CompuServe Thread

> Since the L2 is more expensive than the VX-3, I wonder what features are > missing in the VX-3 to make it less expensive and still have three chips > rather than the one-chip of the L2. I considered these briefly and then bought the Sony TR-700 Hi8. The L2 has interchangeable lenses and one, a very expensive one at that, has optical stabilization. The VX-3 does not have stabilization. Here others have said that Canon's license with Sony prohibits them from making a 3 CCD L2. This would be optimal imho. I've read generally good remarks about all three. For the Hi8 camp the VX-3 in the low cost or the EVW-300 (same full size as 455U with 3 CCD Hi8 format) for the serious pro are the ones from what I can tell. The major flack about Hi8 drop outs seems to be resolved with Fuji's newer 120ME evaporated tape. The 60 and 120 are from the same tape stock. The 455U gets good marks but there are a couple of limitations (that I don't recall … sorry). It with a couple of Panasonic 1970 SVHS decks seem to be the preferred SVHS professional entry level setup. Maybe a real pro will jump in here and help. Hope this helps a little. -jts <amateur only>

Dave, I use the 455 am, for the most part happy with the results. It has manual overide for focus, white balance, iris. The one thing I do miss is the manual zoom. On the other hand, the zoom is continuously variable, and I use the crawl (very slow) zoom a lot. The original 455 did have some auto focus problems, but I understand that the newer version has that corrected (better check on it if you talk to dealers. I bought my 455 mail order from Tri-State in New York in Aug of 94. Cost was 1499 plus shipping. I have many hours use and so far no problems. It also writes time code while shooting, which may come in handy for certain types of editing. Happy shopping. Lynn Emerich Video Service PS. I also use AG1960 and 1970 decks for editing and usually get within 1 frame accuracy.

I'm a new member of the forum here. I am in almost the same situation as you described in your message–trying to decide between the Canon 1 CCD L type and the Sony 3CCD VX I haven't gotten far enough to run across the Panasonic. I read the other messages and still don't know what to do. I create music/video art for distribution and hopefully broadcast at some point. I need a camera and I am also in the market for editing equipment. What is the difference in image quality and what is the ultimate advantage of having a 3CCD system over the flexibility of the interchangeable lenses on the Canon. I am open to any suggestions from anyone, Philip Osaka, Japan

If you are just starting out, and don't want to buy alot at the start, I would suggest a Panasonic AG-450 in SVHS or A1-digital from canon for the Hi8 side. These would cost almost half as you will only find them refurbed or used. They are both decent cameras and some believe they are the workhorses of the Wedding Video scene. I don't think you would like the 455u simply for control. Some disagree. I can't stand the focus ring. If it is fixed as some suggest it would be Good. We use a JVC editdesk to edit. Around $6000 for everything u need to do a good job (controller, recorder with TC, and player that's OK with EP vhs). Since this is the SVHS format, your choice would be the 455 from the three. If you can figure out how to edit with acceptable results in Hi8, or u are willing to DUB to SVHS (one generation lose already) then the L2 is the best of the 2 Hi8's you spoke of. It is based on the L1 which is also a fine camera, still. The L2 has advanced stabalization that I saw at Wedding Video Expo '94. It looked very good. If you find yourself able to spend the bucks and you're going Hi8. Go with the Canon L2! There are many, many reasons. Goodluck with your choice. I hated being at that point; wanting to not make a mistake. In closing: Go find a store that has a 455. Play with it for focusing. If you can get past that, it seems to be a good device. I think it will work for you well and will allow you to spend less for more with an editing system. Zeddock Miller

