#Pennello news
57 messages in this thread
To all Penello prospective purchasers:
In case you haven't heard, Xaos just lowered the price of Penello from $995 to
$395, effective immediately!
If you've been waiting to get this product, now may be the time!
But does this mean that I can trade in my two $995 versions for five $395
copies? :^)
Greg Pyros
Greg!
I told Em' so! <BG>
James (former Xaos Beta tester) Murphy
>>Told 'em so<<
Me too…..
Response at Sig'94 "We are about art, we are not about sales."
I knew art wasn't going to put beaney weaney's on the table.
Lee (also x-xaos b-slave)
Yep, in private and in print, $995 was delusional.
Here's another Xaos quote for the pile: "Actually we're quite pleased with the
initial sales figures"
What's really amusing is the mini-review of Pennello in New Media where they
loved the program except they felt even the $495 (sic?) price was too high ,
compared I guess to the Mac plug-ins.
Autodesk ought to buy Xaos, port full blown Pandemonium to Win-NT as a
stand-alone, (plus IPAS hooks), bundle it for an extra couple of hundred bucks
with 3DSr5, and relegate $395 Pennello to Lightwavers.
Bruce N. Goren
>Autodesk ought to buy Xaos, port full blown Pandemonium to Win-NT as a
stand-alone, (plus IPAS hooks)<
I agree NT version would be perfect. That would justify their $1k desires.
Still wish Xaos ported their photoshop plug-in's to the PC. (don't want Corel
Paint)
JNJ
Hi Lee!
Regarding Penello/Xaos:
This is really a shame because as far as I know every Beta Tester I talked to
including myself warned them that they were coming in to a completly different
market and that they would do well if they paid attention to the current
perceived Values attached to the present IPAS Routines.
I had no problem agreeing that their product had Value in this market but that
they would have to pay attention to current market forces and go for the larger
market share. Their Pricing was simply out of line with reality.
I reminded them also that as a Beta tester/Dealer I felt insulted that they
would offer to sell me a final copy for $300. while as a dealer I could sell
"Educational" Copies to "Students" for $195.
I thought that both insulting and inconsistant with their expectations
regarding the $1000.00 price for the "General Population".
So as a Dealer & Beta Tester my value was percieved by Xaos as being less than
that of a Student who most likley would use this product to compete unfairly
with those clients of mine that I would have sold their product to for $1000.00
Completly undefensable in my humble opinion.
I'd like to see this Group stick around and continue to work on these types of
programs as IPAS plug-ins for 3D Studio but if they don't get a better feel for
the realities of this market place they're gonna loose it.
This ain't the SGI Market Fella's….I told em' that outright and was met with
major attitude…So I gave Em' a Pass….
There are Some Programs that we can live without, especially at unrealisticly
high prices.
To quote myself again I argued with them that at $1000.00 most of my clients
would be spending that kind of money on upgrading thier 486 machines to
Pentiums, NOT an IPAS Routine!
Totally Deaf Ears!
Well I'm sorry they screwed up their marketing plan because I really would like
to see the Kind of "programing" talent that the Xaos People represent
contribute to the overall 3D Studio Package.
I hope they can recover and have learned a valuable lesson.
BTW this is also why I've decieded that Beta Testing can be a Huge Waste of
Time and I no longer consider doing it.
Why Do It if the company isn't going to listen to Ya'. I guess I'm smart
enough to to tell em' what's broken but not smart enough to realize current
market forces. Go Figure! <BG>
End of Rant:
Murph'
I agree totally. Great group of talent, poor business sense.
>> I reminded them also that as a Beta tester/Dealer I felt insulted that
>> they would offer to sell me a final copy for $300. while as a dealer
>> I could sell "Educational" Copies to "Students" for $195.
I'm sure your thoughts echo those of many on that beta program. I hope they
have learned a lesson that the 3DS community knows their stuff and doesn't just
participate in beta programs only to get "free" stuff. Many 3DS users probably
put it thru more time and testing than their own PAID staff did. It's a real
shame that more consideration wasn't given to the testers and their opinions.
