CompuServe Thread

Since I'm still waiting for 3DS R4, I'll use R3 for my comparison. To be fair, I'll compare it to Lightwave 3.5 (4.0 will be competing with R4). As far as I know, 3DS R4 only adds features without changing the interface. Lightwave 4.0 will probably have minor interface changes to conform with the operating system it is being used on. Being the human that I am, I could make some mistakes, so keep that in mind. Also, this is just my opinion. If anyone has any other opinions, I'd love to here them. Anyway, here it goes. Both programs follow the typical modular format. 3DS has 5 sections; Shaper, Lofter, Editor, Keyframer, and Materials Editor. Lightwave has two; Modeler and Layout. 3DS's interface, with the exception of the Materials Editor, consists of a bar across the top with several pull down menus. These access general functions such as loading, saving, adjusting parameters, and changing modules. A column goes down the right side which contains the features specific to the module. In the uppermost section of this column is the main menu. Each time you access a submenu, it is placed below the entire main menu. This is a minor irritation to me. I would prefer the submenu open directly below the button I just clicked. The bottom right has tools used to manipulate the views. These are more versatile and intuitive than Lightwave's. The views are divided up into four sections; each can be assigned a different POV (such as camera, light, front, left, or user) Across the bottom is a message bar which acts as an online help as well as showing the status of certain operations. Some portions of the interface are tedious. The program presents the "are you sure you want to do that? Y/N" question way too often. If I click on a viewport to render I am pretty sure I want that viewport to render. Thankfully, there are not too many of these types of "bothers". Overall the setup is well thought out and extremely versatile. Lightwave's interface is similar to 3DS's. Modeler and Layout have different interfaces. Modeler consists of a bar across the top which contains the main menus (Objects, Modify, Multiply, Tools, and Display), as well as the "layer" buttons. These are used to modify several sections of the model or several models individually without having to manually select polygons (an excellent feature). When a menu button is pressed, the submenu opens in the left side column, as opposed to "pulling down". Keep in mind that these are not program-specific buttons, they are module-specific (the menu on the right hand side of 3DS is it's counterpart). Nearly every button provides a numeric input which is easily accessible as well as the standard mouse input. One nice feature is the ability to approximate your input with the mouse, click undo, and then numeric. The numeric display shows the mouse inputs you just entered. Then you can polish them. This provides a high degree of precision without having to think of the exact coordinates in your mind. The bottom left contains two small boxes. One shows the coordinates in 3D space of the mouse pointer. The other displays the grid size. The bottom left contains the selection tools (point, polygon, and volume). as well as a box which displays the number of selected points or polygons. The bottom right contains the much used Cut, Copy, Paste, and Undo buttons. Like 3DS, modeler uses 4 selectable views. One irritation is the lack of precision the mouse affords. However this is due to the Amiga's low resolution screen. This will be remedied in the PC release. Lightwave adheres better to unit systems (meters, feet, etc.) than 3DS. Every numeric input box shows the unit next to it. Also, the units are dynamic. When you have a large grid, instead of showing 10000 meters, it says 10 kilometers. This makes it much easier to create life size models. Modeler does a good job of having a large number of options onscreen without being overbearing. IMO Modeler contains no substantial interface deficiencies. Layout's interface is a bit different than Modelers. Instead of four views, there is only one. This presents a tradeoff. The view is larger and more detailed, but contains less information. I personally prefer a four view screen running at 1600×1280 on a 21 inch monitor, but this is impossible on an Amiga. I wouldn't be surprised if a four view mode was incorporated into the PC release. A string of menus (Scene, Objects, Surfaces, Images, Lights, Camera, Effects, Record, Options, and ScreamerNet) run across the top. These menus contain an unique mixture of sub-screens, pulldown menus, sliders, and numeric input fields. These are very intuitive and well thought out. A column on the left side contains the buttons used for manipulating the "movables". Also in this column are several often used buttons (motion graph, preview, render, numeric input, etc.). The bottom contains Information regarding selected items and keyframes. This is also where the provisions for manipulating key frames and creating hierarchies are. The bottom right contains two black boxes. One displays the grid size. The other switches between the rotation and position of the selected object. Layout's interface is less versatile than 3DS's equivalent module (Keyframer). However it is more intuitive and it takes less time to navigate. Layout is massive. The first time I used it it was a bit overwhelming, but within minutes I had it figured out. Newtek did a fantastic job of organizing a huge amount of information in an intuitive way. Which interface is better? IMO Lightwave barely nudges 3DS out. However, it is so close that many people would say the reverse. It comes down to personal preference. Now on to modeling. Both programs offer adequate modelers, although neither is the ultimate. 