CompuServe Thread

#4000 in Byte

62 messages in this thread
#82276From: Steve SetzerDec 22, 1992 4:34 PM
Has anyone read the blurp in this months Byte on the Amiga 4000? It seems kind of condescending to me…he (Tom Yager) states the 256 color modes are "slow"! Actualy what he says is " And even though display performance for the 256-color modes `continues' to be slow" Am I missing something here, when and where did Amigas have a 256 color mode before the 4000? He also implies the 3000T-040/200 and the 4000-040/120 are basiclly the same machine with the 3000T having a few more slots. He also refers to ADOS 2.1 and Workbench 3.0 as the operating system for both machines. Does the 3000T-040 require new boot roms? No where is anything said about the new HAM-8 modes or anything other than the 256 color, nothing about overscan or screen resolutions. He goes to great lengths to deride C='s policy of not allowing users to open the case without voiding the warranty. Generaly it is an upbeat article but full of false and misleading enuendos. I guess I am somwhat happy that they mentioned it at all. …Steve On AutoPilot! (at last)
#82295From: Greg SeelyDec 22, 1992 8:47 PM
The fact that MS_DOS is the "standard" and the Amiga is considerd a game machine or only useful for video work. just proves the old maxam. No one ever went brook under estamating the intellagence of the public. "or the spelling ability of a computer programmer."
#82302From: Black Belt SystemsDec 22, 1992 9:22 PM
It's typical Byte – incompetant, incomplete, and misleading. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#82373From: john bennettDec 23, 1992 6:46 AM
It's a shame Byte always does early, mostly poor reviews of Amiga h/w but rarely (never?) serious in depth reviews…:^( They FORSE us Amigoids to be LOUD and OBNOXIOUS. Lifes rough going against the mainstream, but I wouldnt have it any other way…… Are all Amiga users Unconventional ? I always have been, BAD!!!!!
#82388From: Jonathan HirschmanDec 23, 1992 9:37 AM
John (and other Byte readers); I know what I am going to do…I am going to write a very long letter to Byte, screaming at them for what (if anything) I consider to be either unfair or simply wrong. I believe that if they get enough static, especially from the nets, they are liable to correct the situation. The last real Amiga article in Byte was the 3000 review, which was quite favorable. They also ran a short article on the Amiga operating system, which was also pretty favorable. ALthough there is not enough coverage for the Amiga, it has not always been damaging. Jonathan
#82432From: Betty Clay/SYSOPDec 23, 1992 7:37 PM
Jonathan, I don't think screaming letters to BYTE will be helpful at all. I think fairly short, factual, and extremely polite letters would be good. These letters should point out (very tactfully) any errors you saw in the article. Amiga owners have gained a very bad reputation with magazines because of the 'screaming' letters that pour forth every time they publish anything about our machine. I hope you will write your letter, but that you will make it business-like, factual, and polite. There are quite a few people at BYTE who really like the Amiga. A few have worked for Amiga magazines in the past and really know the machine thoroughly. I doubt that it is easy for them to get articles printed, though, if Amiga users are too critical every time they do an article on the Amiga. —Betty
#82452From: dan barberDec 23, 1992 9:58 PM
I would like to second what Betty has stated concerning the comments sent to magazines. I feel that in order to gain acceptance in the computer industry, we shouldn't gripe and moan about coverage (or lack there of) in the media. Instead, we should comment on mistakes made by the author and supply the correct information. Personally, I feel that the Amiga and, more importantly, the Amiga community, has many underlying strengths that the "outsiders" cannot hope to attain. Although the Amiga is not the forefront of technology today, its total package (graphics, sound, multitasking, windowing…etc) has provided the rest of the industry a model to "shoot" for. Many of my friends with PCs and Macs are just now integrating sound, graphics and windowing to their home computers. While they are muddling over their new boards they painfully installed, I am looking to the Amiga community to lead the next stage of system innovations. Can we think of the Amiga and its strong technical supporters as a mainstream, low cost R&D community that drives innovation? Well, I'm getting on my soapbox, but let me leave you with this: As the Amiga community continues to drive innovations in our industry, we need to apply thoughtful, professional commentary on what we are doing, so that we can be viewed from the outside as intelligent, "master craftsmen" of the computer industry. Dan Barber Happy Holidays!!
