CompuServe Thread

#Amiga & Other Multimedia

34 messages in this thread
#44774From: Andrew PorterDec 17, 1994 10:01 PM
>> Send me some EMail if you care to talk any further. We can keep this in public if you want to see if anyone else wishes to contribute. I was taking a course in MM development on the Mac which included products like Photoshop, Illustrator, SoundEdit, Director, Premier, CoSa AfterEffects and others. It was good to see how the other side does it. Although the products are more expensive than their Amiga Counterparts I believe that in most of the cases the extra costs are justified. I was impressed with the feature set, flexibility and professionalism that they offered and I understood why the Amiga was not more widely accepted as a professional platform. Of course, the Amiga can still multitask circles around any other mainstream system (for what it is worth). I have done a few small projects on the Amiga (mainly AmigaVision) but my biggest (and only paid one) was done on Windoze: a Kiosk installation. What have you developed? Andrew ICAM — ActiveMedia Development / IICS "InforMedia" Newsletter Editor Gliding in from Toronto on AutoPilot…
#44778From: Ed VishootDec 18, 1994 9:55 AM
Andrew, Glad you changed the topic – that was the main reason for my suggestion about email, but I also figured not many would be interested. Your exposure to the MAC prodcuts for MM development puts you in the driver's seat in this discussion because I have no hands-on with those products. Since you've stirred my interest, could you please expand upon your comments that (usually) with the MAC products you are more impressed with the feature set and flexibility? I have used AVPro, SCALA, CanDo, and just started playing with HELM on the Amiga. In my limited experience, flexibility has never been a problem (thank you Bill for ARexx!) although feature sets among these packages vary. Your professionalism observation goes unchallenged because I think you are correct – probably a result of the size of the market however. Strangely enough, I strongly feel that good MM requires good multitasking, unless of course one is happy to live within the constraints on any one particular MM product/environment <grin>. Hummm, looks like this is just a reflection of my comments on flexibility. Our applied backgrounds are a lot more similar than I would have expected! I have also done several small projects on the Amiga and then on big kiosk system but all mine where done on the Amiga. The kiosk was a lot of fun and a little challanging – had to use dual laser disc players. Why is it that all paying clients want it yesterday? EdV
#44791From: Andrew PorterDec 20, 1994 12:12 AM
Ed, >> I also figured not many would be interested. I'm sure there will be some others who might want to drop in… Well, Amiga products are often very competitive on a feature for feature comparison but I feel that _sometimes_ Amiga developers will throw things in just to say that yes, it does that, even if it isn't very useful (FinalWriter is an example of this). Scala is one exception and there are others but many products seem just shy of the finely tuned edge that is required in a pro setup. Amiga products are flexible but I feel sometimes you have to go through contortions inorder to make use of that flexibity. That isn't to say the Amiga can't be used in a pro setup, just that you have to be willing to make a few sacrifices, once in a while (don't you always???). I have more than once pushed a product to the limit and found that it broke. To clarify on the flexibility issue: the Amiga environment as a whole is more flexible but the individual parts seem to be less so. For example, I have been using PhotoShop on the Mac and OpalPaint and ImageMaster R/t on the Amiga. IM R/t has lots of features but isn't the easiest product to use and the interface often works against productivity (too many menus to scroll though, IMO). OpalPaint is a great program but there are some parts that could be enhanced (It seems like a sampling of all the high end features in PhotoShop and others). But both IM and OP (combined) are less than the cost of PhotoShop. PhotoShop has so many options that it's not so much HOW do you do something but which way to do it (this can be both good and bad). OTOH, the graphics that I created with OpalPaint would have been more difficult on the Mac (and in fact I don't even know how I would have done it in PhotoShop because they used colour stencils, a feature which I don't thing is available in PhotoShop in that form.) The bottom line, IMO, is that in a so-called 'pro' environment, it isn't so much what it costs but if it does the job, right, the first time. For me, if I want to actually make money in this business I have to use the accepted tools (although I will keep Ami). >> Strangely enough, I strongly feel that good >> MM requires good multitasking Agreed, I miss MT everytime I use a Mac or PC. In fact, I just bought OS/2 for my PeeCee with the hope I can get away from Windoze. Aside from MT the one area that the Amiga was a leader in was innovation. The kiosk I did just used teeny-tiny AVI clips and static bitmap graphics. It was a horror when we took it from the development system to the kiosk system: the video stopped working. Turns out it was the video driver which was incompatible with the AVI player in ToolBook. I wanted (and tried) to do it on the Amiga but I was working for a PC house and old habits die hard. >> Why is it that all paying clients want it yesterday? Not only that but the want it ALL, yesterday. Your project sounds quite impressive. How long did it take you? What was the product that you were selling. Did you use AVPro?
