#Playmation
32 messages in this thread
Mark,
I've been a user of Playmation for about 2 years (since, gulp, it's Amiga
days). Recently upgraded to the new Animation:Master. The docs are *much*
better, plus some really useful features have been added.
Tech support is pretty spotty, you can try the bbs, or one of these two tech
support numbers.
bbs: (206) 574-5619
voice (206) 699-5360 (recorded message, they get back to you, maybe)
(206) 750-0042 (this number was given out by one of the people
involved with the program on the bbs, have never used it)
My biggest problems getting started were understanding spline patches and
channels. Both huge areas to discuss without a specific question.
To simply render an image you have to start the Director module, and add
points, called "paths", for all objects, lights, targets, and the camera. If
you are interested I'll email an easy tutorial to get you started.
Andrew.
>> …upgraded to the new Animation:Master.
PMJI, I was wondering if you are doing actual work with Ani:Master? If so,
could you explain the general type of stuff, i.e. character type stuff? I
don't want to be overly nosey but I am interested in it's capabilities and what
you think of them. Thanks in advance.
Andrew,
Thanks for the phone numbers, and the offer of a quick tutorial. I
have tried the BBS number about 50 times now, and managed to make a
connection that worked just once! I downloaded some text files and
noticed that there is a 6 hour video series done by some gurus, but
no info on how to order it! If you know of this series I would be
greatful for ordering info.
As for a quick tutorial. I have been able to use exisiting segments
to create characters and then have been able to animate these
characters. But my complaint is that the characters look nothing
like the ones on the video, or on the cover of the manual. I guess
my problem is in the character mapping and texturing area. But I
really don't know where I am going wrong. Another thing I have not
been able to do is create an original character, or segment. Other
than a vase! I have been toying with the idea of getting Render 24 and
seeing if that helps my characters, but don't want to waste anymore
money if this isn't the problem. I have a fast enough machine, and I
am able to display 24-bit at 800×600 and 16-bit at 1024×768, so it is
a problem with the creation process, not the displaying of the
characters. Any insight you may have would be greatly appreciated.
And if you know anyone at Hash perhaps you could tell them that there
is a budding Playmator who is very frustrated and could use a bit of
guidance. Thanks again
Mark DeMazza
BTW I am most interested in being able to create still-lifes, like the baby
grand piano I have downloaded, than in creating animations. If I could just
create a realistic looking apple I would be satisfied!
Mark:
The BBS is rather underdeveloped and under supported, compared to
Compuserve/etc.
I bought the videos, and found them to be a MUST! Forget the manual, the
videos were my big help.. I paid $50 or so, and am glad I did.
One caveat though, they are unpolished, and mostly unedited. I could have done
a much better job, but their point is only to offer the info for cheap. With
the new Playmation 2.0, I would assume the manuals are better, but the old one
didn't help much at all. If you want, I could sell you mine for a bit less, or
you could call Hash direct (I never have problems getting through) at
(206)750-0042
I have Render24, and all it does is render faster(about twice as
fast), larger images(4000×4000 and up), and more colors(16.8
million). In comparison to the stock, 256 color files, the Render24
(16.8 million color) image is much better. It won't help much with
texturing and such, but you will see the real coloring… I am very
glad I bought it, and am suprised they made it an option. If you are
serious about good images, you'll want Render24. Personally, I'd
check into Playmation 2.0, I'm not sure, but I think it includes
Render24. Either way, it's *alot* better than the version we have
now.
JNJ
I've been seeing the occasional message about Playmation. Do you
have the name of the company that produces it and their phone, fax
numbers as well, if you have them? What do you think of the product.
How capable is it. Being a windows based program what is the speed
like?
Mike: Playmation, and it's big brother Animation:Master are
available from Hash, Inc. They have a distrubition company that
handles some shipping, but I call them direct. They can sell you
anything you need, and are happy to answer your questions. I just
called today, and he was happy as usual to try to answer my most
picky and detailed questions. He didn't know all the answers, but
isn't really the tech support type guy. The tel # is (206) 750-0042.
