#A500 & 1 MB Agnus
75 messages in this thread
September 14, 1990
One Megabyte Agnus use in Commodore A500 Computers.
Commodore Business Machines does not support the One Megabyte addressing
feature of the Fat Agnus 8372 IC in A500 computers.
Regardless of the version of Fat Agnus, all A500's have been factory jumper
set to be functionally identical.
8370 Fat Agnus chips are used on Rev 5 boards with 256 x 1 DRAMs. 8372 Fat
Agnus chips are used on Rev 6a boards with 256 x 4 DRAMs. The boards are
functionally interchangable. Each will support 512K of chip RAM and 512K of
expansion RAM with an A501 installed.
Enabling the One Megabyte feature, at the customers' request, will void the
warranty. Instructions detailing the implementation of the ONe Megabyte
addressing feature have been circulated without Official Approval and
Commodore does not assume any liability for damages resulting from this
mode of operation in the A500.
_________________________________________________________________________
I was asked to post the above statement so that everyone knows Commodore's
official stance on the A500/Agnus situation.
Dave
Commodore Online Relations
I don't see any distinction between the A500P and the A500C. Is that
because there isn't any?
THol() { cout << "Sir, I exist." ;}
the 500P has 1 Meg the 500C has 512k
BEN Leigh's Computer's
Ben,
Technically…you're wrong. The A500c and A500p are exactly the
same hardware. The difference in the packages is what extras come bundled
with the computer.
But yes, since the 500p comes with the A501 expansion RAM board,
then in total…the 500p does come with 1 Meg while the 500c isn't bundled
with expansion RAM so it only has 512K.
Don
that's what I said I didn't say there were any other differences
(physically) all I said was one came with one meg and one had 512k wich is
true.
BEN Leigh's Computer's
I thought we went through this already inthe Amiga forums. There are TWO
varieties of A500-P. One is based on the Rev.5 motherboard; A 512K machine
with an A501 packaged with it. The other variety is a new Rev.6 or 6a
motherboard with 1MB DRAMs on it and the A501 slot unused. In my mind,
Rev.6 motherboard is the true A500P, naturally.
Chris,
Commodore may or may not have made a few A500's with 1 Meg on the
motherboard….I've never seen one, but I haven't really been looking for
one either.
However, from Commodore's official publication (and also as
reported by Dave Minnich here)…the A500p and the A500c are the exact same
hardware, the difference is what comes bundled with it. The A500p comes
bundled with the A501 512k RAM expansion board. The A500c doesn't. There
are differences in the software bundled also.
BTW, on those machines you say exist with 1 Meg on the motherboard,
where is the battery backed clock/calendar…on the motherboard also?
Don
Don, I have not seen a Rev.6 motherboard, either. The direct references to
them are in the back of my head somewhere (fishing..). I would expect the
clock/battery to be on the motherboard, though I've not heard anything on
this detail.
Hi Ben,
What I was driving at was that Commodore's Fat Agnus policy makes no
distiction between the Consumer model and the Professional model. I could
imagine a more complex policy which would say "You can do thus-and-so with
a P, but not with a C." It might make the P _even_more_ attractive.
Oh, I got it Tom. You know what I find strange about thier upgrade policy
on the 500s is that before they shipped machines (500s) with the new Agnus
they had no quals about upgrading the A500 to One meg chip RAM, and even
sent instructions on how to do it to authorized service centers (with no
"this will void the warranty")!
BEN Leigh's Computer's
Tom,
Since there is no difference in the hardware, why should Commodore
make a distinction that doesn't exist?
Don
Don, here is just one of the reasons for Commodore to distinguish between a
package intended for the budget-professional market and one intended for
the consumer market. "The A500P, which is sold only by Amiga Dealers, may
be upgraded to a full 1 MB of CHIP memory. This additional CHIP memory is
useful in graphics-intensive applications such as desktop publishing."