#44796From: Ed VishootDec 20, 1994 9:38 AM
Andrew, Interesting comments about your perceptions of software for the Amiga and MAC. Can't help but wonder how much of your perception is related to your first hand "training" on how to use those "power" tools – like one can simply go to their local college and take a course on ImageMaster R/T <grin>! I typically hear folks rant and rave about PhotoShop's ease-of-use, not that it has so many options! In fact when it comes to features/options, I haven't run into anything that comes close to IM – and you're right, that's good and bad. Deciding HOW to do something can be harder than actually doing it. Don't know if I like the idea of a "pro" environment as you descibe it, if I don't learn something from the experience (like trying different options — can't tell you the number of fascinating things I've learned this way <grin>) then it's become a boring 9-5 job. I can, however, relate to making money (someday I'll learn that too :-). The kiosk system I did was for a manufacturer that wanted to show his goods to the masses at a large trade show. Client already had a lot of video of the individual products so it was a natural for laser disc. The hardest part came when the client said he wanted to use as many components as possible of an existing PC based training system they already owned and assurances that it will look significantly better than it! A LONG week later and the system had to be shipped. I was still in the "it would look better if we slightly changed this graphic/operation/response/etc" infinite loop process <grin>! I guess I was the only one concerned about those itty-bitty things because the client loved it and things went apparently extremely well at the show (can you believe no budget for me to go). I used SCALA for this particular system but sometimes think AVPro might have been better suited especially with all the external control I was using, but heck it worked. Now if I could find more paying jobs. It's amazing how many free ones there are <grin>! EdV
#44815From: Andrew PorterDec 21, 1994 2:18 AM
Ed, Yes, you are correct that the excellent training made me appretiate the products all the more. And that training also assisted me when I went back and worked with OpalPaint and IM. Photo-Shop is pretty option rich (for what is basically a paint package). It doesn't have heaps of effects or morphing (although you can get more if you want) but it has lots of good image processing tools such as multiple Alpha channels, selection tools, and, with the new version, composite tools. I personally don't use filters all that often and I have to admit that I have only looked at the morphing part of IM. One thing that I particulary liked that IM seems to lack was the DuoTone feature which lets you apply colours to specific ranges in a grayscale image (ie. you could have hilites white, midtones blue and darks purple). This is something that could be done with IM and OpalPaint (probably with stencils) but it would require a lot more work (Does ADPro or ImageFX have that feature 'cause it's great for spicing up a b&w image?) I don't want a 9-5 job, just something that pays enough to let me buy my toys and have something left over and which ideally would let me use those toys in my work. I go by the motto in regards to work that if the employer doesn't watch what time I come in I won't watch what time I go home (with the implication that I will work until it is done and not simply leave at 5.) You did all that in a week???!!! Did you sleep at all? How did you get Scala to control the video disk? ARexx? >> Now if I could find more paying jobs. It's amazing how many >> free ones there are <grin>! I think the market is growing so there should be a good chance of paid work in this field. Unfortunately, there are lots of people willing to work for free…Luckily, working for free will eventually mean that you can actually get paid for it. My kiosk took 11 weeks from begining to end. That included learning Multimedia Toolbook (which I had never seen before but is similar to Helm), graphic and temporal design, scanning products, digitizing some video and setting up h/w. For what I did it would have been realistically about a month on the Amiga, or if for a deamon like yourself perhaps a week or two. 8^) It would have run much faster and looked much better on the Amiga but who was I to complain: I learned a new set of products and got paid to do it! I just had a disaster with my current Mac project: I discovered how easy it is to format a Mac HDD. On the Amiga you get two chances to cancel. The Mac is, shall I say, less forgiving. One chance and then none of the recovery s/w seems to be able to get more than 25% of the files back. In fact, the recovery s/w is really stupid: it only looks for files that it knows (ie. excel files, or word files etc. but not QT movies or Director films.) Luckily my design is pretty simple and I have most of the graphics on my Amiga so I should be able to build it up again before the Friday deadline. Anyway, it's late and I have to get a rendering started to work overnight (Aladdin doesn't MT when it renders).