>> …I really would like to see the Kind of "programing" talent that the
>> Xaos People represent contribute to the overall 3D Studio Package.
Agreed. Xaos' products offer 3D artists some outstanding capabilities. I'd
like to see their whole line of products adapted to work with 3DS (and kept at
an affordable price! <g>
I applaud their decision to re-price Pennello. It is an excellent product for
the PC (or any platform for that matter.) I am in no way slamming their
products or the talented programming staff, but I too TOLD 'EM SO!
– Dave
– Dave
Didn't we all!
In truth Don, this is really a mystery because when you say _all_ I know this
is not an overstatement.
As far as I can determine every single Beta Tester told them they were too
High!
After talking to one of their most High Profile Beta Testers on the Phone
about this I was told that he too thought it was too high.
I made a few more calls and did some E-Mailing around and literally every Beta
Tester that I knew told them the same thing.
Yet…and here's the really big tip-off on how they respected this
market….When I called them and spoke to Xaos Directly Prior to the release of
the product while it was still in Beta just after they announced to us the Beta
Testers what the pricing structure was they denied that they had heard any
other Beta tester tell them that the pricing was out of wack!
I told em', you told em' and so did the other Beta's I talked to.
Denial Much! <BG>
Well….enough Bashing on Xaos, I hope they can recover and get their act
together. I'd really like to see more software from them. But only at
reasonable prices.
I heard you were pretty busy.
I'm Glad! You've contributed so much it's gratifying to see you fully
employed! <BG>
Murph'
Hi James,
I not only told them over and over, but took the time to cut commentary on that
subject from the forum, and send it to them. And, I didn't even get the final
version with all the canned effects, either. Did you ?
BILL
I didn't expect them to give me a final copy. After the conversation we had.
I still don't feel too inclined to carry the product even at $395 especially
after the way they treated the Beta testers. The Student Copies at $195 is
pretty much what did it for me!
Murph'
Yep. I agree. I do like using it every now & then though.
BILL
One clarification, James. When I told them it was in writing and I was told
that there was a big conflict about this as well as the beta testers paying to
do testing for them. Remember that? I WAS told that all the beta testers had
protested this pricing structure. They did not try to play ignorance with me.
You and I must have spoken to different people. Face it, when you have the
highest price IPAS in the business it better be very good. Fact is it really
was nothing that special and the market told them that.
After visiting COMDEX and seeing all the new animation tools we will have with
Windows NT I think many, including 3DS will have to take a big re-evaluation of
their price structure. Either 3DS r5 will be feature competitive with Alias
and Soft Image or it will have to compete with the other products doing the
same thing for $200 to $1000 range. The end of the year will be very
interesting in the animation software industry. I played with a Windows
product that sold for <$200 and it appeared to do just about everything that
3DS will do without the IPAS. It was very competitive with 3DSr2. One of the
biggest competitors will be Lightwave for the PC. I think we all will need to
watch this product develop on windows NT. I was very impressed with it at
$795.
Just to balance the conversation, I'd like to say that I think Pennello does
have a lot going for it. It has an innovative and well designed interface, and
can do some really wonderful effects. It seems to have been pretty bug free for
those who have bought it, and they took the time to create a large, well done
manual with several examples.
Pricing-wise, at $1000 it was not an impulse-buy. Animators would buy it when
and if a director asked for the effects that Pennello can do, particularly
painterized live video. This isn't a common request, and that means it won't
get a large number of the installed 3DS users to buy it.
Jim
Jim, I agree that Pennello is a powerful program, and very very well coded.
However, as Don pointed out, the market place is demonstrating price range/
feature functionality that would suggest $400 as closer to competitive.
Additionally, I think Pennello should have a few more features with regard to
selection tools that would make areas HOT/SAFE, thus reducing the number of
QUEUE entires and pre-POST preparation of layers. Jeffrey
I can't remember exactly who It was I was talking to at Xaos but they did deny
that they had any of their beta testers tell them their retail pricing was too
high when I talked to them. I remember that much. <G>
Regarding COMDEX and upcoming products I agree with you that we are living in
interesting times…..<BG> ….to say the least!