THol() { cout << "Sir, I exist." ;}
Tom,
Ok…I buy an A500p here in Denver. A month later I move to New
York. A month later, I decide I want the 1 Meg CHIP upgrade. How do I
prove that the A500 I bring into the dealer's is a 'p' machine vs a 'c'
machine?
Ok…Commodore puts a sticker on the machine saying it's a 'p'
model, so that problem is solved. Now, since there is 0 difference between
my 'p' model and Joe Blow's 'c' model other than the sticker…how does the
dealer justify upgrading my machine, but not Joe's?
I don't know the list pricing on the 2 models, but surely there's
not that much difference…but even if there were…would it satisfy the
customer of the 'c' model if the dealer said, "Well…Don paid an extra
$XXX for that privledge". What then if Joe says, "Ok, I'll pay that extra
amount also"
BTW, any look at the price difference would have to include Joe
buying an A501.
No…since the base hardware is the same…the treatment ofthe
machine must be the same also.
The only way for Commodore to handle allowing the 'p' model to be 1
Meg CHIP and the 'c' model not to be…would be for the 'p' to come from
the factory with it already enabled. Since at this point in time, they
have decided not to do that…then both machines must be treated the same
since they are the same machine.
Don
Either that, or sell the A500p with jumpers for the 1MB CHIP mod.
Chris,
That's a possibility…but would reqiure a 2nd production line for
A500p models. As it stands now…since they're the same machine, one line
would suffice.
Don
Don –
Both machines carry the same sugg. retail price = $799
– Roy Pahnke –
Casper, Wyomin'
Roy,
Then, if they both have the same suggested list, using Tom's logic,
the A500c owner would have the gripe…since after buying the A501, he'd
have actually paid more for his machine than an A500p owner did.
Don
Don,
Yes, but the 500c owner is getting more software with his machine and a
RF mod. for use with a TV (A520).
IMHO – C= should abandon the 512k Agnus all together and put the 1meg
chips in all machines.
– Roy Pahnke –
Casper, Wyomin'
Roy,
Yes, I'm aware of that…but it still blows Tom's argument out of
the water.
Don
Tom,
As to the base computer…no, there is no difference. The only
difference between the 2 is the bundled extras.
Don
THol,
The only difference between the A500C and the A500P is the included
peripherals. In my earlier statement that the A500P was to have 1 Meg on
the motherboard, I was wrong. It will remain an A500/A501 bundle.
BTW….I KNOW you exist!! And don't call me "Sir"!! 😀
Dave
Commodore Online Relations
Dave,
Any idea on the reasoning behind this? The insinuation seems to be that it
can damage the machine.
Since we started passing along what you said previously about this, we have
been accused by some customers of trying to force them to buy a 2000 to get
1 meg of chip memory. This along with all their friends telling them how
THEIR 500 has 1 meg of chip.
Can you give us some firm ground to stand on in this?
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
Greg,
I'm just guessing and hopefully Dave will give you the definitive
answer, but, IMHO, it's a marketing decision and has nothing to do with the
hardware at all.
Greg,
Certainly Dave will have some answer for you, but here is a list of
GUESSES as to their reasons:
1. Because that's the way it is.
2. Marketing. They may wish to separate the 500 from the rest of
the line and this is one way to keep it that way.
3. Because the modification of the motherboard may be enough to
require the machine be re-certified.
4. Because they still have a stock of machines with the 512K only
Agnus (8370) and don't want those buyers to feel "cheated" since to
upgrade, they'd have to not only pay for the modification..but a new Agnus
also. But others would only have to pay for the modification since the
particular machine they bought may have had a 1 Meg Agnus (8372) in it from
the factory.
5. Because they've had a fair number of "defective" machines
returned where the defect was caused by the modification.
If MicroSearch wants…why can't they continue to do the
modifications and provide warranty coverage themselves…rather than via
Commodore. Just so they notify customers of that prior to making the
modification…I see no problem with it…that is, if your service
agreement with Commodore doesn't prohibit making unauthorized
modifications.
Don
[There were two key phrases:
1) this will void the warranty….
