#very poor support
40 messages in this thread
I can't believe the conversation I just had with 3 different departments at
auto desk. I have never had such poor and rude service. First I dialed the
1-800 number, from which I was given 1-206-487-2934, then after holding for
about 10 minutes I was given 1-415 332-8942 and was put on hold there for a few
minutes , then asked every 15 seconds weather I still wanted to hold or not
then I was hung up on. I called back a second time and was hung up on again.
When I called back the third time and was asked if I wished to hold, I stated
as long as I do not get hung up on again as I am calling long distance. The
Operator became very abrupt and said she was busy, she then asked for the
product I was holding for and I told her 3d-studio …She told me I had the
wrong department?? I was given this number by another dept. in Autodesk. She
then became very rude and said she wasn't willing to argue the point and that
she could give me another number or put me through, so I asked her to put me
through. When I did get through to the proper department they were not willing
to give me technical support unless the dealer that I bought the software from
called them, and not only that but she also had the WHO CARES attitude.
We have spent $4000.00 just on 3d-studio software not to mention other
software from autodesk. You do not need to ask what my recommendations will be
to firms I deal with.
Thanks for absolutley Nothing
John Hardy
Never having called tech-support I can not comment. BUT, I can tell
you…through my personal experience….that you will experience the great
support and interest in solving your problems through this compuserve forum
John "I am NOT an Autodesk/Yost employee…but I like this forum!" Benjamin
Warren,
Adesk offers support through this forum where dealers, Adesk employees and
volunteers like myself handle all of the questions. The only way to get support
through Adesk is to talk to your dealer first who may charge you for a support
contract (and who may call Adesk support, if necessary) or however he wishes to
deal with it. If you want direct support you can always get a support contract
through Adesk who will charge you a piddling some of ~$3000 for unlimited 1
year support.
You are relating a horror story to me. This is, as described, totally
unacceptable and I apologise for this treatment. I will pass along your
message to those in charge of such things.
I would like to have the original 800 number that you dialed, please. The
other two phone numbers you mention are wholly unrelated to 3D Studio. To
properly track this down, I need your starting point.
To clarify our support policy, we offer direct customer support for 3D Studio
only through our authorized multimedia dealers. The dealers can call us
directly for help on problems they can't solve. The next level of support is
through this forum.
I'll be giving your complaint to the support department manager. We'll track
all of this down to be sure it doesn't happen again. Please give me the
original phone number you started with.
I will have to back track on Monday and find it and I will send it to you.
John
You are not alone!
I too feel that Autodesk has very poor DIRECT tech support. It is a shame that
the employees at Autodesk have such an arrogant attitude toward those that pay
their salaries (customers). No doubt you will get much defensive response to
your cry. One thing you have to realize though is that Autodesk has a
different concept of tech support. They really do believe that all their
dealers are competent enough to support the software in the field. Second, they
tell the dealers to call Dealer TS and they will respond only to the dealers.
My experience with this approach is it not only takes way too long to get an
answer it always gets confusing in dealing with a middleman translator. You
see not all dealers are as knowledgeable as those you will find on this forum.
Which leads to the next Autodesk philosophy of tech support. The forum is,
IMHO, the best tech support you will find because because in a very short
period of time you can get access to not only the authors of the software but
to some of the nations leading experts who use the software everyday on a wide
variety of platforms.
It only requires that you are able to articulate, in writing, your question.
Then as the responses come in you will have to sift through them to find those
that work. It's actually lower $ than spending 45 min on hold just to get
"I'll have to ask my supervisor and get back to you." Three weeks later you
call to find out they fired that TS boy and you start all over again. It's a
system that works better than any tech support in the industry and I feel
fortunate to have access to it. Autodesk employees, on the otherhand, should
develop a better attitude toward its customers and offer better explanation
when called for customer Tech support than to say "Go ask your dealer or Go ask
some other user on Compuserve"
I think the products are second to none but after sales support really sucks
except for this forum. And, I hope Yost Group gets compensated very well for
their time spent on this forum.