I'm also pretty confident that Gary and the Yost Group if given enough freedom
to expand the program, will do so to everyones benefit.
LightWave? Who knows? I like those kinds of races…..
Murph'
Hi Murph,
Well as far as beta testing goes, I personally thinnk it's great fun. However,
I'm with you in that whatever company wants me to PAY to beta their program is
completely lunatic.
One thing that COREL has pretty much instituted is that THEY will PAY beta
testers for their services and not the other way around. And even if they
don't pay, rewarding the tester with a FREE final copy is the LEAST they can
do.
Fractal Design Corp, has one of the most responsive and responsible beta
programs I've seen. They like what I do for them and I love to test their
software. And ALWAYs without fault, I get a letter from them thanking me for
my hard work accompanied by a final release of their software.
It's a great arrangement, and I think that as people become more aware of thie
"beta ettiquette" other companies will behave better towards beta testers.
I can openly say that I'm happy that XAOS got what they deserved. I have
ABSOLUTELY no patience for over bearing, attitudinal programmers that think
that just because they can program a couple of lines of code that they are IT
and nothing else matters. That line that "We are about Art and not about
Sales" WHAT IS THAT?! I heard the same bullsh*t at SIGGRAPH last year….. i
just laughed, and said "you'll see…"
And they did. They better think twice before opening their mouth the next time
and kiss our ass.
Alex.
I'll probably never Beta Again, I've pretty much had it due to my experience
with XAOS.
Murph'
>>>In case you haven't heard, Xaos just lowered the price of Penello from $995
to $395, effective immediately!<<<
Good news. It may be time to add that sixth dongle to my chain.
Indeed we have lowered the price of Pennello from $995 to $395. This was in
reponse to feedback we were receiving from endusers concerning the price. If
you have any questions feel free to give us a call, also anyone who purchases
Pennello in May gets a free AIR Frescro CDROM (courtesy of Xaos Tools and
Planet Studio) worth $199. If you are already a registered user email (serial
number and address) and I will get one to you. We hope you enjoy the product.
Oliver Muoto
Director, Product Management, Mac/PC Products
Xaos Tools
(415) 487-7033
muoto@xaostools.com
Oliver,
I'm glad to see Penello's price adjustment to fit in with all the other IPAS
programs.
I'd love to see a full port of Pandemonium for NT in the near future. With
3DS, Softimage, Animation:Master, Lightwave, and many other graphics programs
making their way over to NT, Pandemonium would definately find plenty of power
users willing to spend ~$800-$1k for your product. Please consider it. This
forum is chock full of REAL professionals, and worthy of your ear. Look
around, people want your product- but not the SGI pricing structure. There are
alot of us that should more than make up the difference from a cut in price
tag.
Thanks for your time,
John N Jordan
>>>making their way over to NT, Pandemonium would definately find plenty of
power users willing to spend ~$800-$1k for your product.<<<
I wouldn't say an NT version is worth $1K. I hope other developers don't start
raising prices just because it is written for NT. I see Razor Pro/NT lists for
$1499, I think there are some users here who think it is overpriced at $795. I
applaud them for developing a program that supports the PAR and soon the
Perception. That price is almost what the PAR/PVR costs and it is half the
price of 3DS. If Adobe would get off their butt and support the PAR/PVR like
Razor there would be real competition.
>I wouldn't say an NT version is worth $1K. I hope other developers don't start
raising prices just because it is written for NT. I see Razor Pro/NT lists for
$1499, I think there are some users here who think it is overpriced at $795.<
I don't know about Razor Pro NT, but Pandemonium is a really state of the art
program, with many years in development, and not something just anyone is
interested in. It's no Corel Draw. But mabe $500 would be more reflective of
an appropriate price. OTOH, Razor Pro is more mainstream, competing directly
with Premiere, which costs less than $500. I agree that RP's list is
overpriced, and I don't see a $600 justification for an NT version of RP,
unless a ton more features added, etc. But, again, I'm not experienced to
fairly talk about RP. All said and done, I think most people that would
actually use pandemonium would be happy paying $500-1k for a full port with
PanFX. If it gets much cheaper, we'll see pandemonium-ized everything,
following the fad of lens flare'd everything.