#82474From: Christopher LapriseDec 24, 1992 2:31 AM
Betty, Byte needs all the feedback an criticism that we can possibly deliver when it comes to the Amiga.. no-holds-barred. Level-headedness is certainly called for, but certainly not politeness. -Chris
#82540From: Erik FlomDec 24, 1992 3:07 PM
The only problem, is that you treat Byte like garbage, you can expect your letter to be treated the same way. To quote an old saying: 'You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.' Thanks, Erik Flom
#82720From: Marlene Zenker/SYSOPDec 26, 1992 3:15 PM
. Reminds be of one of my favorite lines from the show Cheers. One of the regulars said just that line, and Woody replied, "Excuse me, but you can catch the MOST flies with a dead squirrel". 🙂 Steve
#82592From: Betty Clay/SYSOPDec 24, 1992 10:23 PM
Chris, Criticism can be delivered politely. And should be. We never gain anything by being rude. —Betty
#82694From: Clint Woeltjen@VRLIDec 26, 1992 1:11 AM
Betty: You are absolutely right!!! Clint <VRLI>
#82864From: Christopher LapriseDec 27, 1992 7:32 PM
I think, in this case, if politeness is anybody's concern then it's Byte's (of course, I would not suggest Commodore itself treat them rudely). I also think that in this climate that it would be relatively easy for another network to take away BIX's Amiga following. CIS might be able to do that, but as indifferent as CIS is to the Amiga, that would not be such a just transfer of loyalty; Portal would be the ideal network to do this. -Chris
#82901From: Tom JonesDec 28, 1992 12:50 AM
It is not good politics to insult someone you want to do something for you or see things your way, so to me it does make sense to be gentle when pointing out that someone at Byte didn't do his homework when writing his article on the new Amigas. Sure, he was lazy in getting the facts right and all that, but it is easy to turn defensiveness about doing what he may already know was an unproffessional rushed job into outright dislike for the Amiga or the Amiga users. It must be extremely easy to cover your mistakes by adopting a "stupid game machine won't survive the year anyway" type attitude when you work for a rabidly pro-MsDos magazine like Byte. How many Amiga users subscribe to Byte? Would it be wrong to assume that any article on any other platform is designed to reassure the MSDOS reader that he made the right decision by buying from their advertisers and that all those nasty rumors of game machines stealing their thunder are false? Looked at another way: when did a pro-amiga magazine last do an unbiased review of the latest MsDos or Apple platform? I don't remember even one.
#82930From: Marlene Zenker/SYSOPDec 28, 1992 10:57 AM
The people in the ASOFT forum are a little ticked off about Yager's review of 3D Studio too. Steve
#82965From: Lou WallaceDec 28, 1992 7:42 PM
I haven't read the article in Byte (didn't need to since I have an A4000 at the office anyway ;), but I know Tom is NOT anti-Amiga. He has one, uses it and likes it. He also has a Mac and PC, uses them and likes them. Evidently he found the A4000 256 color mode to be slower then he expected. He mentioned on BIX that it might have been a defective Amiga, but maybe not. Who knows. We might not agree with his opinion, but I know he didn't write that in order to appease anyone at Byte, their MSDOS readers, etc. Lou BTW – if people want to respond to Byte, the best way would be to *show* them they are wrong. If someone with a 486 or Mac and the A4000 would run some sort of graphic benchmarks, including animation frame rates, that can be reproduced by them I would bet they would pay attention….
