#Internet Resources
52 messages in this thread
Doug,
I have uploaded a file, S-G-G.FAQ, which is a compilation of frequently
asked questions about the Internet newsgroup, sci.geo.geology. This newsgroup
covers many of the topics of interest here–geology, fossils, and mineralogy.
Let me know what you think.
There are similar FAQ files for sci.techniques.xtallography, which deals with
crystallography, and some other newsgroups. Is there an interest here in these
internet resources?
Nathan
Hi, Nathan–
Thanks, I look forward to examining that file. If no one expresses interest
in the xtallography info, I still expect someone will come along who can make
use of it – it would be a welcome upload.
–Doug
Doug,
I will go ahead and upload the FAQs from the news group
sci.techniques.xtallography. I think that some of people who visit this forum
will find it interesting. Perhaps it will give CIS a kick in the behind to
become a FULL internet provider. (CompuServe's delay has forced me to
subscribe to Delphi. As someone who detests Murdoch, I did not take this step
lightly. Help!)
In the May issue of Online Access, there is an article by Gary Robbins,
"Earth, Wind & Science: Online Resources for Professional and Amateur Earth
Scientists." It reviews the various commercial services rather critically, but
says the following, which I thought you'd find interesting:
"For bulletin boards, type Go Earth or Go Science. The section on
geology–tucked away in the Science Forum–is among the few that's worth
reading."
Nathan
I've heard of a better gateway being provided by InifNet (800-849-7214).
Cheaper, faster, ????
Hi, Nathan–
I am pleased to hear of that mention of us, and curious as to what other
resources he mentioned and what he said. Have you any idea how I could get a
copy of that issue?
–Doug
Doug,
I don't know whether Online Access is in the magazine database on CIS. The
magazine does have a compuserve address, which perhaps you can find in the
directory. If not, the next time I obtain a copy, I'll send you the addresses
and back issue info.
Nathan
Nathan,
I am not hooked into the Internet mainly because it seems like a devilish task
to find anything (so I've been told). I would be interested in learning more
about what is available. Are there professional geologists who use it for
discussions? Rumors? Kicking around ideas?
Frank L.
Frank
I have been visiting the Internet through American OnLine, and they are setting
it up to make it fairly easy. Currently all(?) the Newsgroups are accesible and
I have been reading the messages on sci.geo.geology. I may quit doing that,
they really aren't of much use or interest as compared to the cost of reading
them all. There generally are 10 or more messages per day, and even though AOL
gives you 5 hours access for your $9.95 monthly fee (and additional hours are
$4.95) the time is used up quite fast dealing with thes messages. They cover
just about everything geological, most are posted by geologists and some by
students asking for help. And even though many are interesting to read, most
are not actually useful to me. There has been very little having to do with
mining and rarely anything to do with mineral collecting, gems, lapidary, etc.
I do like reading the rocks and fossil newsgroup messages that Doug M.
subscribes to and uploads to this library however (thus I don't go to that
Newsgroup on the Internet but find it much more efficient to download Doug's
library file.
AOL is in the process of setting up WAIS and Gopher access to files and
information. They currently are shown as available, but are not fully
functional yet, at least I haven't been able to get to any of the geology
related sources.
Hope this helps.
Lanny
>> There generally are 10 or more messages per day, and even though AOL gives
you 5 hours access for your $9.95 monthly fee (and additional hours are $4.95)
the time is used up quite fast dealing with thes messages. <<
You can probably find access to the net for less money. I have a dial-up
account in San Diego that runs $15 per month for all services at 14.4kb. If you
use more than 3 hours per month that saves $ over AOL which only runs at 9.6kb
anyway.
– Mark E. Deardorff, Written 06-Jun-1994 @ 08:54:54
!^NavFont01F000FIGJHGB1IGB3HH726D1A
Mark
AOL now has 14.4kbs access to every area that can do it, I can't because Tymnet
really doesn't really give a s— about us and isn't changing the access. My
searches locally have only turned up a big negative for any other access to the
Internet other than AOL or other similar service. Any other access, such as
Spokane, WA would entail a long distance phone charge. One of these days these
"services" will realize that we will use their services more if they will give
us an equal rate and not try to squeeze pennies out of us.