Playmation 2.0 is just out, and is much improved over my current
version, but if you are looking to do serious animation,
Animation:Master is the one to look at. It's strengths (both,
really) is character animation. It's not well suited for a quick and
dirty flying logo. (or even a sophisticated one) I've done a flying
logo with it, but it took a long time to render, and I had to
improvise. There is no direct font support, but there are a few fonts
(as objects) available for about $30 total..
About speed, it's the raytracing that takes the time, not Windows. I
have both a Windows renderer and a dos, command line one. The
windows one works in the background, and the other hogs all the
resources for itself. And, being a Windows program, I can multitask
between my paint program, the modeler, the directing module,
Compuserve stuff, a word processor, and do a background render all at
the same time. It also takes advantage of my Viper video card, and
doesn't require special drivers for it.
As far as real world use, I don't have enough experience using it to
really say if it's worth it in a production environment. I'm a
college student, and only really do things that I want to, and
they're not that deadline oriented. I do wish the renderer were
faster, but other than that, I like it. It's different than 3DS, but
good.
Like I said before though, I would recommend Animation:Master for any
serious work. For around $800, the feature set is better, and more
powerful than playmation's. Also, pretty soon, there will be an NT
version of A:M for only about a hundred dollar upgrade. Rendering
there should be much better, and hopefully quicker.
I think that Bryce Whiteside has used Playmation for some business
projects, mabe he'll pop in to give a real world perspective.
Give Hash a call, they can send you some info.. Also see the other
Animation:Master thread. There's a list of some of the things it can
do, and my comparison of it to 3DS. (I suggest having both.)
Thanks for the advice. I'm a student too, so commercial production
isn't my biggest concern. Stability, quality of output, future growth
of the product and upgrade path are.
I've looked into a student version of 3DS for these reasons and the
local dealer told me v3.0 is $1,500, which is just too prohibitively
priced for me. Autodesk has apparently taken two tier price gouging
to heart in Canada, as I know that the pricing is lower in the
states.
I've been trying to find packages that are reasonably competitive with
3DS, but lower priced. From what you're saying a good combination
might be 3DS v2 and either of the Hash products. Each package
addressing different aspects of animation. It still sounds to me like
the preferable route would be to go with 3DS v3 and wait for IPAS to
open many of the doors currently closed to 3DS. Now if I could only
afford to get a copy <g>.
I'm going to check out some dealers in Toronto to confirm this $1,500
pricing. The dealer here was more than a little hostile about
student version pricing. He accused me of trying to run a scam to
get a cheaper copy. It seems odd that Autodesk would have such a
badly implemented and discriminatory pricing policy. With Student ID
required they could offer a $995 deal here to provide equal access to
3DS and not worry about cross border shopping.
Mike: I hear ya! 3D is really hard on the wallet. Many of us don't
go to big California colleges that have loads of idle SGI machines
sitting around to learn on, and must come up with the cash
ourselves. My 3D stuff is coming out of my college $$…
I'm planning on getting 3DS R3 for $500 here in the states. Mabe you
can too, through someone here on Compuserve. I know of one
(shameless <g>) dealer that might be able to help you out is Greg
Pyros. (who seems to be really busy right now) I'm sure there are
many others, but I haven't tacked down who is and isn't one around
here.
If you can't get R3 inexpensively, you might want to get R2, or one of
the Hash products. Using a broad generalization [keep this in
context guys], Playmation is more like a R2 type product, with
Animation:Master being like the R3. The latter being more powerful,
and better suited for business, but the former being good for
learning. The earlier versions have a less direct translation into
the business world though. Being fluent in R2 animation, for example,
is great but not the same as having R3 down pat. There's a step in
learning that one must overcome on the job. I would, however, say
that learning R2 would be a ton better than nothing at all.