#83496From: Joanne DowJan 2, 1993 3:42 AM
A4000 in 256 color mode is a bleeding dog just like any Amiga before it in high-res-laced 16 color mode. So who runs workbenches in 8 bitplane modes? Whyinheck would someone want THAT many colors? 16 colors is plenty and the A4000 is reasonably zippy there. And for graphics animation the 8 bitplane modes are quite as fast as any PClone card I have seen. (But then I have not seen the REAL fast ones….) {@_@}
#83590From: Black Belt SystemsJan 2, 1993 6:42 PM
Board Master, which uses a 16-color, high-res interlace display, can update the every pixel on the entire display with literally thousands of CAD objects on my 2500/030 (old chips, old 16-bit bus) literally faster than you can see it happen. On the 4000, it's like lightning. This a a rewrite of pixels, recalculated and redrawn from lists of objects in fast memory, not a bitmap update by block. This condition is highly bottlenecked or "a bleeding dog" as you put it. Updating 8 bitplanes instead of four is only twice the work; and you've got considerably more than twice the horsepower to do it with, and ALSO twice the buswidth to do it *through*. Predictably, on the 4000, Board Master updates the display so fast it's shocking. I submit this is proof that the access to the display isn't the exact source of the bottlenecking that we see. Further it is proof that the botteneck can be avoided with the right approach. Pointing at Board Master again (which I wrote) as evidence, I'll tell you that I believe I have a very good understanding of why some display uses are slow and some are not, and having (hopefully) inspired some confidence in my opinion, here are the problems: 1 – The forced use of bitplanes instead of byteplanes. That has killed most apps abilities to be efficient in data handling. pixels take 8 times the accesses to write that they would in a chunky architecture. Solution: The amiga needs a hardware corner-turner, and badly. We have one on the shelf; the performance increase is astounding in my 2500/030. 2 – The lack of intelligent queing of drawing operations. Since the display memory is not, in fact, accessable a great deal of the time under heavy load, one should NEVER try to write bulk data to it during those times, or you WILL hang like wet laundry. Drawing operations need to be done to fast memory, and then the fast memory needs to go in during the open windows – and at NO other time. Drawing software needs to stop trying <continued>
#83664From: Joanne DowJan 3, 1993 10:31 AM
Run up an 8 bitplane workbench and let it scroll. It is, I repeat, a bleeding dog. That is the simplest test to make. When you run up enough bitplanes in non-interlaced modes that you have used the entire memory bandwidth in fast ram things turn very slow very fast. They always have. Reduce things even a little so that you get some of the CHIP ram access back and things pick up speed quite nicely. Do your calculations for vectors outside of CHIP ram and simply draw lines and I expect things to be quite fast. I still expect floodfills that alter several bitplanes of an 8 bitplane hi-res-laced screen to be slower than on a 6 bitplane lo-res screen for example, much slower. {@_@}
#83714From: Black Belt SystemsJan 3, 1993 5:12 PM
Either you didn't read my message, or you didn't understand it. While I wouldn't argue that your test is simple, it surely is, it's not definitive. The issue is how fast CAN that display be driven – and the answer is, a lot faster than it is being driven by the system, and looking at Board Master proves the point. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#83591From: Black Belt SystemsJan 2, 1993 6:42 PM
to draw and go back to building draw data in fastram BEFORE the chipmem bottneck re-closes. If anyone has any doubts, just look at how fast Board Master is. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#82693From: David HammDec 26, 1992 12:18 AM
Jonathon, Forghe letter writing campaign… "Correct the situation"(??) I think NOT! Byte receives no revenues from Amiga vendors, and owes no commitment to CBM. The magazine reaks of IBM compatibles and a few MAC's for good humour. I'm with Ben and his response… I wouldn't waste my time writing a letter crying about their Amiga article. That's why the ONLY Byte issue that I've bought was the one with the Amiga 3000 on the cover. And that was just for posterity!! I don't ever expect to waste my money on another issue, and again… I wouldn't waste my time writing them either. – Dave
#82869From: Christopher LapriseDec 27, 1992 8:19 PM
I think there is at least one type of action that could correct the situation (and I'm not talking letter or editorial writing.. that would be a waste as they are not journalists in the true sense). I am talking about hurting their pocketbook, and perhaps the only way for us to do that is through BIX. -Chris
#82878From: John Toebes/SYSOPDec 27, 1992 9:31 PM
The last time that I checked, BIX and BYTE were two separate entities. The logon banner for it says something different. I thought that this happened about a year ago – Joanne Dow could provide more information on this.