2) procedures were distributed __WITHOUT OFFICIAL APPROVAL__ (by CBM
personnel, the unsaid fact).
It has come to my attention that there is a sticker on A500s that if
removed, voids warranty. This means that besides the 1 Meg hack, adding
internal memeory also voids the warranty – For at least the first year.
CBM Engineers have said many times how to perform the 1 Meg hack. The
statement of lack of approval is IMHO, an indication of an internal power
struggle going on inside CBM.
Think about it, if CBM was to admit reality, who would be better qualified
to make the change? A CBM service center or some kid with a butcher knife
and a 300 watt soldering iron?
I tend to agree 33% of this is your guess #2 and 17% your guess #4 and 50%
big brother telling the world their vision of how we are going to behave.
-Greg
Greg,
Let's clarify a few issues:
1. The reasons stated by me were 100% guess on my part, and the
message I posted stated that.
2. There are no "CBM engineers". Engineering works for Commodore
International. CBM is the United States distribution company for Commodore
products. CBM makes it's own policy on what is/isn't distributed, how it's
distributed, what warranty will be offered, what specials, etc. in the US.
Thus what engineering says is ok, may or may not be in line with the
distribution company's policy.
Yes…they work in the same building, but under different
organization charts.
3. Why would it surprise you that modifying the hardware will void
the warranty? If you got a Rejuvenator back for warranty repair and found
someone had hacked out one of hte chips and replaced it…and left globs of
solder all over…would you honor the warranty? If you bought a new car,
took it to a speed shop and had them double the horsepower of the engine
and then found the rear-end got ripped out by too much torque…would you
expect the new-car dealer to honor the warranty and replace the rear end?
Yes…the car analogy isn't exact…changing Agnus isn't the same
as souping up an engine.
4. Authorized repair shops have replacement stickers, so if an
authorized shop, does an authorized modification, upgrade or repair, the
new sticker will be put on and your warranty will continue.
6. If a modification alters the RF characteristics of the machine,
and Commodore authorized that modification without it being type accepted,
Commodore could lose it's ability to distribute the machines in the US.
This is NOT to say that changing the Agnus would alter the RF
characteristics, but other internal additions, such as an internal RAM
board certainly could. Thus if CBM authorized uncertified upgrades to
current machines…they could be in deep kaka.
Don
Don, Basically, I agree with everything you said.
About CBM Engineers, yes you are right, they are part of CBM Intl, but that
doesn't alter teh fact that these people have been telling how to upgrade
on most boards they are on. The point I was trying to get across is the
'from unapproved sources; portion of the message. They are complaining
about leaks from within the company(s) themselves.
I would bet that if you order an Agnus from the Developer program, the A500
data sheet will no longer be included.}i
My biggest problem with this whole warranty business is it is another
attack, or an attempt to control, third party hardware developers. As you
pointed out, there are replacement stickers once the machine has been
opened. However, these will only be for 'authorized repairs'. This means a
user has to wait a year to add the least expensive RAM or an Accelerator.
Using your car analogy, should Ford be blamed if I put a bigger engine in
my car that doesn't pass smog emissions? No. It belongs on the
accelerator/Ram manufacturer, installer's and owner's sid
IF anything, RF will be less when the 1 meg Agnus is in place. The same
lines are active and the 1 meg agnus is already in use in the Rev 6a
motherboards. The upper 512K will be in less use when all of it is enabled
into chip R., rather than split.
-Greg
Don,
re your reasons:
1. Possible.
2. Probable.
3. A 2000 requires 1 jumper move and 1 trace cut. A 500 requires 1 solder
bridge and 2 trace cuts. Can't see a real bunch of difference here.
4. All of the 500's we have been getting in for the last several months
have had 8372's in them. We never had a problem with the customer
complaining. We just told them when they came in and want the 1 meg
upgrade that they may or may not have the 1 meg chip already
installed. We opened up the machine in front of them and let them
see for themselves. This seems no different than the people who
bought machines with 1.2 KS in them and need to upgrade to 1.3 for
autoboot reasons.