Don, my impression is that the Yosters get only the satisfaction of a job (as)
well done (as possible) for their time on the forum.
David T
That, plus the fact that being here on the forum assuages my guilt over
Autodesk's lack of direct customer support. If I didn't provide as much direct
support as I could, I don't think I'd be able to sleep well at night.
(Sleep? What's that? 🙂
– G
IMHO what transpires on this forum is soooo much more than mere technical
support I can't say enough. This is communications at a new highpoint for
personkind. I want to thank Yosters and all the others for supporting such a
great forum.
Michael E. Bartlett
Thanks for the appreciation, Michael… it's appreciated! <g>
– G
You are most welcome.
MEB
Hear hear! I've gotten < 30 minute turn-around help from The Yost Group (TYG,
as I think we should call them) — of course, that was in-between deadlines.
The value provided by this forum (ie the input from EVERYONE) is immeasureable.
Dave
>>The value provided by this forum (ie the input from EVERYONE) is
immeasureable.
I couldn't agree with you more. Some Dealers do try to provide support and it
can be pretty darn good but other's don't even notify you that an upgrade is
available. It is such a shame and ultimately poor business. However, the
dealers have their arguments too and sometimes they are not properly supported.
In this rush world I don't think enough time is taken on council with all
parties. Which brings me back to the Forum. The Forum provides us with an
opportunity to be heard regardless of gender, appearance, race, or position.
The lowest common denominator is access to the Forum and an ability to use
written language to express your thoughts.
Michael
>>Some Dealers do try to provide support and it can be pretty darn good but
>>other's don't even notify you that an upgrade is available.
My dealer is always perturbed when I call him up about an upgrade or fix for
something that _he_ hasn't even received dealer notification about yet, but
that I heard about on CIS. I don't know why I can't talk him into monitoring
CIS, other than he really needs help (he's the only guy at his firm I'd trust
with anything) 'cause he's swamped with work, and so lacks the time.
At least I get a little kick, eh? <g>
Dave
Heh Heh! <G> I can't imagine how someone doing tech support could get along
with access to CIS. Well, some people have to be dragged kicking and screaming
onto the freeway.
For my part I have to hit the next off ramp.
Later guy,
MEB
Hey dudes,
Lighten up – Autodesk's official position is that it provides no telephone
support to end users (excepting those with a paid support agreement).
It's not pleasant always (though CIS _is_ pleasant for the most part), but they
don't try to pretend otherwise.
My dealer's a jerk too: I give him the money, he gives me the software, and if
I meet him at a trade show it's like I was from Mars, and if I try to chat him
up about Animator Pro, it's like I was speaking Martian.
Chuck Jameson
Silver Tongue Software
Charles, Most of us with experience on the Autodesk TS policy know better but a
neophyte shouldn't get the run-around by Autodesk staffers when they call in
for TS. I also feel that Autodesk is shrugging responsibility by pushing off
TS to the dealers. When the original Animator first came out it was only sold
through an Autocad dealer here in Jacksonville that wasn't interested in
customers unless he was in the market for a 72 inch plotter or something.
After a week he still didn't special order my prepaid copy. I went to a small
dealer who knew nothing about video/graphics and talked him into signing up as
an Autodesk dealer. I occasionally give HIM tech support since he has trouble
with TS at Autodesk. My dealer's certainly not a jerk. he just doesn't know
this specialty to be as successful at it as he should and Autodesk doesn't help
matters with their simple quicky courses they offer. Autodesk should just
admit when they sell their products that they don't give direct tech support
but if you need help there are a lot of volunteers on Compuserve to help.
PS the original Autodesk dealer here went out of business, any wonder!
Don… Which Jacksonville are you referring to? I'm from Jacksonville,
Florida.
Brian
<<Which Jacksonville are you referring to? I'm from Jacksonville, >>
Me too, or at least I live here now.