#83497From: Joanne DowJan 2, 1993 3:42 AM
BIX was sold to General Videotex Corporation early last year. BYTE still maintains a strong presence there inspite of their being entirely different business entities without even a shared parent corporation. The relationship IS close enough I get to hear the flack when idiots from users groups in South Eastern Arizona accuse Jerry and BYTE of writing about the A3000 *ONLY* because Commodore started advertising in BYTE. This so infuriated Jerry that he very nearly packed up his A3000 and shipped it back to Commodore with a "never again" note. *I* had to try to calm things down. I never did hear back from that cretin in Az. But I do know the precise circumstances behind Jerry's "review" of the A3000. David Joiner with a little help from me arranged the whole thing with Commodore marketing. Jerry was VERY impressed by the way the machine operated when we installed it and ran it through its paces as described in his article. What he failed to describe was his cheerful frustration that it did NOT crash the way the old Amigas had. He noted that the A3000 appeared to have less equipment configuration and compatability problems than either his PClones or his Macs. We'd hook a CDROM or a tape drive to the Amiga and go. That did impress him. So he wrote about it. Then some idiot accuses him of being on the take that way. He *AND* BYTE magazine went through the roof. It took written apologies from David Archambault for Commodore as well as any efforts I made to calm things down. So the relationship is that close that I hear the problems. But my check comes not from BYTE or McGraw-Hill but from General Videotex Corporation. Hope this clears things a little about the relationship. "Friends but not relations." {@_@}
#83561From: SyndesisJan 2, 1993 4:41 PM
To be up-front, I've never been much of a fan of Pournelle's Byte columns. I've always been thankful, though, that there are people like you and Joiner working behind the scenes to get his Amiga computers working. Now to hear that Pournelle was ready to stop looking at Amiga products because some whiner on BIX made the "outlandish" suggestion that there was a cause-and-effect relationship between advertising and editorial coverage… it sounds to me like Pournelle is looking for an excuse to finally free himself from the endless tirades of Amigaphiles. Or maybe this Arizona whiner hit too close to home. You're telling me it's *RANDOM CH^O rtn
#83589From: Black Belt SystemsJan 2, 1993 6:42 PM
Well said, John. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#83593From: Lou WallaceJan 2, 1993 6:59 PM
John, I've been working on a the staff of a professional magazine(s) for almost seven years now. In all that time I have never, ever, I repeat never had a publisher or advertising type try and force any opinion of any product. Don't get me wrong – if the ad guys had their way we wouldn't write about anything that wasn't advertized. But its exactly because they think like this that they have no control over the editorial process. As for placement of ads – there are 'premium' positions in a magazine that advertisers pay extra for. Covers 2-4 (the inside of the cover plus the back), as well as near certain columns or sections. But in general editors – managing editors that is – work very hard to make sure that no ads appear anywhere near any edit that discusses the products in the ads. It still happens sometimes – but by chance, not on purpose. For example, I just got in the first issue of DTV World. Much to my displeasure I found an ad near an article on the Toaster a mail order ad that specializes on Toaster products. My first action on seeing it was to show it to my managing editor and said I don't like this. He replied that it only happened because in the dummy (where the magazine is laid out on a positional grid that represents teh different folios of the magazine) he merely saw the words mail order ad – and didn't knwo it was Toaster specific. Lou
#83615From: SyndesisJan 2, 1993 10:34 PM
Sometimes, the advertising people give good placement without informing the buyer – I know one magazine gave the Syndesis ads very favorable placement without consulting us in any way.
#83690From: Lou WallaceJan 3, 1993 2:04 PM
A good ad rep always tries to do the best for his/her clients, but the placement might just have been luck of the draw…
#83645From: Brian Simmons/COJan 3, 1993 2:49 AM
>As for placement of ads – there are 'premium' positions in a magazine that >advertisers pay extra for. Covers 2-4 (the inside of the cover plus the >back), as well as near certain columns or sections. But in general editors >- managing editors that is – work very hard to make sure that no ads appear >anywhere near any edit that discusses the products in the ads. I dunno about this. In reviews of one or more products I seem to see this happen all the time in a whole variety of magazines. They don't seem to try vary hard. —–> Brian Simmons, Denver, Colorado. – via Whap!
#83653From: Lou WallaceJan 3, 1993 8:17 AM
I don't know about a whole variety of other magazines – just those I work on. That's the way we do it. Lou
#83737From: Mark SterlingJan 3, 1993 8:05 PM
Lou, You might not tolerate ads near columns that discuss the product but Byte D O E S ! I even like reading Byte, although Jerry is a really transparent sonofa&^%$#. I have had a sub since 1984 and have noticed this happening with regularity over the years. The Pioneer CD-ROM changer is a perfect example that I have noticed myself. I have not noticed it happening in AW although it might have escaped my notice AND been accidental. I don't think you can speak for publications you don't work with. I don't think we are all ready to condemn all mags as "payola pits" but sometimes it is too obvious and happens too often to ignore. Money talks (to many people out there). Goin' AP6 …..Mark Sterling6
#84523From: Tom YagerJan 10, 1993 4:15 AM
(continuation of earlier message) That might not translate to editorial equality, but that's not up to me; I just write the stuff. Last time I checked, my hat was still white. (ty)
#83661From: Joanne DowJan 3, 1993 10:31 AM