Lanny
Is there a local university with Internet access? If you've got a friend there
(even in a geology department) they might be able to wrangle an account for you
on a local computer. You may need to learn Unix, but I'd think you'd find the
mail-reading much easier.
A local university? Sorry, but we haven't grown quite that big yet (N. Idaho).
There is a Community College in town with an active computer section.
Unfortunately, if I was able to use their access that would mean going down
there every couple days (at their convenience) to read the newsgroups, hardly
convenient. Although, it might be a good way to get access to geology database
for research on occasion.
They don't have a dial-up account that you could use?
I've never heard of one, but there might be. Unfortunately I don't know anyone
in the computer dept. and the geologist hasn't exactly been friendly, but there
may be a way.
I don't subscribe to any rock magazines, but I've heard you're a famous writer.
That and a smile should get you an account! And I say this as a fellow writer,
except I write for computer magazines…
Thanks, can't say much about the "famous" part but certainly am more famous
than "rich", but you probably know how much fun it is trying to make money
writing. I will try my smile at the college and see if it gets me any closer to
a speedy Internet connection.
Interestingly, I just checked the phone #s listed on the CIS services and found
none in Idaho or E. Washington that provide 9600bps service. Curious, there is
a Sprintnet number in E. Washington that I tried for 9600bps connection to AOL,
it worked fine, doesn't work for CIS. The local Tymnet number to connect to CIS
and AOL at 2400bps are the same.
Sounds like AOL is the best way for you to go. Here in San Diego we have a
service called cts.com. It costs $15 per month for a dial-in service and an
extra $7 for a SLIP connection. I have not, as yet, upgraded to a SLIP
connection. I fear too much power would suck me in to endless time wasting
sessions finding recipes for candied ostrich navels and other such trivia.<g>
– Mark E. Deardorff, Written 08-Jun-1994 @ 08:39:03
!^NavFont01F0006IGHHHw6FD8
How true. It is so easy to spend so much time on these connections that
everything else is meaningless (except mineral collecting).
Lanny
Lanny,
PMFJI, but did I hear you mention AOL at 14.4? If so, where, please. Right now
I also am stuck with Tymnet. Since I'm in NJ, if AOL has 14.4, they must have
it somewhere in the NY Metro Area……
DMG
David
Actuall I am only repeating a note from Steve Case, in which he stated that AOL
was updated to 14.4. Since I can't use it I certainly don't know for sure. He
did say that those of us on Tymnet were out of luck.
Lanny
I know AOL is up to 9600, but not necessarily 14.4.
Sorry John
That was my mistake, brain not in engaged while typing. 9600 it is. Stuck here
at 2400 bps, anything as fast as 9600 is like a dream and 14.4 just become
meaningless.
Lanny
1: I don't subscriber to any rock magazines, but I've heard your''re
2: a famous writer. That and a smile should get you an account!
3: And I sawy this as a a fweelellow writer, except I write for computer
m 4: agazine.s…
5: /post
Message # 134354 posted
OK David
It was 9600, not 14.4. Either one is a dream for me. I am going to see how
things work dialing the Spokane, WA number for a 9600 connection and see if
that will work to speed things up for downloading lenghty files, maybe that
will be a benefit over and above the phone bill.
Lanny
Lanny,
Thanks for getting back to me. I've been able to get 9600 occasionally, but I
ussually can't get onto that particular node. Oh well…. just another case of
the AOL blues. As far as big files go, if I run into something on AOL that
tweaks my interest, before I grab it off of AOL, I'll check & see if it's
available here on CI$. If it is, TapCI$ and 14.4 is the cat's nether region.
You probably will find that paying a phone toll to get faster access will save
you money, provided that you know what files you want and can navigate through
AOL's interface quickly. It's a real pity that there are no automated access
programs available for AOL.
DMG
David
I just checked out a long distance number to AOL, turned out to be a Sprintnet
# and connected at 9600, getting around AOL was not really much faster because
of all the menus to go through, but downloading a couple files definitely was
faster. The Internet connection for the geology Newsgroup was faster. So, it
may pay to use it if I know I am going to get a large file. Being a Sprintet
number at long distance I'm not sure where that extra expense will hit me (in
my AOL charge I guess, so I won't see exactly what it was).
