know are a few short techniques experienced
modellers out there are willing to share on creating organic forms using just
the base tools…slow torture without MetaBalls, I know. <G>
I try things like trying to extrude the planes of a human face from a flat
grid by moving vertices by hand. This probably sounds ludicrous to the good
modellers, but hey, I'm experimenting. I try creating cross-sections of
organic forms with lofted shapes, etc. I've been modelling off and on now for
a few months, but those darn living objects….I can create spaceships like you
wouldn't believe, but hell, ANYONE can make a spaceship if they can think in 3D
and are a dab hand in paint-programs creating maps.
I know most of you all out there are pretty busy doing important things, but
if you could drop a few tips, I'd greatly appreciate it. I bought 3DS as a
tool, but I just can't stop having fun with it to get serious. 🙂 The
tutorials are the best I've even seen, but creativity can't taught by books.
Thanks in advance,
Chase Dahl
occupation: baker
hobby: 3D nerd 😮
Chase,
The best way for organic shapes without any IPAS routines is to use the
Loft/Fit with user defined cross section. If you are having problems visualing
the the cross section take a precreated 3d Mesh like one of the heads on the CD
or one at Avalon then take that shape and use the boolean to cut it up so you
get a bunch of cross sections. Use these cross section as templates in your 2d
Shaper by using display 3d Objects to create your 2d objects for the lofter.
Peter W.
Peter:
Thank you for the tips. I understand that the deform tools, especially fit,
are the most powerful modelling tools in 3DS, but they are a bit hard to
conceptionalize. I guess I need to work with Fit more. Thanks!
Chase
>> If you are having problems visualing the the cross section take a
precreated 3d Mesh like one of the heads on the CD or one at Avalon then take
that shape and use the boolean to cut it up so you get a bunch of cross
sections. Use these cross section as templates <<
What a great idea about how to "reverse engineer" an existing model.
Thanks!
– Ernie Jackson, 73177,2354
11-Aug-1995 09:29:37 PDT
>> What I would just like to know are a few short techniques experienced
modellers out there are willing to share on creating organic forms using just
the base tools<<
Ahh.. without a doubt I would recommend," 3D Studio Tips & Tricks Series –
Animals & People", by Michele Bousquet. Easy to follow. Come to think of it,
check out the whole series. Enjoy!
Bill – Triffet Animation Co.
Chase,
for heads I create a bunch of "slices" (16 or so) in the 2d shaper and then
brought them into the lofter on a surfrev path. The "slices" are cross-sections
of a head from the top. Do half the head and then when happy (or just to
visualize), do a mirrored clone of it, weld the 2 halves together, auto-smooth.
There's a lot of tweaking of verts involved but the results can be spectacular.
I used a similar technique, with the addition of the skin plug-in, for the film
"Virtuosity". I modelled heads of Hitler, Manson, John-Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey
Dahmer, and some others from photos. Texture and bump maps can add extra
details where geometry is lacking.
have fun.
Martin:
Now that you've modelled Hitler, Gacy and Dahmer will you be marketing a new
line of meshes, "People for Killing People for People"? Man, Rachel is gonna
hate me for that one. <G>
– Bob Ritger
Bob,
>> Now that you've modelled Hitler, Gacy and Dahmer <<
uh-oh! you forgot Manson and he's still alive you know. He has a huge ego and
will be very upset that you missed him out. <g>
>> will you be marketing a new line of meshes, "People for Killing People for
People"? <<
ROFL! Funny thought … but no. I'd like to do some more work with these
characters heads, but it would be more like self-promo work.
I had an idea to do an OJ charicuture, but you know he's got a large legal team
…..
Martin
Martin:
Thanks for the tips. It's good to see a pro help a novice out 🙂
I've been working with the fit tools to create shapes, such as the human
torso, but it seems that most of my work is not with the "front and side" views
of the shape (the X and Y fit shapes), but rather concentrates on the "top"
view shape. I think I'll ditch the deform/fit and really work on simply
creating the proper cross-sections in the 2D shaper.
Again, thanks!
Chase
Chase,
>> I think I'll ditch the deform/fit and really work on simply creating the
proper cross-sections in the 2D shaper. <<
you could get away without the deform/fit, (there's lots of ways of doing this
stuff), but then the onus is on you to create the right path length/vertex
positions and to move the slices into the correct position on the X/Z plane.
IMHO, a head lends itself well to surfrev'ing whereas a torso lends itself more
to deform/fit.
You could do worse than borrow or buy a copy of "3d Studio Special Effects"
from NRP (New Riders Publishing). I wrote 3 chapters and one was how to build
human forms using the deform/fit multiple cross-section method. All the shapes
are supplied, can be analyzed, and I hope will be heavily modified for peoples
custom use.