Jerry writes about what he finds useful and interesting around his place. His business is writing. Things that foster that get tried first. He is sent things in incredible bulk. (You really have no idea how much bulk.) It is to some extent random chance that he will talk about any product that crosses his threshold. (I hesitate to say desk as if that volume of "stuff" were deposited daily on his desk the poor piece of furniture would collapse.) If someone sends him something they think there is a good chance will be interesting enough to him to talk about they will often independantly take out an ad in BYTE. Pioneer already knew Jerry is into CDROMs as a convenient storage media. A changer is a logical extension of a single CDROM drive. They gambled, and won, that he'd talk about it. In fact he liked it so much he DID do a product endorsement for it. He accepts no compensation for the endorsement. He only endorses things he uses and particularly likes. I suspect there is an element of this timing gamble in Commodore's advertisement in BYTE. David Archambault knew when that A3000 was shipped to Jerry and may have made some guesses regarding article lead times. OTOH I understand from David Archambault that they had planned a rather agressive targeted advertising campaign about that time anyway so it may have been pure coincidence given article lead times etc etc. Making the accusation that he was directed to write about the Amiga and responded to such direction by the people who market ad space in BYTE is a direct insult to him and to BYTE magazine. BYTE is very heavily compartmentalized such that this DOES NOT HAPPEN. And if it is discovered that it IS happening the offending party is dropped forthwith. The writers and editors of BYTE find such accusations particularly loathsome because of the strictures they are operating under. I do not know what all magazines you have worked for. I do know BYTE since I was on their payroll <continued>
#83662From: Joanne DowJan 3, 1993 10:31 AM
for awhile. They are quite strict. I also know a large body of writers in the closed writers.pros conference on BIX who would take extreme umbrage with your "on the take" remark. Maybe this tells us something about your writing style more than theirs? {@_@}
#83679From: Michael GerardJan 3, 1993 11:38 AM
. <passing Joanne a grain of salt to take when reading messages here> John Foust, in addition to being incredibly helpful here online and in his work (both through Syndesis and in writing), is the penultimate cynic. 🙂 I may disagree with his point of view, or more likely, the _severity_ ofhis point of view, but more often than not, I always have the sinking feeling that there is a kernal of truth in his pointing out 'the dark side'.
#83730From: SyndesisJan 3, 1993 7:51 PM
If Pournelle's free from blame in this arena, then why would he threaten to stop examining the Amiga because some whiner on BIX accused him of bias? My point about "on the take" was not about cross-over between editorial and advertising… it's about how all that largess piled higher and deeper affects one's perspective on the computer industry. For example, without any reference to Pournelle: update-itis, wherein companies release new versions of products on a schedule that outpaces many people's pocketbooks. A writer who gets complimentary copies of these updates is more likely, I posit, to say "gee, this is great, y'all should go get it" that someone who's forced to shell out cash for the updates. As for Pournelle's relationship with the Amiga – I don't understand what you're saying. (I didn't say he needed to hear that CBM was placing ads again, in order for him to write about it.) You seem to be saying that Pournelle is willing to write about the Amiga as long as CBM can deliver a machine to him, and as long as people don't complain too much about what he does… I'm not suggesting that he sells all this stuff. I am saying he gets it for free, and he disposes of it as he wishes. He uses what he wants, no doubt. And I'm not going to respond to the personal darts at me that you placed in the last sentences of both of your messages… I question Pournelle, you question me for questioning him? And no, I've never been a member of the Communist Party.
#84386From: Alex BakerJan 9, 1993 2:52 PM
While I doubt that pay-offs are made to get reviews, the computer press does seem to handle things differently that other reviwing media. For example, the respected phot mags, buy off the shelf equipment, and then test/review it. The idea being that they will get the camera/lens that you or I would get, rather than a custom tuned demo model. With the barage of times that come through the door of Jerry's and probably most other high profile writers, is there any equipment/software, that the mags run out and purchase? Let me put it this way…. If you did not advertise in Byte, and you did not send a freebie to the Byte offices, or Jerry, how long do you think you'd have to wait to see your hardware/software reviewed. While not payola, or a direct bribe, since sending it won't guarantee you a slot, you must expend some money in the form of the "sample" to get your review done in the first place. Personally, I like the idea of the magazines purchasing, at least the hardware. That way, I feel that they are getting an average machine, not the one that has been hand assembled and babied all the way there to ensure it won't die. Perhaps Byte does purchase most of the reviewed items. You just didn't make it sound that way, so thought I'd ask. – Alex
#84449From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiJan 9, 1993 8:11 PM
Alex, You'd be amazed at how much defective hardware companies send to computer magazines. They rarely DO test the equipment before sending it out, strangely enough. Almost no computer magazines purchase the products they review. I'd guess that the cost is the main reason–Flying Magazine doesn't buy the planes either. 🙂 It's only loaner equipment, though. It's very rare that hardware doesn't have to be returned in 30 or 60 days. I honestly think that the vast majority of the mags are unbiased in the "payola" sense. I've met a few stupid freelance writers in my years who would write a positive review of a cardboard box with an 8-inch disk in it because they thought doing that would get them more reviews to write, but editors exist to try to keep people like that from ever working again. 🙂 The bias that exists is an ignorant perception that Commodore machines aren't to be taken seriously. Man, do I wish Creative Computing was still the leading computer magazine…. A far bigger problem than any "bias" is that so many magazine folks get to see the latest and greatest stuff that they lose track of what REAL people are using. From reading PC Magazine you'd think nobody had touched a 286 since 1989. I keep an A600 set up at COMPUTE and use it a fair amount just so I don't get too spoiled by my a4000, and so I can see how stuff performs on the kind of platform most folks use.
