CompuServe Thread

#Newtek where are you?

93 messages in this thread
#48458From: Art TianisDec 15, 1992 4:25 PM
Does Newtek ever respond to any messages or problems discussed here? There are plenty of questions that still remain unresolved, especially the ones about the "flickering toasters". Many toaster owners have this problem. Can someone please tell me why Newtek does not address this? Isn't this a Newtek Forum?
#48473From: Joe MaulucciDec 15, 1992 10:49 PM
If you need NewTek the best thing is to call them directly. John Gross is the closest we've seen to NewTek on a regular basis for awhile. Everyone should send JG at least Holiday E-Mail for all his help. Joe Maulucci >>> AP ENGAGED
#48476From: Art TianisDec 16, 1992 1:23 AM
Joe, The information that is available here from users is great. In fact, it's more than I've got from Newtek directly. I was just wondering why Newtek doesn't respond to specific problems addressed in this forum. A public response to some of these problems might help lighten the phone calls to the tech dept. At least it would show that they care about their customers. Art
#48537From: Matthew J. W. RatcliffDec 17, 1992 3:05 PM
When I asked about this, I was told that there is an official policy from the highest levels NOT to do tech support online. I'm not sure why this forum exists, but it makes a handy place for us all to share our knowledge.
#48544From: Art TianisDec 17, 1992 4:32 PM
Aki, I agree, this is a good place to share knowledge. It is just unfortunate that NewTek doesn't participate. Even when I deal with them on the phone they always seem to have stock replies to specific problems. Art
#48561From: Joe MaulucciDec 17, 1992 10:50 PM
Art, "Stock replies", yeah like that bad photo copy they stick in when they return your board from repairs which reads that they found the problem you discribed and fixed it. It would be nice to know what was actually done to the board. I had one board returned to me with no screws! Yeap, she's fixed alright. I was not aware of this new policy of theirs. I was wondering why there was not much talk here about Lightwave Professional, System 3.0, or that new add-on board. Joe Maulucci >>> AP ENGAGED
#48585From: Suresh KavanDec 18, 1992 11:55 AM
mmmhhh…what's Lightwave Professional got/cost? what new add-on board?? When will release 3.0 arrive… what's in it? How much? Thx. SK.
#48587From: SyndesisDec 18, 1992 2:01 PM
Because all the beta testers of LW Pro will be "terminated" if they even mention that they have it, or so it says on the non-disclosure that they signed… 🙂
#48623From: Joe MaulucciDec 18, 1992 11:41 PM
Not being part of that elite group or knowing any of them, I am just piecing rumors that have filtered through the DTV community. I guess if this SIG was not associated with NewTek, we would be more likely to explore the strengths, weekness, and future of the Video Toaster. We all have the Toaster Tool Kit, for example, but we don't even explore the sharing of custom wipes or scripts. A Toaster library, filled with scripts, wipes, 3D objects…perhaps sja is right, we should move this to the AmigaArts forum. Joe Maulucci >>> AP ENGAGED
#48641From: Karl FeltnerDec 19, 1992 12:45 PM
Joe, There are a couple of great Toaster/Lightwave BBS's out there with alot of what you request. Karl "Only Amiga can make it happen…"
#48664From: Erik FlomDec 19, 1992 5:51 PM
Well, what are their phone #'s? Most of the ones I've called have looked like ghost towns. Thanks, Erik Flom
#48649From: SyndesisDec 19, 1992 2:34 PM
Upload away! If you upload files, I'm sure they'll approve them. I agree, I see very little if any sharing of CG pages, wipes, scripts, projects, etc. I don't know why.
#48591From: Steve AhlstromDec 18, 1992 3:02 PM
NewTek signed a contract with CompuServe to do end user technical support in this section of AmigaVendor. If they now wish not to do so maybe it's time for the contract to be cancelled and a generalized Toaster section opened up in AmigaArts forum. -sja
#48619From: Erik FlomDec 18, 1992 10:14 PM
Hear, Hear. It would be nice for SOMEONE to pick up the ball that NewTek (OldTek?) has chosen to drop. Still waiting . . . Erik Flom
#49073From: RAD Moose @ NewTek, Inc.Dec 28, 1992 12:02 PM
If you are having spacific problem, it's always best to contact us directly…Don't you think? You might notice that when someone asks a general operational question about the toaster, their questions get answered. When someone has a spacific, or very unusual question, we ask them to call. If you called me and asked a question about some really weird thing that you had going on, I'd have to ask you hundreds of questions. This might make a month long project out of what could be handled in a 10 minute phone call. BobAnderson NewTek TechSupport
#49114From: Erik FlomDec 29, 1992 12:03 AM
Yo, Bob. Your msg must be directed at some other Toaster(er) out there. (I've never had a problem with NewTek tech support, and have made it clear on this very SIG. I think you guys have exemplary customer support!) (BTW, are you the 'Bob' who handled my latest Toaster problems? If so, then a hearty thank-you and 'job well done' should be sent your way! :^) I HAVE NEVER (in the 2 times I have had Toaster problems) HAD PROBLEMS WITH NEWTEK TECH SUPPORT. There are others who have claimed such problems, but not me. Try talking to Wayne Cole, he seems to be ONE disgruntled Toaster user. Happy New Year, 7 KEep On Toastin', Erik Flom P.S. I assume there is no truth to the rumour that Kiki is carrying John Sculley's love-child? :^) (Just kidding guys!)
