CompuServe Thread

Mike, It is great you come to this forum and speak so openly. They don't make those Presidents like that no more! It makes us, the guys using your programs, better appreciate what it is at the stake on the other side… I am curious if you ever look into the most succesful Windows and Mac interfacs around and try figure out what makes people to get hooked up… Take a look how Adobe changed the Illustrator from 3 to 5 on the Mac. How well thought out is PhotoShop… How convenient it is to do things in CorelDraw… How much fan to work with is Kay PowerTools texture explorer. (This is the kind of immediate visual feedback that is needed for your procedural textures and materials…) Maybe you need to get away from Imagine every now and than <g> Pawel

Actually, I'm fooling with a beta copy of Windows 4.0 now. (we are part of their developer network). Pretty slick stuff, but it IS a beta. Speaking of which, I will be glad to forward specific suggestions when I get the stuff. And if you need someone to try out your new code on the new machine… Let's just say I'll be available whenm it is! Thanks Mike, AD

>>I think we will wait until 4.0 windows is STABLE, it has been held back and I am not sure of a release date. When 4.0 make users happy and us not nervous, we will indeed make a port for 4.0 but we arent going to hurry just so we can say we did it. It must make sense because it going to be one hell of a lot of work<< Although the delay in the release of Windows 4.0 is frustrating, it definately WILL HAPPEN in early 1995 and will replace Windows 3.1 and DOS by the end of 1995, for all practical purposes. For some reason, it seems like a lot of developers are trying to ignore this fact, especially game and 3D modeling developers. With the Windows 4.0 and WinG betas available NOW, and with 32 bit C and C++ developement tools already out for some time, it would seem that NOW is the time to begin the process of porting over to it. This is ESPECIALLY significant to DOS based programs that will not run with 3rd party memory managers or semi-unusual configurations, such as Imagine. I KNOW it's a hell of a lot of work (I'm trying to do it myself), but it has to be done sometime, so why not get a leg up on the competition, especially since the Imagine interface is really the only thing wrong with an otherwise fantastic program (maybe also a full spine based modeler). There has been a lot of talk about the interface, by the way, and let me just get a little more specific on what I'd like to see: 1) More visual feedback in the attributes / material dialog. I'd like to actually see what the effect the attributes / textutes/ bump maps have on my surface while in this dialog (similar to what truespace does with their "material" sphere). 2) A more logical layout on the menus. All loading and saving should be done from the file menu. There should be more consistency in the layout between modules, and more in line with other PC based programs. 3) Not having to hit enter after everything. 4) A more inituative design relating to attributes, texture, transfomation, etc. It difficult to work with RGB setting for thing like transparancy, the way it's laid out currently. After choosing the attributes for an object, when you come back into the attributes requester for that object to change setting, at the very LEAST the attributes currently assigned to the objects should be checked off. I also wish when you "uncheck" an item, it should remove that attribute from the object (or return to the defaults). 5) More icons for quicker use of functions (I hate to memorize key shortcuts). 6) A whole redesign of the action editor, which is a very poor, non-intuative layout. 7) In many dialogs, you don't get a file requester when you need to choose a file that contains things like texture maps (you have to memorize the filename). There are other things but I have to run at the moment. Thanks for your kind offer. I will probably take you up on it so thaty I can get both. Regards, Tony