#44822From: John ChangDec 21, 1994 10:33 AM
Andrew, PMFJI, Scala has EXes that can control most Philips, Sony and Pioneer serial controllable laserdisc players. The MM300 product also includes EX modules for the GVP G-Lock and Digital Creations SuperGen series of genlocks. Regards, John Chang
#44909From: Andrew PorterDec 29, 1994 12:45 PM
John, Sorry for the delay, Christmas and all… >> What's this you were not able to break MM300? ;-} I don't rightly know. Unfortunately, I don't recall exactly what I said but I suspect I ment that I have not used Scala although I have seen it demostrated on numerous occasions (never got it because most of my work requires distribution with a player). I perhaps ment that AmigaVision and other products can be easy to "break" when it is pushed to the limit, ie. Guru. I may have been asking Ed if he found Scala to be stable. Anyway, nothing incideous was ment by it (such as "breaking" the copy-protect dongle) I assure you. 8^) Thanks for the info on the external support in Scala. I guess Scala doesn't support the OpalVision board, huh? Andrew ICAM — ActiveMedia Development / IICS "InforMedia" Newsletter Editor Gliding in from Toronto on AutoPilot…
#44940From: John ChangDec 30, 1994 12:54 PM
Andrew, >Anyway, nothing incideous was ment by it (such as "breaking" the copy-protect dongle) I assure you. I wasn't thinking of that. ;-} However, there are some problems with MM300, which we hope to address in a maintenance upgrade. We have workaround solution for the most serious bug. See SCALAFIX.LHA in the Amiga Arts/Multimedia library for details. About a year ago, we had approximately 30% of the OpalVision EX finished. However, OpalTech was making fundamental changes to their software to accomodate the Video Suite stuff (i.e. Roaster Chip support) that we halted development until it was completed. Well, now its almost, almost finished. But, of course, we now we have this Commodore problem. Sigh.
#44956From: Andrew PorterDec 31, 1994 2:14 PM
Well, if you can get the OV support I would have a reason to get Scala but as I only have an ECS system it would be a bit of overkill for me to get it now. It's unfortunate that the fate of the Amiga puts into doubt all the other wonderful products that are or will be available.
#44966From: Vance SchowalterJan 1, 1995 3:18 AM
Did you see the Amiga ads in January 1995 Amiga World? There were a couple of custom Amigas shown. One was the A2200 and the other was PAWS, a laptop Amiga. Both could help fill the void until this mess with CBM assets is sorted out.
#44990From: Andrew PorterJan 1, 1995 11:11 PM
How's it going? >> Did you see the Amiga ads in January 1995 Amiga World? Yes, I did. The "A2200" is apparently a re-engineered CD32 and of the two I find it most interesting. It indicates that there is at least an anticipated demand for Amigas out there. I don't know if I would buy one, however, because Computer Answers do not have the best reputation out there.
#45040From: John ChangJan 5, 1995 3:06 PM
Indeed it is unfortunate. A positive growth in the Amiga's development and market will be necessary before we do new products for the platform. We are keeping an open mind and hopeful wish that the situation will turn out well. In the meantime, we must continue to put our time and resources into developing for other platforms. Regards, John Chang
#45107From: Richard BeausangJan 9, 1995 1:43 PM
'Tis very unfortunate. I suppose the major thing making developers wait and see is whether new machines will be effectively produced and promoted. I just bought a used copy of SCALA. Wow! What a product! It really is as good as the hype. Couldn't stop watching the demo program. Only problem I could see is someone needs to learn how to spell "continuous". I'm sure your product for other platforms will be great but after messing around with this a little, I can see how the Amiga is really the best platform for your product.
#44840From: Charles BlaquiereDec 21, 1994 11:51 PM
Andrew, > (Duotones are) something that could be done with IM and OpalPaint Actually, just ole Imagemaster will do. I'm more than happy to share this: I consider it my best discovery yet. Load an image into Imagemaster. Use Standard Adj/Luma to turn it into a greyscale. Go to the Paint/Palette screen. Unless you changed the palette, the screen is set up for an instant greyscale palette: just click on Spread. Change the color space to HSV. Now comes the fun part: pick a midtone, like color 128, click and give it a saturation of, say, 64 and a hue of 16. Then spread from color 112 to 128, and 128 to 144. You've progressively added color to the middle area of a greyscale, without disturbing the brightness values. Now add more tones to your palette: set color 64 to hue=0 and sat=64; spread from color 48 to 64, and from 64 to 80. Then set color 192 to hue=32 and sat=64, and spread from color 176 to 192, and 192 to 208. Exit back to the main menu, select the entire image, and select Process/Special FX/Map to Palette. Presto! Your image has gained subdued colors in certain ranges. The key is really to keep saturation levels low. I normally use this technique with only one hue, placed at color 128 in the palette; I then spread from color 0 to 128, and 128 to 255. The result is a single-hue image, but saturation drops to zero at the ends of the palette, so blacks are pure black and whites are pure white. Blaq!