3DS excels in creating basic forms of objects, but falls flat on its face in creating organic objects and manipulating already created objects. The three modules that are involved in the modeling process are Shaper, Lofter, and Editor. In Shaper, you create 2D shapes, using bezier splines. These can be open or closed and are very easy to create. After they are initially created, you can do the standard scale, rotate, move, etc. to them as well as more powerful manipulations such as booleon. Shapes created here can be used in lofter to created 3D objects, or in Keyframer to be used as animation paths. Lofter is where 3D objects are made. It does it's job well. Generally you import a selected shape from Shaper to be used as a template. You either extrude or loft this shape. The tools for doing these are very powerful. For instance, you can extrude a shape and vary its thickness along the length of the extrude. This would be useful for making an object such as an accordian. The versatility of extruding and lofting is excellent. However, the best feature of the Lofter is fit to shape. Unfortunately, I'm not quite sure how to describe it and I don't have the manual in front of me. Basically it lets you create complex objects easily. A tutorial included with 3DS shows how to make a hammer head with very little effort. Creating a hammer head in Lightwave would be very difficult. Lofter, because of its complexity, takes some effort to learn. One feature that drives me nuts is bevel. Beveling text is a nightmare. If an object has any inset angles bevel rejects them. For all intents and purposes, 3DS's bevel is useless. This annoyance aside, Lofter is excellent. Editor contains features for manipulating objects created in the Lofter as well as provisions for creating standard primitives. The tool set for manipulating objects is weak. It consists of the standard 2D and 3D scale, rotate, etc. The only powerful feature is boolean, which is common these days. The boolean sometimes doesn't work the way you'd like but it is acceptable. Thankfully IPAS routines are available to further manipulate objects. However, because of the nature of IPAS, they aren't always as versatile as they could be. Other IPAS modules are available which model from the ground up, most notably metaballs. Lightwave takes a different approach to modeling than 3DS. Unlike 3DS, Lightwave can use polygons with any number of sides. This improves it's versatility throughout the program, but causes some problems. If a polygon isn't planar it will cause rendering errors. Also, things go crazy when you use bones or displacement mapping on non-triangle polygons. Thankfully it is easy to correct these problems. Having the ability to use multi-sided polygons has its advantages. Using large, multi-sided polygons improves rendering speed. In addition, Lightwave can use true particles. This comes in handy when you want to make a star field you can fly through without little triangle-shaped stars zooming by. Other applications for one and two point polygons are lasers, explosions, fields of grass, fur, etc.. Whoa, I'm digressing. Anyway, when modeling you have to keep this in mind.

Continued from previous message- 2 of 3 Lightwave has the ability to create primitives, as well as 2D shapes. Like 3DS you can extrude and lathe these shapes, but with less versatility. Lightwave also has the ability to model with spline patches. However, using Lightwave's spline patches isn't easy, or versatile. In fact, it is almost as useless as 3DS's bevel. Actually, some would disagree. Seaquest was supposedly modeled with Lightwave's spline patches. Modeler's real strength is in its ability to manipulate points and polygons. This is accomplished two ways, by simply dragging them around, or using some of the many powerful tools intended for this. These tools include shear, twist, multiple forms of taper, magnet, vortex, multiple forms of pole, beveling that works, patch, skin, morph, multiple types of cloning, jitter, boolean, etc. These are useful and very easy to use. With magnet, you can select an area of an object and tug on it just like a real magnet. Jitter randomizes points within an object. This is very usefull for making rock forms such as astroids and cliffs. Modeler also has excellent drilling tools. These are used to punch holes in objects, using either 2D or 3D objects as templates. What seperates these from boolean is that they don't need to intersect the object being drilled. It is great for doing things like making holes in walls where doors will go. But by far the best feature of modeler is metaform. Metaform is a type of subdividing. Primitives are used to create smoothly curved objects. This is useful for making very complex organic objects. I modeled a very complex chandalier in just a few hours. Metaform isn't particularly accurate and sometimes the polygon count gets way out of hand, but those are my only complaints. Modeler also has a powerful macro implementation. Using Arexx, you can program macros do do almost anything ranging from centering an object to creating router bits for beveling. Macros aren't as versatile as IPAS modules, but you can easily create them yourself. Newtek includes a ton of them with the program. Modeler is rough around the edges in some spots. It is difficult to accurately model some types of complex non-organic objects. There are also more things to worry about (like non planar polygons, polygon alignment, stray points, etc.) than 3DS. A winner can't really be declared in modeling. Each one has its strengths and weaknesses. I often model the basic shape of an object in 3DS and import it into Lightwave for refinement. Since Autodesk pulled spline patch modeling out of R4, Lightwave 4.0 will likely take the lead in modeling. Both programs have similar animation systems. 