Mike, Since you are looking for specific ideas for improving Imagine, here are a few I done gone and thunk up. <G> These are in no particular order: 1-Include more info with the PC version on configuring memory. I see posts all the time on Compuserve and Prodigy about how somebody can't get Imagine to run, or how they seem to be missing too much memory. Step by step info on disabling 3rd-party mem managers, creating a boot disk or loading device drivers into high mem and running Imagine with the /noxms switch would be extremely helpful to the new user. Just telling them to "consult your DOS manual" is like saying, "Hey, installing and running our program is YOUR problem, not ours." 2-More short tutorials in the next manual–possibly one for each major feature. I know I had a heck of a time getting the applique function to work and the manual was virtually no help at all. 3-Remember, "Being in love means never having to hit the RETURN key."–or something like that. Changing the values in a requester and clicking OKAY ought to be sufficient, instead of hitting RETURN all the time. 4-Imagine needs to be more idiot-proof–difficult, I admit, while idiots remain so ingenious. <G> However, there should be mucho more dialog boxes popping up to tell you that you can't do whatever the heck you were trying to do, and why. For example, if I click ATTRIBUTES, I should get a box telling me I haven't selected an object. If I click on ADD POINTS, I should get a box telling me I must first add and select an axis. I realize that to the veteran user these things seem obvious, but to the new user it is often baffling, not to mention frustrating, to click a menu item and have absolutely nothing happen. (Like, when I first loaded 3.0, eagerly clicked on DEFORM TOOL, and…nothing. A sigh, and back to the manual…) Also, why can't Imagine sometimes figure out what mode I need to be in? I mean, If I click on DRAG POINTS, why can't the program just go into point mode, instead of me having to manually select pick points first? Better yet, Why can't I simply turn on magnetism, and have Imagine immediately go into pick/drag points? After all, magnetism isn't terribly useful in any other mode. Having to figure out what mode you need to be in to use a function or save an object/group can be tough for the new user (and simple but rather clumsy for the veteran). 5-Applying procedural textures can be a really drawn-out process. Whenever I go into a texture requester, I am confronted with settings for each individual texture which mean nothing to me. "T1, T2, T3, and T4"–what the heck does that mean? "Noise threshold?" What noise? I don't hear anything! <G> "X, Y, and Z size?" Size of what? "Dispersion?" "Z scaling?" Frankly, you might as well use Chinese pictograms as labels–they would tell me just as much. And yes, I do have the texture document which explains each texture in more detail, but; 1) Said document explains the texture settings, but it really doesn't explain them very well, and 2) every time I use a texture I have to page through the entire document (which I printed off) to find explanation of the texture I am trying to use. Better labels of the functions within the texture attribute requester would help. BETTER STILL would be a HELP button within each texture requester that would pull up a thorough explanation on the use that texture. 6-Speaking of textures, how about a little box, something like the color swatch box, in each and every texture requester that would show you what the textures will look like? You could change the texture settings, click RENDER TEXTURE (or something like that) and fairly quickly have a one-inch (or smaller) mini-rendering of the texture appear. If you don't like it, you can simply change the settings again and click RENDER again. And again and again, until you get it right. I realize that zone rendering sort of gives you this capability, but using it means popping in and out of the attributes requester, which becomes a nuisance if you have to do it 50 times in a row to get the texture just right. Also, you should be able to do this from the main attributes requester (not just the individual texture requesters) in order to see what combinations of textures (as well as filter/hardness/specular/etc.) look like. 7-The ability to move or scale point placement in the Forms editor would be handy. This would not be intended to replace x/y symmetry of points, but to supplement it. 8-Automatic screen updates when editing paths. Often I want to move, size or shape paths in relation to other objects–only problem is, all the other objects have disappeared! 9-Why can't I group/ungroup objects in the stage editor? This drives me crazy! 10-Imagine should inform users, in both the project editor and when quickrendering, if they do not have sufficient memory to render a scene! This feature is especially important for the new user, who, not being used to Imagines quirks, might think there is something wrong with the program when only half the scene renders. 11-Imagine remembers where my Postscript fonts are stored…why can't it remember where my textures or objects are? I like the ability to select any directory I want, but can't Imagine remember a default directory? I think that most Imagine users keep all their textures in one folder, all their special f/x in another, etc. It's a minor annoyance to have to find the directory every time you use the program. Also, why doesn't the PARENT button work when you first go into a requester? For instance, why can't I click LOAD and then click PARENT to back out of the directory I'm in? Why do I first have to click DISK, then C:\, then a directory, before I can use PARENT? Speaking of remembering presets, I wish I didn't have to manually change the view from wireframe to solid every darn time! 12-There should be a FILE menu item right after the PROJECT item. FILE should contain, at the very least, LOAD, SAVE, DELETE, LOAD/SAVE DXF (and possibly some others as well). Imagine also desperately needs an ERASE function (so users can erase unwanted objects or projects from their hard drive), and a RENAME function (to change the names of objects/projects stored on the HD), which can be used without having to exit the program. Sure, you can change names by loading and re-saving the object, but then you have two of the same object with different names. 13-Also, Imagine won't let me change the name of a quickrender to anything else–why? If I change it from the default (QRENDER, I believe) I get an error message. And you can't rename FLC's at all–at least not from within Imagine–they all have the default name, ANIM.FLC. 14-Less dependence on the keyboard. I don't like having to use the keyboard and mouse at the same time; it's distracting and somewhat awkward. For example: How about a button or menu item for moving/rotating/scaling an axis? A little button labeled AXIS right next to X, Y, Z would be fine. This means that you wouldn't have to use SHIFT+M, SHIFT+R, etc. For picking multiple points/objects, what about substituting the second mouse button for the SHIFT key? Nearly all PCs have at least two mouse buttons (I don't know about Amigas). Click the right mouse button to enter multi mode and press the left mouse button to select the points. 15-Here's a weird suggestion: a light intensity function you could turn on and off, which, when on would display a series of concentric circles around lights in the stage to show light intensity at that distance from the light. The distance between the "rings" would increase or decrease as you raise or lower the brightness of lights, or as you click on/off on diminish intensity. The rings could represent the intensity range for a light, from 0-100% in, say, 20% intervals. (5 rings) Or you could just have one or two rings for each light, showing the optimum range for objects to be in (or maybe you can think up a better way). This would help in placing lights, which can be a hit or miss affair. 16-The ability to do a stage pencil test in a solid or color shaded veiw. You can do this in the project editor, but this means a FLC file I don't want on my HD. Besides, in the stage you can view a pencil test at different speeds, stop and view individual frames, and instantly make changes to the project. 17-In the Project editor: WHILE RENDERING, how about, IN ADDITION to showing the percentage of the current frame completed, showing the total time it took to render the previous frame? And maybe even showing the percentage of the total rendering project completed so far? This gives you a better idea of where you're going and where you've been. Also, how about showing the percentage of global effect completed? When, say, haze is taking a long time, I often end up wondering if program is even doing anything. 18-Other file formats for backdrop pictures? Or even brushmaps? BMP, TGA and GIF would be nice. Sure, I've got a program which converts file formats, but it's a pain to exit Imagine, go into Windows, load the graphics progam, convert the file, exit the program, exit windows, and re-load Imagine. Whew! 19-Last, but probably most importantly, ONLINE HELP! The last menu item should be a help menu, with a table of contents listing every single Imagine function and a brief description on how to use it. Not, of course, as a substitute to a thorough manual! Hope this is of some help and didn't sound too demanding or preachy (or stupid). Bernie