#Autodesk Confirms NT 3ds
80 messages in this thread
"Change is always difficult, but without change there is stagnation,
and that's unacceptable to me. Onward into the future!"
So why not OS/2? (just curious, since all I ever got from MS was too
slow, too big, too buggy)
>> but without change there is stagnation, and that's unacceptable to
me. <<
Well you're certainly in the right business then! <G> Never a dull
moment.
>> Onward into the future! <<
Now its my turn to say, when you're right, you're right! 🙂
However, John, the path taken to the future might be wrong! There are other
available paths.
Judy
>> However, John, the path taken to the future might be wrong! <<
I can appreciate your concerns Judy, but I think your apprehension is a little
premature. Realistically the Yost Group is taking the logical step to maintain
its market position. So in that sense it is absolutely the correct course to
take. Unlike the jist of your misapprehension, I don't think DOS is going to
die in one fell swoop, realistically there has to be a transition as not all
apps have been ported to NT. But the writing is on the wall, and I am _really_
glad that they made the decision to go to NT instead of say Win95, which is
just another stop-gap before DOS's ultimate demise.
As Gary has often said, "you're gonna have to trust me on this one". And I do
trust that he is going to do the right thing to the best that he and his team
are able. I think down the road, you'll realise why people like David are so
vocally supportive, its because that trust has been maintained over the long
haul.
So hang in there Judy, not to worry, O.K.? 🙂
John
Basically what it comes down to for me is that I WILL NOT RUN NT. I do not like
Microsoft products – they are poorly written and designed and they are bug
filled. Their support is truly abysmal and they prefer to charge you for an
upgrade when all they are really offering is a patch – i.e. MS-DOS 6.0 ->MS-DOS
6.22 – a bug fix masquerading as an upgrade.
IBM is coming out with PC-DOS 7.0 next month and I will be upgrading to that.
For a 32 bit system I will either go with OS/2 or I will take a hard look at
the Russians' 32 Bit DOS.
Hopefully one day MVS/ESA will be available in a desktop version or on a
server!
Judy
Looks to me like your also not going to run 3DS. 🙂
At least, not going to and be competative…
Chris Norman
AM Labs
Well Judy, when I see all my favorite apps being ported to NT, I just figure
its about time, and they all seem to be making the transition now, so I figure
there's a pretty good reason. Nobody likes things as they stand. DOS is a
compromise as is Windows. NT should finally put all this to rest. If you
believe the predictions we'll all have 4 Gigs of RAM by the year 2010, who
knows what that will be like. And frankly I'm tired of the ineffiency of DOS
as much as I like its speed so whata ya gonna do? <g>
John
>>so whata ya gonna do?
Well, what I intend to do is bitch and moan about all the system resources I'll
have to wave bye-bye to (someone correct me if I'm wrong, please, but doesn't
NT take 12-16 megs. of memory for itself?),… and start planning to 'upgrade'.
Team Yost hasn't let me down yet, so I guess I'll just have to trust that
they'll do (are doing) the right thing, but please allow me to live with the
dread right up until they floor me w/r5; it'll be better that way.
John Stetzer
JWS
John,
<<(someone correct me if I'm wrong, please, but doesn't NT take 12-16 megs. of
memory for itself?),…>>
I'm running NT with five apps open right now and I have only 16 megs of ram.
NT runs comfortably in 12 megs. I don't know what will happen when you open
3DS NT and what kind of memory you will need, but right now if you are running
3DS comfortably then you can run NT comfortably.
Fred
>>then you can run NT comfortably
Probably true; my concern (which may be misplaced) is that I often bump up
against my memory ceiling, and unless NT pulls some significant memory magic
(which it may do), I have the feeling that I'll miss those resources. Again, it
may just be my preliminary concerns, and they may hold no water; as I said,
I'll just have to trust that G and co. will knock my socks off.
John Stetzer
JWS
>>>but right now if you are running 3DS comfortably then you can run NT
comfortably.<<<
But can you run NT AND 3DS comfortably? I doubt it. I am running NT 3.5 right
now, but use WFW so I don't throw away the extra 8MB RAM that NT needs above
Windows 4MB.
>> but please allow me to live with the dread right up until they floor me
w/R5… <<
If you say so, but it'll be alright… really! 🙂
John
>Well, what I intend to do is bitch and moan about all the system resources /
doesn't NT take 12-16 megs. of memory for itself?<
-=-=-=-=-=-=
SGI's take a whole lot more than that. Welcome to 32bit reality.
>> Welcome to 32bit reality.
You hit the nail on the head John. I for one am very happy that 3DS is moving
to NT. Gotta get myself a copy and start playing.
DM
>>SGI's take a whole lot more than that
But, unlike others, I have no intention to go SGI!!! :^). Mentally, I see many
benifits to going to NT; emotionally, I see myself waving bye-bye to 12-16 megs
of memory. At this point, most of what I know about NT is second hand. I fully
expect my emotional doubts to be laid to rest at Siggraph; till then, they'll
remain tightly clutched.
