#What Price Should it Be?
22 messages in this thread
Jan:
Thanks for the question. I agree, sympathize and appreciate the consumer
concern about pricing. It certainly is an issue in the acceptance of a new
technology like CDROM.
But I am forced (well, maybe not forced, exactly) to offer a contrarian
view. I don't think your examples are the best for making your point, and
I feel compelled to offer a publisher's perspective.
First, newspapers. Recognize that the total daily circulation of daily
newspapers in any major city rarely rises above 40% of households (Sundays
excepted, but not by much). Actual readership is far less. If people
don't read their own local paper when the news is hot, what's the motive
having dozens of papers on disc, probably without the *most* read sections
(comics, classifieds and other ads)? Now, what might be a hot number would
be articles from all over about a specific topic, like environmental
issues, or health, or crime. But just general news? Don't think so.
The discussion here on the Forum about OED fascinates me. OED is a fun
thing to have, but it is a lousy dictionary for everyday use. It is an
historical dictionary, a very specialized beast. The most readable,
multi-volume set is about $2500 in print. The very difficult two volume
set is $90 or $150 or whatever. The CDROM version adds enormous functional
capability over even the $2500 version, yet is priced at 1/3 at list! All
things being equal, sounds like a deal to me.
Consumers must recognize how much publishers spend to develop such
products, and how they make their money back. Getting all the newspapers
in a consistent electronic form is not slim task. And this is after any
royalty discussions.
{continued in reply}
{continued}
Print publishers are not yet accustommed to cumulative electronic
publishing, and CDROM publishers are in no position to dictate terms – yet.
And pricing must account for the cost of production over the long term, not
just a single project.
The OED operates with a very large staff, and they have exactly one
product, the OED, which they are now learning to sell in different ways.
Other dictionary publishers also spend a lot on development (typically
$7-10 million), but they can sell products in various print versions
(including paperback), and electronic versions (both stand-alone and as
part of other systems). They can also peel off parts for specialized
books. And they are not commited, as OED is, to maintaining huge files
backing up their citations and definitions for every word in the language.
Through all this rambling, I guess I'm trying to point out that there is a
lot more to making information products than may appear on the surface.
Even the small lists I have posted on this Forum required many hours of
effort. The price any user pays is, at most, a couple of minutes of
down-loading time. It is very rare for any publishing enterprise to
generate a cash-cow. It is a lucky and happy accident. And they go
through a lot of dogs before that happens. Perhaps the biggest problem
facing CDROM publishers is that everyone knows the cost of the medium is
small. And what they now have to do is actually price the value of the
content itself. This is tough, and will take some time to sort itself out.
This monolog has not been particularly well structured, but I hope it has
added some insight.
Have a great Holiday! — Rich Bowers
Rich,
I hear you, but I believe there is another factor at work…Very
few people really believe in price elasticity. Down there in their guts the
people at OUP really don't believe that there are a million people who
would spring $49.95 for the OED. They think they would end up selling twice
as many copies at one tenth the price, and lose their shirts. I've seen
this phenomenon every time the _cost_ of something falls drastically–the
old players never see the profit to be gained by passing along the benefit.
OTOH, with our disk, _giving_ it away would (at least so far) have
been of minimal help–on three out of four sales so far the customer (a New
Hampshire lawyer) has had to go out and buy a computer not just a CDROM
drive in order to use the darn thing. Thus it was already a big ticket item
even before our price.
I don't have a good answer.
Frank
BTW, why not hit up Discovery for a cut of the royalties _they're_ getting,
to cover your efforts on their behalf?
Frank,
There is a "right price" and wrong prices for everything. People that
cannot see reality staring them in the face (the "old players") usually die
and are replaced by those that do understand. The Japanese manufacturers
understand, the American Car, TV, Stereo, Camera, (and so on, ad nauseum)
do not, so America is essentially losing it's manufacturing. To be fair,
the Japanese didn't discover this truth all by themselves, they studied our
marketing and manufacturing geniuses and followed their dictums.
There is definitely a "wrong" price also. Try "selling" a fresh, new $20
bill to a friend for "only" $10. You probably wont make the sale. In your
case, I think you are taking the short term view. Giving away your disc
might possibly be as effective a sales technique as giving away the first
few "hits" (or what-ever they're called) of Crack. As horrible as it is,
drug dealers have apparently learned how to create a market.