Agreed, re. the price of R Pro… A $795 tag was at least acceptable, but
almost doubling the price to go to NT…. not so sure.
As a R Pro user, I just hope there will be greater deals on the upgrade
available from dealers than the $699 projection.
You're saying that upgrading Razor PRO to NT is going to cost $700.00? What!
That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. I sure hope that's just a
rumor. There's no way I'd ever pay more than $300 to upgrade it. It's not that
great. It would be interesting to hear what others have to say about this. I
wonder if Jamie will chime in?
DM
>You're saying that upgrading Razor PRO to NT is going to cost $700.00? What!
That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. I sure hope that's just a
rumor. There's no way I'd ever pay more than $300 to upgrade it. It's not that
great. It would be interesting to hear what others have to say about this. I
wonder if Jamie will chime in?
— Yep, got it staight off the in:sync BBS. I was hoping to get some other
opinions on thiss matter, as it sounded like one heck of a lot, and I would
like to know if other users felt the same way, and we could get together and
tell in:sync that their upgrade price is too high.
Now, I must admit, they said they were planning a whole SLEW of new features,
and that the program would no longer be the same program. I would hope that's
true, but it seems unlikely they could add $700 worth of features, considering
it already is an expensive program. Perhaps it will go the way of Pennello
(which I must confess to knowing little about, but its legend is infamous).
Yeah, that's almost double the cost of upgrading 3DS and that alone makes me
wonder how they think they can charge so much. I'm willing to bet they get very
few upgrades. Just like Xaos sold very few Penello's. Cool package Yes, but not
worth that much. It took me a while to justify $800 in the first place.
Charging almost that again to upgrade it to NT is ridiculous. Sorry to keep
ranting on this but it really pisses me off. Anyone else got an opinion on
this?
DM
>Yeah, that's almost double the cost of upgrading 3DS and that alone makes me
wonder how they think they can charge so much. I'm willing to bet they get very
few upgrades. Just like Xaos sold very few Penello's. Cool package Yes, but not
worth that much. It took me a while to justify $800 in the first place.
Charging almost that again to upgrade it to NT is ridiculous. Sorry to keep
I wonder if any people from in:sync frequent these bases? We each should write
them somehow, as I'm sure they will tend to offer breaks on upgrades if they
realize the majority of the people just aren't going to pay that, at least
until they see proof that the NT upgrade really does $1599 worth of dazzle.
It's not like Adesk who could release a brand new package called 3D Studio for
$3000; Adesk had the reputation and prestige of AutoCad, and quite a large
following – plus, 3DS was one of the few packages of its type to be released on
the PC at the time. RAZOR is quite a different story. There are many
post-production packages of one type or another out there (not to mention
premeire), and in:sync is still a small potatoes company. But posssibly the
worst thing going against a >100% price increase is that their product is
already earmarked with a certain quality and capacity. When you think " "Razor
for $1599", you think in the context of just a few improvements on the old. It
doesn't seem worth it. They need to prove themselves BEFORE they gouge their
users. You can gouge them when they feel it's worth it, not before. Even if
they kept the initial price at >$1500 for new users to avoid subsequent price
hikes in newer versions, they could at least give a break to their present
users, who would put the new version thru its paces, and at least the product
would get OUT there and get used. Myself, I'm not so sure I'd want to upgrade
for $700, even if 3DS is primarily going NT itself. I'm probably going to keep
a multi-boot system for a while, with NT, OS/2 and DOS. Perhaps I'll just
leave Razor to its present capa- bilities in DOS, and put my $$$ into upgrding
3DS and *POSSIBLY* getting Acad 13/14, depending on its 3D prowess and my
income with 3D architectural animations….