#49243From: RAD Moose @ NewTek, Inc.Dec 31, 1992 12:36 PM
OOPS! that message was meant for the one and only wayne cole. Sorry. There are two Bobs here in Tech. I think it was Bob Stratton, our on staff broadcast eng. who helped you out, but thanks for the compliment.When you get a LOUD minority like Mr. Cole it's good to have folks like yourself out there. Thanks As to the scully question… I heard that KIKI had been abducted by UFO aliens, and that the "Love Child" she is carrying is actually ELVIS"!!! But don't tell anyone…
#49281From: John GrossJan 1, 1993 10:49 AM
I heard that Elvis and the Colonel were having a secret love affair and Priscilla found out so the CIA had to have him killed. — JG <licensed to fly>
#49501From: RAD Moose @ NewTek, Inc.Jan 6, 1993 4:46 PM
No,No No your wrong it was Priscilla that was having the affair with the Colonel and the Colonel had Elvis killed. DH
#49295From: Erik FlomJan 1, 1993 9:22 PM
My lips are sealed! <g> (I, too, have seen Elvis!) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#49506From: John MaguireJan 6, 1993 6:15 PM
You guys need to get out more often. ;}
#48560From: Joe MaulucciDec 17, 1992 10:50 PM
Art, In the past when NewTek reps were visiting here daily, unless you included their account number, chances were that they would not respond. (ie: To: NewTek 76004,3350) Joe Maulucci >>> AP ENGAGED
#49074From: RAD Moose @ NewTek, Inc.Dec 28, 1992 12:03 PM
thanks Joe. BobAnderson NewTek TechSupport
#48487From: SyndesisDec 16, 1992 11:37 AM
They've got an 800 number for tech support. Have you tried calling them directly? You're right, their network support is spotty. I'll tell you why… the upper management at NewTek doesn't have a high opinion of network online support at this time. Their opinion is that it's nowhere as good as what can be accomplished over the phone, and that there's a tendency for people to get a bad impression of the company if there's a lot of flaming and dirty laundry. So when we do get NewTek tech support people here, they're probably doing it of their own motivation…
#49075From: RAD Moose @ NewTek, Inc.Dec 28, 1992 12:04 PM
Absolutly correct BobAnderson NewTek TechSupport
#49119From: SyndesisDec 29, 1992 12:18 AM
So jump in here, throw some buckets of water on these flamers, and quit lurking! 🙂
#48575From: Wayne ColeDec 18, 1992 12:57 AM
Art, They only replyto accustations of not being responsive. Lately their tech support has gone into the Toilet. Profit drunk, I suspect. If you are considering a device for professional use my advice would be to NOT consider the Toaster. Their support is so bad that even if you take the time to mail them a long letter and files on disk describing the problems they do not respond. I lost a very lucrative job because of thier lack of support. And it gets worse by the day. Basically, they lack of support for the device puts it into the 'neat toy' category – certainly not suitable for professional use unless you have a backup for the inevitable day the NewTek tech support effectively says, "screw you!" wmc – via Autopilot!
#48586From: Erik FlomDec 18, 1992 12:56 PM
Are they profit-drunk, or are they just working on a Toaster for other platforms? Given their in-ability to work with C=, I get the impression they may soon be ready to leap into more lucrative markets. What is this rumor about them not shipping any more Toasters for 2 months? (Sounds kinda' scary?!?) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#48588From: SyndesisDec 18, 1992 2:02 PM
That's entirely ridiculous… Because I've got software in the Toaster package am privy to sales figures, I can tell you that the last few months have been some of the best sales months ever. It's a complete and utter lie.
#48618From: Erik FlomDec 18, 1992 10:13 PM
Well, I never said it was the truth. I am glad you are privvy to more information than us lowly users get. (Now, why don't you share some more with us peons.) Since they offer little/no support, and they don't tell anyone anything, what can we do but spread vile rumors? "Keep On Toastin'" (But, for how long? :^( Erik Flom
#48650From: SyndesisDec 19, 1992 2:35 PM
Oh, I think it would be much more fun if you made up new rumors. Not a month goes by that I don't hear that NewTek is in financial trouble, "on the rocks." Then I look at my royalty checks and smile. 🙂 Paul Montgomery just bought a Testarossa. You think they're in trouble?
#48665From: Erik FlomDec 19, 1992 5:52 PM
How do I know what to think, if they won't tell anyone. Enjoy your royalty checks (while they last). How about this: 'John Sculley is Kiki Stockhammer's LOVE SLAVE' (read it in the National Toilet.) No Longer Toastin' Erik Flom
#48745From: Matthew J. W. RatcliffDec 21, 1992 1:49 PM
So I guess she dumped Steve Jobs? Or are they back in the triangle that rocked the computer world a few years ago?
#48773From: Erik FlomDec 21, 1992 10:37 PM
Well, you know these vicious rumours show up all the time in the popular press. When last questioned, Kiki only responded with a curt 'No Comment!' ('The National Toilet – Just say "I read it in the Toilet!") Your on-the-spot reporter: Erik Flom
#48809From: SyndesisDec 22, 1992 6:53 PM
If the Toaster did truly fail as that (false) rumor suggested, what do you think would happen to the Amiga market in general?