#44910From: Andrew PorterDec 29, 1994 12:45 PM
Charles, Sorry for the delay, Christmas and all… >> Actually, just ole Imagemaster will do. I'm more than happy to share >> this: I consider it my best discovery yet. Thanks for your suggestion. That is a great solution! I have to admit that I have only used IM for format conversion and a few of the F/x filters. I normally use OpalPaint for image manipulation but OP doesn't have a palette map feature. I'll give your idea a try. Thanks. The thing I love about powerful software is that you can always learn of new ways to do things…
#44848From: Ed VishootDec 23, 1994 7:38 AM
Andrew, Sorry to hear about your formatted disk disaster! I've had my fair share of "operator boo-boos" on just about all the platforms I've played with. One of my more memorable ones was the "rm -f" I typed into a shell on a SUN workstation — it opened up a lot of disk space for me! Back to your situation, I am a little surprised you don't have a quicker means of transferring data between the Amiga and the MAC other than SneakerNET! Seems a little communication software and a null modem cable could make things easier and speedier for you. If you get some time, you might want to experiment with some of the other capabilities in IM (check out asterize if you want to burn up an interesting hour). That's one of the problems I have with IM — so many parameters and options to tweak, I end up doing a lot of experimentation. Don't know what you thought, but I liked the morphing section. I was pleasantly surprised with the results I generated doing a simple morph between my head and my wife's head (guess I've seen one too many TV commercials). As for a DuoTone feature, I don't have a method to do what sounds to me as palette manipulation operation, however, you might want to try Charles method (thanks Charles!). I don't know if ADPro or ImageFX has this feature either, although I do own both of those packages as well. Can you tell I don't do greyscale? Guess I've been lucky, have only had to deal with color images (yea, I know greyscale can be viewed as x-bit color image). Most of my challenges have been in reducing the number of colors in an image without destroying the image beyond recognition. The number of bit planes seems to have a big bearing on the performance of playback <grin>. This gets even more fun in animations. That week for the kiosk project was one of the longer weeks I've experienced — probably a lot like the one you are currently having <grin>. Controlling the Laser Disc was one of the first things I had to settle. Before I even selected the authoring software to use, I got the manufacturer's info on the control command set for the player (RS232 – serial based) and developed a simple but effective means of sending these commands out the serial port via ARexx and AmigaDOS. Worked just fine for my purposes, but then I found out both SCALA and AVPro had "Laser Disc Drivers" integrated within these packages that I could use. Fortunately, I spent only a few hours doing it my way, but it did give me the option to consider other authoring software solutions. Eleven weeks to deliver a product sounds fairly challenging to me if I had to learn a new authoring program in addition to the challenges of a new platform and it's method of "this is the way things are done here lad." Your points about doing this on the Amiga are some of the major reasons I "force" the Amiga solution for my multimedia endeavours and believe SCALA has even capitalized on it!