John Stetzer
JWS
>At this point, most of what I know about NT is second hand.
Actually, same here. (over at NT forum) I'll be getting it soon though.
Hopefully next month.
JNJ
>>I'll be getting it soon though
I may have to start spending some time on my friend's machine up the hall to
start getting a feel for it; he likes it.
>>NT forum
What the Go for that forum?
John Stetzer
JWS
Save my pennies for an SGI with Alias. I think that is where the game market is
going anyway!
Judy
>>>Save my pennies for an SGI with Alias. I think that is where the game market
is going anyway!<<<
To expensive. In an effort to cut costs I predict developers will start moving
to PC based systems like 3DS and Lightwave, which are already making inroads.
Tim <moving to PC BASED SYSTEMS> totally agree. P6 is just around the corner.
GLINT or something akin coming of age. These are no longer going to be PCs.
With NT and monster RAM scratching 3.5mips on P6 and being able to thread
multi-proc-chip configs.
Judy,
Save your money! Alias ain't were its at! Those boys are going be jumpin on the
3DS bandwagon, as soon as they start raising prices again, and SGI can't manage
all the mess they've inherited!
John
I have been playing around a bit with Alias and I am quite impressed with it
and its capabilities as a modeler. Also I just saw their new AXP for hair/fur
etc. and I was really impressed with that.
Also I think that the future for power-house computing will utlimately go to
RISC machines. I look for some great things from the Power PC – look at how the
Power Mac has taken off.
Judy
PS – By the way I was glad to hear that the judge has turned down the Microsoft
agreement with the justice department and re-opening the whole matter of their
actions in restraint of trade to judicial review!
NT!
Ever heard of a DEC ALPHA?
The multi-cpu boards are out there.
>> By the way I was glad to hear that the judge has turned down the Microsoft
agreement with the justice department… <<
Ah, aren't you an ex-IBMmer or was that someone else? <G>
Frankly NT looks like a really solid OS better than the Mac, as a matter of
fact I got a call today from a Mac Quadra buddy of mine. He's got an Avid setup
and is very interested in NT because of D/Vision, which is supposed to have a
full NLE at NAB. His other option is to go SGI because Avid is being ported
there, instead of the Power PC, which I find interesting. In Broadcast graphics
Mac's have been real popular but since the demise of the Quadra no one is
interested in the Power PC. Don't know why, but he said no one he'd talked to
was interested in doing video editing on an SGI either except the Scientific
community. So it looks like NT wins again, because he's switching from the
Quadra to a NT on I'm not sure what. The shape of things to come? <g>
John
Sorry John –
Nothing will ever make me have a Microsoft operating system. I do not
believe that Intel based systems are the future.
I do hope that the judge will break-up Microsoft and from the DC papers
this morning the judge is looking at that approach.
I do think that SGI and Alias is where a lot of game makers here in the
East seem to be interested in and prefer over 3DS.
I probably will add stuff for R4 – but I will not go to R5 and NT.
There is no product out there that is worth going to a Microsoft
operating system for!!! OS/2 is technically a superior product and
piece of code to NT – It is much of MVS philosophy in it and I have
always liked MVS more than any other operating system.
Judy
John:
>> interested in NT because of D/Vision, which is supposed to have a full NLE
>> at NAB.
I just heard this today too, they claim full D1 quality! It's becoming an
interesting world out there!
Greg Pyros
How do you access the Alias hair/fur? I just started a new job at a firm w/
Alias 6. But can't find all the goodies.
Ian.
Ian, you might want to take these kinds of questions over into the Alias forum.
– G
There were bound to be some people who got hostile when we announced that we
were going to NT.
The world is a big place. Big enough for all of us. I'm sorry that we're not
doing what you want us to do, but this is our path.
Path's for everyone…
– G
Hey Gary.
Sorry to say, but I am also disappointed as to your decision. You now have a
customer with a wait and see attitude, other than one with a waiting
checkbook….
JimmyG
NT! great choice. (like I doubted otherwise. <g>) I missed the first post on
the thread. Any announced dates yet?
JNJ
The official word was "around the end of the year", whatever that means. <g>
– G
>> Save my pennies for an SGI with Alias. I think that is where the game
>> market is going anyway!
I don't think so, Judy. We have an SGI Indio2 Extreme with Alias that makes
a damn fine mail server. 3DS does everything we need for developing for the
Sony Playstation. On NT (with a 3D API licensed from SGI… boy are they
gonna regret that one!), 3DS will be the cat's ass.
– Dan / n-Space, Inc.
>> SGI Indio2 Extreme with Alias that makes a damn fine mail server.
ROFL !!!
