CompuServe Thread

#CD ROM install?

45 messages in this thread
#76780From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 9, 1992 5:42 PM
Hi Michael, Well, it's an on going saga. I installed CDx and mounted cd0:. It says it's mounted, but nothing happens when I put in a cd rom. It goes in and the light goes on, but no Fred Fish. When I try to cd to it I get your basic "object not found". The install seemed to work,all the files were put in their little directories, but when I ran SCSI_lister there was only a listing for my quantum harddrive as #6. The Devise list utility gives it as unit 4 and boot priority 0. I think I set the DIP switches correctly to ID #4.,following docs for drive. What did I do wrong?! I know I should have tested BEFORE I put yukie case together. \c/ via Coolwhap __|__ Gracia
#76797From: Michael GerardNov 9, 1992 10:00 PM
Gracia: I'm going to quote myself here (from the dreaded text that strated this whole nightmare for you): "I don't have the software for the CD drive yet (you need to add a filing system to your devs directory) but I was able to flip the 'test' DIP switch to 'on', plug in my headphones to the drive, pop a CD in the caddy, and listen to my audio CD's. I'm assuming that is a pretty good indication that the CDROM drive is working… " SCSI_Lister should show you the CD Drive. By any chance did you leave the TEST dip switch in the ON position? How is the external scsi cable terminated? (at the last device? at the case?) What position is the ARBT switch in? Once the termination is set properly, and a unique ID set, you should be able to just power on the drive and run SCSI_Lister (before even mounting the drive) and have it show up. When I run SCSI_Lister, I get: Using "scsi.device" — Unit #0: No unit Unit #1: No unit Unit #2: TOSHIBA CD-ROM DRIVE:XM Rev:3232 etc… If all of the above checks out, teh CDx software should work fine, but: Did you specify 'scsi.device' in the CDx Installation procedure, as well as tell it that the CD drive is at scsi id# 4? Were you able to select TOSHIBA XM 3201B from the list of supported drives during the CDx set up procedure, and after all of that, did you select 'KEEP' to save the selections you made? I guess something else I didn't mention in my EXTEXP.LHA file was that I never put the cover back on the case until I'm sure I ve got something working. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if half the Amiga users out there that have ever opened their case to add/change something haven't bothered to replace more than one screw (_if_ they replaced the case at all!). Yes, the case should be on to ensure proper shielding and grounding… but… <g> When I run SCSI_Lister, I get: Using "scsi.device" — Unit #0: No unit Unit #1: No unit Unit #2: TOSHIBA CD-ROM DRIVE:XM Rev:3232 Unit #3: No unit <continued>
#76884From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 10, 1992 2:16 PM
Michael, At the risk of being really dumb, how do you get the tape drive mounted? I installed Ami-Back, which I was given to understand did all that. Am I assuming correctly or making you know what of u and me? I left the CD ROM dip switches down (default) except for the 3rd to the right which I put up (001=ID#4). I left the Tape drive at defaults since it was set to ID#0 and the guys at Moonlighter say that was cool. This SHOULD give me Quantum HD ID#6 (unit 6 in SCSI_lister: the others are NOT listed), CD ROM ID #4, and Tape drive ID #0, yes? BTW what does dip switch instruction in cd rom docs mean "the actual settings by the switches are changed only after the power is turned ON, if any settings are changed turn the power OFF once and ON again." Again I "assume" it means you turn off machine, change settings and then turn on again, at which time new setting takes over, the normal way to do things….or is there some hidden message there <;^}>? P.S. I don't own a music CD to test drive! No Hi Fi equipment at all. We "grits" can only handle one new toy at a time <g>. Gracia, on AP and hoping for the best.