Martin
Chase,
>>modeling on a shoestring…
As well-mentioned, you can model some amazing things using the deform/fit
method. You might also try a shareware program called GIFDXF, which deforms a
mesh by using the brightness values in a bitmap GIF file. This is
approximately the same effect you can get with the (much more powerful) Yost
Displace IPAS. Although GIFDXF is more suited for building things like terrain
than organisms, it is possible to paint a face, for example, turn it into a
mesh, then manually splice it to a head.
BTW, don't discount modelling by editing on the face/vertex level. Believe it
or not, many expert modelers spend a lot of time dragging vertices around. All
the low-res People For People models, as well as Tom Knight's excellent
high-res human (and other) models were done manually.
You can start with a basic primitives such as a sphere or cylinder (or a rough
Deform/Fit loft) and modify it on the object, face, edge, and vertex level.
Set up user-views to work in where appropriate. Use Modify/Vertex/Weld
(drag&drop) to collapse unwanted faces. I like to use Modify/Edge/Divide and
Modify/Edge/Turn to add and adjust faces where more complexity is needed.
(Very powerful but often overlooked functions) You can also use Create/Vertex
and Create/Face/Build to add faces where needed. Experiment with operations
like Bend, Taper and Scale on selection sets of vertices.
Don't be afraid of booleans – they can be used to provide a good starting point
for manual editing.
Render a lot from different angles as you work. You might also try a small
free IPAS that Gus Grubba wrote called View (I think). It will let you swing a
mesh object around in 3D in wireframe or with shading – makes it easier to
evaluate the true shape of a surface. The Yost Optimize and Displace IPAS
routines are good for this (much better, in fact).
Another modeling tip – assign the most commonly used functions like
Select/Vertex/Quad and Modify/Vertex/Move to function keys. This will improve
productivity tremendously.
Also, at the risk of blasphemy, some "organic modelers" around here use other,
cheaper, 3D packages primarily to supplement the 3DS modeler. There also have
been freeware DOS and Windows metaballs modelers available here which you can
use to make very organic meshes to bring into 3DS.
One last thought – be very careful! You are flirting with the Rendered Side of
the Force. I too started this as a hobby but it eventually consumed my entire
sense of self and now it is all I do.
JKJ
JKJ:
Thank you for your very _complete_ and concise guide to "cheap rendering" (I
even bought 3DS4 when I was in Art School, so I got it, Liquid Speed, and
AniPro 1.3 for $800. The Art School was a total waste of time, but the package
wasn't).
But what you said kinda made me heave this big, long-suffering sigh. I knew
that one of these days I was gonna have to move individual vertexes around.
Tedious, but hey, if it gets the results…the problem, of course, is getting
lost in 3D space, but I think I will try to find that IPAS that lets you rotate
a mesh in real time.
I tried creating a human figure the other night using spheres that I folded,
spindled, and mutilated…and was rather surprised by the result! The trick is
not to know how to _model_, but rather knowing how to _break anatomy down_.
I've done a lot of traditional character studies. I guess the real secret is
to _know your tradition art s**t first_, then to translate it into 3D. I was
just have trouble with the translation! Anyway, back to the spheres: I was
really pleased with the torso, but the limbs still had that icky mannequin-like
(not Mannequin the program..which I found used for $20 at a used book
store…too bad I hate the models Mannequin produces!) quality. I guess that's
where the moving vertices around helps.
Anyway, thanks again. I've been stunned at the quality and quantity of advice
I've been getting since sending out my S.O.S. The Brotherhood and Sisterhood
of 3D Modellers has really come to my rescue. <G>
Chase "The Missing" Dahl
Pusrocket Studios
>>long-suffering sigh, pushing vertices…
I thought you said you enjoyed modeling? <g>
When working with vertices, be sure to turn on Vertex Ticks in the
Display/Geometry tree. Usually it's best to select and half of the faces of an
object from, for example, the top view and hide them. Then select a vertex or
two from, say, the front view, then move it, "selected", from a side view.
Render a lot from a camera or user view to see what's going on, using flat or
gouraud shading with regions for speed. Also, make sure you go thru all the
tutorials in the manual – I did them twice.
Some people have taken mannequin and other models as a starting point and
edited them into something more useful. Martin Foster's comments on lofting
using crossections would probably be a faster way to realistic models. For a
really good time, try to get a metaballs package.
I think you're right about the art/craft/modeling relationship. All this
technology makes it very easy for almost anyone to do some really worthless
stuff!
JKJ
Believe it or not, when I decided to try my luck at a human face, I used many
of the vertex-moving procedures you described in your last message. I
basically gave it up as a bad, tedious job…kinda like my real one 🙂 That's
when I bellowed for help…and found the tedious ways were really the
best…hmmm…. <G>
Chase