5. Don't know. We've certainly never had to return any machines for
this reason. I have repaired a lot of them for people who tried
to do it themselves.
Lastly, I don't know. What if we do the upgrade and then the owner moves to
California? Will another dealer honor his warranty? What about the
machines we already did before CBM told us this?
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
Greg,
IF the owner moves out of the area…that's their problem, just as
long as you let them know before you do the upgrade that from that point
on, their Commodore warranty is void, and they'll have to return the
machine to MicroSearch for repairs. If they accept that, and later move,
that's their decision…and they knew before hand what problem it could
cause them.
On those repairs you did for customers who tried the upgrade
themselves and messed it up. Did you charge for the repair? If so, why is
that any different than a voided warranty. When a warranty is voided, it
simply means that the customer now pays for the repair if something goes
wrong.
It certainly doesn't mean the machine is now useless.
As to the earlier upgrades…did anyone in your shop call CBM, or
did anyone talk to your rep and get an approval to make the modifications
within the warranty period…and not void the warranty?
Don
Don,
The repairs were handled just like any other owner-caused problem. But this
isn't the real question.
People have been sold 500's thinking that at a future date they can have
their 500 upgraded to 1 meg chip by an authorized dealer without voiding
their warranty. They think this because they have plenty of friends who
have already done it with no hassle, no voided warranty problems.
When they tell their friends what happened then the friends come back to us
wondering why when they had an upgrade done by an authorized dealer their
warranty is now void.
Why should we have called CBM or our rep? I didn't call them when I
received materials telling how to upgrade 4.1 motherboards to 4.5 either.
As I and several other techs here have stated, we received tech information
from Commodore telling us how to upgrade both the 500 and 2000 to 1 meg
Agnus. Nothing was said about this voiding the warranty of a customer's
machine.
Can I now look forward to hearing from CBM next month that the motherboard
upgrades I have done now void the customer's warranty?
I'm sorry, but unless CBM can justify this on technical grounds – and I
really doubt this- I can only believe that they are trying to cripple the
500 to force people who want to do video to buy the 2×00 or 3000. I have
probably upgraded in excess of 150 500's in the last 2 years and I have
never, ever had a problem with one.
I think it is too late for CBM to try and get the horse back in the barn on
this. He's long gone.
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
Greg,
Let's put it this way….several months ago, I told you that this
was my understanding of Commodore policy and that I had seen this
informatioin posted elsewhere from what appeared to be official sources.
On receiving that information…did you bother to call Commodore
then and get authorization…or did you figure since you had the tech tips
you had a green light to modify the A500's?
Getting a tech tip on how to modify older machines, and getting
authorization on voiding/not voiding warranties on newer machines are two
different things.
Yes, there should have been a note that "This is an authorized bug
fix", "This is how to upgrade if the customer demands it, but be aware that
the customer's warranty is voided by this procedure", etc.
There wasn't…either way. Nothing said this will, nor did it say
it won't void the warranty.
Don
As of today, 21 Sep 1990, we still have not received official written
notice from CBM rescinding their upgrade for the A500 1 meg chip mem. The
only official notice I have seen was Dave Minnich's posting of the few days
ago.
I say 'rescinding' because I had what I considered to be official sanction
from CBM to perform the upgrade in the same form and style as all the other
upgrades and fixes that we received from them. Why would I question them?
Am I really required to call and confirm every upgrade bulletin we receive
from them?
Another thing, if this was not the 'official' upgrade notice, how come we
never received a separate notice on how to upgrade the A2000 to 1 meg chip
mem. I'm assuming that this is still an 'official' upgrade, at least this
week. 😉
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
Greg,
You might listen to your customers…carefully, but you sure as
heck don't listen to anyone else.
Dave is an official represenative of Commodore, he has posted a
notice that making that upgrade will void the customer's warranty.
If you choose to continue with the upgrades, you may very well end
up with some very unhappy (but listened to) customers.
If it's still unclear in your mind what is permitted, and what
isn't…I would suggest you call Commodore at your first opportunity and
find out exactly what is and what isn't permitted without voiding the
warranty.