Warren:
Autodesk does not directly support its products except informally (and probably
your best and complete option) through this compuserve forum and via your
dealer. If you think this policy is in err, I would suggest that you write
Carol Bartz, CEO, Autodesk Inc., 2320 Marinship Way, Sausalito, Ca…
C#
Well.
I'm sorry everyone feels that Autodesk is so inaccessible and that our support
policies are so 'iron fisted'. Unfortunately, there is no way to make EVERYONE
happy regarding this topic.
Our dealers are required to send personnel to Autodesk for training for the
products they plan to sell. Those dealers are also required to receive more
training as new versions of our products are released. Once a dealer leaves
training, it's up to them to work with the programs and become more familiar so
they can properly demostrate and support the programs for customers. Being
able to support our products adds value to the dealership.
If, for some reason, your dealer does not have an answer to your questions, ask
them to set up a conference call with one of our technicians. This way, you
get to ask your question in person while your dealer gets to listen in and
learn something new.
If you have a dealer who is only interested in pushing a box out the door, then
we both have a problem. If you feel your dealer is not doing a good job in
supporting you, then we need to hear about that dealer so we can take action to
remedy the problem. If we find that particular dealer consistently provides
terrible support, then we will terminate that dealer's authorization status.
Please call our dealer referral line at:
415-332-2344 x2444
to report a dealer you are unhappy with and we can provide you with referrals
to other dealers in your area.
There are currently three ways to obtain support for our products:
Authorized MultiMedia Dealers.
This is the primary method of support. There are approximately 20,000 copies
of 3DS in use by our customers. We currently have four technicians, including
myself, performing support for ALL of our MultiMedia Products. Our Developer
Kits are also included. Therefore, our dealers supply the first line of
support while Autodesk acts as an escalation center for them.
CompuServe Support Forums, (GO ACAD and GO ASOFT).
These are our secondary support routes. All of our technicians log on to CI$
on a daily basis in order to answer questions. We also rely upon these forums
because we obtain information about hardware that our department does not have.
Direct Support Contracts.
Contracts are available on a yearly basis. They currently sell for $3000.00.
Once purchased, you get a toll-free support number so you can talk to any of
our technicians about any of our products.
I can't change Autodesk's policies but I can shed more light on how we operate.
Bob Prokopp – Supervisor
Product Support / Autodesk, Inc.
Bob, Thanks for dropping in to offer your thoughts.
Most of us are aware of the Autodesk policy but are not happy with it.
I don't buy it that Autodesk is so financially strapped that they can only
provide 4 personnel to offer tech support for all the multimedia product
lines. I think it really is just policy to not to concern themselves with
after sale support. Just My Opinion.
I have nothing against my dealer because he doesn't know more about this
software than me. Afterall he sells many more types of software than just
Autodesk products. In all fairness the dealer should only be expected to know
how to solve simple installation and setup and beyond that the customer should
feel free to call upon the mfg. and not get the run around by the employees
only to learn after spending $$$ on the phone that Autodesk has no intention of
phone support because it's not policy.
Bob, Autodesk is getting a bad rap on this support policy and I believe it is
because Autodesk is doing it backwards. You need to advise the dealers that
they tell the customers UPFRONT that they will assist in the installation of
the software and then the dealer should emphasize this forum for further
support. The dealer should be able to demonstrate the effectivness of this
forum to his customers during the sale process showing the superiority of this
method of tech support. By your de-emphasizing this forum as a secondary line
of support you're telling the customer it's second rate. There's nothing wrong
in admitting that your tech support is handled by volunteers as long as you
explain that these volunteers are a collection of some of the worlds formost
experts in the field and explain that this forum allows them to broadcast their
questions to all these experts.
Bob, Autodesk does need to address this issue because for the few who have
expressed this concern on this forum there must be many many more who have a
sour taste from the way Autodesk responds when customers call or worse how
their dealer responded because he really didn't want to appear ignorant. I
wish I knew about this forum and how it worked when I first started with 3DS.