#44889From: John ChangDec 27, 1994 6:57 PM
>Your points about doing this on the Amiga are some of the major >reasons I "force" the Amiga solution for my multimedia endeavours and >believe SCALA has even capitalized on it! Yes indeed we do, especially with users like you! ;-} Happy New Year Ed! Regards, John Chang
#44911From: Andrew PorterDec 29, 1994 12:45 PM
Ed, Sorry for the delay but Christmas and all… >> Sorry to hear about your formatted disk disaster! Yes, it was a big disappointment but luckily I only felt sorry for myself for 12 hours or so (I resumed work at 4 AM the next morning). I was able to get the application in a presentable form by the end of the week which included a small anim and 8 screens. Enough to demonstrate intent and ability. I was literally working right up to the last minute. The last day I was a 28 hour day so I'm happy that at least I got something to show for it. The CD will be cut in a few weeks time but as I don't have a Mac I can't run it. 8( >> I am a little surprised you don't have a quicker means of >> transferring data between the Amiga and the MAC other than SneakerNET! Yes, unfortunately, the PowerPCs at the school were not equiped with Modems and I could not afford a Syquest drive. My Amiga and the Mac are 1/2 hour away from each other so it would have to be a really long null-modem cable. 8^) >> If you get some time, you might want to experiment with >> some of the other capabilities in IM Yes, I must experiment with IM some more. I use it a little bit more on each project so I am learning. To bad there isn't a course in it… >> Can you tell I don't do greyscale? Guess I've been lucky, >> have only had to deal with color images I for most of my photos I used a colour scanner but unfortunately I only had B & W pictures. >> I spent only a few hours doing it my way, but it did give me the option >> to consider other authoring software solutions. This brings us back to the flexibility of the Amiga platform, huh? You could have used the built-in support or develop your own. Did you ever use The Director? It controlled serial devices in the same way. How long did you say the kiosk was in use? Did you have any problems when it was actually being used? >> Your points about doing this on the Amiga are some of the major >> reasons I "force" the Amiga solution for my multimedia endeavours and >> believe SCALA has even capitalized on it! However, on the other hand, Asymetrix who publishes Toolbook provide excellent tech support. I suspect that Scala is probably pretty good but using AmigaVision means you have to solve all your problems by your own ingenuity, something that isn't the best when you have deadlines. (Heck, AV doesn't even come with a tech support number!) I would love to force an Amiga solution but I've found people aren't so much interested in pizzaz but if something is an industry standard. I know for a fact that if I had initially chosen the Mac or IBM I would probably be much more secure in my profession. So, do you have any projects on the horizion?
#44941From: John ChangDec 30, 1994 12:54 PM
Andrew, >I suspect that Scala is probably pretty good [Tech Support] I think we do a fairly good job. ;-} Regards, John Chang
#44957From: Andrew PorterDec 31, 1994 2:15 PM
John, >>> I suspect that Scala is probably pretty good [Tech Support] >> I think we do a fairly good job. ;-} That is worth the price of admission in itself! There is nothing like an approaching deadline to make you appretiate good tech support.
#45041From: John ChangJan 5, 1995 3:06 PM
Thanks for the compliments. Let me know if you have questions. I have all the answers. Well, most of them at least.
#44949From: Ed VishootDec 30, 1994 5:46 PM
Greetings Andrew, Glad to hear your project came off OK. I think you've just stole my "speed demon" title away — anyone that can cram 28 hours into one day has my upmost respect <grin>! Shoot, by my calculations (on a Pentium – hehe, it's a joke) you were only 10 minutes farther away between the MAC and the Amiga for a null modem cable to actually work! If I had a similar situation, I would have seriously considered physically taking my machine to the other and then performing a null modem transfer on the spot, but it would depend on how many floppies the transfer really amounted to — something you probably already factored. Somehow, I don't think there is enough of a market to support an IM course, which is unfortunate, because it is one of those products that almost requires that level of instruction to get the most out of it. I understand there is a video tape available that is suppose to do IM some justice, but that is only on hearsay since I don't have the tape myself. I'm not following you on your statements about flexibility and using "built-in support or develop your own." Develop my own is a gross overstatement for using AmigaDOS and ARexx commands, especially when compared to whipping out the C compiler. The Amiga offered me an incredibly easy solution to controlling the serial port connected laser players outside of any authoring program. Certainly built-in support is easier as long as all the capabilites of the player can be accessed, but what do you do if the built-in support isn't there? Will tech support whip up a special driver/program just for you, especially if the player you are using is an old obsolete model (which was my case)? I own the Director version 2, but must shamefully admit I haven't really used it 🙁 I have heard nothing but praise for the Director, but when Keith Doyle stopped development on it, it became yet another symbol for my bookshelf of what could have been. If I remember correctly, the Director was the program credited by lots of folks that used it to make those impressive entries for demo contests. Don't know if controlling laser disc players was high on the list of things to do back then <grin>. I can certainly relate to wanting tech support solutions when under a dealine, however, I rather enjoy problem solving. I also like to believe people like to pay for ingenuity, especially when it makes them look good. Forcing an Amiga solution is pretty easy with this philosophy — show them a well done animation while complex sounds are emitting and have them make a selection for more information (all running from an A1200) at the same time is usually enough to get tham asking if you can do this or that or even this-that <grin>. To be honest, I must admit that I had one person watch the "show" and tell me that his 486SX laptop could easily do that! Being the pig I am, I matter-of-factly asked him what software he was using that could do this and things went down hill pretty rapidly… What was really scary about this incident was that this person was on a "multimedia" council of a local college. The kiosk system I worked on was used at a trade show for 5 days straight. Was told it worked extremely well — no problems. This client came back for the kiosk about a month later for another show which lasted about 3 days. Of course I had to go in and "fix" those minor nits that bothered me but nobody else complained about. In the process I tried to optimise response times even further but didn't have enough time to check things out thoroughly. This time I heard the kiosk had to be "rebooted" after the second day — oopppssss. I don't buy your "industry standard" line <grin>! About the only thing I've seen that's even close to an industry standard in this multimedia madness is MPEG, but that's just my opinion. You do have a point about the Amiga solution now-a-days – it's getting darn hard to locate machines if you do sell it (certainly can't call that a standard!). There looks like there are a few nibbles for some future projects for me, but I'm not betting anything on them. One looks like a lot of fun – a computer based training system. Other than these nibbles, I'm basically unemployed.
