CompuServe Thread

Don you suprise me. >> I also feel that this is a part of the whole computer industry and was represented in proper proportion. << So does this mean that at a pharmacuetical convention, there should be an area set aside for home production of cocaine? Or that at NAB there should be an area set aside for Child pornography? >> As far as the male/female thing is concerned I disagree with you totally for this reason. I believe that if it were men exploiting women then you'd be right but in the cases of these vendors they were being run, managed and entrepreneured by women, not men. << Your argument is actually self defeating. Men exploiting women or women exploiting women, it makes no difference. Its still exploitation. We fought a civil war over men exploiting men. And while I think that there were many Southern Gentlemen who took good care of their slaves, it doesn't justify the practice. Even in South Africa where it wasn't a question of slavery but of Apartheid, the policy of the U.S. was to stand against it and as a result the pratice was finally dismantled. It comes down to human dignity and opportunity which if not respected leads to the purges of Stalinist Russia or the massacres of the Kamer Rouge in Cambodia, or the Holocaust in Nazi Germany. >> If anything this was a case of women degenerating men and women as both sexes were represented in the collection of CD's displayed. << O.K. so if this is the case why would you want to see this practice condoned or continued? I believe in the general concept of a free market system too, but I think (hope) you'd agree that there are many things that I wouldn't want to see legalized in the interest of "a free" market. In fact there are many areas in which we do not have a free market, like weapons, certain kinds of technology and drugs to name a few. Just because some women are willing to sell their bodies on street corners or for CD ROM titles doesn't mean its a victimless crime. Typically these women suffer from low self esteem and a troubled upbringing, and what this practice does is exploit their low self esteem. And with women just like with men, there are certain people who will for a variety of reasons take advantage and exploit these people. The practice should not be condoned as it denegrates our collective value and self perception. Which can ultimately lead to dictarorships, purges and massacres. I'm am amazed and astounded by how fast humanity can degenerate into anarchy, as witnessed in Bosnia with people that had lived side by side in relative peace. If the underpinnings of human value are compromised this becomes the end result. This is not a direct correlation to the production and manufacture of CD ROM's with explicit graphic content but is indicative of the delicate balance of the respect for our own humanity. Which, instead of exploitation, requires sensitive nuturing as history shows us how quickly our self perception can be self defeating. And as people who work in Media, it our social responsibility to stand against this exploitation. Yes I know its an uphill battle, and its tough to make a living in Video/Animation as an independent without succuming to the temptation to take advantage of a market which is in high demand, but I for one will hold the line and hope that along with other's we can make a difference. -JE

Michele, >> I think you're right, the women in the industry will have to speak up, but the men will probably support them if they make a stand. << It may be even more complicated than that. As Don mentioned, it was women promoting and producing these CD's. Which means that the battle will be fought not men against women but women and men against women and men. But I do feel that if women don't speak up it will continue unabated. It is interesting to watch as women continue to enter the "male dominated" arena, that of course they approach it all in the same way men do, ie: female producers exploiting females the way some men did when it was their exclusive domain. I personally find the "battle of the sexes" abhorent and I think that it will be even more important that thinking men and women stand together to fight against any kind of exploitation whether it be perpetuated against women or men. And while my views may be considered idealistic, ie: there will always be exploitation, I think that if society takes a position of low tolerance for it, that it can be minimized, which would at least discourage displaying graphic material on CD ROM's at Comdex. Karl Marx predicted that capitalism would lead to decadence and debauchery and while he was wrong about many things he certainly seemed to understand the predisposition of capitalism toward that. The fact that capitalism has won out over communism doesn't mean we can ignore the inherent evils of either system. And the reason I mention this is that I see the profit motive driving the marketing of CD ROM's of graphic exploitive content. >> Right now it feels like we're a bunch of eight-year-olds dancing around the maypole… << Well you certainly don't sound like an "eight year old" but I get what you're saying. <g> My comment to Don to which you responded, was that in fact I think that NAB and probably Siggraph are mature industries. I know that Broadcast is because its considered the "Fifth Estate". My experience in this industry has been through the revolution caused by cable. During my study at Univerisity, one of my courses was on Media and Social Responsibility. At the time the Networks were in control and had social guidelines with regard to content and substance of programming. They took it upon themselves to develope these guidelines for two reasons. One was because the FCC licensed the "public" airwaves and as such the FCC felt Broadcast had a social responsibility to the public. The other reason was that they wanted to develope credibility with the public, much as the "Fourth Estate" has enjoyed. With the advent of cable this view of social responsibility has radically changed. The point here being, that as a result the Networks now have to compete with the socially irresponsible programming now being propagated on cable, and we are now witnessing the effect. So while "Broadcast" and its event of the year, NAB has been restrained, in coming years it is quite possible that it will follow suit with content of the nature displayed at Comdex. I think its going to be up to the industry to determine its own standards and that I hope that it will choose not to follow suit, but money and ratings are a powerful motivator and if the industry doesn't take a stand we'll be seeing more exploitive graphic content. And Siggraph will follow as a logical extension and representative of Broadcast, especially as "character animation" becomes more prevalent. Looking at the future as depicted in many new shows, human value is portrayed as there for the purchasing, not a very optimistic portent of things to come. A trend I hope the public will reject. There is hope as shows like Star Trek TNG are quite popular which explore and develop the concept of human value and dignity. It will be interesting to see how the storyline of "Voyager" develops, whether it will follow "Deep Space Nine" and the "everything can be bought" philosophy or will follow TNG tradition. I have a fascination with Television as I see it as a reflection of the values of the masses, either by design or desire. Stay tuned… <g> -JE

>>>I would hate to see a child molester get a hold of us.<<< Hey….Leave Microsoft out of this! <g> Murph'

So at some point, we get to start talking about Beavis and Butthead, right? 🙂 Huh huh heh heh.

Thanks John, on reflection it looks as though I got on my soapbox a bit, but the sentiment is real. -JE

>>Its just another case of humanity denegrading humanity, which hurts us all. And I disagree when people make the claim its not hurting anybody. Its hurting the collective conscious, and denegrating our self esteem as people.<< … >I for one will hold the line and hope that along with other's we can make a difference.< … I'm with you there. ————————————————— There is a celebration of D-Day about to happen. I take it as a celebration of victory of freedom over a vicious dictatorial system. I also am willing to defend the right of others to believe and act as they choose within legal limitations. But I now feel that some people feel that it is my duty to respect and defend their rights but they need not reciprocate and, indeed, feel that it is their duty to impose their beliefs on me, and others (for our own good, naturally). To me that looks, smells, and feels like a potential dictatorship. And the first thing that one should recall about dictatorships is that nice guys end up dead. Dictators are guys like Stalin, Hitler, Kernal KaDaffy of Libya and that guy in Uganda. If some people want to have some fun, and they are fully consenting adults, that is their business even if sex is part of their fun. If you feel it is degrading (or whatever), then don't you do it. I call that freedom of choice.