Jerome:
$700 for the Razor Pro NT upgrade would be the perfect way for In:sync to kill
off what appeared to be a promising product. I can't recall a product
virtually doubling in price for a platform migration or a feature upgrade.
Looks like Premiere will be the only way to do editing without losing one's
shorts. Won't the Windows version of Razor Pro function under NT? If yes why
would one upgrade at all? If you take 3DS as a case in point, the amazing new
features of the upgrade to R3 cost less than 15% of the total package price of
R2. Most of my other programs have cost 25% or less to upgrade when a new
version has come out. At $1500 + could Razor Pro be 400% better than Adobe's
Premiere? I find it a tough question right now as Premiere can be had for half
the cost of Razor Pro. To snag a huge market share I always thought the
opposite strategy would work – double your features and cut your price. This
makes the competition bleed and scramble as you get new customers and the
accolades from satisfied customers who believe you are revolutionizing the
industry. Sorry to rant in your direction, I hope for an official In:sync
response. (Jamie, could you describe Razor Pro for NT and specifically what it
will cost new and as an upgrade to the Windows version?)
Bob
Jerome:
>> I can't recall a product virtually doubling in price for a platform
migration or a feature upgrade. Looks like Premiere will be the only way to do
editing without losing one's shorts. Won't the Windows version of Razor Pro
function under NT?<<
I think all of your points are will taken, but from a manufacturers standpoint,
you have to look at two things typically when working out pricing. 1st what is
the market size and what is your investment in the product. 2nd, what will the
market dictate for similair products. If you look at the 1st .. surely the
market for an NT version is much smaller right now than for a generic Windows
product. When looking at the second .. what the market will support or is
supporting for similair products .. you would hope that the price you calculate
in the 1st case is smaller that what the market will support (or is supporting)
otherwise .. don't build the damn thinkg.
Well .. lucky for Jamie (in:sync), the other products that are going to be
running on NT and are doing similair things are in the price range of $3k –
$10k (AVID NT, D-Vision, FilmMaker). So .. actually $1,500 is a very
aggressive price. Since both products (Razor Pro and NT) and since Jamies
company is small .. it would be too difficult to not have the upgrade price be
anything less than the differential in the list prices.
One fella's opinion.
Ang, President, Dynamic Technologies, Inc.
An Autodesk Systems Center for Multimedia in MD
Hey – no problem with the "rant". With luck, there will be official in:sync
people reading this. At the very least, writing so that others can hear your
opinions, be they users or developers.
As for if RAZOR will work with NT, the only reason RAZOR doesn't work in NT now
is because NT currently has no NT drivers. Supposedly, when the PAR driver for
NT is released, it sould work (er – up there, I meant "because the PAR has not
NT drivers"). Not certain, but I would hope the least in:sync would do is
continue to support their current version in NT for those who don't find the
upgrade worth it…
Hey Robert, Just had to jump in here. This is exactly what I've been saying
too. If In:Sync really plans on basically doubling the cost of RP just to make
it a NT product, then I hope they get what they deserve. Absolutely nothing! No
one's going to upgrade. I've already paid $800 to be a beta tester for four
months until they made the product stable and now that it is, they think I'm
going to shell out another $700. Screw them. Sorry to be so harsh, but this
ticks me off. Well, like I said I'm off of this until Jamie gives some official
word. Should be interesting to hear what he has to say. I've left Jamie a
message about this also, and he has yet to respond. We'll see….
DM
>>>Now, I must admit, they said they were planning a whole SLEW of new
features, and that the program would no longer be the same program. I would
hope that's true, but it seems unlikely they could add $700 worth of features,
considering it already is an expensive program. Perhaps it will go the way of
Pennello (which I must confess to knowing little about, but its legend is
infamous).<<<
I think you could find people that feel they haven't gotten their first $700
worth from the program. Razor Pro is lacking feature wise compared to
Premiere. If it wasn't for the fact that RP is the only program that supports
the native-PAR I wouldn't have taken the chance on it.