Michael
John: <4 gigs of RAM> ROFL you could really play it close to the edge and not
save your changes for months at a time…. and entire project up in volatile
RAM…. how about adding a RAM DISK to that and just go an entire year "LIVING
ON THE EDGE"
Jeffrey,
<4 gigs of RAM> I think the scariest part is how big the OS system will be! You
know when I started with computers, the whold OS took up on 2k. 2K for an
entire operating system, and frankly DOS 6.2 doesn't do a whole lot more useful
stuff. Oh well, I guess somebody's got to keep those programmers off the
streets, but wouldn't it make more sense to keep them employed doing IPAS
stuff. <g>
John
John, I remember working on a science dataflow animation problem regarding how
Teradactyles managed to fly. I think we had 64k mem and went home at night with
50-100 sheets of print-outs… NOW THAT WAS WHAT I CALL FUN (uh-huh). With
regard to programmers, well, I've never seen them as a threat to society at
large. Granted, once in a while one of them goes off and does something not
nice<LOL> but mostly they seem to sit around grumbling in a terrible posture
(sort of almost parallel to the ground, head perpendicular to their spine, arms
outstretched and type really fast)//// Oh, I'm just taking a break and being
silly, so I'll stop typing and try finishing one more scene.
Jeffrey,
I've had more than a few years of programming but it was all business apps
related. I do enjoy it, and when I have the time I mess around. Which is why I
felt I could make some fun of it. Sometimes I'm even envious of the really
talented ones but I really like what I do best, and can't imagine not being
able to do it.
John
So have you got your NT ordered yet? <g>
John, <have you got your NT ordered yet?> Well, here's my plan: Going to order
a P6/128mgRAM 3rd Quarter, just in time for fall upgrade roll-outs. Then it and
my other system will see each other via NT. I also want to have a good idea
where 3-DS will be situated with regard to video cards and GLINT (or something
like it). While other apps are still not upgraded to NT, I can dual boot. These
are significant changes coming out way! Jeffrey
Jeffrey,
<< With regard to programmers,… mostly they seem to sit around grumbling in a
terrible posture (sort of almost parallel to the ground, head perpendicular to
their spine, arms outstretched and type really fast)>>
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
So, you've been been there, too? I tried writing code in Atlanta nearly a
decade ago, but had to give it up because I couldn't "assume the position" for
long periods of time. When I read your description, my mind's eye immediately
conjured up images of JKJ who, on occasional visits to my lair, will drag out
the adjustable office chair on wheels, kick off his loafers, drop the keyboard
on his lap, rest the back of his read on the top edge of the backrest and his
sacrum on the front edge of the seat, and launch into a frenzy of keystrokes
the sound of which rivals that of half a deck of plastic playing cards flapping
on the spokes of a speeding bicycle. But then, he IS a power programmer. <BG>
…B.
Yup— uh-huh. Can't tell you how many programmers I've seen defying gravity,
syntax and human logic with their 01 ways. Thankfully, computer artists can
find a wide array of software that puts us back in front of the blank surface,
struggling with our usual monsters. Great fun, the whole thing… a hard
fractal exploding rain is falling in one of my scenes. Jeffrey
Bruce:
Loved your description of JKJ! I can picture him now! :^)
Greg Pyros
<<For a 32 bit system I will either go with OS/2 or I will take a hard look at
the Russians' 32 Bit DOS.>>
From an article in yesterday's SF Chronicle, on why IBM should abandon OS/2: In
a recent poll of PC users, they ranked operating systems in this order (of
desirability/usability): 1.) Windows 3.11, 2.) Windows 95 (!), 3.) Windows NT,
4.) MS-DOS, and 5.) OS/2.
OS/2 ranked behind a product not even available yet (Win 95), *and* the dying
DOS! Regardless of your or our personal feelings, the name of the game here is
compatibility and standards with the rest of the computing world — and OS/2
simply isn't cutting it.
— Jon
"From an article in yesterday's SF Chronicle, on why IBM should abandon OS/2:
In a recent poll of PC users, they ranked operating systems in this order (of
desirability/usability): 1.) Windows 3.11, 2.) Windows 95 (!), 3.) Windows NT,
4.) MS-DOS, and 5.) OS/2.
OS/2 ranked behind a product not even available yet (Win 95), *and* the dying
DOS! Regardless of your or our personal feelings, the name of the game here is
compatibility and standards with the rest of the computing world — and OS/2
simply isn't cutting it. "
You actually read AND believe those kinds of polls? Amazing (to say the least)
Jack
Judy
If you are interested in an alternative to MS, search the library for TAOS
Rich
NT is not slow and not buggy (although it is a bit large). Regarding
porting decisions… I suppose that Autodesk feels that NT has a
better chance at providing the market opportunity Autodesk wants for
the future.
>>NT is not slow and not buggy (although it is a bit large). Regarding porting
decisions… I suppose that Autodesk feels that NT has a better chance at
providing the market opportunity Autodesk wants for the future<<
What choice does Autodesk have, LightWave will have SGI, NT & Windows versions
out shortly and at a much better price.