#48821From: Erik FlomDec 22, 1992 9:52 PM
Unfortunately, I think the loss of the Toaster as a proprietary piece of hardware would only hasten the end of Amiga as we know it.
#48627From: Wayne ColeDec 19, 1992 1:29 AM
Erik, I've been suspicious that they might be converting to other platforms and voiced those suspicions before. However, MANY people essentially said I was nuts and went into great detail about the technical issues of a conversion. Essentially the argument was that it essentially involved reinventing the Toaster. I don't know if they have stopped shippin or not. (Mark Manes might be abel to elaborate on that). But they have been might silent, they have stopped supporting it and these things are all consistent with an eminent new product release, or a company's dissolution. Optimists would say that it is in preparation for the AA chipset version Toaster. Pessimists would say that the Toaster saturated the Amia market to its maximum penetration and MUST go to other platforms to feed the Ferrari/Jet Plane/Kikki Wardrobe thingies. Time will tell. Something is definitley up. They don't even respond to the cuts in this formum like they used to after they gave up the tech support. As for it being scary – it has gone beyond that. They HAVE ALREADY LEFT the Amiga market. So it makes little difference if they develop for another platform or not. Just hope that the VIVID24 and EditMaster board get reasonable software support. That could be Amiga Video Professionals fallback to cover the NewTek abandonment of them. wmc – via Autopilot!
#48661From: Erik FlomDec 19, 1992 5:51 PM
Oh well, since my Toaster just burned out last night, I hope I can EVENTUALLY get thru to Tech Support and find out how much it will cost to get it fixed. (I can't find their warranty card/statement ANYWHERE in their manual.) No Longer Toastin' Erik Flom
#48675From: Wayne ColeDec 20, 1992 1:02 AM
Eric, I can' locate a warranty statement either. The card you mailed in was just a registration card but there is no statement of warrantee anywhere that I can find. Unfortunatley I suspect if you get any help at all it will be to direct you to a reseller of refurbished units. They have a real "*()& you" attitude to Amiga users – probably a transference of their attitude toward CBM. I believe they are abandoningg teh Amiga market to concentrate on the mac software "ToasterLink". I could tell you about my multiple contacts via phone, letter and diskette with the problem files/procedures on it, the request for timely service since more than $10,000 was riding on a solution/workaround. I got no response except on here when I chastised them for lack of support after one month into the problem. The messae was "we'll call you". They never did. One problem I sent them files on is over a year old with no response. The costly one is now 7 months old with no response. Unfortunatly, due to thes circumstances I've been steering vidoe professiojnal friends away from the Toaster. NewTek cannot be counted on in a pinch. They are no longer a professional operation. wmc – via Autopilot!
#48680From: Erik FlomDec 20, 1992 1:29 AM
Ouch, sorry to hear that (tho' I have heard you say it before). I had no problems about 6-9 months ago, but haven't talked to them since. Here's hoping my luck is a little better. Thanks, Erik Flom
#48729From: Joe MaulucciDec 20, 1992 11:12 PM
Erik, You'll just have to keep calling them, and expect them to be busy. If they want to call you back, get an estimate of when, you may have to call them back anyway. I have got them on the phone, about three weeks ago. I expect to try them this week because I get a red screen on the second half of an autohue. I don't now if this is a problem, does anyone? Joe Maulucci >>> AP ENGAGED
#48771From: Erik FlomDec 21, 1992 10:37 PM
I guess I got lucky. I called a 8:45AM PST and got right through. Was off the phone within five minutes with my RMA #. (But of course, my problem was a little more cut-and-dried. ie:Toaster caused system to not power up.) Oh well, here's hoping I'm as lucky with the repairs. Thanks, Erik Flom
#48799From: Joe MaulucciDec 22, 1992 12:52 PM
Good luck 🙂 Joe Maulucci >>> AP ENGAGED
#48734From: Wayne ColeDec 21, 1992 2:23 AM
Erik, I hope so, but the fact that you couldn't even et the girl who takes the messages is not a good "customer service omen". Wonder if Todd Rundgren, NBC, CBS and ABC users get a special telephone dupport number or if NewTek blows them off too? wmc – via Autopilot!
#48772From: Erik FlomDec 21, 1992 10:37 PM
I should have made it clear that I was trying to get through to Customer Support on a Saturday, and the lines were busy non-stop. (Maybe their Christmas party was the Friday evening before? :^) I got through the first time I called, and they gave me an RMA within minutes. (Much to my surprise.) Here's hoping this was not just a fluke. Oh well, should be Toastin' within a week. (I also ordered a beefier 300W PS for my A3000 also.) Thanks, Erik Flom
#48791From: Wayne ColeDec 22, 1992 3:46 AM
Wow – you really got lucky. My multiple calls and disks get either no response or the "must be something wrong with your Amiga…" wmc – via Autopilot!