Hi David,
Why not simply call Jamie Carr into all this? Isn't he one of the owners of
in:sync?
Why not let him respond to these alegations and see what his response it to our
cry that the NT version is way overpriced and that we simply aren't going to
purchase it if they insist in this ridiculous pricing scheme.
Jamie, the floor is yours….
Alex K.
Alex, I have openly wondered why Jamie has not piped in, but he still hasn't.
I'm glad to see more people taking issue with this. It's just plain ridiculous.
I'm hoping Jamie will agree also, as I'm sure he's been reading these messages
– although we are in the "Pennello news" thread. Although, I guess it's
relevant since Xaos had the same problem trying to rape all their potential
customers and they at least learned their lesson. I think it's really sad to
see In:Sync trying to charge such absurb prices just because they can read
PAR/PVR directly. If Adobe manages to do this, which they will, I think RP is
going to be in trouble. Hell, I could buy _two_ copies of Premiere for less
than the upgrade cost alone. Well, I'm going to stop ranting on this until I
hear some word from Jamie.
See ya.
DM
I too will be quite irritated if the upgrade price is a high as what has been
suggested here. I'm still hoping for a decent manual for the first $700 (plus
the $150 decimator chip) I spent. How long has that been in the works? The
ONLY reason I bought RP was due to it's support for the PAR card. Maybe we
could flood Adobe with calls requesting support for PAR/PVR?
Larry
Hi Tim,
I agree with you on this one. Why do some people take the attitude of "You are
God" towards these software companies??!
I certainly don't understand it. Hell, we should be TELLING them what we want,
what do THEY know without our input? God, I've grown so impatient of these
companies. Don't they know that without out input and $$ they simply would
cease to exist? They better start learning quick to treat the people that
support them better.
Alex.
Tim:
I agree with you too…and we changing things to try and treat people that
support us better. I can promise you that the next Pennello beta will be
different, no paid beta testing..I am personally totally that sort of sordid
thing. Just a little background about myself, I am relatively new to Xaos
Tools (aka first month) and I am beginning to realize exactly what I have
inherited. I cannot change the past, but we can try and make changes in the
future. There have been a number of problems in past – price, paid beta
programs, ie (I am sure you can add to this list) – and I am trying to see that
these things change and at the same time listen to what the people that support
us want. I know people have been rubbed the wrong way ("brushed over") and have
a right to be venting your frustration, but how can we move on from here on a
more positive note? I am open to your suggestions.
Oliver Muoto
Dir., Product Management (PC)
Xaos Tools, Inc.
muoto@xaostools.com
>> how can we move on from here on a more positive note?
Your being here, responding to these comments (and really listening) is exactly
the way to move positively forward.
You'll notice that noone has complained about product quality, but rather the
poor handling of people (customers and testers.) Now that the product is
competitively priced and you are here to deal with questions and comments, Xaos
will be much more warmly received. (Unfortunately, bad press always travels
faster and farther than the good news, so it may take a while.)
Yet another former Pennello tester,
— David Marks
Hi Oliver,
PMJI to this thread, but I too was a beta site for Pennello, gave you a great
deal of input, but never got the final version with the canned F/X, etc.,…was
allowed to keep the last beta & lock, though. I was wondering what I could do
to get the final version, or at least the canned stuff. I was probably only one
of a few (maybe none?) to actually upload sample images done with Pennello to
the libraries here. You can answer E-Mail if you like.
Thanks,
BILL
Penello is dongle protected? Stupid! There are going to be plenty of sales you
will _never_ make because of this. Me for one. And to think I was actually
thinking of getting it now, that's it's finally at a reasonable price. Not any
more.
DM
Hi Oliver,
>>anyone who purchases Pennello in May gets a free AIR Frescro CDROM (courtesy
of Xaos Tools and Planet Studio) worth $199. If you are already a registered
user email (serial number and address) and I will get one to you. We hope you
enjoy the product<<
Is that supposed to be a big deal? I just got one of those discs without EVER
buying Pennello. I simply subscribed to planet Studio. Why even go through
the hassle and ask them for their serial number??!