Don
Excuse me, Don, but I don't think you have been listening TO me.
I have never said that I was going to continue doing the upgrades since
Dave's posting of several days ago. (Altho I don't really make that
decision, the boss does.)
I have, however raised questions concerning –
1. Why we are only now receiving 'official' notice of this change?
2. Why if this was an unofficial upgrade, did we receive it in the same
form as the other 'official' upgrades, i.e. Rev. 4.x to 4.5 motherboard
upgrade, loss of keystroke on old keyboards, DMA fix on U605, and
replacement of Motorola 68000 with Signetics version?
3. Why if the A500 mod is unofficial and the A2000 mod is official, did we
never receive a separate 'official' upgrade notice on the A2000 by
itself?
4. What about the customers who had this mod done in good faith by an
authorized dealer? Is CBM now saying they have no warranty?
5. What about the people who bought the early shipments of the 500P's with
the 1 meg Agnus enabled? If they bring a 500P in, can I do a warranty
repair on it, or do I have to turn them in to CBM? (I can see no
difference between these factory modified machines and the dealer ones.
They all have the same 2 trace cuts and 1 solder bridge with no
revision change or sticker that I can find.)
6. Why if this is such well-known knowledge, has our local CBM rep from
Austin (in Houston today, 22 Sep 1990, for a show/sale at our store)
heard nothing about this (He said he'd look into it)?
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
Greg,
You'll have to ask CBM for those answers…I don't work for CBM.
My point was, what did you do after I told you months ago (about 2)
that I had heard this was policy? Yes, I realize the information I passed
on was about 3rd hand, but wouldn't it have been wise to check it out then?
Don
I also told you that Commodore told us that the A500 upgrade was *not*
supported. You certainly did not listen to me. I was one of the folks
blasted by you for saying that it was not supported.
Anyway, your issues sound like an issue for Commodore not the general
public. I suggest that you contact Commodore.
We contacted Commodore, when the question first arose.
-mark= Video Computer Retailers
Hello.I'm just curious as to what the max Ram in a Amiga 2000 is.(1 meg is
standard with it right?) Also what is the max Ram available for a Amiga
3000 25 mhz? 3 rd If I use a Multisynch monitor with the A2000 will I still
need to get a flicker fixer? Also whats the approx price of a 100 meg HD
for the A2000? Thanx alot from a Atari STe user who wnts to get into
Desktop Video
Peter,
It gets complicated, but essentially, an A2000, with a 2 Meg AGNUS
chip can go to 10 Meg of RAM. But, depending on what boards you've added,
some of that address space can be used by the board…thus reducing the
amount of real RAM available. In practical terms…this shouldn't be a
limitation on the user.
I forget the maximum amount of RAM you can add to an A3000. I
*believe* it's 16 Meg…but could be wrong.
A multi-sync monitor, if it covers the 15.75kHz horizontal sync
range will work as is with an A2000..no other hardware is needed. If you
wish to add a 'flicker fixer' or other de-interlacer board, then a monitor
capable of 31.5kHz hsync is required…which most multi-syncs will go to.
With an A3000….the equivalent of a FlickerFixer is built in.
I've seen 100 Meg HD's priced in the $600 or so price range,
depends on manufacturer..speed of the drive, etc. Most, if not all the
drive interface hardware available for an A2000 is now SCSI. Once you've
got the host adapter…the choice of drive is pretty much up to you.
Don
Thanx Bro one more question. When is the flicker fixer neccessary? At a
particular Rez or Speed or what? Also I'm interested in GVP accelerators
with 4 meg upgrade in em( ever use any o them? thanx
Peter,
Depends on what you call "necessary". When in high resolution
modes ( 320 or 640 x 400) the interlace causes the screen to appear to
flicker when there is high contrast between 2 adjacent horizontal lines.
This can really bother some folks, others aren't as bothered by it.
Speed has nothing to do with it…no matter how fast the Amiga is
running, the video is the same.