#48800From: Erik FlomDec 22, 1992 1:31 PM
It probably has to do with the fact my problems have always been fairly dramatic. Last June, I looked at the Composite output (for the first time in a month – I really don't use the Toaster for much more than 24bit RGB graphics), and it was all messed up. (Poor sync was causing 'flagginf' on the top of the image, and I got a blue (or red?) screen during Toaster startup which indicated a Toaster error. They fixed it w/o question in a few days (paid for overnight shipping in both directions too!). This time, the Toaster was preventing my system from powering up, and I had isolated it to the Toaster board, so they couldn't really say 'must be your Amiga'. I have found that a pleasant tone of voice and courtesy will get me a lot further with any of these phone jockeys. Could this be your problems? (Though I could see as to how you might be a little annoyed with them by now. :^) Maybe your luck will change with the new year? (One can hope.) Thanks, Erik Flom
#48874From: SyndesisDec 23, 1992 9:39 PM
I know of no "special numbers" used by high-profile users. As for NewTek giving those high-profile users extra special care? Geez, cut them some slack! Now you're after them because they're milking some of the best P.R. they've had yet? Trust me, every company milks their high-profile users for P.R., and they do give them extra help.
#48898From: Wayne ColeDec 24, 1992 2:09 AM
I have to admit that was a sarcasatic remark that I don't for a minute believe. I keep having the sense that NewTek is lurking and that maybe they can be goaded into a comeback since they are insensitive to requests, pleas and repeat request and pleas. wmc – via Autopilot!
#48749From: jeff HolinskiDec 21, 1992 2:36 PM
I think you're expecting too much from NewTek. The big dream in the computer industry is to come up with a hot product, make lots of cash, then get out of the business before the company dies. NewTek has already done the first 2. You think they went to all the bother of inventing the Toaster to make people happy. WRONG! They did it to make money. As long as they're doing that what do they care what you thing of them?????
#48790From: Wayne ColeDec 22, 1992 3:46 AM
James Hebert bought a Cessna Citation , I'm told. Being a pilot I KNOW what the cost was (about 2.5 million) and what the per hour operting costs are (about 8k figuring fuel, insurance and maint). So they NEED to keep making monye to support the jet. How did they make it originally? Providing a tool AND support. I would almost be willing to bet that rather than hire needed resources to do the mac thing andmaintain support, NewTek pulled all the tech support people to do the Mac-link development and marketting figuring that amigoids are not worth treating as professionals even if making a living with Toasters. I suspect a transference of the animosity they feel toward CBM to all Amiga Toaster users. wmc – via Autopilot!
#48852From: Luke H MontgomeryDec 23, 1992 2:35 PM
'Scuse me while I get out my soapbox… It doesn't seem to me that speculation regarding a person's personal finances are appropriate for this forum. If I want that kind of stuff, I'd pick up the trash tabloid rag at the grocery store checkout. 'Sides, I've been to James's home — and (no offence, James) it isn't any Silicon Valley – style mansion… don't know what your information source was (in typical tabloid style, source was unidentified)… Okay, enough soapbox for know… Later, Luke Montgomery
#48896From: Wayne ColeDec 24, 1992 2:08 AM
Source – Lee Stranahan. Happy :^} wmc – via Autopilot!
#48875From: SyndesisDec 23, 1992 9:42 PM
James Hebert is NewTek's writer of documentation – he was once part of tech support, too. I doubt he bought the plane you described. And assuming you simply mixed up someone's name – well, it's all speculation. All it takes is for one person to say "we got a company plane" and another to repeat it as "we bought a company plane" and so on… until we see the receipts, it's all hype and speculation. It would make much more sense for it to be a leased plane. NewTek most often flies commercial, as far as I know. Both Tim Jenison and his wife are pilots, and enjoy flying.
#48899From: Wayne ColeDec 24, 1992 2:10 AM
I could have mixed up Tim and Jim (can't keep 'em straight). But they offered to send the plane to pick up Lee Stranahan for an interview before he went to work for them for that short period of time in '91 I believ it was. Regardless, I have no problem with people enjoying the fruits of their success – I'd like to make the money then get my hands on an old P-40 so I can retire the PA-28R. It was just more stuff to try to goad any NewTek lurkers. wmc – via Autopilot!
#48925From: SyndesisDec 24, 1992 1:42 PM
You've done a great job of demonstrating why NewTek says they don't like the online services for tech support or "company presence." (Keep in mind that I obviously feel different here, as an online junkie, but I'm trying to explain what they've explained to me… I've tried to get them to improve their online support, but it's an uphill battle.) "It was just more stuff to try to goad any NewTek lurkers." Oh, I see – make more and more inflammatory statements, just to get them to respond? This childish approach to online communications chases away more people than it attracts. This sort of "goading" had almost driven me away from online support, too. No more than a few days ago, some Internet wanker, obviously an English major, posted a message stating little more (and I quote) than "InterChange Plus SUCKS." He's never called for tech support to diagnose or repair his bugs. He suffered a bug from the first release of ICP on some '040 systems. Yet he's ready to tell the world he's upset, and that our product isn't any good… Networks are a great equalizer – we don't get all those other real-world clues that someone is less than sincere or less than adept.