Jim
Lightwave is the last thing I'd ever worry about.
– G
>> Lightwave is the last thing I'd ever worry about.
You are absolutely Right!
But, PLEASE, make 3DS better then SoftImage NT
and IPASes better then Minerva plug-ins.
Good Luck,
Alex, Video International
Yes! I hope the new 3ds and Ipas' blow away SoftImage NT, LightWave 3.5,
Crystal Topas and any other renderer. And I'm sure it will because Autodesk and
the Yost Group are awsome, and will now and forever rule the 3D market!
Jason
>>Yes! I hope the new 3ds and Ipas' blow away SoftImage NT, LightWave 3.5,
Crystal Topas and any other renderer. And I'm sure it will because Autodesk and
the Yost Group are awsome, and will now and forever rule the 3D market! <<
Jason, with all due respect, you can't be serious, SoftImage is by far the best
animation package I have ever used or seen. I have also used Alias Power
Animator. Yes, these programs are very expensive and the SGI workstations are
also very expensive, but I work on one all day long and I am sorry to burst the
bubble, but the SGI combined with these software packages are by far the best
available. Don't get me wrong, I have had a PC for years and I like it too,
but there is a reason this other stuff is expensive.
Jim
<<SoftImage is by far the best animation package I have ever used or seen…>>
Jim, for me, Softimage is, without question, the buggiest piece of software
I've ever seen. In the last two years, I've gotten it to crash literally 3
dozen times. I can be doing something as prosaic as changing the texture on an
object, and BAM! it blows me right out to UNIX. The damnable thing about it is,
when Softimage *knows* about these bugs, they can't seem to fix them without
creating new bugs, and when we (Sega's 3D dudes) point out repeatable bugs that
we've seen for *weeks*, the Softimage guys say, "Huh… You're the first people
to ever show those to us." They've *got* to be kidding.
If Microsoft is doing a "straight port" of the code to NT, heaven help them.
I'm astonished as to how ILM or other big effects house can actually do
production work with software this fragile. (I also haven't said anything about
tutorials that are about 10% the length of 3DS's and of SI's hidden and
counter-intuitive features for which you need trained SI operators to teach
you.) Everyone I've ever spoken to about Softimage agreed that you simply
cannot learn this software from a manual — you have to have an experienced
user teach you.
<<…there is a reason this other [SGI] stuff is expensive.>>
Yeah — it's because, up until now, the companies have been able to get away
with it by suckering high-end users ("if it's expensive, it's got to be good!")
There's also a reason that Microsoft just cut the price of Softimage to 1/3rd
of its original cost — because they are discovering that they can't get away
with these ridiculous prices any more. (An effects supervisor at ILM told me
that he simply cannot get management to look at low-end 3D platforms,
completely for political reasons — ILM has spent millions on SGIs and
Softimage, and no one is willing to admit that they might've wasted all that
money on a bad decision, nor suffer the PR flack with the strategic
partnerships that would result.)
The *only* software advantages Softimage has over 3DS are IK with function
curves, working on spline-based models, and ray-tracing capability (which,
SGI's notwithstanding, can boost rendering times ridiculously.) These features
will undoubtedly be available for 3DS users in the not-too-distant future. On
the other hand, there's an enormous number of things I can do with 3DS and
Plug-ins faster (even on a PC) and better than on Softimage. If Microsoft did a
straight port of Softimage, feature for feature, and sold it for the same cost
as 3DS, it would still be less capable software overall — and frankly, I
wouldn't waste my money.
One final note: remember Intuit and Quicken. All of Bill's money and all of
Bill's men still couldn't sell MS-Money…
— Jon
Since 3DS is going to NT will it then support Risc,MIps, as well as intel based
chips.
Thanks!
Will
>Lightwave is the last thing I'd ever worry about.
LOL
"NT is not slow and not buggy (although it is a bit large). Regarding porting
decisions… I suppose that Autodesk feels that NT has a better chance at
providing the market opportunity Autodesk wants for the future."
Hmm, hmm, and hmm again. If it isn't slowing down the system and it isn't buggy
and it isn't huge, then it can't be Microsoft. <BG>
In my days I just had to come to the inevitable conclusion, that EVERYTHING
those guy make is buggier than heck, actually, the only half-way decent stuff
they sell is stuff THEY didn't develop themselves. After all, aren't they the
guys that came up with a wonderful idea (Windows) that turns any ordinary
Pentium into a 486? he,he. Do yourself a favor and check out if the same
floating point debakel from Windows was caried "onwards ho" to the NT platform,
if it is, drop it like a hot potato…
But then this is only an opinion, and I might be wrong…
Jack
>> In my days I just had to come to the inevitable conclusion, that EVERYTHING
those guy make is >> buggier than heck,
Could be
>> actually,the only half-way decent stuff they sell is stuff THEY didn't
develop themselves.