#83720From: Marion J DelandJan 3, 1993 5:42 PM
John, I don't care much for Pournelle's attitude myself, but the system pretty much works. Yes, companies give journalists free software and deals on hardware, but since everybody does it, the journalists stay fairly objective. If the top three companies in a field all give you free product, you're not particularly obligated to any of them. Advertising and editorial are generally kept separate. The bosses are conscious that while the advertising may pay off in the short term, it's their credibility with consumers that pays off in the long term. Though I admit that a magazine once held a bad review I wrote of a program (no, it was a GOOD review, of a bad product) until the product's introductory period was over. They could say they printed criticism without really affecting the sales of the product. Of course, it may have been coincidence! Marion CROSSINGS Newsletter for Amiga/PC compatibility
#83736From: SyndesisJan 3, 1993 8:00 PM
Those "good reviews of bad products" are / were especially common in many of the Amiga Sentry -type magazines that popped up along the way in the Amiga market. They really needed the advertising money. I still think I see too many reviews of products from Centaur, the same people as Creative Computers, who take out big ads in many magazines.
#84157From: Marion J DelandJan 7, 1993 5:12 PM
John, I'm not sure I made my meaning clear. It was a very critical review of a bad product, but it was well-written ("good"), if I do say so myself! Marion
#83562From: SyndesisJan 2, 1993 4:43 PM
haughty "Recommended," so they can reprint it in an ad. Pournelle gets his gizmos from gleeful marketroids at COMDEX, wined and dined at the press party, and Fed Ex'd the gizmo the following week. He uses the gizmo for his personal use, or gives it to his wife or son or… For how long? Does it matter? Eighteen months is the useful lifetime of most hardware or software in this industry. Or maybe he returns it. Or maybe he gives the extra piles of gizmos to friends or a charity. (Does he get the deduction?) Or take a columnist like John Dvorak. He writes more than 40 columns and articles a month. Where does he find the time to write, as well as investigate the things he writes about? It's not as if the computer industry is that different from others: there are travel writers who get free vacations in exchange for press coverage, and I know a book reviewer who probably pulls down $30,000 a year in cash, probably off the books (i.e., tax-free), from selling the books people send him in exchange for one-paragraph "reviews" in his librarian newsletter. I'll rescind this bald assertion the moment there exists a "Computer Reports" magazine similar to "Consumer Reports," and everyone writes for it… but I see no rush to cut the link between advertising, freebies and computer writers. Meanwhile, "caveat emptor".
#83608From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiJan 2, 1993 10:15 PM
My, thou has a dark outlook. Y'know, most hardware comes for a 30-60 day review period. 90 at the most. It's not like I call up, ask PP&S for an 040, and then sell it to my neighbor. And if the priveledge of using all this hardware and software made all the writers gushy and positive, then how do you explain negative reviews? Consumer Reports makes a big deal about buying everything. But their computer reviews are often laughably incomplete. There's some truth in what you say, especially in the videogame magazine arena. And I know two Amiga reviews (whose names I no longer see) who fit your description perfectly. But the industry is nowhere near as bad as you think it is.
#83612From: SyndesisJan 2, 1993 10:31 PM
No, I don't think I have a dark outlook – I'd characterize it as "realistic". Simply saying "there's good and bad out there" isn't dark – it's realistic. To the unwashed consumer, it's bewildering, I'm sure.
#83646From: Brian Simmons/COJan 3, 1993 2:49 AM
In addition to that, it's common for the writers in auto magazines to be employed by auto companies on the side. Remember that when you see one of those magazines review a car … the writer may have worked for them! I do know that one magazine (other than Consumer Reports) says their writers don't have any affiliations. —–> Brian Simmons, Denver, Colorado. – via Whap!