And with all respect to all those professional marketing people out there,
finding the "right" price for the OED would not be too difficult. It could
be as simple as purchasing a mailing list of CD-ROM owners (from drive
suppliers, etc), and writing a letter with a list of check-off boxes.
"Enclosed, please find my order for the OED CD-ROM for $100, $200, $300,
$500, $750, etc." It would be simple to figure out which was the best
return and gain REAL sales and real bucks in return. You could do this
with your clientel.
I am not "picking" on the OED folks. I admire them and wish them all the
success in the world. If they don't read the signs, they may be in for a
rough ride. As the consumer becomes educated, they vote with their
dollars.
Perhaps the question should be, "How to keep the consumer ignorant?"
Jan
Jan,
Is OED just trying to protect the printed version of OED with its pricing
structure?
— Albert Dayes
Albert,
OUP isn't trying to "protect" anything. They are running scared and they
don't know what to do. (Analysis parallisis?) If they did, they would be
taking a pro-active stand (aggressively marketing, "right" price, etc).
Reminds me of the good old days in Taiwan (late '50's early '60's). The
book pirates had a standing policy: get them a book to pirate, they would
take it apart, use the pages as "camera ready art", pirate it, rebind your
original and give you 10 free copies. You could buy the full set of
Encyclopedia Briticannica (leather bound!) for only $25. The paper was
only two shades thicker than toilet paper (and considerably less
comfortable, the ink, you know). Think it was 26 volumes!
Now imagine, if you will, if those guys are still in business (they are)
and they decide to go into the CD-ROM business! Guess you read about the
'though police' (SPA) recently seizing fourteen 40' trailer loads of bogus
MS-DOS complete with holograms (you can buy the holograms in China for 2
cents each – the whole works costs a bit more).
If you were OUP, wouldn't you be concerned? Bringing the dictionary out on
CD-ROM is better than "camera ready art". A CD-ROM is a perfect
"pre-master" for production. Things are in their (OUP) favor, if only they
can realize it. Taiwan could (probably still can) produce a 24 volume set
of the encyclopedia and sell it profitably at $25 while everyone was
absolutely uncompetitive. Taiwan, however, will cost just about the same
to produce a CD-ROM (they lose the mega advantages in price of costs). If
OUP priced it reasonably, the pirates would buy from them!
When will they ever learn?
Jan
Rich,
The point I wanted to make is that if publishers PROPERLY price their
product, they will substantially increase their profit and better serve
their public at the same time.
The goal of most publishers (businessmen/women) is to make a profit.
Right? The more, the better. It is where the interests of the publisher
and those of the reader coincide that the former gets rich, and the latter
becomes richer (in knowledge, happiness, etc).
I am not insisting on a low price for the CD-ROM title just because it is
inexpensive to produce. It is obvious, though, that this medium has a
great potential to serve both sides (publisher, reader) very well. I
really want the publisher(s) to get RICH with CD-ROM. I want them to put
EVERYTHING on CD-ROM for the sake of us all! I want the equivalent of the
Library of Congress in my office and in my den. I want it ALL, Rich!
But I am afraid that the shysters, shylocks, and schnooks will (are?) take
unfair advantage of an unsuspecting public and publish large quantities of
junk. That will soak up too much of the "dispensable income" of those with
"propensities to consume". If that happens before we reach critical mass
(everyone in the world knows what CD-ROM can do, and realizes that they
need it), CD-ROM will fail! Everyone will have a bad taste in their
collective mouths, having been fleeced again!
You recognize this. Even in attacking my choice of newspapers as an
example, you point out that circulation is in free-fall, and that the
"right" information presented in the "proper" way (useful news, cross
referenced) would be a "hot topic!". What is "right" for you may be
"wrong" for me. The point is that the newspapers have the vehicle to get
all the info to everyone in a good format, in good time, and satisfy
everyone's need for the "right" stuff. If they continue to pump out messy,
inky, smelly, WOOD derived, littering, trash compounding, giant piles of
paper, they will surely die. They are
(continued…)
Jan,
Great thread on Cd pricing and the OED!
I think your flaming the publishers of the OED a much. I expect that there
price will come down eventually. After all if you remember, for many years
the miniature version was given away as a gift to join the book of the month
club. Therefore the effective market price couldn't have been more than $15.
I am impressed that the publisher moved quickly to replace the original CD
version with a much improved new version in terms of seach engine and ease of
use.