#76901From: Michael GerardNov 10, 1992 5:23 PM
Gracia: Ok… you have the dip switches set properly on the CD Drive. Does the tape drive show up when you run SCSILister? You didn't tell me how you have this external setup terminated… and that is of the utmost importance. If the Archive Viper is terminated (mine has terminators on it), and the CD Drive is _physically_ located on the scsi bus after the tape drive, the CD drive can't be recognized by the host controller. The note in the docs about power on/off just means that if you change the dip switch settings on the CD Drive, the new settings won't take effect until you power down, and then power on again (just like re-booting the Amiga to get an assign command you added to your startup-sequence to take effect). As far as the Tape Drive goes… no, it doesn't need to be mounted because it is not the same type of device as a hard drive, or CD drive, which require filesystems… it's more like a scanner on the scsi bus. The software you use (AMIBACK) just has to know how to access the scsi bus, and be able to configure itself (either internally or throught the use of device drivers) to access the device. In the case of AmiBack, the software itself has an option that will 'read' the scsi bus and determine which tape drive you have and how AmiBack should access it. So, in short, you don't need to mount the tape drive. If you have any questions regarding the set up of AmiBack for use with the Archive Viper, let me know. The AmiBack documentation is pretty complete… but I found it a bit technical and hard to follow at first. Let me know about the termination on your external stuff… It sounds like that is where the trouble is. BTW, if the tape drive IS terminated, just try switching the scsi connectors (from the tape drive to the CD drive).
#77086From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 11, 1992 2:21 PM
Michael, Just so we're speaking the same language: the CD ROM has NO terminators ID #4, the tape drive came with terminators just as yours did (hiden underneath, I think) and I left it at the default settings ID #0; I put the CD ROM on bottom of case, tape on top: I have a round cable connected to SCSI port on CPU at one end and a 50 pin female centronics at one end of ribbon cable which is in bottom knock out space in case, continues on to CD ROM and is connected with 50 pin plastic (I don't know what one calls them) female to 50 pin male on drive, then continues on to Tape drive and connected the same way; the ribbon cable then continues on and ends with 2nd female 50 pin centronics in top knock out space. This translates to the tape drive being the last in line and terminated, correct? Lights go on, the CD RON takes disk, turns on light, spins for a minute and then…voila….nothing. cd0: is kind of there: DEVS has it, info tells me it's there but "unreadable disk", even DiskMaster shows it, I just can't cd to it or get a dir or USE it <;^}>. Chris tested the cable so I pretty sure it's good, possibly the plastic connectors need a good health push to make a connection. The tape slider did move with a little pressure, so I'll try all my new tricks tomorrw (John bitches if I stay in the studio too long at night).
#77106From: Christopher TolmieNov 11, 1992 3:51 PM
Gracia, Those plastic connectors are called headers. The ones with the metal clips on them are centronics connectors, I've heard them called "Blue Ribbon" connectors/headers (maybe 'cause they're blue in color?). Yes, I did test the cable. Had it hooked to my Syquest and External Tape units. I had Ami-Back rewind and retension a tape, then had it reconstruct a file catalog from one of my tapes already used for a backup. I did all this while Autopiloting in and out of CIS, and wrote files to the Syquest drive, so I feel safe in saying that the ribbon cable is assembled and tested OK. I would suggest you trying one device at a time. Terminated and if that don't work unterminated. Choose one of the devices, CDROM sounds to me like the one you want working NOW, so I'd use it first. If it doesn't work after all the incantations, black spells, voodoo curses, etc., then try the tape unit by itself. Let's get one working first, then we'll work on getting them working in unison with the rest of the system. Chris
#77107From: Michael GerardNov 11, 1992 3:53 PM
Gracia… When INFO reports that CD0: is there but unreadable, all that means is that you have issued the MOUNT CD0: command and the mount command found an entry in your mountlist. It doesn't mean that the drive is _really_ there. In fact, if leave the power to your external box OFF and boot, INFO will still show you: Mounted disks: Unit Size Used Free Full Errs Status Name CD0: Unreadable disk The fact that the drive accepts a disks, the light comes on, and then goes tells me that the drive is most likely working properly. I think you said you're using the CDx s/w from Xetec, right? Look in your Devs:Mountlist file… your CDx entry should look like this: /* CDx CD-ROM entry. Created by CDinstall v1.76, DO NOT EDIT! */ cd0: Device = scsi.device/0/0/4/0/20018/0/4/4E20 FileSystem = l:CDxFileSystem Unit = 4 Mount = 1 Flags = 0 Surfaces = 1 LowCyl = 0 HighCyl = 1000 Reserved = 2 BlocksPerTrack = 20 Buffers = 10 BufMemType = 1 Stacksize = 6000 Priority = 10 GlobVec = -1 MaxTransfer = 0x00FFFFFF Mask = 0x7FFFFFFE DosType = 0x444F5304 Make certain that CDxFilesystem is in your l: directory. Your cable (after the tape drive) has two 'stubs' that are open and unterminated… I don't know if this makes any difference or not. I would try to plug the physically last connector in to the tape drive, if possible. BTW, you might want to take the MOUNT CD0: command out of your startup sequence (just put a ";" (semicolon) in front of it) and issue the mount command manually. I do it this way (actually from an IconX icon) because I don't always have my external box powered up when I boot. Also, ScsiLister _will_ show the CDROM Drive if the box power is on, even if the device has not yet been mounted. Let me know your progress. . * <——- . | (would you believe a single rose <continued>
#77108From: Michael GerardNov 11, 1992 3:53 PM
. U in a vase to make you smile?)