That's EXACTLY the case:
NT was developed by the team hired from Digital
(that's the only reason, why it supports Alpha AXP).
Regards
"That's EXACTLY the case:
NT was developed by the team hired from Digital
(that's the only reason, why it supports Alpha AXP)."
Well, there might be hope after all….
Jack
>> Well, there might be HOPE after all….
Of course, there is always some hope:
(No offence) but doesn't your very name suggest so?
Back to serious conversation:
you refer to $700 price for NT Server as "expensive" –
are you kidding?
Thank to this DIRT CHEAP pricing,
such a huge company as Novell can go broke.
Regards,
Alex, Video International
"Of course, there is always some hope:
(No offence) but doesn't your very name suggest so?"
Only a suicidal would claim that… <BG>
"Thank to this DIRT CHEAP pricing,
such a huge company as Novell can go broke."
Well, DIRT CHEAP in my book is something like $79 for OS/2. Anyways, who cares,
which of the 2 major companies scr%#ing us since years goes broke first? <g>
(They both deserve it IMO) So you see, I DO agree….
Jack
>If it isn't slowing down the system and it isn't buggy and it isn't huge, then
it can't be Microsoft. <BG> <
hehe, but they aren't pushing NT! NT's popularity is certainly not due to MS's
efforts, but from end users. Lots of happy people over in the NT forum, and
not just server types.. been there 3-4 months now.
JNJ
"Lots of happy people over in the NT forum, and not just server types.. been
there 3-4 months now."
Much as I hate to admit it: Will see ya there…
Jack
>Much as I hate to admit it: Will see ya there…
Welcome aboard. 🙂
FWIW- Microsoft has dropped their requirement that Windows 95 labeled programs
needs to run on NT (like they had origionally stated). I think that's pretty
typical of them, and thought you all might be interested in letting MS know
that NT support of your favorite programs is a very good thing.
Adobe, for example, says Photoshop will run on NT, but it's not a true port.
Just a win32 program. Some parts are multithreaded but not everything.
(important in dual processor systems.) Alpha and other RISC support was also
not planned. Just Win95. (As I understand my discussions from Adobe tech
support.) Interested parties may want to check it out.
BTW Jack, NT comes on CD. 🙂 The NT install medium of choice. It's something
like 80MB. 🙂 (32bit code is bigger than 16 in both disk and memory
requirements) Good thing hd prices are falling like a rock.
"FWIW- Microsoft has dropped their requirement that Windows 95 labeled
programs needs to run on NT (like they had origionally stated). I
think that's pretty typical of them, and thought you all might be
interested in letting MS know that NT support of your favorite
programs is a very good thing. " Adobe, for example, says Photoshop
will run on NT, but it's not a true port. Just a win32 program. Some
parts are multithreaded but not everything. (important in dual
processor systems.) Alpha and other RISC support was also not
planned. Just Win95. (As I understand my discussions from Adobe
tech support.) Interested parties may want to check it out."
See? See? SEEEE? <VBG> That's the thing MS stands for in mind, get the
money, let'em hang from then on. We'll do it later (more code, more
bugs, more money) First we sell'em on the future though! Slandering
aside, the problem I see with NT, is not that it is their best
version of Windows, but that it is their LEAST supportedd one…
What's the use of the OS if there's nothing running on it that takes
advantage of it? With the above , they just made my case again.
Well, anyhows, it does seem to run the "old" stuff (though slower) and
I'm writing this from within my WINCIM running under NT, didn't waste
much time, did I? <BG>
"BTW Jack, NT comes on CD. 🙂 The NT install medium of choice.
It's something like 80MB. 🙂 (32bit code is bigger than 16 in both
disk and memory requirements) Good thing hd prices are falling like a
rock."
I took a look at the screen saver (pipes,GL) and couldn't help but
muse about the OS (he,he), the user process's demands probably have
to go through just as many "pipes" before they finally get taken care
of, but then, they also have to back through'em. A great visual
representation of what the OS does 😉
Now, if 3DS has to migrate, migrate it will, and who cares anyhow.? If
worst comes to worst, I'll just have to find some Paint program (any
paint program) that was written to take advantage of the OS and I can
always use NT just for that and 3DS… Meanwhile, I'll run the old
piece of $#%@ Windows 3.1, just so I get at least the speed I was
used to see my apps do.
>> I'll just have to find some Paint program (any paint program) that
was written to take advantage of the OS… <<
Well my favorite paint program, Ron Scott's QFX, is being ported to NT
and it sounds even better. Here's a guy who never even bothered to do
a port to Windows, and is now doing an NT version. FWIW.
"Well my favorite paint program, Ron Scott's QFX, is being ported to NT and it
sounds even better."
Lemme know when it's there… (don't even know wht it is, to be honest….)