#49066From: RAD Moose @ NewTek, Inc.Dec 28, 1992 11:05 AM
Mr Cole: You would be well advised to confirm such outrageous statements as "James Hebert just bought a Cessna Citation" with a reliable source prior to contributing to the spread of such allegations. I do not now, nor have I ever, owned an airplane. Despite your claim that Lee Stranahan was the source, you should be aware that Lee separated from NewTek over 4 months ago to pursue his own Toasterrelated career. Further, to clarify any confusion surrounding my name, I do not go by "Jim," and find it difficult to confuse "James" with "Tim." I would appreciate being contacted prior to thch viral comments in the future. It's a consideration I would afford anyone else, that of confirming the accuracy of statements before presenting them as fact in a public forum. James Hebert 12/28/92
#49138From: Luke H MontgomeryDec 29, 1992 10:57 AM
Three cheers for your reply to Mr. Cole about the "Cessna" rumor. I had already questioned his source for the "trash tabloid-style" posting consisting of unattributed / unnamed sources… Further, when the "source" was named, it turned out that the source is not what would be considered a "qualified" source. Ya know, I thought about calling you about this flame, but I figured either you (a) wouldn't beleive that this could be a forum for that kind of garbage or (b) you'd hear about it sooner or later even though it might take a while (they say sludge (as in his rumor message) moves slowly <g>… I certainly hope that folks will realize that this is a GREAT place for the exchange of INTELLIGENT ideas — not personal rumors… Like I said before, if I wanted to read THAT kind of innuendo (sp?), rumors, and general crap, I'll buy a tabloid at the checkout stand… something which I REFUSE to do! Hmmm… guess this means you must be a "public figure" now, huh? <GRIN!!!> Take care, hope you had a happy holiday (even if it WAS in T-town! <yuk, yuk>) Regards, Pat t t t t
#49382From: Wayne ColeJan 4, 1993 2:49 AM
I admitted to the possibility that I may have confused the names on my own accord. So I gather that you are saying that Mr. Stanahan was lying when he mentioned an offer to be picked up by the company jet to be flown to the interview in Topeka about the time of the Long Beach AmeExpo? I was surprised as I have freind in a similar situation as you and Tim and the backers made him surrender his pilot license and sign a contract barring flight in anything other than regular commercial flights as a protection of thier interests in the company. That is one reason it stuck in my mind. The other was that the cost of such a plane seemed to indicate that more Toasters had been sold than I had ever immagined up to that time. BTW, nice move to distract from the central issue of "profit drunkeness leading to poor customer support". Touche. wmc – via Autopilot!
#49954From: Lee StranahanJan 15, 1993 3:39 AM
This is Lee Stranahan speaking… I haven't been on CIS for a while, and to come back and see it implying that I am a liar is pretty disconcerting. First, I was not AT the Long Beach AmiExpo… Second, NewTek owns a jet – James Hebert does not. It's good that NewTek has a jet, because they've earned it. Since I wasn't at the show, what are you thinking about?
#48873From: SyndesisDec 23, 1992 9:32 PM
Wayne, you're wandering afield of the truth… NewTek is not really in any other markets at this time. Yes, they just shipped out beta units of the ToasterLink/Mac version, a SCSI link between an Amiga-equipped Toaster and a Mac. When it ships for real – who knows. It's debatable whether we should really call that an abandonment of the Amiga market. After all, it's causing Mac owners to buy Amigas, isn't it? I think it's great news, it broadens my market, it broadens everyone's market. More than two years ago, I hacked together the "PC Toaster" – a simple Visual BASIC program under Windows that sent ARexx commands to an off-the-shelf Toaster over the serial port. At COMDEX, this won Windows magazine's "Win" award. Indistinguishable from a rigged demo, indeed. If I knew of NewTek making a board for another machine, I'd need to keep my mouth shut. I know nothing about such a board. If they do have one in development, I'm sure they're keeping it VERY quiet. There is competition out there. From the tone of some of your messages, I think you're recommending that NewTek give up and play dead because they haven't given you the personal attention you want. I'm sure they won't roll over just yet. I do hope they answer your questions. There's a lot of reasons why I think NewTek won't abandon the Amiga as a base platform: multitasking, graphics, sound, modularity, present customer base, developer support, etc. It would take an insane amount of effort to re-create what they've built for the Amiga. Testarossa and corporate airship aside, I don't think they've got the manpower to gear up to that task. Everyone there is very busy on the Amiga version. The ToasterLink/Mac version was done by an out-of-house, non-Topeka programmer.
#48897From: Wayne ColeDec 24, 1992 2:09 AM
John, I'm only suggesting (oops – I'm actually stating) that they have abandoned the Amiga market as far as technical support is concerned. I am only conjecturing why they would do that. Considering their accomplishments to date, they are not stupid boys and girls. Thinking individuals who want to keep repeat business as well as expand markets would realize that quality after market support can make the differnce between a product that has a long market run and one that has a short one. The only reason to quit offering support in any particulare market is 'cause you plan to leave it (witness the way the Amiga wordperfect online support dried up and the phone support slowly withered thereafter. NewTek is just found a way to wither it faster – but hey, thats progress right?) Under what circumstances would your company issue "canned" solutions to every problem on the phone (except for the cut-and-dried 'it died' scenarios)? Like " you have a non-stnadard motherboard" or definitely your accelerator – not our software…". Under what rational would you advise your tech support not to answer hardcopy and electronic example problem reports and/or promise to call abck then repeatedly fail to call back to the point of forgetting the original problem report? I thik the only answer can be, "when I want that segment of the market to go away as it is coasting more than I can realize in profits from it." BTW, I am not the only one who has had this difficulty with them especially since about July. NewTek support just appears to have dried up. And again I ask the question, if, unlike you and Black Belt and ASDG etc, they are not going to provide files and support here on CIS, why do they still have a free bit and a forum? It leads to false expectations and increased frustration to users. (SYSOPs feel free to chime in on this point…) wmc – via Autopilot!