#77124From: Christopher TolmieNov 11, 1992 4:52 PM
" U in a vase to make you smile?)" ? that's the problem with these "continued with next message" feature. It doesn't show you the continuation. You have to check it yourself. BTW how many lines will it accept (autopilot) before it makes a continued message? Michael, The last connector on the cable is the second 50 pin centronics, which is the pass-thru. It doesn't need termination on it, the other two connectors are female headers and are clamped directly to the ribbon, there are no stub ribbons on the main ribbon. I'm using the exact cable design with two SCSI devices, one tape the other syquest. The Syquest is terminated and the pass-thru centronics is open. If you look in any expansion box from GVP or any other pre-assembled unit with pass-thru you'll find the exact same cable design. My CLtd external 5.25" full-height ST-506 Priam has the same ribbon setup and it is a single device that consumes the entire space of the same box as my duo setup and its pass-thru is the same design. Chris
#77128From: Steve AhlstromNov 11, 1992 5:25 PM
Chris, In the very near future the "problem" with multi-part messages will go away. CompuServe is dramatically increasing the size of messages. This new software is now live in the test forums (AmigaTech is one of the beta test forums). -sja
#77399From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 12, 1992 9:31 PM
Michael, Thanks, our messages always cross because I answer the next day and download before I get your answer to the night before <g>. It's just that I'm cheap and don't like to pay 50 cents a minute so only do one ru a day. My mount list is the same as yours (even to unit 4) and the file system is in L: I may change to ID for the tape drive as Erik sugested and see if that works The rose made me smile indeed! Gracia on AutoPilot flying blind! May Day!
#77171From: Erik FlomNov 11, 1992 8:50 PM
I may be wrong, but leaving a device on a SCSI bus with ID #0 is a no-no. Try setting the tape drive to something other than 0 (4 maybe?) Good luck. Erik Flom
#77236From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 12, 1992 1:34 AM
Erik, ID 0 is fine, as long as the host adapter isn't also set at ID 0. All that matters is that no two ID's are the same. Don
#77367From: Erik FlomNov 12, 1992 7:53 PM
Yeah, but isn't it more standard if the host adapter is set to #0? Or is it #7? Now that I engage the grey matter, I think it is? Oh well, to quote Gilda Radner . . . 'Never Mind.' Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#77452From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 13, 1992 12:31 AM
Erik, Well…up until I started playing with SCSI on the Amiga, every host adapter I'd every used came set at ID 0. These were on mini and supermini UNIX computers. However, since then, we've gotten in a supermini where the host adapter is set at 7, and most of the host adapters for the Amiga come set at ID 7. In all honesty, it really doesn't matter what the ID is until two or more devices want on the bus at once…when that occurs, the higher ID gets priority. Under those conditions, I can make an argument for the host adapter being at either ID 0 or ID 7 <grin>. I do believe tape drives should be at higher ID's though…that can avoid a fair amount of start-stop-rewind-start activity on a heavily loaded system. Don
#77775From: Erik FlomNov 15, 1992 2:43 PM
Thanks for the info. One of these days (real soon, I hope!), I'll have a tape drive, and thus will begin MY tale of woe . . . :^) Erik Flom
#77400From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 12, 1992 9:31 PM
I asked the guys at Moonlighter about that and they said it was OK, but I had second thoughts about it. I may ty a change. Now I'll have to get to Radio Shack and find those "Berg' clips <g>. See, I read everthing on this forum religously. Thanks Gracia on AutoPilot flying blind! May Day!