(((no sarcasm intended, just for the rest of u guys)))
Jack
>> Lemme know when it's there… (don't even know wht it is, to be honest…)
Its a combination of Corel Draw, Alta Mira Composer, PhotoStyler and
compositing like Video Post all bundled into one for about the price
you expect to pay if you got them all at a discount. It does a miriad
of special effects including Warps and Glows. Its got macros for
everything which can be saved and run and applied over a series of
images. One of its most powerful features is the ease with which you
can create Alpha channel or masks. If you go to Siggraph, you can
meet the man who wrote it. Ron Scott. Quite a character. A total DOS
die hard… until NT. The only thing it currently lacks in a
Photoshop plug in feature, but even so, its the 3DS of paint packages
IMO. NT is in the works. I suspect it will be shown at Siggraph
although no official announcement has been made.
>SEEEE?
hehe, yeah, I released that message hesitantly. 🙂 Especially to
you, and having Judy look on. <G> That was exactly what you all were
going on about.. but that's life, I guess. Thought it was important
though. MS certainly isn't perfect, but I still like 'em. Especially
after putting OpenGL in NT. 🙂 They really impressed me there.
>if worst comes to worst, I'll just have to find some Paint program
(any paint program) that was written to take advantage of the OS and
I can always use NT just for that and 3DS… <
Picture Publisher has the best NT support, Photoshop also runs faster
on Intel, but no Alpha. PP has Alpha, etc. All PP's versions are in
a wide beta, but you can get in easily. Just have a 486/66 and
32MB. But the versions of PP are only 4 at the time.
" MS certainly isn't perfect, but I still like 'em. Especially after putting
OpenGL in NT. 🙂 They really impressed me there."
OK (and I mean it!), except for:" the GL part", since (as usual), it isn't
their idea.
"Picture Publisher has the best NT support, Photoshop also runs faster on
Intel, but no Alpha. PP has Alpha, etc. All PP's versions are in a wide beta,
but you can get in easily. Just have a 486/66 and 32MB. But the versions of
PP are only 4 at the time."
Looks like there might be a chance. Belive it or not, I personally like ULEAD's
Image Pals 2, it sure give you a run for the money.
Jack
Since I last posted that message, I've found many programs going NT
all over the place. Stuff like PhotoMorph, etc. I doubt you'll have
to search very hard for useful NT programs when R5 comes out.. they
should be in abundance. NT's on fire. (without MS's help, IMO)
Jack,
>> See? See? SEEEE? <VBG> That's the thing MS stands for in mind, get
>> the money, let'em hang from then on. We'll do it later (more
>> code, more bugs, more money) First we sell'em on the future
>> though! Slandering aside, the problem I see with NT, is not that
>> it is their best version of Windows, but that it is their LEAST
>> supportedd one… What's the use of the OS if there's nothing
>> running on it that takes advantage of it? With the above , they
>> just made my case again.
I agree with you in principal. They generally have superior products
(mainstream) so I support their products by buying them. I've never had
occasion, though, where I felt they were just taking my money and then ignoring
me.
OTOH you are absolutely right about NT. They don't support it nearly
as much as it should be. It is extremely more advanced than Win95
and yet has less market share! (A beta with more market share than a
released product? Believe it!) I personally wish they'd drop the
whole Win95 fiasco and concentrate solely on NT, but it ain't gonna
happen.
>> Well, anyhows, it does seem to run the "old" stuff (though slower)
>> and I'm writing this from within my WINCIM running under NT,
>> didn't waste much time, did I? <BG>
Let me know if my previous post to you doesn't fix the "slowness."
>> I took a look at the screen saver (pipes,GL) and couldn't help but
>> muse about the OS (he,he), the user process's demands probably
>> have to go through just as many "pipes" before they finally get
>> taken care of, but then, they also have to back through'em. A
>> great visual representation of what the OS does 😉
Yes, that's true, there are a lot of layers that have to be passed through, but
as processors get faster and faster what difference will that make? I
understand the P6 is about to be released…
Marc
"OTOH you are absolutely right about NT. They don't support it nearly
as much as it should be. It is extremely more advanced than Win95
and yet has less market share! (A beta with more market share than a
released product? Believe it!) I personally wish they'd dop the
whole Win95 fiasco and concentrate solely on NT, but it ain't gonna
happen."
Damn, I hate it when people agree <VBG> Yup, you're right, they should
push NT over Windows anytime.
"Let me know if my previous post to you doesn't fix the "slowness.""
What previous post? (seriously, I didn't get one, but then, I'm working my way
thru the messages right now, mayhaps it's coming up)
"Yes, that's true, there are a lot of layers that have to be passed
through, but as processors get faster and faster what difference will
that make? I understand the P6 is about to be released…"
Yow, that's just the point I'm trying to make since day one: Since we
screw up the software, you get to buy the bigger processor…
If those guys would realize the full potential of the processor, we
wouldn't even be giving them any gripe…
Jack,
>> Yow, that's just the point I'm trying to make since day one: Since
>> we screw up the software, you get to buy the bigger processor…
I think "screw up" is a little strong. I think it's just a race.