#48919From: Marlene Zenker/SYSOPDec 24, 1992 8:56 AM
The only thing I have to "chime in" about at this point is that you seem to be on a one man campaign to convince people to stay away from NewTek. If I were in your position, I would be upset as well. Is this really the first company that wouldn't return your tech support calls? GVP and other companies have done that to me a number of times, and to other people as well (and I have had them call me back too)….but I don't go around spreading rumors that those companies are abandoning tech support for the Amiga. According to what you've said, they certainly dropped the ball in your case, and probably in others as well. That does not mean they've abandoned tech support the Amiga market. It simply means they've dropped the ball in those cases. I'm not defending what they did or didn't do, I'm just telling you what I've seen. Look at Erik's problem with the Toaster. If they had abandoned the Amiga, they wouldn't have helped him. Just my two cents. Steve
#49378From: Wayne ColeJan 4, 1993 2:48 AM
Steve, Tech support means more than just responding ro warranty replacement issues. Now I'll get off the goading provocatuer soapbox and onto the straiht talk box. I have worked problems with DEC, Intel Motorola, Microsoft, PerSoft, JPI, Borland, Pacpage, et. al. In all instances when I had a problem that was beyond the run of the mill, the ones that required sending files, being talked through diagnostics or tests, written procedures for problem recreation, these companies worked with me to determine the source of the problem. If the problem was theirs, they fixed it. Sometimes they provided workaround patches/fixes even when the problem was not with their product. NewTek no longer does this (if they ever did). Their tech support is similar or a little worse than say, Gold Disk. If a problem isn't in the pre-ordained list, they aren't interested in helping. Now, they protest to the contrary, saying that they handle every call etc. but then on the calls when they say to send stuff in, they never deal with the stuff it may take you 4 hours or a day or whatever to put together. They don't follow through and as a professional user of their product they do not support you when the problem is not a pre-solved one. Therefore, when dealing with people who MUST have reliability, that type of support must be considered. So I have no choice but to tell these pople when I am being paid to advise them that the Toaster may be a reat tool – when everything is working O.K. – but when it is not, if they expect or need quick efficient and attentive service, NewTek, for whatever reason will not/cannot provide that level of service. One Interactive TV company I did some work for relegated the Toaster to a proof of concept demo machine after finding what they termed "Serious technical and software flaws". They spend many manhours detailing all the problems, and never got return calls from NewTek. They eventually quit using thedevice altogether as there were "more hours spent debugging <continued>
#49417From: Vance SchowalterJan 4, 1993 3:57 PM
Mr. Cole, Give your vendetta a rest. At least on CIS. I pay good money to retrieve massive information which includes tricks, tips, good contacts, etc. That does not include page-long paragraphs within multiple page letters from a disgruntled user on ONE, single, bloody topic! And that, occuring over the course of WEEKS! I have nearly become blind and numbed from your open war with NewTek. One letter on your dissatisfaction was sufficient. More, should be considered abuse of not only this system, but its patrons. You have succeeded, not in portraying yourself as a professional in any fashion, but a verbal rumour and war monger. You, sir, are a bitter and obsessed man, and I would understand anyones reluctance to interact with you in any fashion, including NewTek. It was made clear, long ago, by NewTek that they would not have direct technical support in this Forum. It was also made clear by many of its patrons that all are fed up with your obsessive deluges. We know your opinions. They've been hammered into us with your aforementioned letters. Leave your mail to NewTek in E-MAIL. You'll find just as much interest from us in your letters there, as in here. Vance – Fed up and not interested in your multi-paged response.
#49478From: Wayne ColeJan 6, 1993 1:36 AM
Vance, "You, sir, are a bitter and obsessed man, and I would understand anyones reluctance to interact with you in any fashion, including NewTek." NOOOTTT! ;^} I was never anythig but nice on the phone, followed NewTek's instructions to the letter about what to send them, and they flat ignored the material, my requests for an answer. Plain and simple. Repeating the fact does nomake one bitter. It is a service to those professionals who may need quick efficient support of Toaster problem other than the dreaded green screen "Toaster Not Responiding". You apparently are the one with the chip on your shoulder. I responded toow someone who was asking if they were the only one who had not received support form NewTek. Several other people also reported the problem. I was merely one of those. Continued attempts to defend NewTek were accorded my reponse. (It is impolite not to reply when someone is talking to you). Yes I poked fun and was sarcastic about them, and I admitted it. I did not get personal, and was quite calm, and mostly tongue in cheek in my mood. So your ESP and assessment of me are very wrong. Hope your blood pressure goes down before serious damage is done. It was not my intent to rile you, but to get NewTek to re-evalutate their tech support operation and perhaps take it to the next level. Their number of units sold seem to inidicate that at least a revamping of procedures for handling problem reports is needed at least if not also tech support staff increases. My contention, if it was not obvious to you, is that not enough resource is devoted to the non-run-of-the-mill problem contacts. This is not to say the tech supporters are not qualified, but more likely overworked/overloaded and not organized in such a way as to see that all requests get at least a response even if not a solution. As for wasting your time on non-tips and tricks stuff – what are you expecting from a "NewTek where are you?" thread (which I didn't start, <continued>
#49499From: Vance SchowalterJan 6, 1993 4:15 PM
AutoPilot cannot differentiate between threads, so all of your mail is received. The question of "NewTek – Where Are You?" was answered by NewTek. I access this forum because of the important information which users want to share about using the Toaster. You had made your opinion long ago and everyone has noted it. Since NewTek hasn't reacted here, take that hint and go back to telephoning and writing to them. The situation here is, the majority of Toaster users claim they were treated well by NewTek. But because, for one reason or another you were not, you have claimed NewTek support is failing everyone. When I saw all of your mail, it did not read as humourous/tongue-in-cheek/sarcasm. If I have misunderstood your situation, I apologize. I only hope that you will put in some form of pointer, when you are using some of that barbed wit. I have expressed myself on this matter for a second and last time. Continue to write your letters. I only hope that you will throw in some "how-to's" as well, from time-to-time. Vance
#49479From: Wayne ColeJan 6, 1993 1:37 AM
BTW)? wmc – via Autopilot!