#83663From: Joanne DowJan 3, 1993 10:31 AM
Dunno about other writers but I have known Jerry for about 10 years now and I have NEVER known him to SELL anything he has received. (And he receives more <junk> than he can feed on to family members to see if they will use it even if it is not of interest to him.) At worst it is round filed. At best it is passed along to other people with the proviso THEY do not sell it and if they use it to tell him about it. Sometimes if the vendor involved allows it he will feed it along to LASFS, the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, for their fund raising auctions. (LASFS is a 501c organization and Jerry gets nothing in return for this other than a possible feel good that he helped the club and its library, which is a part of the LA public library system.) Believe it or not Jerry makes most of his income off his novels and collaberations. The BYTE column is a nice piece of steady extra bread. But it is not his primary income. He makes zero off anything shipped to him in terms of reselling it. You are irresponsible to suggest otherwise. Or was this your practice? {@_@}
#83738From: Mark SterlingJan 3, 1993 8:05 PM
Not all of us think Jerry is on the take. I DO think he is MS-Dos brainwashed. He sounds so damn silly talking about all the standing-on-his-head-twirling he does to get an extra 15k needed to load the latest driver or TSR. I have spent too much time lately doing the same thing for a little project I got myself into. Sheesh! Why don't they fix those things? Why did they write ALL the software for that miserable OS? So, on the one hand I feel sorry the poor brainwashed guy but on the other hand I am envious of the plethora of hardware and software he gets to play with. Somebody quick; send him a fast Sun RISC workstation. Goin' AP6 …..Mark Sterling6
#82889From: Mark D. ManesDec 27, 1992 11:12 PM
Christopher, Byte no longer owns BIX. -mark=
#83007From: Art SteinmetzDec 29, 1992 9:07 AM
I don't want to make a habit of this but in the interest of shedding light, not heat, here's a reposting from BIX from the author of the Byte article, copyright (c) General Videotext Corporation: amiga.user/main #197, from tyager, 1450 chars, Sat Dec 26 03:24:16 1992 Unfortunately, virtually ALL of BYTE's reviews are limited to about 1500 words, with the exception of the roundup and Solutions Focus, which are on pre-ordained topics only. I've been called to task for my comments on the A4000's display by others as well. The sluggish performance was specifically in the new 640×480, 256-color mode. None of the traditional Amiga modes seemed to be affected. Other 4000 users, and people from Commodore, have told me that this must have been a fluke of the machine I reviewed. I'm willing to take them at their word. Just so you know: I'm no longer working for BYTE. They cut me back to so few words on the Amiga review, I quit! No, actually, I left to strike out on my own as a freelancer and consultant, and to finish the multimedia book I'm writing for Academic Press. I can't speak for BYTE's policies any more, but in defense of this article: I did the best I could with the space I was given and the time I had. I didn't get the A4000 from Commodore until two days before the review's deadline, which had already been extended. You might notice that my opinions on the A3000T/040 are much more fleshed-out, because I had a couple of weeks with that system before the 4000 ever showed up. Thanks for your comments. I hope to continue furthering the cause of the Amiga, as it deserves it, as a freelancer. I welcome comments and suggestions from you. I hope you all had a relaxing and pleasant holiday. (ty) — END OF REPOSTING
#83010From: SyndesisDec 29, 1992 9:29 AM
Reading between the lines of sentence one and two, second paragraph: "I got paid for this 'review' and the check cleared." It's hard enough to define what "journalism" entails in the real world of newspapers and television – but computer magazines are stuck in a "trade journal" mode: no concern for truth, reprinted press releases, editors who don't care – hey, maybe that *is* how you define traditional journalism! 🙂
#83166From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiDec 30, 1992 12:41 PM
Not all computer magazines, John…
#83328From: Lou WallaceDec 31, 1992 4:55 PM
Definetly not all mags John. As you know very well. Lou
#83581From: SyndesisJan 2, 1993 6:09 PM
This is for both Lou and Denny, as well as anyone else who'd like to jump in on this topic… I do know that I prefer to associate with computer journalists that I think strive for objectivity in print… so note that the editors from the two magazines that I write for most often were the ones who piped up about my message. I should have inserted a modifier like "many" or "some" in my statement… I'll make my statement another way, and maybe we'll agree. There's more junk out there than can be ignored, yes? (And it isn't in the magazines we write for, right?) I can't ignore the awful, suck-up reviews I've seen. I can't ignore the mistakes and plagiarism I've seen first-hand between InfoWorld and PC Week, for example. On the other hand, I think it's important for computer consumers to realize exactly what is done to strive to produce an accurate, objective publication. I do think many editors work very hard to achieve this. If you can illuminate this process from the perspective of your post at your magazine, I'm sure it would be very interesting. Most computer consumers don't get to hear about this – step right up!