Lanny
Lanny
Yikes! Did I see you say that you are stuck at 2400 for CI$? Now that is
archaic. I understand that AOL may be a bit behind the times as they are a new
player, and because of the way they are geared towards interactive access I can
accept not having an automated access program. However, let me agree most
strongly with Doug about automated access to CompuServe. I do still use CIM,
it's good for hunting around in the free areas, getting news and weather, etc.
But, for forum access or DL'ing large files, automated is the only way to go.
Since I've started using TapCis and a 14.4 node, I've been able to cut what I
spend to be on-line by about two thirds, INCLUDING the price I pay to the phone
company to connect to the node. Automate, automate, automate! Your computer can
find its way around CI$ much faster than you can, provided you tell it where to
go. I gather that you are a MAC user, so I can't reccomend any particular
program to you, but I'm sure that someone here will step in and tell you about
their personal favorite.
DMG
I've only heard of one Offline Reader for Macs and that's Navigator. I think
it has its own forum.
David
Apparently there is a Navigator for Mac. And when it takes 30 seconds or so to
go from one forum to the next I dream systems more convenient and quicker, but
will something automatic like that really get me there faster? There isn't much
time lost in making a selection of where to GO next, just in the time after
hitting enter until there, then a couple seconds to select the new messages
Icon, etc. Every second does count, but most of the time is in downloading and
the time it takes to go from one forum to the next.
I am stuck at 2400bps because the only connection here is Tymnet and that is
all they allow. I just love this faceless group that doesn't really care about
us.
Lanny
Lanny – check with your local long distance carrier for you LATA. With GTE, I
was able to get a 30% discount on all long distance calls to a particular group
of prefixes in Bellingham, WA where I connect with Tymnet. there is a $3.40
minimum charge a month which is no problem meeting. Understand that I am
connecting at 2400 bps. I could do better for total connect charge if I went
9600 bps and dialed into the Everett CIS node. But then I'd have to buy
another modem.
M
I guess there aren't any third party AOL readers, eh? Sure make CI$ worth my
bucks.
Third party AOL readers? I'm not sure what you mean.
Lanny,
There are many off-line readers for CompuServe so you can get messages,
files, mail quickly and disconnect to save money. Programs like OzCIS,
TAPCIS, NavCIS, AutoSIG, GoldenCommPass, etc.
I don't see AOL having that capability but then I've never tried it. I got
through the opening couple of screen and watched my system get slower and
slower. Zap! Bye-bye AOL. I found a nice use for the disks. I just type
'Format b:' !
Rich
>> GoldenCommPass <<
Haven't heard of that one.
Don't forget CISNAV(?) the new one from CIS.
I still like Tapcis, TappeT and Recon all working together the best. I use
NavCIS at my office but it still doesn't have all the features I would like.
Particularly thread marking and previously marked thread memory would be nice.
– Mark E. Deardorff, Written 08-Jun-1994 @ 08:41:54
!^NavFont01F000CIGJHGXIGZHHT0E87
Mark,
Golden CommPass is for the OS/2 crowd. I d/l'ed a demo but couldn't get it
to work well. Back to ATO
Rich
>> ATO <<
Autosig? I had forgotten about that one. Wasn't it like the first offline
tool?
– Mark E. Deardorff, Written 09-Jun-1994 @ 11:21:31
!^NavFont01F000DIGJHGMIGOHG4A3B31
I don't know. It's up to version 6.9a with the newest in beta testing. It's
got lots of features and best of all, it's free!
The demo version of Golden CommPass only works with some forums – those
beginning with IBM or OS2, as well as GCPSUPPORT. That might be part of the
problem.
I use GCP, and I'd never go back to ATO or Tapcis again! It's very, very nice.
But for me, here in low populationville, it is AOL, or nothing. Actually, I
don't even know what all CIS provides as far as using the Internet, that is why
I have been suing AOL, at least it is straight forward about its connections. I
know I can subscribe to the Newsgroups and have the messages dumped in my mail
box, but I don't see that as any advantage and may be more expensive when it
overloads than the way I have been using AOL for the Newsgroups.
I find these online services rather interesting in their approach to explaining
their sevices. They are the only thing I regularly use that coerce me to sign
up, pay a monthly fee plus additional charges, then provide nothing but online
time at a fee to show me what there services are and how to use them. A real
nice racket, the only other profession I can think of that does that are the
lawyers who charge you by the hour while they go to a law library to study up
on how to handle your case.