#44958From: Andrew PorterDec 31, 1994 2:15 PM
Ed, >> anyone that can cram 28 hours into one day has my upmost respect Yes, it was difficult but luckily with the latest advances in time travel I was able to achieve it. >> Shoot, by my calculations (on a Pentium – hehe, it's a joke) you were >> only 10 minutes farther away between the MAC and the Amiga for a null <G> The sneakernet only involved about 20 diskettes so it wasn't worth lugging the 3000T around to set up a network. Luckily I invested in a HD drive so I was able to at least use 1.44 Meg disks. >> Somehow, I don't think there is enough of a market to support an I >> course, which is unfortunate… What! I'm sure there are "virtually" millions of IM users out there who would be willing to spend big bucks and take a course! In fact, I think I'll start a school based on it and I will have students from all over. >> I'm not following you on your statements about flexibility and >> using built-in support or develop your own." It was in regards to our earlier discussion about the Amiga's flexibility: you had a choice of how to do something without having to resort to compiling C source code. This is a GOOD thing. That choice may not have been as easy on Macs or PCs (where there isn't a commonly used interprocess communcation macro language such as ARexx). My story is similar to yours regarding Director2. I purchased it just before Doyle officially dropped out. I never used it to develop MM but I built (most of) a batch image scaling utility and some libraries to create automatic script based buttons. I stopped working with it when the AGA incompatibilities where made public. Now it sits on my bookshelf gathering dust. Dir2 had support for laserdisc in the same manner that you solved your problem: it had a serial port module which you could use to send messages to the port. >> I can certainly relate to wanting tech support solutions when under a >> line, however, I rather enjoy problem solving. It's fun to workout problems but sometimes there isn't time to have fun. >> people like to pay for ingenuity I disagree: people want ingenuity but usually don't want to pay for it. >> Being the pig I am, I matter-of-factly asked him what software he was >> using that could do this and things went down hill pretty rapidly… Did he tell you what he was using? I know that my 486SX laptop will not do all that although it can do some things pretty well (and it has 256 colours instead of my Amiga's 16). >> Of course I had to go in and "fix" those minor nits…This time I >> heard the kiosk had to be "rebooted" after the second day — oopppssss. Yikes. One of the things that was drummed into me when I worked on my project is that if the client has approved it, don't do anything else. ie. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's a hard habit to break, however. >> I don't buy your "industry standard" line Well, there are no "industry standards" per se but there are standards that are more standard than other standards. ie, Director is an emerging standard for cross-platform development, just as PCs tend to be a "standard" for corporate based presentations (Yuck). IMHO. >> Other than these nibbles, I'm basically unemployed. It's hard being on the leading edge, huh? <BG> Same goes for me. BTW, whereabout are you located? Have you done CBT before?