#76958From: Paul McCarthyNov 10, 1992 11:33 PM
Can I jump in here with some of my own troubles? I have the same drive and it worked fine for about six months and then just sort of faded away. It started by not reading certain discs. Sometimes booting with the disc in the drive would solve the problem but after awhile it would read fewer and fewer discs. At this point it won't read any discs, ROM or audio. The GVP software I use reports the drive as there but won't read a disc in the drive. One thing I noticed is that when a disc is inserted the drive light blinks a few times and then stays on steady. When the drive worked it would blink and then go out unless it was reading from the disc. Anybody have a clue as to what could cause this? Could the drive need cleaning? How do you clean one of these suckers anyway. The drive ran fine under both the CDROM-FS software and the Xetec software. -=> Paul McCarthy <=- on AutoPilot from New York City
#77004From: Michael GerardNov 11, 1992 2:17 AM
Sorry Paul.. not a clue.
#77033From: BILL LEACHNov 11, 1992 8:58 AM
Paul; It sure sounds like the drive is not reading the disc. Cleaning would be in order but not sure how you'd go about doing it. -bill
#77200From: John GagerNov 11, 1992 10:44 PM
Paul: If you insert a CD in the Toshiba drives and the light flashes about once every 2 seconds, it's telling you that the lens needs cleaning. If it stays on steady that means there is something wrong with the Laser itself. I would still go ahead and buy a good lens cleaning disc and see if that helps. John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#76798From: Michael GerardNov 9, 1992 10:01 PM
Unit #4: QUANTUM P105S 910-10-94x Rev:A.3 Unit #5: ARCHIVE VIPER 150 21247 Rev:-011 Unit #6: QUANTUM P80S 980-80-94xx Rev:A.2 Device version 37.19 — scsidisk 37.19 (10.5.91) If all else fails… send me an email and I'll reply with my phone #. I don't think you're more than a few minutes away from getting this thing up & running. <keeping fingers crossed… which is hard to do and type at the same time>
#76831From: John GagerNov 10, 1992 1:19 AM
Gracia, I've found that if SCSI_Lister doesn't recognize a drive is out there then there is nothing in the CDx software that will do you any good. Recheck your dip switch settings & cables. Make sure one of the dip switches wasn't left in the test mode. For a SCSI ID of 4, dip switch 4 (which is actually 3rd from the left) must be up (1). All other dip switches should be down (0). John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#76882From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 10, 1992 2:15 PM
John, I'm sure the dip switches are correct, BUT I'm going to take off the cover and work on it naked to make sure. Info says cd0: is there as "unreadable" disk, and it is not listed as mounted. Devs & user startup have all the correct info. I can't find anything for the tape drive. The tape drive is terminated and is my last in line in the box ie. cable from cpu SCSI to case's female 50 pin centronics connector, to CD ROM (ID #4)to tape drive w/terminator via ribbon cable (ID #0), to empty 50 pin female connector. The tape drive "slider" is about 1/2 inch to the right so I can't get tape in. As a good daughter of an engineer, I never force anything and it doesn't want to move easily. I'll call Moonlighter and see if all is well there. I think there is a book in the making if someone can explain in clear ENGLISH all the different protocals, cables, connectors, boards, and add all the caveats…what DOESN'T go with what, what you really need after you've spent x dollars on that GREAT new board, case, new computer!!!! I know it's out there somewhere, but it would be nice to find must of it in one place just as a reference when one goes to tackle a new hardware job. I learned a lot doing this, unfortunately at some expense and a lot of frustration, and it isn't over till the fat lady sings. Gracia
#76904From: Michael GerardNov 10, 1992 5:23 PM
Gracia: For the heck of it… unplug the scsi cable from the tape drive and plug the LAST connector on the cable in to the tape drive. The slider on the tape drive should push to the side… it takes a bit of a shove… but not so much that you feel like you are forcing it. It should slide to the left to eject a tape, and to the right to lock one in (and move the tape drive's head against the tape.).