Lanny
Lanny
> ….why I have been suing AOL,…
Interesting idea! <G> If you feel stranded by a lack of local numbers, CI$
also has 800 number support. Unfortunately, it's also extra $$$'s.
The thing I really like about CI$ is my ability to get all my stuff,
disconnect, read the mail/messages, the upload responses. You can choose
the program you want to use for the interface. Can you do that in AOL? I
loaded the software, looked at it, saw the price, heard about the slow
response, and found I had another empty disk for backups. I already spend 2-3
hours reading CI$ stuff. No more time in the day for me.
Rich
Hi, Lanny–
I think we will hear about it in CIS' "What's New" when they have Internet
access to more than E-mail, and hope that a new CIM will come out that "knows"
how to use such things easily.
CIS and competitors seem to be evolving to a more novice-friendly stance, as
witness the arrival of CIM a couple of years ago. I do not know how far they
can carry this towards teaching you before you pay; only time will tell. Toll
roads offer little help in learning to drive or finding destinations – the
economics may be similar. But do remember there are connect-free PRACTICE and
HELPFORUM, and some free time at startup.
Richard's mention of 800 access into CIS may be worth considering – no Tymnet
charges, just a higher CIS connect time charge. GO RATES to get details if you
have not done so already. It might be a good way to get higher baud access for
heavy downloads, and uploads may be free of all charges this way.
The fact you are paying Tymnet as well as connect time makes it more important
to consider fully-automated access programs (I use OzCIS for MSDOS; for Macs
there is Navigator and maybe others) instead of CIM which allows only
semi-automated forum visits. Obtaining and learning to set one of these up may
be tougher than learning CIM, but you have used CIS enough to have learned the
basic forum concepts. And once learned and set up right, they can be as easy
to use as CIM, and save on timed costs.
Have you checked for cheaper dialing destinations, apart from baud rate
questions? If your long distance carrier gives you a discount for
frequently-called area codes, you might want to call a CIS number in an area
code you make lots of other calls to. If you are paying phone tolls, note that
a quirk in the regulatory structure may make medium distance "intra-LATA" (same
local phone company) calls more expensive than long distance calls. When I
lived near L.A., a call across the L.A. basin actually cost more than a call to
Wisconsin. You may be better off calling another state, or adding a prefix
selecting a long-distance carrier.
–Doug
Doug,
CIM is pretty good, and doesn't take long to learn the basics. It is fairly
convenient to downloading messages and files, and for navigating. But, I notice
that it can take from 30-45 seconds to change forums! The 800 number sounded
like it would be more expensive, charged at the rate the phone company charges
CIS, whereas the Tymnet connection is $1.75 per hour for off peak time. If the
800 number would allow 9600bps connection, it might be a bit cheaper for
downloading long files.
Navigator has sounded interesting, but it means downloading another long file
to save a little(?). Haven't done it yet.
Lanny
>> Navigator has sounded interesting, but it means downloading another long
file to save a little(?). <<
With automated access to messages and offline reply you might cut your bill by
50%. I certainly did when I went to Tapcis. I use it with TappeT and Recon. All
three are available in the Tapcis forum.
Navigator is nice. I have tried it but it doesn't have all the fetaures I
need. TappeT is a header processor that remembers previously downloaded threads
and marks them for you. It also shows which messages were previously bypassed
so you don't have to remember which are old and which are new. A real
timesaver.
Recon is a message reader and editor. It is very easy to use and threads and
sorts the messages. It even deletes duplicated messages and automatically ages
files.
– Mark E. Deardorff, Written 13-Jun-1994 @ 09:19:03
!^NavFont01F000FIGJHG57IG59HI847852
Thanks Mark
But, I see most of my time lost in the time it takes to get from one forum to
the next (20-30 seconds), and in downloading files. Not really much time lost
in getting to the messages. I can see where these would be so much quicker in
selecting new messages in a thread, but one still wants to look at the list of
messages and select new threads of interest. I expect that with automation and
9600bps I could automatically go to and download all files in the geology
section than what I do now at 2400 bps.
I guess a change is worth checking into.