No idea on GVP products…I don't use them, so won't comment on
them.
Don
Thanx for the info.I saw the Amiga World Animation tape and saw what looked
like flicker.Have ya seen the tape? It's in the Sentinal animation,and if
thats the extent of the flicker I can definitely live with it
I haven't seen that tape, but can tell you that if you choose the
wrong colors, flicker can be quite severe.
Don
Peter,
I have the GVP accelerator with 4 MB of 32 bit ram, math chip and the 40
MB Hard drive. I'm quite pleased with mine, and I have yet to really
stress it, even with my mania for utilities. The are very well engineered,
much better than anything I've seen in the PC world, and seem to be worth
the price.
I have run into some software incompatibilities, for instance, I get
interesting effects with Jet, but with it runs fine with all my non-game
software. It's just this side of awesome to see it calculate a full screen
mandelbrot at two scanlines per second, and this is with only the 25 MHz
model.
Anyway, no complaints here. Hope this helps.
Brian J. Bartlett
Thanx Dude I'm gonna probably get the 28 mhz one for the A2000 What is the
benefits of getting the 68882 added in there? Will Turbo Silver or Sculpt
4D take advantage of it? Thanx.BTW the price on the 4 meg 030 25 mhz is
GREAT I've seen it for as low as $860
16 megs is the maximum amount of ram you can add to the 3000 _motherboard_,
but it can take additional memory PICS in any of the ZORRO 3 slos. The 3000
can address over a gigabyte of memory.
Don,
The A3000 can have 18 meg on the motherboard. However, the address space of
the 68030 is 2.2 GIG. After subtracting CBM's reserved area, I think a 3000
can address about 1.7 GIGs of memory.
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
The maxium RAM on an A3000 is 64 MBytes. RAM, not hard drive. To get to
64 MB would entail installing a memory card in every slot, but disk
controller, video, audio, serial, parallel are all on the motherboard so a
64MB A3000 is practical and as easy to implemen as signing a check.
THol() { cout << "Sir, I exist." ;}
Thanx for the info From a STe user to a soon to be Amiga user
Thol,
I don't see where you're getting your 64mb 'max' on the 3K from. I see
no limits on the bus (well, no _practical_ limits, <4gig of course). You
can put 16mb of FAST ram on the mother board (+ two of chip). I see no
reason that someone couldn't make a 64mb (or even 128 or 256mb) addin card.
The size required for the memory chips is plummeting with 16m and 64m chips
reputed to be on the horizon.
Victor A. Wagner, Jr.
C= did show some dev a 32 meg card and according to the specs the A3k can
go upto 1.7 gigabytes, so it seems your right.
BEN Leigh's Computer's
Ben,
I'm kinda looking forward to a 128meg card <grin>. Yes, I actually have
an application that becomes feasable if that much memory is available, and
not until.
Victor A. Wagner, Jr.
What aplication!?!?!?!?!???
BEN Leigh's Computer's
Thomas,
The A3000 does not have a 64MByte memory limitation! The motherboard
will accept 16MByte of RAM, and you can install upto 4 cards into the
ZorroIII slots. Each of those cards could hold, currently 8MByte, and in
the future as much as could be packed onto one. A reasonable size would be
64MByte per card.
The current ZorroIII spec allows for in excess of 1GigaByte of RAM. This
is the room reserved in the memory map for user memory.
Dean
DKB Software
Well, 64MB is a fair estimation of how much you could actually push a 3000
up to _today_, which is all that really matters to most people 😎
Of course with that much memory, you might as well buy a UPS and make a 50
MB RAD: disk, and you could forgo a hard disk altogether!
-Mike
Mike,
Actually with the currently available memory boards, the best you could
do TODAY is 26Mbytes. (2Meg CHIP, 16Meg on the motherboard, and 8Meg on a
ZorroII card. The 8Meg ZII card would fill the ZII memory space, so no more
ZII expansion is possible) Any more than this would require a ZorroIII
memory card, which hasn't been released (designed?) yet.