3DS uses the Keyframer for all animation. Motion can be created using either keyframing or importing a spline path from the Shaper. A slider along the bottom of the screen is used to cycle through the frames. There are also VCR-type controls on the bottom right. Creating a keyframe is as simple as moving the the frame you want and moving, or rotating the object to the desired position. There is no need to set the keyframe. This is sometimes a problem because if you move something and want to move it back you have to go into the tracks submenu and delete the keyframe. This can be annoying. 3DS has excellent hierarchy creation tools. You can assign objects to copy every motion of their parent, or just certain types (ie rotation, position, scale, or squash). The tracks submenu is another excellent feature. It allows you to easily move, copy, or delete keyframes. The keys submenu allows you to change the continuity, bias, tension, ease in, and ease out, for each keyframe. Each type of motion (ie. position) can be independantly adjusted. However, the graphic representation of motion shows only the current frame, and it is not very easy to understand just what it is doing. Ipas modules are available to do special types of animation (such as particle animation, manta wave, and melt). 3DS also provides the standard morphing features. Cameras (3DS can use multiple cameras, Lightwave can only use one) are controlled by moving the actual camera and the camera's target. to move the camera you select the actual camera and move it, to rotate where it is viewing, you move the target. There are no provisions for changing the heading and pitch using degrees. Spotlights function the same way. Lightwave is similar to 3DS in motion creation. Lightwave also uses keyframing and spline paths. A timeline is moved to the desired frame, the object is positioned and then the keyframe is set. By manually setting the keyframe you avoid having to take the time to delete the frame if you don't like it, but it is easy to forget that to set it, change the current frame, and lose your keyframe setting. Lightwave has similar hierarchy controls as 3DS, but lacks the ability to lock only certain types of movement. The scene menu and motion control graph offer similar features as the tracks submenu in 3DS. In the motion graph tension, bias, and continuity can be changed. Lightwave has no ease-in or ease-out features, but because of how tension is set, they are not necessary. The advantage Lightwave has in this area is that all keyframes are shown at once. They are linked by visual splines. This is a superior method to 3DS's keys submenu because it lets you see the whole picture. Lightwave has similar morphing features to 3DS. Cameras and lights are rotated using heading, pitch, and bank. This generally provides greater accuracy. You can also assign targets which function identically to 3DS's. Lightwave has two very unique animation capabilities. One is bones. Bones are used to organically deform objects. They are set as children to the parent object. The most obvious use is in character animation(ie a walking cow). They are sometimes unpredictable, but if used right are very powerful. The other feature is displacement mapping. Displacement mapping moves polygons within an object similarly to texture mapping. In my opinion this is one of the best features available on a desktop 3D program. It can be used for a large number of applications, such as creating water that laps up and down on the side of a boat, a realistic waving flag, grass blowing in a breeze, embossed images, procedural craters on an asteroid, or even blowing apart a brick wall. The quality of the displacement mapped objects is stunning. The procedurallly created water is truly photorealistic. All of these are impossible with 3DS. Also many more things can be animated in Lightwave than 3DS. These include fog, dithering, saturation, and textures. Third party animation enhancements are also available. Advantage……………….Lightwave. Even though 3DS has slighty more versatility with hierarchies and motion smoothing, I still find it easier to create the motion I want in Lightwave. It has a very unique "feel" to it that is unexplainable. Plus with all of the other features it gives Lightwave the definite advantage. Even with the stack of IPAS modules that I have, I still like Lightwaves animation capabilities more. Lighting is where some of the greatest differences between the two programs exist. 