Software (OSs in particular) are almost always trying to catch up to
the hardware. The only time I can think of when this wasn't really
true was when we had Win30 running on 386s. Then SW was ahead of
HW. Since SW is lagging the only cure you have is to make it work
better (read faster) by buying faster hardware. Which then puts the
SW even further behind, ad infintum…
>> If those guys would realize the full potential of the processor, we
>> wouldn't even be giving them any gripe…
I think you're asking the HW and SW vendors to work together. MS has
enough FTC problems without opening *that* can of worms.
Jack, Jack, Jack…
Freedom of speech is a wonderful concept, don't you agree? You pay
your $9.95 every month, and you get to post anything you want,
anywhere you want in the always open and rarely censored, wide-open
world of CompuServe.
But I've gotta ask, are you still lost? This is the Autodesk 3D Studio
section of the Autodesk Multimedia Forum, not the "Whining and
Complaining Because I Don't Know How to Configure My Computer to Run
Anything But DOS Programs" Forum.
You're not making any points here. Nobody cares that you're fixated
and anally compulsive re: Microsoft products. Important people with
real jobs who have the power to make big financial and corporate
decisions have announced that 3D Studio r.5 will run on NT. They
didn't decide on NT to antagonize DOS fanatics, or, more
specifically, to confound you. It was a carefully calculated business
decision based on existing and emerging market forces in the rapidly
changing computer industry. Whether it will be a good decision based
on sound analysis is not at issue here. What is at issue here is the
decision has been made, and no amount of whining and complaining is
going to affect that decision.
What's the problem? Something new to learn? Too complicated? Too
scarey? You can always go on down to Computerland or a local
community college and enroll in a course. Buy some books. Read.
Learn. Apply what you learn. That's how we make scarey and
complicated things work well for us in the wonderful world of
computers.
No, I don't work for Microsoft, and, regretfully, I don't own any of
their stock. I have used their products for several years tho', and
find them to be acceptable for what I do. And isn't that what's key
here, Jack? Using whatever it takes to do the job?
Look at all the messages you've sent railing against Microsoft
products and compare them with those agreeing with you. How many
allies have you made? If they are as patently bad as you purport them
to be, why are you (and Judy) alone in your total disdain for
Microsoft products? They work fine for me and my friends, and
apparently for the vast majority of those using them on this forum
and for those comprising the huge installed user base. But as I am
sure you well know, they're not idiot proof. Nothing is. Not even
DOS. Software has to be installed and configured correctly, and
optionally tweaked for maximum performance (i.e. your NT
installation). How do you explain the unprecedented growth, success
and wealth of Microsoft if their products are as inherently BAD as
you espouse? Clever marketing? Connections with the mob? A deal with
Satan himself? Not in this world, Jack.
So, what's it gonna be, Jack? Are you going to continue with your
verbal diarrhea until nobody replies to anything you post? Martin
gently admonished you, Jonas has asked you to stop, and Gary himself,
one of the nicest people I am priviledged to know, asked you very
politely in light of your unsolicited and unrelenting assault to
"take it outside." Yet here you are still. Your sophomoric tirade
against Microsoft products and Autodesk's announced move to NT is
unjustified and misplaced on this forum.
Now, please, pay close attention… If your problem is with Microsoft,
take it up with Microsoft. If your problem is with Bob Bennett's
announcement, take it up with Bob Bennett. Neither of them will be
found here on this forum, so neither of them will have the
opportunity to enlighten you or allay your prejudices.
Please quit whining and complaining. Your constant negative drivel is
as welcome as a dose head lice. I guess the kindest way to say this
without resorting to a full frontal personal attack is, if you can't
offer any help or post anything constructive, don't go away mad,
Jack, just go away.
My $.02 worth + a little. Not expecting a reply, I won't respond to
one …B.
<<…sophomoric tirade…>>
I scurried for my dictionary on that one:
sophomoric: (adj) conceited and overconfident of knowledge although
actually poorly informed and immature.
This is a great word and describes precisely my own sentiments towards
the recent "Mummy, nobody loves me" messages. I'll have to use it
more often.
David "B comes after A" Gould
>>sophomoric: (adj) conceited and overconfident of knowledge although
actually poorly informed and immature.<<
Nice job, your dictionary.
Some dark corner of my brain recalls that it is from Greek "foolish
man". But that was a long time ago. Sorry I have no local reference
to check.
Thanks for the breath of fresh air (as usual), Bruce.
-Alan
"Jack, Jack, Jack…"
Bruce, Bruce, Bruce… <BG>
"Freedom of speech is a wonderful concept, don't you agree? You pay
your $9.95 every month, and you get to post anything you want,
anywhere you want in the always open and rarely censored, .."