The OED is a unique product and in terms of competition now it is its own
competitor. That is if you don't want to pay up for the CD you can buy the
miniature version or go to the library and look at the multivolume edition.
Also are you aware that the OED is available on a worldwide computer network.
I have instant access to th OED now at the office through a dedicated
Financial Market news service called Bloomberg Financial News that I use at
the office. I can also access the network by modem from home. I had suggested
that the OED might be available on Compuserve, but it seems some people were
afraid of the connect time charges.
BTW, I think the time frame of the people at the OED is a bit longer than
other publishers. Afterall, the second edition of the OED took about 50 years
to complete. The original editor Sir James Murray labored from 1885 until his
death in 1915 and had only completed about half. As to the profit motive, the
OED was nothing if not a labor of love. Most of the word compilers were
amateurs who were paid nothing and funding was always limited as it was by no
means certain the project could be completed. I you're interested in this
background, you should read "Caught in the Web of Words", which is the story
of Murray and the OED.
My understanding is that the publisher intends to update the OED on a regular
basis, now that computers make that possible. Therfore it could be possible
to price it so that for $750 you get all future updates free, while at $150
it costs $50 each year for an update. Tim
(cont from previous message)
dying right now and they know it. They just think they are dying because
TV is more convient. They're right, of course, but suppose they delivered
their (and 1,000 affiliated) paper each morning on CD-ROM. They would be
providing what TV could not hope to do – the ultimate information source.
Could be done. With that sort of volume, the newspaper subscription might
even be less in price than it is today. And so on …
The OED. You point out that the "difficult" version goes for $90-$150, and
that the CD-ROM version is 1/3rd the cost of the biggie. What accounts for
these differences in cost? The information? It is all in the cheap
version, isn't it? The full size volume must cost ten or more dollars per
volume, while the CD-ROM costs $1 or so. The query or sort facilities make
up the difference? BAH, HUMBUG! If that were so, then OED would owe an
incalcuable debt to all the designers and authors of search routines,
indexing, and even computer logic. Do they put the price high to pay those
people? No! They price the CD-ROM in some distorted version of their
ancient press/paper/distribution cost scheme. Do they even serve their own
objectives properly? I don't know. Do you? What is their objective in
publishing this "lousy dictionary …"? Who funds it? For what purpose?
Why does it exist? What is it good for? If Oxford University chose not to
publish it, would Yale have to pick up the pieces?
If their objective is altruistic, if, for example, they want to promote the
proper use of English, or simply propogate English, they should give it
away! If their purpose is to make money, they should maximize their
return. What better way than to expand their market. Is $1,000 the right
price? How many people will buy it at $1,000? Or are they screwing the
market, the public, and you and me specifically because we can't justify
spending $1,000 for a $1 piece of plastic NO MATTER WHAT IT CONTAINS!
(Continued)
I am absolutely sure that if it were priced at $100, they would increase
their circulation by factors of magnitude! Would that fit their goals? It
might make Oxford University Press so wealthy that the mind would boggle!
Consumers are not stupid. As they (American auto buyers, and even American
computer buyers) have shown, big corporations can only mess with them for
so long (GM, IBM, etc). It takes a bit to get them moving. That "bit" is
hitting them in the pocketbook. Publishers have tremendous costs, but they
should recover them and make a profit by providing a service that the
public wants and needs, not by making incredible profit on their ignorance.
(OED again, if all the info is available at $90 in print, what is the
"value" or "price tag" on that info?) When a publisher learns how to
fulfill a need, I believe he has a moral obligation to the public and to
himself to price it properly. Properly priced means fairly, and positioned
so that the optimum market will be served. OED's CD-ROM price is
predatory! It is unholy! It is a FRAUD! And they will be found out, and
in the end, they will suffer. If, on the other hand, they priced it
reasonably, they will sell thousands, tens of thousands, maybe even
millions of copies more than they are now. For that they will be
financially rewarded! If they don't change their price, once the public
"catches on", they will fail!
Suppose, for example, that Sony Corp. decided to produce a bigger, better
and more useful dictionary. How long would OED last as anything but a
curiosity? Ask the thousands of companies that died through that
experience.
Rich, please understand me. I am on the side of OED. I am a voice in the
wilderness crying out. I want them to succeed. I want every CD-ROM
producer to succed (at least, those that conform to my personal, rigid,
dictatorial standards!).