#77011From: John GagerNov 11, 1992 2:36 AM
cover and work on it naked to make sure. Hehe, the thought of seeing you naked while you worked on your CD-Rom drive would be quite a sight Gracia <g>, but I know what you mean. One thing you might try is booting up your system with a CD-Rom installed in the drive. Sometimes the drive will not be recognized unless there is some time of readable media available, and that apply's to SyQuest drives as well. And as far as the book goes, I sure wouldn't want to write the series. And when I say series it would probably be the size of an Encyclopedia! John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#77187From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 11, 1992 9:44 PM
My studio is about 60 degrees, it wouldn't be a pretty sight <giggle>. I tried to boot with CD ROM in drive, nothing. When I say the drive is mounted, I mean everthing EXCEPT SCSI_lister and the WB screen seem to show it. When I run SCSI_Lister it shows only my harddrive as ID#6 so obviously something is not kosher. The cable was tested before it was sent and it does communicate with the cpu on some level…yes? The software did seem to reject "scsi.device" as a controller, but that's what is given when I click on Amiga 3000 in the list of controllers. Maybe there's a sceret to that, just like it being the only software I've ever used that demanded the original disk…without informing one in the manual. Gracia On AutoPilot and flying blind! Mayday!
#77208From: Michael GerardNov 11, 1992 11:04 PM
"When I say the drive is mounted, I mean everthing EXCEPT SCSI_lister and the WB screen seem to show it" Gracia… That means that the MOUNT command is being executed, NOT that the drive is actually being 'seen' on the scsi bus. Is the tape drive being recognized by scsi_lister? If not, unplug the ribbon cable from the CD-ROM Drive (leaving the tape drive connected) and see if you can get scsi_lister to see the drive. That _must_ be your first step, since that is the terminated last device on the bus. Someone else mentioned that scsi id# 0 might be the problem, so, just to be safe, why not change it to id#1.
#77403From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 12, 1992 9:31 PM
Well I'll certainly be an apprentice nerd after this..let's see that will be 2 yrs and then 7 yrs journeyman..<g>. My weekend is certainly cut out for me. Gracia on AutoPilot flying blind! May Day!
#77440From: Christopher TolmieNov 12, 1992 11:34 PM
when you get this finished your reward will be your very own pocket protector with gold gilt edged trim. B^). Oh yeah, plus 14 pens, each a different color ink! Chris
#77218From: John GagerNov 11, 1992 11:55 PM
Hmmm….well if it helps any, here is what CD_Install shows for my 3000 and Toshiba drive: . Device Name: CD0: . Unit: 1 . Stack: 6000 . Priority: 5 . . (Options Page on the right of the display) . . Auto Disc changes (selected) . Auto-Mount on Startup (selected) . CDTV Emulation (selected) . CDDA Click action: Built-in . . (Page 2 of options – Buffering) . . Standard Buffering: 30 . Read Ahead Buffering (selected): 30 . Memory type for each: Any . . (Page 3 of options – Mac options) . . Cache Disc Catalog (selected) . Max Memory: 100000 . Default Fork: Data . . (Bottom display of CD_Install) . . CD-Rom Drive: Toshiba XM-3201B . SCSI Controller: Amiga 3000 . SCSI Device Name: scsi.device . SCSI Direct Flags: 0 . Data Read Method: SCSI Direct (EXT) . SCSI ID: 4 . Addr Mask: FFFFFFFE . MaxTransfer: 001FFFFF And that's it! Like I said though, if SCSI_Lister is not showing the Toshiba then CDx_Install won't do much either. Just for the heck of it Gracia, you might try setting your SCSI ID dip switches on your Toshiba to try different ID's, and run SCSI_Lister each time after you change it. A friend of mine who had a GVP controller could only make the the SCSI_Lister program recognize the drive when it was set for SCSI ID 4, but actually you should be able to use any ID that is not already being used by something else. Maybe your Toshiba only likes being set to 1 particular SCSI ID itself. John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#77401From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 12, 1992 9:31 PM
Mine are pretty much the same. But when I go to save I get " warning: cannot find device called SCSI.device". I have a standard 3000 with no extra boards. Of course there is no scsi.device in devs, but the mountlist file for the CDx CD ROM says "device = scsi.device/0/0/4/1/20018/1/4/2710" so something gets found when I tell it to go ahead any way. I shall pull the dumb case apart and start a systematic search for scsi Nirvana. Thanks for help. Gracia on AutoPilot flying blind! May Day!