#83460From: SyndesisJan 1, 1993 9:05 PM
No doubt there's always super-hero crime-fighting journalists out there… hey, but we're never paid enough, are we? 🙂
#83468From: Gayle Lee FairlessJan 1, 1993 11:28 PM
Denny, I enjoyed reading your review in the January 1993 COMPUTE, pages 74 & 76, on the Hewlett-Packard DeskJet 500C. The comments on both "Windows and AmigaDos" clued that an Amiga user wrote it, and, of course, your name was at the end of the blurb. If you have any tips on configuring the DeskJet 500C for the Amiga 2000HD and various popular programs, it would be useful. The DeskJet seems to be a bit tricky to setup. I've bought the printer driver from Creative Focus. My dealer told me about it. On my bridgeboard, the HOME program from AutoDesk for designing houses did not have a specific driver for the DeskJet 500C. It is presently set for the HP Quietjet High Res (HP Mode). Have you used DiskMaster 2.0 by Greg Cunningham from Progressive Peripherals & Software with the DeskJet? I like to print out the occasional text file. Sincerely, (Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless 'Perfessor Fearless' BTW, the MicroSpeed Amtrac is working just fine!
#83534From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiJan 2, 1993 11:42 AM
Gayle, Thanks for the note. I just use the settings recommended in the Super_DJC documentations and find they work pretty well. You might check AutoDesk's forum here on CIS (I'm sure they're around here somewhere 🙂 and ask about a driver. I'm sure they have a DeskJet driver for that program now. I use the DJ mostly with ProWrite, Final Copy, PageStream, and ADPro. I'd definitely suggest picking up either TruePrint/24 or AdPro if you're interested in printing pics or posters. I use DiskMaster 2 all the time, but I've never utilized its printing capabilities. I do know that some early versions have printing problems, and if you have a version <DM2.04, you should contact PP&S for an udpate. …Denny
#83970From: Gayle Lee FairlessJan 5, 1993 11:20 PM
Denny, I think you're right about the AutoDesk forum. Oh well, fortunately AutoPilot doesn't have Whap!'s limitations on number of forums. Thanks!
#82475From: Wayne ColeDec 24, 1992 2:31 AM
I would categorize most Amiga users I know as intelligent, dicriminating, and, forward looking/thinking individuals with strong technical convictions. (Ok, Ok, opinionated – so sue me!!) :^} wmc – via Autopilot!
#82902From: Tom JonesDec 28, 1992 12:51 AM
Actually we amiga types are more than a little opinionated, we create the impression that we are techno-snobs among other platform users. It is not hard to find people who are actively anti-Amiga in the MsDos world just because of that attitude. Well, at least they can't accuse us of FALSE pretenses of superiority now that the new machines are out (grin). Maybe the company should adopt a new slogan to sell Amigas: "You don't have an inferiority complex, your present hardware really is inferior." Happy new year Wayne.
#83382From: Ron LegroJan 1, 1993 1:54 AM
Tom: Read your post to Wayne…ROTFLOL! That slogan you offered really does sum things up. I've recently busied myself over on CIS' Multimedia Forum, which is increasingly dominated by the Cult of Windoze (indeed, the "CD-I/CDTV/MPC" forum recently was renamed, with great flourish, to the "CD-I" forum, because that's all anyone over there wants to talk about. I encourage folks here to pop over to MM and browse … and to throw in your two cents every now and then. Those folks generally don't know what they're missing. I regularly offer polite comments to folks along the lines of "…FYI, if you want integrated speech synthesis cheap, buy an Amiga 600," or, "Just thought I'd point out that besides CD-I, CDTV does that, too." Occasionally, I'm thanked for my contribution. Usually, people take exception. One guy threw out a query regarding a good desktop multimedia setup. I came back with a long post about Amigas. To which he replied (I paraphrase): "Yup. Know about 'em. Nice machines. But my purchasing director only buys IBM or compatibles. I wouldn't risk pitching him an Amiga or anything else, because if it didn't work, my a** would be in a sling." Ironically, he went on to say he thinks Windows is a great environment, and cited Animation Works from (guess who?) Gold Disk as a program he's fond of! Ah, the tyranny of the majority!