What I really want is "Power for the People" simply because I am a people.
Why don't we all tell OED (and others)?
Jan
Jan:
I hope you don't think I was "attacking" your examples, I was disagreeing,
but…
Re: newspapers. They not only have a problem with paid circulation, they
are having problems proving _readership_. ABC's claim is correct to the
extent that most people do indeed get their news from electronic broadcast
media. So the question the publisher must ask is, if it is increasingly
tough to publish a single city's news in a single paper that members of
that community will read, how useful would a daily compilation of 1000
papers be? Keeping in mind that most of the revenue comes from advertisers
who support the overhead costs of keeping the company in business. New
forms of communications may in fact be the best way to to deliver that
information, if they can figure out how to get paid for it.
Re: OED. First of all, I think I said the dictionary was "lousy" for
everyday use. It is the best and only of its kind for scholarship about
the language. That is what makes it interesting to some, and less
interesting to others (the majority). Secondly, yes indeed the cost of the
software which provides additional usefulness of the content is indeed a
legitimate and significant cost factor for an electronic version!
Your points demonstrate the differences in the dynamics of differing kinds
of publishing businesses. Newspapers and magazines make their money by
selling advertising. Businesses pay for access to the readership, the
publisher uses that money to create the product. Books like OED or Just
Grandma and Me or whatever, must recover all their costs, AND make a
profit, directly from the buyer. There is no advertiser to buffer the
consumer from all the costs.
[continued in reply]
[continued from previous message]
So the problem of pricing consists of (at least) 2 major components. One,
it certainly can be argued that some publishers think to highly of the
value of their content. Two, publishers make their money from a variety of
sources. And that business model dictates, to a large extent, how pricing
must be done, to accommodate development, production, marketing and profit.
That's not to say there aren't better business models from which publishers
could draw. In fact, that is one of the points OPa and mysfle advocate.
The movie industry has learned to profit from many sources: the original
release, merchandise licensing, sound tracks, foreign rights and video
rental/sales. Some publishers, with some products, could take adavantage
of these techniques, if they re-examined their goals and methods.
I also want it all, and I also see CDROM (and other electronic media) as a
way to meet some very progressive social goals, making more info available
to more people in a variety of ways, including lower prices. But I don't
think it's fair to propose that CDROM publishers with high priced products
are essentially ripping off the consumer. I think it's fairer to say they
are in a very steep learning curve, and as they learn to modify their
production and revenue models, our goals as consumers will be realized.
I think it's relevant that every new medium (just as every new technology)
begins at a very high price point. From initial print products (when only
royalty could afford books), to initial video releases (when only renatl
business could afford a movie on tape), producers and consumers have had to
dance together for awhile before the producers could understand the most
effective marketing strategy, and consumers could appreciate the value of
the product. And prices work themselves toward a compromise.
[continued}
[continued from previous]
We are generating an increasingly rich collection of options of media from
which to choose. Each component of that mix has its place in the market.
And there will be more. As each is absorbed into the market, they will
become increasingly accessible (from both a technology AND and pricing
perspective), and will also generate new alternative forms of
communication, about which we will be having the same discussion in years
to come.
I hope this further crystallizes the discussion.
Take care. Rich Bowers
"I think it's relevant that every new medium (just as every new technology)
begins at a very high price point." Oh, yeah? What about religion?
Rich, it's fun debating with you but I feel that we probably pretty much
agree on most points (mine, of course). What can WE do to help move this
thing along? (Subtle suggestion: Why don't you use your position as
mentor of the OPA to pass this thread on to OUP and others and LEAD then in
the right and proper pricing direction (down!).