About Playmation/Animation:Master, they can teach you alot about
character animation, but remember that they are not the industry
standard. Knowing R2 would probably look better on a resume than
knowing Animation:Master. (but the product is what really counts.) R3
would top them all, depending on the place you apply. I heard of
someone in a big animation place (like Rythm & Hues/etc.) that turns
demo tapes off when he sees things like flying logo's, etc. He was
looking for things that really moved.. like characters. So, it
really depends on where you want to go. Character animation is really
taking off, and Animation:Master/ Playmation would be great to learn
the concepts of it, and at a relatively low cost. But many are
looking for 3DS experience.
I plan to get R3, *and* Animation:Master. This gives me a broad base
of experience, and strengthens my adaptability in working on all
sorts of projects. I'll just spend a ton of much needed money doing
it. I don't see any option. I'm graduating this spring, and want to
be running at full speed when I leave. In the end, it'll be worth
it. I hope. <gasp>
I see a couple areas of significant growth that you might want to
learn about. One is games development. This is really big, and
personally is one area of strong interest to me. Another area, which
also can tie in with games stuff, is digital composition of grabbed
video/film, and computer generated images. Movies like Jurassic
Park, and Terminator 2 are excellent examples of that kind of work.
(which, to the untrained eye, is really hard to see.) Simpler
examples are the new "interactive movies" on CD-ROM coming out left
and right. These things are hot stuff, and I hope to be able to
dabble in both of these things while still in school.
Take advantage of everything you can right now. As crazy as it
sounds, this is our only real time to safely play around. Now about
all that homework… <g> I think the senior year should be class
free. I have too many projects I want to work on, and too much silly
classwork expected of me. Oh well. 12 more weeks..
One last thing.. do you read 3D magazines/journals? I think it's
important in keeping up with things. I'd be glad to spew off the
ones I get, if you are interested.
sorry for the rambling. good luck. JNJ
(Be sure to read the other discussions about the Hash products. I may
talk alot, but I don't begin to know it all. And actually, I'm sure
several here think I'm pretty naive. Time will tell.)
Just to clarify, Pyros Partnership doesn't not carry the Autodesk
educational products (or pricing)! Sorry!
Greg,
So you do? <G>
Fred
Fred:
>> So you do? <g>
So you do do what? <g>
Greg
Greg,
You had better check with Gus about Do Do!
Fred
How much material is there in your upcoming book and Applied 3D Studio
about 3DS2? That may be the way I end up going.
Could you give me pricing info on both books. Be kind <g>, you
wouldn't believe what the exchange rate and taxes do to purchases –
36% exchange, 7% federal taxes, 8% Provincal taxes <BG – Big Grimace
– with those numbers>.
Almost enough to make me move to California – biblical ravages and
all. Although, come to think of it, we've had only about 4 hours
above freezing since November and that was for a rain storm that
promptly froze over when the temperature dropped back to the low
single digits. Have a spare room for a frozen refugee <g>.
Could you tell me how much the shipping charges might be for either or
both books? Your 1,400 page budget book must pack a hefty charge.
Just because Clinton put the budget on CD-ROM doesn't mean you have
to save the pulp and paper industry single-handed, though your
efforts at least have reading value <g>.
Do you know of anyone south of the border who carries the educational
version and would do business with me through the mail. Could you
recommend a dealer in Toronto I can confirm that $1,500 student
pricing with.
I saw your response to the remarks about you not returning messages.
I've lurked in the shadows of this forum for a long time – so long
that I have mushrooms growing in the chair beside me <g> and your
advice and helpfulness is one of the things I constantly marvel at. I
hope this was just some sort of misunderstanding because it is
certainly unwarranted !!
Mike:
The book is geared to 3DSR3, but many of the concepts are just as applicable to
3DSR2. And when you upgrade, you'll be ready!