#44970From: Ed VishootJan 1, 1995 12:23 PM
Having "virtually" millions of IM users would be a good thing and your school could then become fiscally sound <grin>. I've heard more than once that if an Amiga product sold over 100,000 copies it is considered a major hit 🙁 Of course since Black Belt Systems has a CLONE version called WinImages you may actually have a pretty good idea about that school! Humm, the more I think about it, the more I think you are on the right track – people don't want to pay for ANYTHING! Even more so in a commodity market: lowest price wins. So how does one compete in such a commodity market? The "board member of the multimedia council" sort-of-admitted he could remember the name of the package that gave his 486SX laptop Amiga 1200 capabilites. I started rattling off some of the major programs I've seen in the CLONE world and his eyes lit up when I mentioned PowerPoint – of course my eyes rolled back up into my head… Trying to fix something that isn't broken isn't a habit, its a law of nature <grin>! I guess if one believes that as long as MACs and CLONEs are the only machines out there, the Director may be just the solution. This is the reason I see MPEG more of a "standard," I've seen players for MPEG for all sorts of machines to include the rapidly fading Amiga. I'm personally a strong proponet of open standards/specifications that are not platform unique because that encourages cross-platform interoperability. Unfortunately, if one has the size of market the CLONEs current have, you probably couldn't care less about cross-platform interoperability. Humm, I guess when everybody owns a CLONE then there won't be a problem at all… Didn't you mean `bleeding edge' <grin>? Don't know how much longer I'm going to continue messing around with this stuff, especially if the Amiga doesn't resurface soon. Doing MM on the Amiga has been more like playing and I get the impression that MM on those other creatures are more like work. If I have to work, then I should seriously consider going back to the engineering world. I've done a real small scale version of CBT for my previous employer (US Air Force). I was trying to talk one of my superiors into doing something worth while with those 286 machines we had all over the place (this was several years ago). Worked on a simple question-answer training system which worked well for the limited scope application it was designed for. Even though my boss liked it so much he directed it's use for several units under his command, I could not convince him to do the same thing with "more important" daily job oriented applications. I look back at that adventure and chuckle about how easy and much more sophisticated project I could do now with my 2 year old Amiga technology <sigh>. I'm currently living in Dayton, Ohio. The birthplace of aviation – at least that is what all the signs around here tell me <grin>! EdV
#44991From: Andrew PorterJan 1, 1995 11:11 PM
Hi Ed, >> So how does one compete in such a commodity market? I dunno, good question though. I think there is still a sense of you get what you pay for and that some people realize that it's cheaper (in the long run) to pay more. As service providers we have to be convinced of that and convince our clients. Both are difficult. As an example, just look at the number of high-end DTP companies that are still in operation (not many but they are surviving). If lowest price was all that mattered then every Joe & Jane with a computer who was willing to undercut themselves would have a successful home based DTP company. However, home based DTP, in the majority of cases, doesn't work because people would rather pay $60/hr for the assurance that they are susposedly getting the best service. This trend of spending more isn't just because the value is perceived as being better (although that is a factor). It's also the impression that by having higher prices you have more staying power and will be able to provide service (in upgrades and support) over the long haul. A company that undercuts market values has to keep up the volume in order to stay liquid. This high volume results in two possible problems: Service is not as good & there isn't the fat to survive a market downturn. I have heard opinions that this was one of the problems with C=, they didn't charge enough. Here's another of my inane examples: If Scala (who are already undercutting the market) sold Scala300 for $100 and InfoChannel for, say, $300 the market would say "hey, there's something wrong here, Scala must be junk". They might not buy it because it is cheap. (Perhaps John Chang might want to comment on Scala Inc. pricing policy). Then Scala may only be used by hobbists and individuals like yourself who see the value in the product. Corporations, who are afraid of being left with orphaned products, would only look at the bottom line and think it suspicious, IMO. So this brings me back to my argument that PCs and Macs are more accepted because they have the impression of having more value because they were more expensive. And now they are the defacto standards. >> his eyes lit up when I mentioned PowerPoint Oh boy. Such amazing animation, huh? One of the interesting things that I noticed about the PowerMacs that I worked on was that the animation was very poor in comparison to the Amiga. I think this is because they don't have double-buffering. If you have large areas moving you can see the redraw blanking out the previous frame. >> I guess if one believes that as long as MACs and CLONEs >> machines out there, the Director may be just the solution. Director can be used to create CDi applications and will apparently support other players such as 3DO. In fact, I believe it is going to be used by QVC or some company for interactive TV. >> I see MPEG more of a "standard" Yes it is but it is a standard for linear video. Director is for interactive applications (although you could use an authoring program to create non-linear MPEG video). >> I'm personally a strong proponet of open standards/specifications >> that are not platform unique because that encourages cross-platform >> interoperability. Perhaps X-Script will solve that although I have heard it will be very expensive. >> Didn't you mean `bleeding edge' Uh, yes. It was a typo. >> Doing MM on the Amiga has been more like playing and I get the >> impression that MM on those other creatures are more like >> work. If I have to work, then I should seriously consider going >> back to engineering world. I know what you mean. Everyday I ask myself if I want to work in this field and everyday I come up with the same answer: a definite maybe. It sorta preferred it when I was a hobbiest but then it is hard to justify the constant spending. >> I'm currently living in Dayton, Ohio. The birthplace of aviation – at >> least that is what all the signs around here tell me <grin>! <BG>
#45243From: SyndesisJan 17, 1995 4:19 PM
That's why most high-end Mac users buy those $50-100 packs of utilities that include something like "filesaver" to preserve an extra set of directory info on their hard disks. Mine updates about every five minutes.