I spent many months working with a "buggy" 3DS that 4 dealers couldn't figure
out. One day cleaning out my drawer I found this disk "Autosig" and decided to
try it out. Thats how I discovered this forum! Two weeks later, thanks to
Greg Pyros and Gary Yost I was operating 3DS without "bugs" I mentioned this
to my dealer and he just shrugged his shoulders and said he doesn't get
involved in BBS because they take too much time.
$3000 to talk to one of you 4 about your products. Are you really trying to
insult your customers? No way, You just threw that in as a joke, right?
Take care,
Don Landis
Hey Don — If you want a dealer who knows more about 3DS, you *can* work with
one of the dealers on this forum. We're all allowed to sell anywhere in the
USA.
Most of the dealers here are too modest to openly solicit forum members — but
they'll be glad to get your business, and will give you great support.
Evan
Evan:
>> Most of the dealers here are too modest to openly solicit forum members
>> — but they'll be glad to get your business, and will give you great
>> support.
What, me modest? <bg>
Greg Pyros
Greg:
Well, you ought to be modest. You've got nothing to brag about. All your
customers have been coming to me, saying that you don't know doodly about 3DS,
and that they'd rather work with a real studly dealer anyway.
So, I sent them all to Angelo.
Evan <G,D&R>
Evan:
>> …rather work with a real studly dealer anyway.
>> So, I sent them all to Angelo.
Saying studly and Angelo in the same paragraph is redundant. <bg>
Greg
>>Saying studly and Angelo in the same paragraph is redundant. <bg>
I would disagree, I think it's an oxymoron. <BG, D &R> I can say that cause I
know that Angelo won't be around for Cad Camp and therefore won't be able to
kick my butt. <BG>
Sorry Ang, couldn't resist, the door was wide open there. <BG>
Yann
I'm aware of the high quality of 3DS dealers here on the forum and NOW I have
somewhere to turn. However as long as my dealer can handle the sales end of
the product and I have this forum for EXCHANGE of support ideas and tips, I'll
be happy. Remember, I said my dealer got into Autodesk program at MY request.
So, if he does not handle my 3Dstudio future upgrades it will be at his
request. My character is such that I will not desert him after I asked him to
spend the front money to be an Autodesk dealer. My complaint was to agree with
the consensus here that Autodesk does not do customer support well and not to
complain about dealers expertise in 3Dstudio.
Don:
Fair enough. I respect loyalty.
Evan
Don,
Thanks for sharing, not only your opinions, but ideas of how we can improve.
I would love to to hire more support technicians, especially AutoCAD, but like
in any large company, our department is budgeted for only so many new hires
throughout the year. This would be an issue best addressed to Autodesks's
upper management.
Mr.Hardy's mis-adventure in our phone system definitely should not have
happened. I apologize for that. I would still like to get the original 800
number he called so I can track down why he was sent to our Retail Products
Division, then back to our Animator support line.
He should have been sent directly to our referral line and he would have been
handled properly. Even though Mr.Hardy probably didn't need a new dealer, our
receptionists could have called his dealer to nudge them into more appropriate
action.
Informing dealers that they are responsible for providing support and/or
recommending CompuServe for support is something I can reinforce. Whenever
dealers come to Autodesk for training, our Sysop talks to them about setting up
a CI$ account and what can be gained from CI$. I talk to them about their
support responsibilities to their clients. Perhaps it doesn't sink in all the
time.
Packages of AutoCAD still contain the AutoSIG disk. To my knowledge, 3DS and
our MM products have never been shipped with it. I'll send an email to some of
our product managers to find out why we don't and recommend that we should. My
Sysop will back me up on that.
""
$3000 to talk to one of you 4 about your products. Are you really trying to
insult your customers? No way, You just threw that in as a joke, right?
""
Sorry, the original pricing is $3000.00. No joke. Contracts were priced this
high so dealers wouldn't feel Autodesk is trying to compete with them. I'll
keep you all posted.