Yes, California has been interesting these last few years. Earthquakes, fires,
riots, mudslides and, believe it or not, a tornado last week that popped out
most of the glass on the office building two doors over from us!
I don't know offhand what the shipping charges would be, but it's worth it,
whatever they are!
Greg Pyros
Can I have more info about your upcoming book? Will it be available through CBK
here on CI$?
Teut
Greg,
>> Just to clarify, Pyros Partnership doesn't not carry the Autodesk
educational products (or pricing)! <<
OUCH, that one had to hurt! <BG>
Chuck
WHAT!!!!!! The Pyros Partnership actually DOESN'T carry something?!?!
I thought you had everything in the known universe related to
Autodesk! The next thing you'll be telling me is that there's no
Energizer bunny!
Dear Dave (The Disillusioned): I guess there is one group of
Autodesk products we don't carry! Actually, the way we look at it,
we do carry educational copies of 3D Studio, we just charge the
normal price for them! <g>
>> we just charge …
ZZZZingggg!!!!! :^)
John Stetzer
JWS
I guess ANY use of 3DS could be considered educational (as in "gosh! I didn't
know I could do THIS!<g>)!
Dave
Could you pass on those magazines/journals titles, and any address,
phone, fax info you can round up. Getting hold of specialized
magazines can be a chore around here, unless you know exactly what
you want. Most often you end up phoning a distributor and trying to
convince them to do you a favour and put an issue in a nearby store.
<<loads of idle SGI machines>> Sacrilege! Those boobs that pass by the
usage time should be lobotomized if they weren't already <g>.
I'll probably end up with 3DSr2. I just hate to drop the money and not
end up with current software. Also, I don't think that the r2 package
is upgradable. All in all though, I'd rather have something than
nothing. Maybe that should be one of my first projects – something to
do with half a loaf of bread <g>.
You mentioned how people wont even look at logo work anymore. Have you
seen Typestry v2.0 on the Mac. That kind of explains it. All kinds of
special effects; motion blurs, particles, fog and Renderman. I think
it's around $200-250. I haven't used it myself, just saw part of a
demo. There is a windows v1.x awaiting update to the same feature set
as the mac. They also put as a "survival tips for 3d beginners" at
the end of their brochure that rendering takes a lot of time "so have
patience". I wonder if that's for the business crowd that has no idea
what awaits them and finally yields to panic and calls tech support
in a panic <g>.
I've been following the Hash threads and faxed a request for
information to them. Seems to be a real point of contention around
here. I'm surprised at how resistant some individuals are to it, but
if the package is as non-standard as they say I can understand. I
wonder when IK will show up through IPAS. Do you know if the upcoming
IPAS routines are r2 compatible.
>>people won't even look at logos<<
There are still plenty of folks making money doing logos. Although
typestry could conceivably take some of the lower end market away, it
still can't do a great deal of the things that are really sought
after in higher end logo animations. And who says logos have to be
just letters? It's the challenge of the animator and project manager
to come up with concepts and proposals that beat other bidders,
whether they have Typestry or SoftImage. It seems like some people
on this forum think a computer and software is all that makes
animations, gets contracts, and keeps clients happy.
Never thought there wasn't people still making logos. Any individual
that has the drive, vision and courage to start a business will
inevitably look (hopefully <g>) to having that achievement recognized
in a good logo animation created by someone who's artistry is
possessed of the same drive and vision.
My message was intended more for John, who is a student like myself
and is constrained by a more limited budget and circumstances. Also,
the vein of our conversation was more in keeping with experimentation
and having fun with tools that would likely be passed over by others
in the forum.
I could be wrong – usually am, that's why I follow along here <g>, but
I was told that Typestry could import objects, extrude them and then
use them, albeit somewhat crudely in a quicktime movie of a logo
animation. Obviously for $200 it wont do what 3DS will, but as you
pointed out for some markets and for some budgets, it may suffice.