#44821From: John ChangDec 21, 1994 10:33 AM
Ed, Glad that you used Scala MultiMedia for the production. What EX modules were you missing? Which version of MM were you using for the project? Regards, John Chang
#44847From: Ed VishootDec 23, 1994 7:37 AM
Ended up using MM300 since I didn't need the time scheduling or remote updating capabilities of IC400 (guess I need to find a bigger project <grin>!). I didn't have an EX for the touchscreen but fortunately, my AVPro had an appropriate driver. Got a lot of respect for SCALA MMxxx when it comes to text handling/magic. In fact, the more text I see in a project, the more it pushes me to use SCALA as the authoring software. After all, "why make it harder?" Hehehe… EdV
#44882From: John ChangDec 27, 1994 11:14 AM
Ed, Glad you like the software. Bare in mind that despite its somewhat "magical" capabilities, it is not a full-fledged authoring program. Well, at least not yet. ;-} We've heard of problems using the AmigaVision drivers with certain touchscreens. CEI is an authorized Microtouch reseller and has an excellent driver for their hardware. I suggest looking into it when you have time. Regards, John Chang
#44894From: Ed VishootDec 28, 1994 9:17 AM
John, You hit the nail on the head! When it comes to presentations with lots of text, SCALA can't be beat. The computer geek in me always hunts for the "authoring program" aspects, so if SCALA is headed even more into that direction, all the better 🙂 The AVPro touchscreen driver I used was for the Elographics. Worked like a dream! Do you know which specific touchscreens/drivers that have problems – I would like to avoid the learn-the-hard-way lesson <grin>. Here's hoping your Holidays are joyous and prosperous! EdV
#44906From: John ChangDec 29, 1994 11:16 AM
As to authoring programs, itsa coming, itsa coming! Especially as we gain experience in our Interactive Television authoring and playback tool developments. I believe some people were having problems with the MicroTouch driver used on AGA based machines. CEI sells a complete MicroTouch touchscreen kit with monitor (CEI 1962). FYI, recently, Microtouch purchased the technology for the Visage touchscreen system. Instead of using a capacitive or resistive sensor, which is installed in the front bezel of the picture tube, the Visage uses "force vector" technology. The monitor sits on top of the Visage unit and using highly sensitive pressure sensors, it triangulates the coordinates. Unlike capacitive or resistive methods, there is no drift and therefore no periodic recalibration to be done. The benefit of the Visage, it is non-invasive, meaning that you don't have to tear apart a monitor to put in the touchscreen sensor. You can use any monitor, even a TV, up to 80 lbs. If the monitor breaks down, no problem, just add the new monitor, recalibrate and voila! You're back in business with minimum down time. From what I understand, they are going to re-introduce the product at the next COMDEX. We'll see.
#44948From: Ed VishootDec 30, 1994 5:46 PM
Just read the new products announcement in the Feb 95 AmigaWorld, and it looks like you've been holding out on us! Are you going to give us some DETAILS about `Backbone', `ITV', and `MD100' or do we have to turn DJ and rubber chickens loose (hope I got that chicken story right!). Sounds like some pretty interesting stuff. That Visage touchscreen system sounds great, especially if one can use any size monitor with it! Do you have any ideas on ball park prices? I ended up using a 14" monitor because I couldn't talk the client into spending the extra money for a 20" (big price difference!).
#45143From: John ChangJan 12, 1995 12:37 PM
Ed, I do talk about MMOS and Scala MultiMedia MM100 for the PC in a forum message that I posted yesterday. Check out the message I left for John Bennett. If you have any additional questions, I'll tell you what I can. Regards, John Chang
#44820From: John ChangDec 21, 1994 10:33 AM
Thank you for the compliments. What's this you were not able to break MM300? ;-} Regards, John Chang