#49547From: Kevin WeltyJan 7, 1993 8:05 PM
Personally, I find it interesting that such scathing letters go unanswered. I am currently deciding whether to invest money(and company time) in a toaster setup, so I am very interested in people reactions with New-Tek. Currently, New-Tek has not been responding to complaints brought to this surface in this forum. If this is truely a vendor support forum, then I think New-Tek needs to re-think their involvement here and *provide* technical support or rename the area to New-Tek User Forum. Investing in quality equipment is not cheap and I would not like to have it end up a doorstop. K. Welty
#49554From: Suresh KavanJan 7, 1993 9:36 PM
Hear hear.
#49640From: Vance SchowalterJan 9, 1993 5:38 PM
According to what I've heard, this is not a tech support area. Just a general inquiries area. Vance
#50184From: RAD Moose @ NewTek, Inc.Jan 19, 1993 2:35 PM
When someone asks an intelegent question about the Toaster, their questions get answered. When the forum is filled with gossip and Tabloid type psudo-factoids, we choose to ignore it…. Any questions??? BobAnderson NewTek TechSupport
#49379From: Wayne ColeJan 4, 1993 2:48 AM
Toaster problems then producing useable work". If anyone has received help working out a sticky problem with NewTek, I'd like to know them as I've onlybeen able to find two types of supported people: those who had "it died" type problems and got prompt board replacements (even if a week of phone calling was required to convince them that green screen Toater Not responding was not from hooking it up wrong) and those with more subtle problems who cannot get any help from NewTek other than, " must be a bad motherboard" or "youraccelerator is bad". wmc – via Autopilot!
#48926From: SyndesisDec 24, 1992 1:51 PM
I'm not going to second-guess why NewTek didn't answer your questions. You're jumping to all sorts of conclusions that I don't see: they didn't answer your question, therefore they're cutting support, therefore they're leaving the Amiga behind, therefore they're hunting for a way to murder Irving Gould… When I visited NewTek a few weeks ago, I know I saw the tech support room with three-four guys in it, all on the phone, working up until closing time on a Friday before the company party. They're still there. As for the complications of motherboard revisions and accelerator troubles; all I can say is, I'm glad I don't make a hardware product in the Amiga market. Three yahoos in a garage can make an add-on board, hype it to three dozen people on the networks who buy it assuming it's the Next Big Thing, and then suddenly six dozen Amiga software and hardware companies are faced with incompatibility reports, all ready to blame their product and not the hardware from Three Guys Inc. Those motherboard and accelerator problems exist. I've fought them for years. I'm still fighting them – I've got a $1900 GVP '040 board sitting on the shelf going to waste because it wouldn't work with my 6.2 A2000 and assorted SCSI peripherals – with or without the Toaster in the system.
#49067From: Suresh KavanDec 28, 1992 11:16 AM
Your all missing Waynes point and *judging* him for making it. The simple point is that when you make a significant investment in high end hardware, you *expect* a certain level of support. That is not to say that you can expect an all knowing tech support group, merely a helpful and positive one that *tries* to work out your problems. I have had several mmmmh run-ins with Tech Support at Newtek..sometimes I've been handled nicely (whether the problem was resolved or not) and other times I've been treated as a pariah. This forum IS the place to yell and scream about your problems. It IS the Newtek forum. For those of us who depend on high quality support being available for this product..balancing the feedback on this forum is important. I think it wrong to belittle a pleasant users scream for help. He is NOT trashing the product (a la your example on Internet) merely stating that in HIS opinion tech sup sucks. That he has floated trial balloons to try and figure out WHY he has received a poor level of support is perfectly reasonable. That others (Eric) have suggested that he was unlucky is also reasonable. Lastly, most successful Hardware and Software companies have learned that to make it *in the long run* the two areas to spend a lot of money/resources on are : R&D and User-Support. NewTek have produced a great product..but competition is rearing its head – The Fast electronics switcher/A/B roll/Twin TBC/DVE/Twin Frame Buffers/Multi-platform product at $4,000 is very enticing at the low end…the Matrox product equally enticing at the high end. I knew of these products 18 months before their release. As just a little Joe Schmo…I know zippo about NewTeks future direction. Given the amount of money and time I've sunk into this product, that concerns me. SK.