I'll also add that it seemed it was more suited to usage in desktop
presentations – opening animation in a slide show or defining new
areas of concentration in those slideshows.
>>It seems like some people on this forum think a computer and software is all
that makes animations, gets contracts, and keeps clients happy. <<
I hope this wasn't meant for me. Everything in life begins with an individual
vision or interpretation. I guess no one truly knows what van gogh's vision
was, but it was there. Niels Bohr viewed the atom as a miniature solar system
and found a metaphor for his unconscious vision. Einstein stood on a bridge and
was disoriented by watching the water flow beneath the bridge and thought he &
the bridge were moving instead of the water – theory of general relativity.
I think that animation is moving in a similar manner to what happened with DTP.
At first it was a manual art which limited itself to those with specific skills
and training. Next came the software which lessened the need in general for
those physical skills. Soon many people were experimenting and producing a lot
of bad looking work, though some was quite good. The truth is that it still
takes the skill and vision of a designer to produce visually interesting work
in both fields.
Mike
I probably took your message the wrong way. I've been hearing from
several people lately that the broadcast market is narrowing and that
logos are less desireable to do than before. It's true to an extent,
I guess, but I've had good luck with a few of them and see at a
decent market, still.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Typestry finds its way onto TV, like
cable and local commercials. It's another 3D animation tool, and
will probably fit a certain production budget, too.
Perhaps I was reminding myself that the animator makes the show, not
the computer/software, because I've been test rendering so damned
much lately I haven't had too much opportunity to do good ol'
fashioned keyframing <g>. I keep thinking how much faster this would
all go with just one or ten more computers on my net <g>.
I agree, I can't afford 3DS, but I have used it, and it is nice,
after I go to a University, I am planning on learning unix, and
getting some practice on SGI machines a CAl State Long Beach, they
have a department for SGI training, through Wavefront, the software
company, and it is only $2000.00
What magazines do you read… also, how do you guys feel about the
AMIGA and it's 3d software, I am considering getting one to try some
graphics..
Grady:
I read..
monthly:
Computer Graphics World
Desktop Video World
Electronic Entertainment (good new mag.)
3D Artist (well, as often it comes out.. <g>)
New Media
Videography
Wired
PC Magazine
PC World
Windows Sources
Windows Magazine
on occasion:
Pixel (french, or something. $$)
Byte
Mac World
Mac User
Computer Artist
Publish
an occasional Amiga magazine
an occasional PC game type magazine
I read a lot. (I'm sure I forgot a few too.)
About the Amiga: I wouldn't get one. Your money is better spent (I
think) on a PC. (You can get a 486, with a 24bit color card, and
various graphics software for a reasonable price.) I don't see the
Amiga having a big future. If you have one, sure, get some software,
if you don't have enough to get anything on a different platform.
Lightwave is a good package, but is really about the same as 3DS in
cost, and the Amiga has less powerful computers to run on. (except
for the Screamer, which is only (I think) a renderer for Lightwave.)
John,
>Desktop Video World Where is possible to subscribe this magazine ?
Thx for your answer.
Bye PavelK
Pavel:
I am uploading today (it probably won't be available for a day or so) a text
file listing subscription info for a slew of 3D/Video related magazines I've
compiled — Desktop Video World included!
It'll be called 3D-MAGS.TXT.
Dave
Since the Screamer isn't really in release, it's tough to say what it will
become. Right now, the four 4400s are linked merely by Ethernet running
TCP/IP. Each processor runs its own copy of WinNT. Lots of memory, indeed.
I read about the same magazines ,except the MAC magazines… anyhow, the
AMIGA is a powerful machine, just under-rated, and isn't being plugged as much
as other Platforms, I think eventually the AMIGA will make a future for itself,
if It could get more vendors behind it…
GRady O. Williams III
Yes, sure, now tell me that Commodore will make an Amiga arround the
PowerPC and maybe your idea could work. (hey! that's a good idea! 🙂