Bob Prokopp – Supervisor
Product Support – Autodesk, Inc.
Dear Bob,
I'm not a 3DS user, just a graphics professional who freelances doing hi-res 3D
stills and animations for video. I have a few partners who are in similar
situations. We've spent some time researching PC-based rendering tools, and
have come to the following conclusions:
1. 3DS is the best tool for the job, a masterful work that deserves all the
praise and recognition it gets. 2. The 3DS development effort is significant,
and the future of 3DS is bright. 3. The basic support channels are inadequate,
and negate the value of #1 and #2.
For the significant investment in 3DS, there doesn't seem to be even a *basic*
level of free support. No 90 days free, nothing. The dealers here in Chicago
say that they'll help me install it and get it running, but if I want any
support beyond that, _sure_, any of these dealers will sell me a support
contract. However…
For a startup operation like what we're attempting, the risk of investing $3k
in software is high, but doable. However, without basic support it's not
doable. I've been an MIS professional for 8 years, and have never met a dealer
who I didn't quickly surpass in technical expertise, whether it was
manufacturing software, graphics software, or whatever.
Dealers are concerned with selling *units*, and support quickly eats into the
small margins, so it's not their priority. I want a direct conduit to the
people who made the software, because 9 times out of 10, their the only people
with the right answers. Playing phone tag with a dealer, who really only acts a
liason between customer and manufacturer is a barrier I'd rather do without.
While my opinion probably doesn't mean squat at Autodesk, these are the reasons
we've come within inches of buying copies of 3DS, but stopped short. Just
thought I'd let you know for what it's worth.
Regards,
-Heinz.
Heinz:
>>I've been an MIS professional for 8 years, and have never met a dealer >>who
I didn't quickly surpass in technical expertise, whether it was >>manufacturing
software, graphics software, or whatever.
If your serious, I'll send you the names of a few 3DS dealers who'll be glad to
help you out on the phone for free, and who know more about 3DS than 99% of the
professional users.
Evan
Evan,
>> If your serious, I'll send you the names of a few 3DS dealers ……. who
know more about 3DS than 99% of the professional users.
Hmm, I doubt that! If a professional is using 3ds for their business,
presumably on a daily basis, it would be very hard for a dealer to match that
kind of dedication to 3ds AND still be a dealer.
Unless the dealer is also an animator, or the other way around…
Gus,
if the dealer is also an animator then he will probably know the same or less
than a professional 3ds user, but probably not more.
Martin:
>> Hmm, I doubt that! If a professional is using 3ds for their business,
>> presumably on a daily basis, it would be very hard for a dealer to match
>> that kind of dedication to 3ds AND still be a dealer.
You're right, it is difficult, but it happens! <bg>
Greg (user first, but also dealer) Pyros
Greg,
well you're an exception to the rule <g>.
Evan,
Thanks for the offer. I've gotten some e-mail regarding this topic, and I'll
get back to you if I need the names of some additional dealers.
->know more about 3DS than 99% of the professional users.
Wow, these guys must work 80 hour weeks! <g>
-Heinz.
Hello, Heinz
I'm sorry to hear that you and your partners have swayed away from 3D Studio
because Autodesk does not offer free support. You must realize that technical
support is a service and we do not take issue with dealers who wish to charge
for this type of service.
As I mentioned in a previous message, technical support is a complex issue that
cannot be resolved easily to benefit both dealers and customers.
I want to reassure everyone on this forum that all of these messages have been
forwarded to those responsible for support policy decisions at Autodesk.
Bob Prokopp – Supervisor
Product Support – Autodesk, Inc.
Bob,
Thanks for your reply. I realize tech support is a service, and I'd have no
problem paying someone to help me design a mesh, but if something in a program
isn't working properly, I would expect to be able to get assistance without
paying a gargantuan support fee.
I'm also finding out that not all dealers are the same, so I'm hoping to find
the ones who will work with us on a reasonable level.
Regards,
-Heinz.