If you ask me, I think that you guys need to do a little more for those people
that shelled out that kind of monay for your product.
Alex.
Hi Greg,
->"In case you haven't heard, Xaos just lowered the price of Pennello..to $395"
He he, yeah, but what's gonna be the deal *next* month?
A good friend of mine in the user group jumped on their "April" sale of $495,
only to feel burned by their new "$395" price. He called them up to find out
what was up and they offered to send him a CD of stuff (same one that Planet
Studio ships).
I'm gonna wait til it hits $59, then make my move. 🙂 I must say that I find
this type of marketing game extremely annoying, kinda like the 'ol Crystal
Graphics syndrome. They should pick a price, and stick with it. If they decide
to change it, they should give existing customers some sort of recompense or
risk alienating them permanently.
Since you paid $995 and bought 2 copies, don't you feel a bit miffed at paying
around $1200 extra and only being offered a $200 CD?
-Heinz.
<< They should pick a price, and stick with it. If they decide to change it,
they should give existing customers some sort of recompense or risk alienating
them permanently.
Imagine how someone who bought live picture recently for 2k more than the new
price feels when offered free training.
If they made a mistake then Im glad theyre adjusting. If its a strategy to see
how many they can sell at the higher price before
appealing to a larger market share then they (meaning anyone consumers suspect
of this behavior ) could find that everyone will
wait for the real price. It happened in the car biz when consumers learned to
wait for end of year zero interest deals.
Ed
Hi Edward,
I really didnt' mean to pick on the Penello people, they make a great product.
This pricing roller-coaster is a trend I've seen with alot of companies lately.
I've got lots of software on my shelf that sells for 1/3 of the price I
originally paid.
There's no problem with making a mistake and correcting it later. Just make
sure you don't rake your existing customers over the coals in the process. You
can't have it both ways or it becomes a lose/lose situation.
While I don't always agree with Autodesk, the one thing I do respect is that
3D-Studio has always been 3K, period. Other companies like Adobe follow a
similar tact. These are professional tools, and along with well thought-out
code comes well thought-out pricing and upgrading policies as well. Yost Ipas
disks have always been $300. There's no legitimate "secret" back-door I know of
that gets you near-free copies, and no way of shmoozing an employee of these
companies out of a licensed copy. If a company values its own products, it
shows in the way it does business and treats its customers.
Whoops, there I go ranting again. 🙂
-Heinz.
Hi Heinz!
Nice to see that you've been hanging around the forum more lately.
>>pricing roller-coaster
This coaster has only been going down! $395 seems just about right.
Edward Harvey seemed to suggest that this could be some sort of ploy on Xaos'
part. I don't think so -the guy who brought the product out at $995 isn't
around any more. Not that anyone ever paid $995 -the $795 intro price lasted
until the March $495 'special'. Now what was THAT all about? Digimation does
a surprise mailing offering Pennello at half price ($495) and then the price
drops again the next month???
[I've just deleted some indiscrete rantings here]
But, I agree -stable pricing through a uniform distribution channel. Amen.
-Paul
At $395 what mischief can they do?
Heinz:
Yes, we are correcting a mistake and I feel badly about pricing policies in the
past, especially in relation to our beta testers, it is unfortunate. We are
trying to change that and really take time to listen to our users. The $395 is
final and it's a response to people such as yourself telling us 'hey, get
real'. Building Pennello was a huge investment on our part and we honestly
felt Pennello's initial price justified and in fact a reasonable one, but we
have learned otherwise. At the same time we are trying to be sensitive to
existing customers needs. If anyone feels betrayed or upset, please give me a
call. Ed is right, a business that values its products shows it in the way
they treat their customers. At the same, if you make a mistake you need to
correct it, rather than continue to live with it just because you don't want to
look bad – that way everyone looses. The change has been made and we will try
to address the needs of those affected by it. And by the way, we do appreciate
your faith in the quality of our products and the understanding most people
have of the situation, and we are try to listen more and more to what you have
to say (otherwise I probably wouldn't be here).