3DS has two types of lights; spot and omni. Omni lights shine in all directions. They can assigned a color, strength, and fall off. Spot lights are more versatile. Spotlights can cast shadows. They can be either circular or rectangular. The biggest advantage 3DS's spotlights have is that they can project an image. This is very useful for faking effects such as light shining through a stain glass window, or faking shadows. They render very fast and do a good job. Both types of lights can exclude specified objects. Lightwave has three types of lights; distant, point, and spotlight. All three types can cast shadows. Point lights are very similar to 3DS's omni lights. Distant lights act as a light infinitely far from the scene. They are primarily used to simulate the sun's light (this is impossible to do accurately in 3DS). Lightwave's spotlights are similar to 3DS's except they cannot exclude specified objects, project an image, or cast a rectangular light. 3DS wins the lighting catagory. The versatility they offer is much greater than Lightwaves lights. The image projection is a fantastic feature. It can be duplicated by Lightwave, but it is difficult and time consuming. Texture mapping is considerably different between the two programs. 3DS creates the textures in the Material Editor, and applies them in the Editor. It has the standard parameters for creating the textures(ie transparency, diffusion, specularity, bump…). It also has some unique parameters such as blur reflection. Reflections can be created without raytracing which speeds up rendering considerably. However, their quality is considerably worse than ray traced reflections. All parameters can be controlled with alpha channel maps. Textures can be applied using planar, cylindrical, spherical, and cubic methods. They are assigned within the Editor. The method it uses to assign textures is tedious, especially on complex objects. Mapping coordinates can be applied to objects created in the Lofter. Smoothing groups are also clumsy. The Materials Editor is much nicer looking then Lightwave's surface menu. It renders samples of the texture at the top of the screen. This is a big plus. Procedural textures are available via IPAS, but IMO most are not very good.

continued from previous message- part 3 of 3 Lightwave applies textures to specific polygons(or objects) assigned in modeler. This process is very versatile and easy. Textures are created in the Surface menu within Layout. It contains similar parameters to 3DS. Surfaces are applied using planar, cylindrical, spherical, cubic, and front projection (more on this later) mapping. Lightwave's surfacing strengths lie in its vast options. There are two transparancy channels (one via luminosity/additive parameter). This is very useful for creating things such as clouds. Textures can have falloff and velocity. Falloff is from a defined point in 3D space. Velocity moves the texture along any combination of axis. This is one of Lightwave's best features. It enables any texture, procedural or not, to travel in any direction on the object. This is useful for animating objects such as LED signs, realistic rolling clouds, etc. Also Lightwave includes a large number of very high quality procederal textures. These include checkerboard, grid, dots, marble, wood, underwater, good fractal noise, bump array, crust, ripples, fractal bumps, etc.. All of these are very useful. Fractal noise does an excellent job of dirtying up an object. Bump array can be used to simulate boiling liquid. Grid can be used to create a dynamic gradient that changes with lighting. Marble can be used to create lightning. With a little creativity the included procedural textures can be used to create a dazzling array of realistic textures. Front projection mapping is an excellent tool for compositing. It projects an image or image sequence on an object. No matter where the object moves, the sequence stays on it, and doesn't wrap around the object. I used this once to create an animation of a star destroyer flying down a street outside my office window. It weaved in front of and behind buildings while casting and receiving shadows from the buildings. Robocop uses this feature in almost every episode. Lightwave has far superior surfacing than 3DS. The versatility and quality is a large step ahead. I have a big pile of IPAS routines with procedural textures. All of them combined can't match what's included in Lightwave. The PC release will have plug in procedural textures. This will definately widen the gap. The biggest advantage Lightwave has over 3DS is its output quality. Lightwave is more dynamic and "3D" looking. Plus it raytraces very well. Lightwave is fantastic at creating truly photorealistic images. Every feature in Lightwave has better quality than its counterpart in 3DS. This is especially evident in features like fog. Lightwave's fog looks like real fog, and it is awesome at creating underwater scenes(ala Sequest). Lens flares and glows can't even be compared. 3DS's make me laugh every time I see them(which is way too often). I have never had an client come to me with an animation I couldn't do. Lightwave contains many features which offer hidden possibilities such as creating lightning with the marble texture. The new version will contain all the features which made 3DS so popular (IPAS) and more. 3DS is an excellent program though. If they included more features, upped the quality, and added raytracing it could be a better program than Lightwave. It has tremendous rendering speed. I use it for every quick and dirty flying logo that comes my way. In the end though, Lightwave is just a better package. At a quarter of the price it is the best value of any 3D animation program I know of. I don't see how anyone could go wrong with it. I hope this helps you in your decision. Chad Liddell PCAD*

>>Just wondering if you ever posted this comparison Yes, reset your message date to this past Monday morning; it shouldn't have scrolled of already.