Dean
DKB Software
Greg,
I don't know what the reasoning behind it is, but I will find out for you.
Dave
Commodore Online Relations
Thanks,
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
Greg,
Happy to help when I can. 🙂
Dave
Commodore Online Relations
Dave:
I think we'd ALL be interested in knowing the facts behind this, since we
have seen messages from at least two _official_ Commodore Amiga retail
stores that they received instructions on how to upgrade a 500 to 1 meg
chip ram _from_ Commodore, in writing!
?|^] Ray Lewis
WE (VIDEO COMPUTER RETAILERS) in Cheseapeake Va., when approached on the
question of the A500 chip memory upgrade decided that we should call
Commodore, and we did. We knew this policy for the last two months!
We did recieve a 'tech tip' but we don't usually consider them policy until
we get something that says 'policy' 🙂
Anyway, I am almost sure this is a move to seperate the Amiga 500 line from
the 2000 line of computers. I believe in the end it will be a good move,
even if it does upset current A500 owners.
-mark=
Mark,
What were you doing about 1 meg upgrades on the 500 prior to two months
ago? We've had that 'tech tip' as you call it for over a year.
And to confuse things even more, as I had previously mentioned here, the
first shipment of the new 500P's that we received had the 8372A installed
and ACTIVATED! Does this mean that the purchaser's warranty was void the
day they bought the machine? How are these machines going to be handled?
I think it is too late for CBM to try to do this. The cat is out of the
bag.
Greg
P.S. None of the technical info we've gotten from CBM says 'Policy' on
them. 😉
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
We have *never* done a A500 chip upgrade.
Usually our upgrade notices come in the form of an annoucement that such
and such is available or soon to be. For example the announcement of 2.0
for the A2000. Even if somebody from Commodore sends a tech tip saying how
to do a 2.0 upgrade on a 500, we will *not* do it until it is announced as
a product by Commodore. It really is not that difficult to figure out what
announced products are vs. unaunounced ones.
I don't know what to say about machines that were shipped with the 1 meg
chip, but you know as well as I that Commodore will honor those machines
warranty.
I think the dealers are wanting (at least as a dealer we want this) a more
distinctive difference between the a500 and the A2000 series, and this
certainly is more distinctive.
I don't think it is too late. I think that it should be a bit more concise
however, we have stewed for several months where we should not have had
too.
-mark=
Mark,
We never received any sort of 'announcement' for upgrading the A2000 to 1
meg of chip mem either. 'Announcements' seem to be issued for new products,
not upgrades. Why would the 1 meg upgrade be announced as a new product?
As I have said previously, we did not receive any sort of 'tech tip' on
this. The copy of the upgrade procedure we received had the same heading
and style as the other upgrades, i.e. the fix for lost keystrokes on old
keyboards, the upgrades for 4.x motherboards, and the DMA fix for the
resistor across U605. To the best of my knowledge these were never
'announced' as a new product either.
re the CBM upgraded machines, How will anyone know that these came from CBM
that way and weren't done by the owner? I looked at one of these machines
and unless they know what serial numbers were modified, it will be
impossible for any dealer to know. There were the same two trace cuts and
the one solder bridge. There appeared to be no new stickers or revision
numbers.
Under the new CBM policy as posted by Dave Minnich, if a customer who has
one of these machines comes in for a warranty repair, I will look at the
machine and tell him he no longer has a warranty as he has had an
unauthorized modification done to his machine. Boy, will he be mad! How
will I know who did the upgrade?
I STILL think this has dragged on too long without official word from CBM
and it is too late to stop it now without a lot of problems.
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
I own 2 A500 systems, Mark, and the whole issue does not upset me with how
the A500 is perceived. However, Commodore's actions seem to have needed
some clarification (and I think we got it).
In the end, what concerns me is only that the 500 is a legitimate Amiga
and it's well-known that the 8372 upgrade works well with it. Warranty
considerations should be made when choosing the model of Amiga, and I doubt
you will see A2000's to 3000's in Apex or Sears for a very long time. I
think what may eventually come of this is that only the 500p is supported
through the upgrade. But right now, it's tough to distinguish them from the
500C.