David: >One last thing. Several people have told me that when you buy consumer-level equipment, you always end up "paying for it" at some point. Is this true? Are there things about the pro (or prosumer) equipment that make it worth sticking with somehow?< Well, yes & no. The biggest advantage of "pro" equipment is greater flexibility (usually, manual override of your iris, manual control of your white balance, better control of your audio, manual zoom/focus–although that doesn't apply in the case of the 455), although I think the lines are beginning to blur w/better consumer equipment. Of course, that's also the limitation, since greater flexibility means more things you can screw up…<g> The AG-455 is actually from Panasonic's "Pro Line", which isn't professional as much as "prosumer". The Canon L2 and the Sony VX3 are also considered "prosumer" camcorders–none are exactly suitable for over-the-air broadcast, but all are good enough for wedding videos, public access, or low-end industrial & training tapes… My *personal* preference would be for the VX3, since three chips give you a *much* better picture than one does. OTOH, since it has three chips, it's not very good in low light situations–I *think* its minimum lux rating is 21 lux, as opposed to three lux or less for the other two. One question you need to ask yourself when deciding what camcorder to get is is "How often am I gonna haul this *furshlugginger* thing around?". My original camcorder was an RCA CC-360 S-VHS camcorder and, after the initial attraction was over, I found myself VERY reluctant to take it w/me anywhere since it was so large and unwieldy. OTOH, when I had access to Sony's TR-200 Hi8 camcorder a few years back (I was reviewing it around Christmas time for the now-defunct VIDEO SHOPPER), I fell in love w/the small size (despite the only fair picture) and did a *great* deal of shooting w/it (some of which I still use as stock footage). I can't say I was that enamored of the L2, though–I found the design unwieldy and the ability to swap lenses to be a deuced inconvenience, frankly… As for your editing concerns, I've always had reasonably good luck editing Hi8 to S-VHS. Up to a point, you can always use your camcorder as your playback deck (I wouldn't recommend it if you do a *lot* of editing, though), and I believe both the VX3 and the L2 come w/LANC edit controller protocol (Sony makes an S-VHS VCR that also uses LANC–don't know the number, offhand). If you want to use Panasonic's AG-1970, be advised it uses a different protocol from LANC–but since most third-party edit controllers can read and translate both protocols, you'll still be able to edit using them… BTW, I'm w/Zeddock–I'd *hate* to be in your shoes right now! The thing is, it all depends on what fits you best… Best, Tim Liebe

There are several good choices in your list (the only one you left out is the TR700). I personally shoot the TR700 for industrial clients (95%), and rent a VX3 for my nature & better wedding packages (the other 5%). The L2 I've only used once; its great if you have to get that sharp shot and need 300mm of Canon LD glass. Otherwise, the lack of stablization pulls it way below the two Sonys (the VX3 doesn't have stablization either, but it's picture off a tripod or with a Kenyon gyro is GREAT!). SVHS has only one advantage in my book, most local rental edit suites only A/B in SVHS, Hi8 is usually only an afterthought. I usually bump my A/Bs up to MII at one of my area's better affordable suites. Don't know if this helped or only muddied the water. Good luck anyway. Good day and good light, T. Patrick O'Hara (aka. Lightwriter)

FWIW,I have aL2 and am _very_ unhappy with it. It has horrible red bleed that puts halos around any Caucasian's skin, yet I am told it is "in spec" and Canon refuses to do anything about it. It is even far worse than my Canon A1-MKII, which I find particularly annoying. Of course my Sony EVW-300 is the best of my set, but being a 3-chip, I expected that. – Burt

hi david, deciding whether to get a hi-8 or svhs camera is your first order of business. the former is rapidly becoming the favorite aquisition method, largely because of smaller camera size and vast improvements in hi-8 tape quality. i can't think of too many reasons to get a 455, unless size does not matter and cost is very important. and despite panasonic and jvc efforts to the contrary, there are fewer and fewer svhs cameras being made every year. are your editing playback decks svhs or hi-8? either format can be used as an edit playback master now. hopefully you won't have to use the camera for this purpose, it is simply not durable enough. i own both an l1 and an l2. they are great cameras, the lenses are far better than either the vx3 or the 455. however, if you shoot stuff like weddings all the time you probably don't need interchangeable lenses. i do drag racing, car shows, and sports stuff, so i could never get by on the dinky lenses the other guys use. however, i have heard nothing but good about the picture quality of the vx3, if i could not afford the evw300 or the toshiba tsc line i would love to have one. the only drag with the vx3, and the thing that removes it from serious semi-pro use, is the non-adjustable audio. check this out throughly before you buy one, sony was so stupid about not including this feature on this camera. as for comments regarding red bleeding on the l2, i can say red is the hardest color to get right under ntsc, and no camera in your price range will get it 100% right. the vx3, with the best image quality, stands the best chance out of the three to get the reds done right. i have noticed that bright reds on my cameras tend to bleed, but facial tone and body color are great if you do a white balance before shooting. if you go hi-8, which i would recommend, use fuji m221e tape. it's the best thing out there, although i have heard sony came out with a new tape stock… has anyone used it yet? lastly, don't worry about all that consumer vs. professional b.s. it is something panansonic revels in, yet they put a tv tuner in their 1970, which obviously makes it a consumer deck, yet it is sold by their professional division. and check out the sony tr700, it is a great camera! dan