What's that "rarely censored" deal? Do u know something I don't? <G>
"But I've gotta ask, are you still lost? This is the Autodesk 3D
Studio section of the Autodesk Multimedia Forum, not the "Whining and
Complaining Because I Don't Know How to Configure My Computer to Run
Anything But DOS Programs" Forum."
Now, I don't really want to shine, but really, I think I can probably "out do"
you when it comes to that…
"It was a carefully calculated business decision based on existing and emerging
market forces in the rapidly changing computer industry."
Ignoring the fact that NT is THE LEAST supported base out here…<teeeny
liiitlllee weeny greeen>
"What's the problem? Something new to learn? Too complicated? Too scarey? You
can always go on down to Computerland or a local community college and enroll
in a course. Buy some books. Read. Learn. Apply what you learn. That's how we
make scarey and complicated things work well for us in the wonderful world of
computers."
he, he, I love it, beginner talking (from own experience) to master… Need I
say more? <VBG>
" And isn't that what's key here, Jack? Using whatever it takes to do the job?"
If that's all it takes for you… (it's like saying: A Yougo is good enough,
there's no need for BMW's)
" How many allies have you made?"
Why do you think I out here to make allies? I don't need "beginner's" group
support, I'm stating my opinion, and that SHOULD BE OK… (Unless u're PC
correct and don't tolerate that…)
"they're not idiot proof. Nothing is. Not even DOS."
No kidding… (I like it when people make my point) <MBG>
"Software has to be installed and configured correctly, and optionally tweaked
for maximum performance (i.e. your NT installation)."
No sh*? Sherlock, why do you think I got the 4 volume resource kit? (incuding 6
disks, one CD)…
" How do you explain the unprecedented growth, success and wealth of Microsoft
if their products are as inherently BAD as you espouse? "
I don't, the sales speak for themselves, NT has the lowest known base….
"A deal with Satan himself?"
Now, that's something I'd know about… <BG>
" Not in this world, Jack."
You bet your "soul" an that one…
"So, what's it gonna be, Jack? Are you going to continue with your verbal
diarrhea until nobody replies to anything you post?"
>> Spelling<<
Hmmm, where does that leave you? <MBG>
"Jonas has asked you to stop, and Gary himself, one of the nicest people I am
priviledged to know, asked you very politely in light of your unsolicited and
unrelenting assault to "take it outside." Yet here you are still. Your
sophomoric tirade against Microsoft products and Autodesk's announced move to
NT is unjustified and misplaced on this forum."
Jonas didn't (he knows what he's doing, he doesn't get involved, as you do),
Gary did, and If you read my message to him, I was gonna quit the subject, but
then, there's always guys like you, keeping it up….
"Now, please, pay close attention… If your problem is with Microsoft, take it
up with Microsoft. If your problem is with Bob Bennett's announcement, take it
up with Bob Bennett….."
Ohhh pleasse, come on, are you electing yourself to be "speaker of truth and
nothing but"?
If you'd like to be a censor, get a job with the religious right….
"I guess the kindest way to say this without resorting to a full frontal
personal attack is, if you can't offer any help or post anything constructive,
don't go away mad, Jack, just go away."
Well spoken for a REAL thinker… (do I need to say more, mayhabs the
"tolerant" bit etc?)
Look, I don't know who the heck you are, but then I don't care either, why
should I? You're the kind of people that are "mainstream" right, even though
they don't know what the heck they're talking about. I haven't seen any
argument in your post, all YOU do is attack, offer no counter argument, except
for emotional BS… Sorry you made me say it, but you asked for it…
Jack
Would this also mean a RISC, MIPS, AXP, & POWER PC versions of 3DS.
When I install software for our NT servers we have an option of intel or the
list above.
Will
"Would this also mean a RISC, MIPS, AXP, & POWER PC versions of 3DS."
WOW, a whopping 4 platforms, do you know by any chance how many there are for
UNIX and its spinoffs? (all proven and time tested ones, btw)
Anyways, I think 3DS WILL be nicer to USE on NT than on DOS (after all you can
go back and forth between apps). I doubt though, that this is going to be the
fastest OS to install it under. MS code is usually huge and not optimized.
Damn, now I've done it again, I keep forgetting that this isn't MS code but
Digital's, let's hope that they do better.
Jack
>>>WOW, a whopping 4 platforms, do you know by any chance how many there are
for UNIX and its spinoffs? (all proven and time tested ones, btw)
Anyways, I think 3DS WILL be nicer to USE on NT than on DOS (after all you can
go back and forth between apps). I doubt though, that this is going to be the
fastest OS to install it under. MS code is usually huge and not optimized.
Damn, now I've done it again, I keep forgetting that this isn't MS code but
Digital's, let's hope that they do better.<<<
These arguments are reminding me of the Atari ST vs. Amiga arguments from 10
years ago. And they are starting to be as childish or opinionated.