#77445From: Michael GerardNov 12, 1992 11:36 PM
are you sure it says "can not find device called SCSI.device" and not "can not find device called scsi.device"? I think that the device driver name is case sensitive. Can you change it to all lower case and see if that makes a difference?
#77535From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 13, 1992 9:06 PM
It says "scsi.device"…Just lost my head and wrote SCSI here on forum. I did read docs and knew it was case sensitive. In any case it can't find the scsi.device <;^}>, but if I go charging ahead and say do it anyway it does install software. Gracia ON AutoPillot flying blind! May Day!
#77561From: Michael GerardNov 13, 1992 10:38 PM
I've got to hink about this one for awhile. There's no reason I can think of for the s/w to tell you that it can't find scsi.device on an A3000. hmmmph & puzzled.
#77601From: Christopher TolmieNov 14, 1992 9:42 AM
Michael, scsi.device is in the 2.04 ROM, isn't it? I've searched my WB2.04 disk set and cannot find it anywhere! So it must be in ROM? By any chance do you have it in your DEVS: directory? Baffled, Chris
#77458From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 13, 1992 12:48 AM
Gracia, When "speaking" device names, the Amiga is case sensitive. SCSI.device is not the same to the Amiga as scsi.device. In the case of the 3000, it's got to be in all lower case: scsi.device Don
#77536From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 13, 1992 9:06 PM
Don, I knew that <;^}>. Just about the only thing I know at this moment. I'm going to play with cables, terminators and software over weekend and see what I can come up with. that is if I can find shorting clips to use on tape drive and/or external terminator for case. I just love living in the boonies grrrrr. Gracia On AutoPilot flying blind! May Day!
#77312From: Christopher TolmieNov 12, 1992 3:17 PM
Gracia, It sounds like its time to concentrate on getting one of the new devices working at a time. Then we can move to step two, getting both on the bus together. Let's work on the tape drive, first. Disconnect the connector from the CDROM and be sure that the tape is terminated. I wish I had another external termination plug lying around, I'd send it down to you. It makes it easy to add/remove termination during the experiment/magic act/voodoo/seance. Chris
#77402From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 12, 1992 9:31 PM
Hi Chris, Your right, I must get my act together and start my voodoo act <g> with the drives. Where would I get an external ternination plug? Mail order? I have to go to Radio Shack for "berg" clips to change the tape ID#'s. I might as well go for broke and use one anyway since I have the extra connector. Gracia on AutoPilot flying blind! May Day!
#77434From: Betty Clay/SYSOPNov 12, 1992 11:21 PM
Gracia, Most places that sell Mac peripherals would stock SCSI external terminators. I found a little cable shop that sold them for $8.50, but my Amiga dealer had them for $10.50, too. Betty
#77534From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 13, 1992 9:06 PM
Thanks Betty, I hope this thread is providing a few laughs…since I see so many hopping in to help I know I'm being read, quel embrarrassment <just kidding>. But then I learned from other's frustrated crys for help. Gracia On AutoPilot flying blind! May Day!
#77580From: Betty Clay/SYSOPNov 14, 1992 12:33 AM
Just about everyone on here needs a little help now and then. We all know SOME things pretty well, but the Amiga is too complicated (and changes too fast) for any of us to know it completely – and that isn't even counting all the peripherals we have to learn (and learn to hook up.) Betty
#77437From: Christopher TolmieNov 12, 1992 11:34 PM
Gracia, I believe I found mine in a MACwarehouse catalog…checking Yeah, that's where I found it, Terminator Centronics 50Male/50Female Order #ACC 0601 $21.00 1-800-255-6227. It does make things easier when your connecting things and disconnecting, while waving the crow feather and chanting. Chris
#77533From: Gracia M. LittauerNov 13, 1992 9:06 PM
I thought I needed the blood of a bat on a full moon!!! I have a black cat, does that count. Gracia On AutoPilot flying blind! May Day!