#49117From: SyndesisDec 29, 1992 12:15 AM
So you're saying you get better tech support after spending $2,000 on Sony equipment, as compared to NewTek hardware? I doubt it. As I've said several times, I'm not here to defend NewTek's support, whatever it might be. When Wayne himself admitted he was making inflammatory statements just to "flush out" NewTek, he lost a lot of credibility, I think. As for FAST – well, we'll be able to compare it when it really ships. They certainly emulate the Toaster when it comes to demos and announcements well in advance of shipment. 🙂 I saw it at COMDEX, it looked very nice. I doubt they'll bundle as much software with it as the Toaster, and that could again double your price on the Mac or PC. NewTek's been good at that, too. DigiView was the same story: very inexpensive hardware bundled with lots of cool software.
#49139From: Suresh KavanDec 29, 1992 11:58 AM
>>When Wayne himself admitted he was making inflammatory statements >>just to "flush out" NewTek, he lost a lot of credibility, I think. But you have to admit, it did work ! I agree w/ you about the FAST! product, its specs are great and they *say* its shipping but I don't know how stable it is. Having A/B roll s/w is a real big plus though. Especially at this price level.
#49147From: SyndesisDec 29, 1992 3:15 PM
No, it DIDN'T WORK. He "succeeded" in proving *exactly* why some companies (NewTek included, apparently) don't like to deal with flaming weasels on the networks. At least people tend to be polite on the phone, even when stressed!
#49154From: Vance SchowalterDec 29, 1992 4:49 PM
Until I see a product (hw or sw), it's vapourware to me. I remember an ad in a video mag about a year ago, boasting a Mac Toaster killer. Fizzled. It was half-hearted effort. Vance
#49159From: Joe MaulucciDec 29, 1992 7:58 PM
I agree that Wayne lost credibility, but it also interesting to see that NewTek responded mostly to Wayne's statements and nothing about the title of this thread. I still would like to know if they wish to still participate here as a vendor or if, as suggested by Steve, it is time to move to the ARTS forum and open a *toaster* section there. Either way we'll continue to toast through '93, and lend our support. Happy Holidays, Joe Maulucci >>> AP ENGAGED
#49381From: Wayne ColeJan 4, 1993 2:49 AM
John, It wasn't one question. It was multiple. On tow occasions THEY requested I send the stuff to them. I wasted my valuable time fulfilling THEIR request for files, written material, examples etc, and when I comply I get NO response except a terse 'we'll call you' a month after the second reminder, then nothing at all. Even after explaining that a job was riding on a fix/workaround. A simple "we can't solve it" would even have been an exceptable professional response. But silence bespeaks a "____ you" attitude that comes from thinking you are better than your customers and that they are not deserving of your support. wmc – via Autopilot!
#49411From: Jim S. RoofJan 4, 1993 2:39 PM
I'd love to chime in here but I can see just outside my window that my car is about ready to be twoed off.
#49476From: Wayne ColeJan 6, 1993 1:35 AM
Must be a wrong-side-of-the-street day in NYC? wmc – via Autopilot!
#49572From: John GrossJan 8, 1993 2:08 AM
Jim, Clever– but I think it went ofar some heads. — JG <licensed to fly>
#49588From: Jim S. RoofJan 8, 1993 10:59 AM
Could'a been. Thanks for watching!
#49435From: SyndesisJan 4, 1993 11:45 PM
You're assuming what their attitude is – maybe they can't fix your problem. Maybe they can't reproduce it. Of course, they should tell you so…
#49480From: Wayne ColeJan 6, 1993 1:37 AM
John, I would have been completely satisfied with "can't reproduce/solve it". (Not happy, but…) I would have even been satisfied and tolerant of, "we'd like to have you send us the files but if you did we probaly won't be able to look at them." A little more accuracy in what to expect would be nice. I know the individual tech supports try, but the sensation I get when having talked to them, especially after 2.0 is that they are overloaded and approaching "customer burn-out". That is not the techies problem but a management one. I'm hoping thier management will see the wisdom of reviewing and prehaps improving the tech support operation. (My hunch is that it would require additional people). wmc – via Autopilot!
#49508From: SyndesisJan 6, 1993 6:37 PM
This happens to companies that make popular products, and not only in the tech support departments. I do think NewTek will need to make some quantum jumps in their in-house support and consideration for tech support. One thing that will help to force improvement, actually, will be the release of the ToasterLink/Mac. they've had to take a fresh look at many tech support problems because of it.
#48634From: Paul ToalDec 19, 1992 4:50 AM
Newtek is worried because Brown Wagh is about to release Studio Magic for $499 retail. It is just like Toaster but without all the software. You don't even need TBC's. It's gonna kick the slats out of Newtek, which is OK because Brown Wagh will port the thing for the 4000 and AGA. Their precious little Toaster won't be the heart throb of the DTV crowd. Unlike Newtek and C=, BW and the hardware cloners are working together.
#48655From: Peter GreciDec 19, 1992 5:05 PM
I hope yer joking their dude.$499 for a device capable of doing the same things as a Toaster?Seems a bit Far Fetched or will be lousy quality Video.
#48663From: Erik FlomDec 19, 1992 5:51 PM
Yes, it would be nice if NewTek would work more closely with third party developers. It would help EVERYONE. No Longer Toastin' :^( Erik Flom
#48694From: John GrossDec 20, 1992 4:13 PM
Paul, I don't think NewTek is worried at all. Maybe you were joking? — JG <licensed to fly>
#48794From: Paul ToalDec 22, 1992 5:41 AM
Take a look at the BW product when it comes out. Scary.