Best regards
Jan
Rich,
Remember when railroads thought they were in the "railroad" business? My
concern is for the publishers, newspaper, OED, or what-ever that can't see
the writing on the wall and that aren't reacting. If they don't move with
the times, they will be buried. I'm not picking on them, I want them to
survive, but to get with it and to really fulfill the needs. Some
newspapers are slightly progressive. Some sponsor BBSes, some even put out
CD-ROMs. Most don't. Probably every one of them, even the very smallest
(especially the very smallest?) is computerized. Most use their computers
as tools to put ink on paper. That is like using a CNC Argon laser to make
stone wheels! If the newspapers used their computers effectively (CD-ROM,
communications, etc) they COULD deliver a CD-ROM to everyone's door before
breakfast, not only with all the news (in color, yet), with all the
perspective, with everything cross referenced, and with software that would
get you the specific news you wanted, but also with much better advertising
than they currently offer. (Why not, my own CD-ROM of CD-ROMs will have
advertising on it, and so far, advertisers are EXTREEMLY excited about the
project). What percentage of ads are ready now? The rules of thumb are
that you must FLOOD the market to get a .002 return. In my scenario, you
would tell your Newspaper reading software what you need, what you are
interested in, and what you have a mild interest in. The software would
tactfully solicit new interests (you read about a neat new product in the
news – the computer 'knows' you read that article because you scrolled
through it – so it asks if you want to know where to buy it). Even better,
it places the order for you electronically, EFT's the money, and gives you
direct feedback from the manufacture before you finish your toast.
If I were an advertiser, I would be more interested in results than in how
many tons of ink defaced how much paper.
The networks (cont)
(cont from previous message)
would have a very tough act to follow. Newspapers would flourish!
Re: your choice of words on the OED, you left it open–I just couldn't
resist!
Heaven knows that probably 97.35% of the American public would benefit from
the OED! Have you tried to speak to a young person? (Do they speak
English?). Which costs more? Laying out all the paste-ups and art work to
make the sub-microscopic version to retail at $150?, or transferring the
text files already in computer to a CD-ROM format? Rich, you can't win
this on trying to justify costs in doing things the old way. There are
several software packages that will cross reference, and convert to
Hypertext complete manuscripts and get them ready for CD-ROM with almost NO
HUMAN INVOLVEMENT. (If you're interested, Lotus's SMARTEXT, among others).
Moving OED to CD-ROM probably reduced their production costs from $100+ per
set to $1.00+.
What sort of justification does that leave for their absurd price on the
CD-ROM? (ABSURD: ab-surd. "So clearly untrue or unreasonable as to be
laughable or ridiculous". Webster's new World Dictionary of the American
Language, Second College Edition). They have reduced their production
costs by TWO factors of magnitude and they set their retail price only
6629.6296% times production costs! WOW! I'm REALLY glad their expertise
is claimed to be in the language. If they were economists they would
probably be in the new cabinet!
Rich, we've got to quit meeting this way. Let's give the others in the
forum a chance to jump in. It should be obvious to everyone that we are at
the end of one era and the beginning of another. Sure there are going to
be lots of mistakes. Sure things are going to change dramatically, and the
path to the future is very difficult to discerne.
It is exciting to be living at this cross-road!
It is doubly exciting to know that I am right and everyone else is wrong!
(Can't resist one last dig). (cont in next)
Jan:
I think it is healthy when two gentlemen simply agree to disagree, and this
is probably one of those cases. I certainly agree with your overall goals.
But having spent some years in both the advertising and publishing
businesses, I think there are some important issues you are overlooking.
And the OED is an organization and product of which I happen to have some
inside knowledge. I don't think flooding Oxford's offices with mail will
have the result you expect, but it's certainly worth a shot.
BTW, I just got my Jan issue of Americn Demographics, with an article about
how newspapers are finding new ways to exploit their assets. Terrific
quote: "A newspaper is a database trapped in paper and ink. Now
publishers are finding new ways to set their information free."
Free the enslaved bits! Unchain the down-trodden databases! Bytes unite!
The publishing world is changing, 5 years from now we'll be able to see how
radically. But as the philosopher Meryl Streep once "Instant gratification
takes too long!"
Best — Rich Bowers
Rich,
You are very kind, but actually, we are not disagreeing! I think you and I
hold very similar views, we just skewer them a little differently.
I got a press release today: "Carlsbad, Calif – Dec 23, 1992 – More than
100,000 news stories from january 1990 to August 1992 are now available on
CD-ROM from Compton's NewMedia… USA TODAY: The '90s Volume One ($69.95)
is a complete reference source featuring text, graphics, photos and audio
organized into the same key sections …
Do you think they were listening, Rich?