Oliver Muoto
Dir. Product Management, PC Products
Xaos Tools
Well said.
Tim Miller
BLUR Studio
Oliver,
I feel totally ripped off !!
Not only did I spend 625 Pounds Sterling for Pennello but I even had to put my
own stamp on the registration card to get it to the US.
And I bet I don't get the CD you said I would !!
(Good product though )
Mark
Heinz-
>>A good friend of mine in the user group jumped on their "April" sale of $495,
only to feel burned by their new "$395" price. He called them up to find out
what was up and they offered to send him a CD of stuff (same one that Planet
Studio ships).<<
-you can make that "two friends" now! I just got the same offer as Kirk did.
I was o.k. with being "tossed a bone" – until I started to hear that it was a
throw-in on a few other deals. Who was it at the last meeting that said,
"they don't call it _XAOS_ for nothing !" ? Kind of appropriate under the
circumstances. I've just read 36 highly charged messages in this thread…It
reads like a Jenny Jones show or something <G>. Would I be the first in
suggesting the addition of a new section to the forum – solely dedicated to
these kinds of situations…ranting, raving, venting, and general soul
cleansing. How about GO VENT??
P.S. Kirk tipped me off to some of the book work your involved in. Congrats
and good luck ! See you next week at the meeting.
Gary 🙂
The Pennelo situation gets weirder,
I just got a call from some lady at XAOS, wanting to send me some information
on a special they are running on Pennelo ("have you heard of it?" she asks),
and that they had got my name from Autodesk. I asked her what the special was,
I asked her about the fact that they just dropped their price from 995 to 395,
and if this was now a special for less than that, and she said she didn't know,
she just made the phone calls.
I then asked her how was it I knew more than she did about the company she was
working for, but she didn't seem to find this as funny as I did.
Of course she had no idea that XAOS had once promised to come up and show off
Pennelo to our user group about three months back and bailed out at the last
minute. I didn't bother informing her.
I told her to go ahead and send whatever she had…
You mean Jerry Springer I think. Jenny is still a little mild. <g>
Truth of the matter is that you've got a company that was hungry for
beta sites and after several of us jumped in to offer our assistance
"for free" (btw I DO believe that everyone involved probably busted
their asses like I did. Remember, it WAS an exciting project at the
time) I think most of us feel burned or "brushed off". Time doesn't
come cheap anymore. I'm not "the Post Group" and haven't made my
living off 3D Studio yet. I do however love this product and spend
every extra hour glued to my pc. I have worked on several beta
projects and MOST developers are more than greatful and rewarding.
My greatest reward is knowing that the time I spend will go toward
the growth of better tools which benefits the entire 3DS community.
For the past 6 mos. I have been virtually unemployed as far as $$$
goes but I have spent approx. 10 hrs. a day doing beta work. Guess
that makes me a professional beta tester? Now I have just taken a
new job with a Civil engineering group and will finally be doing
real work in the 3D Studio visualization arena. Puts me in a real
good position to make educated requisitions for software which will
serve their pourpose. Although I'll have to admitt that the main
reason I took this job is that they already have 30 Pentium 90's
& 100's running NT and Novell.
Lee (burned by some, rewarded by most) Steel
Greg;
>> But does this mean that I can trade in my two $995 versions for five
>> $395 copies? :^)
Absolutely! Just call 1-800-4refund, or 1-800-upgrade. That should do it!
<g,d, & R>
Dennis
PS. I downloaded the demo version, and didn't fully understand what it would
be used for. Just call me dumbo!
Dennis
Greg;
>> But does this mean that I can trade in my two $995 versions for five
>> $395 copies? :^)
Absolutely! Just call 1-800-4refund, or 1-800-upgrade. That should do it!
<g,d, & R>
I have to appologize for the joke. I just got overwhelmed with making a joke,
and forgot you probably weren't in a joking mood. I wouldn't be. Not at that
price. I'd be really bummed.
Sorry. 🙁
Dennis