Lanny
Hi, Lanny–
If I had a 9600+ bps modem, I would use it at 2400 bps when skimming through
several forums, because of that lag in switching forums and responding to other
commands, which is the same at any bps and thus more expensive at higher
connect charges.
For downloads of substantial files, I would want the highest speed, and your
choice then seems to be between a long distance call and the 800 number for
CIS, a choice which would depend on quirks in your long distance carrier's
charges for whatever area codes might make sense (my point was if they discount
a favorite area code, it might be cheaper to call across the country than to
the next county).
If you do find that Internet access by local call, bear in mind you could from
there "telnet" into CIS, avoiding Tymnet charges.
–Doug
Doug
Thanks to you and the others. Be sure and read my comments to David and Mark,
but a long distance call to a 9600 bps connection sure proved the difference.
On the calling charge, you are so right. It use to be that a call across the
border to Spokane was about 1/3 the rate for a short call as one the same
distance to a neighboring town in state. They're about the same now.
I'll see how it works using the long distance number for faster connections
when downloading files and check into the internet through the college.
But I would rather go collecting.
Lanny
Lanny,
One feature of delphi's news reader is that it allows you to mark messages as
read. The next time you access the group you can easily ignore the previously
read messages. Doing so allows you to fly through the newsgroups, and view
only what you want to see. Copying to either a capture file or a specific
message text file is easily done, and allows long posts to be read off line.
All in all, I did not find the process difficult.
Nathan
Nathan
AOL has the same deal. But, if you connect every 2-3 days, then there will be
20-30 or more new messages, all with nearly meaningless titles. I have found no
way but to either download them all (which certainly isn't quick and easy at
2400bps) or go through them and download only those that appear to be
useful/interesting after reading a paragraph or so. Either way, it takes a lot
of time.
Actually, it gets down to the fact that my connection at 2400 bps is only
slightly faster than a snail that's been snorting pepper spray, and most of the
messages have not been of much use, but sometimes of interest and
entertainment.
(Actually, a snail snorting pepper spray would probably be no faster than this
computer if the present thunderstorm should strike the wrong thing while I am
typing this–time to take a break and shut things down!).
Lanny
Frank,
There seem to be quite a few professional geologists on the "net." Some of
the places they seem to lurk are the mailing lists, which have been described
here, the news groups (see my message re sci.geo.geology), and the ftp and
gopher resources. I haven't been lurking in these places long enough to judge
their value to me, but I admit I'm hooked for now.
I do admit that it can be hard to locate specific resources, and it's worth
purchasing or borrowing one of the many books on internet resources, such as
the Internet Yellowpages. I used up tthe free 5 hours offered by delphi in no
time! (How's that for an oxymoron!!)
Nathan
Nathan – I am quite interested in geology related areas on the Net, but don't
have the wherewithal to pursue them at this time. I'm so remote that I have to
use a carrier pigeon to send messages to the nearest telegraph operator, who
then sends them to a Marconi station in Nebraska, where they are transcribed
into magnetic records on a wire-recorder, mailed to New York where they are
transferred to 8-Track cassettes. I think someone at Compuserve has a 74 Dodge
Dart with an 8-track player installed. So far my only options for upgrading
have been to increase my "bird" rate.
Michael (prying tongue from cheek)
Actually, you could sign up for the Exec PC BBS in Milwaukee, which you can
reach through the Compuserve network, believe it or not. It's the largest BBS
in the world, and they offer Internet access, too. They're about to add PPP
and SLIP, which would make it possible for you to become a *real pit stop on
the Info Super-HypeWay(TM).* Exec PC is about $70 a year, plus CIS expenses.
Hi Michael,
Don't they offer a satellite dish connection for you outliers? Perhaps you
can get your pre-industrial village to install a T1 line to a nearby city??
Nathan
Our school district's 5 yr plan is to convert their phone system to T1 and
network all the schools as well. A side benefit of this will be community
access to Internet via a local call to the school multiplexer.
I have trepidations about the capital expenditure, it wouldn't pass my
company's admittedly Ferengish criteria. But for a relatively remote (by
today's standards) town of 12,000 , the Internet and some other statewide
services will prove beneficial.
Michael
P.S. – I will be in the Claymont, DE area for at least two days July 19-20th. I
want to try and take an additional day off to visit either Calvert Cliffs or
look for those mine dumps near Phoenixville.