Rgds
Jan
Jan, thank you for your excellent thoughts on the pricing of CDs,
specifically the OED. I agree with your comments about the current state
of pricing of CDs. Some of the problem, I'm sure, relates to the newness
of the field. Remember how much blank beta tapes cost when betamax
recorders were the only option on the market? I think I used to pay $30
per tape for tapes that now cost three dollars. Remember how much 1.44Mb
floppies used to cost just a few years ago? Look at the suggested price of
Encarta. For a product that appears as though it's going to blow the socks
off the competition, it's priced well below other "multimedia" CD
encyclopedias currently on the market. Maybe the folks at OED need some
competition <grin>.
At the current price of somewhere around $900, I'll never buy the CD
version of the OED (I already own the "compact" printed version.) At a
price of $250-300, I would add the OED to my "seriously consider
purchasing" list. At $100-150, I'd go out and purchase it today.
I hope the OED people get the message soon about the overpricing of their
product and the potential market that might open up if they'd consider
lowering their price. I'd be pleased to fire off a letter to Oxford
University Press and/or the distributors of the OED expressing my thoughts
on this. If you'll post the address, I'll do it immediately.
Allen
Allen,
I've got to admit. One of my major concerns is the loss of plain old
business sense here in America (and happily, obviously in England also!)
Our manufacturers come up with a good product–say a Widjit. It's new, no
one has ever built one, it replaces hours of drudgery with a push of a
button, but it only costs $1.00 to make. Our guys take the short view:
price it based on the labor it replaces. That is ok if no one else can
ever come up with a better product. But what happens in the real world is
that Taiwan or Japan learns about the product, sees it priced at $1,000
when it costs only $1.00 to make, and jumps in with a realistic price
(cars, stereos, etc). The American cries "FOUL!" (I guess he think's it's
only fair for HIM to screw everyone!) We lose our manufacturing to the
dirty, cheating, theaf'in, copy-cat foreign manufacturers. Our consumers,
on the other hand, are overjoyed! They buy better sneakers at prices less
than they paid when they were kids!
Well, here we go again!
When I lived in Taiwan (during the cold war), we used to speculate that if
only half the population of China threw only one pebble each into the
Formosa Straits, they could MARCH over and kick our American butts out of
Taiwan. Suppose they decide to start producing CD-ROM?
I think it is a great idea for you (and everyone else, including me and
Rich) to write OED. Please see next message for their addresses!
Jan
Allen,
Following is OED addresses (and, of course, a few comments)
Oxford University Press, Electronic Publishing Division
Walton Street Oxford OX2 6DP United Kingdom
Ms. Janet Caldwell, Customer Services Manager
Tel: 011 44 865 267979
Fax: 011 44 865 56646
Oxford University Press is the considered to be the world's
largest University press. It publishes around 2,500 titles a
year in the U.K., is purported to have a backlist of over 18,000
titles. They currently sell about 18 million books a year.
Ms. Royalynn O'Connor, Assistant Marketing Manager
Oxford University Press
Electronic Publishing Division
200 Madison Avenue New York NY 10016 USA
Tel: (212) 679-7300 extension 7370
Fax: (212) 725-2972
ANYONE that has a backlog of 18,000 books should not brag about it! They
should aggressively start publishing them on CD-ROM!
I quit! I was trying to stay out of this, but I can't. If you think the OUP
prices are high, then you needed to see what the "legit" line prices are.
$1500 for one year of a major market newspaper on ROM. Your sociaistic
ideals that the consumer has the right to demand prices that they (read: a
minority) WANT tp pay is ridiculous, ludicrous, maybe could even be termed
"absurd" I charge some of my customers $250 dollars an hour for my
consulting and require a minimum of 8 hours to even look at a situation
according to your qay of thinking I should not be allowed to charge that
because so many others charge less or because so many others might sya that
they will give the same service as I do but won't (your bootlegging idea),
or maybe my customers should write me letters and tell me to charge less.
BULLFEATHERS! Take a quarter and buy a clue!
If you don't think it is worth it, vote with your feet and buy something
else but how dare you think that you have the right to DEMAND someone to
lower their price. For the record we have sold a number of the discussed
items to the schools in our area and they are quite happy with their purchase.
I can tell that you have not been in business either very successfully or
for very long. Having run a 4 million a year sales company I learned a long
time ago that if you think that people are ready for your "newspaper of the
future" then you need to go back to marketing school. People exert as
little effort as possible and reading is included in that. One of the
biggest problems is that people will go out of their way to avoid
advertising and that is very easy to do on CDROM. Best to you with your
venture, but you might figure out where to look if it doesn't work
Frank Harris
Computron, Ltd.