That may indeed happen. Who knows.
The hardware folks at Commodore have told us that there were several
revisions of the motherboard that did not accept the 1 meg chip upgrade at
all, and in fact would damage the machine seriously. Is this true? I
don't know. I don't think we intend to find out. 🙂
My gut feeling says this is not true, but who should know better than the
manufacturer?
-mark=
I have heard of upgrade problems concerning the A500 rev.6 motherboard
(perhaps the reason for the development of 6a).
Ray,
As soon as I get the reasoning behind the announcement, I will post it
here. I had no intention of just sending it to Greg, as it is something of
interest to all, not just him.
Dave
Commodore Online Relations
Some MOS chip resellers apparently have received special 8372 installation
instructions for the A500 from *Commodore*, as claimed by one advertiser in
a recent AmigaWorld.
From this, it seems to me that although Commodore will not accept any
responsibility for such an upgrade, it is dealing with it in some way.
Dave,
Did CBM give any reason as to why they don't support it? When I couldn't
find a dealer who would do my A500 (and they couldn't give a reason other
than CBM would yank their dealership) I did it myself. After all, the
board is out of warranty.
Took me all of ten minutes to strip the machine down, swap Agnus chips and
make the changes to the traces. The system has worked fine for me with no
glitches.
I had upgraded to 5 meg of ram, but it wasn't until I upgraded to 1 meg of
chip mem that it REALLY became useful.
Could it be that CBM would rather have 500 owners selling them and buying
2000's? I spent a small fortune on my A1000 starting back in '86 and
either hung, bought or made every accessory and option on it. Then it
became outdated. (along with my audio and video digitizers, like my
Digiview 1.0).
So I got an A500 (couldn't afford a 2000) and in the last year, have
expanded it to 4 meg fast, 1 meg chip, and 3 scsi HD's for a total of 114
meg of storage.
A person like me is not going to drop all that and spend even more money
just to get another 512K of chip mem.
Dave,
I'm interested in upgrading my A500 to the 1 Meg chip ram level. How
did you know which traces to cut/change?
Rob
>How did you know which traces to cut/change?
I wormed it out of one of the techs in town who had done a bunch of them.
He showed me on the QT as his boss had layed down the law on orders for
CBM.
There used to be some files floating around the bbs' with complete
instructions and digitized IFF pics. Plus anyone who bought their 1 meg
Agnus mail order before CBM put out the word, usually got complete
instructions and a free chip puller.
You might ask around at your local user's group for help. Or buy your
local dealer's tech lunch and bribe it out of him.
I've heard that the reason CBM may have stopped that practice was that one
of their engineering "improvements" resulted in a hardware bug in A500's
with 1 meg of chip mem. It basically results in timing problems with the
Gary chip which among other things has a lot to do with floppy drive
access.
It's not a modification for the technically squeemish or inept. There is a
"jumper" consisting of three solder pads. Two of them are connected with a
trace (very thin one), similar to the way you changed device numbers on the
old 1541 C-64 disk drives. You have to cut the one trace away and bridge
the middle pad to the remaining pad. Then you have to cut one other trace
to the Agnus chip. The best place to do it is near the A501 expansion
slot. That way, if it doesn't work, you can easily bridge the cut trace,
restore the "jumper" pads back to original and you're back to a functional
512K chip mem A500.
It's best to have someone show you where all this stuff is, as going from a
description could result in cutting the wrong traces and I won't be
resposible for someone blowing their Amiga out. ;-D
Robert, I know a fellow who recently did his own A2000 Agnus chip upgrade,
which involves cutting the traces you mention. He uploaded a file that
explained the procedure. You might GO FILEFINDER and search for 'Agnus',
'Chip', etc to locate the file. Hope this helps.
–jp–seattle–
Well, it is a pain to make it work, but it does work. Voiding the warrenty
doesn't really bother me because I've never (knock wood) had a problem so
big that only Commodore could correct it.