CompuServe Thread

Pagestream Graphics

48 messages in this thread
#66174From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 16, 1992 10:23 PM
Michael, A friend has told me that the latest version of PgS on the Atari has a mode which allows very fast screen updates ( a text mode?) This mode does not show accurate screen renditions of fonts. Is this mode available in the Amiga version. Also, is it possible for Pagestream to handle a TIFF, IFF or EPSF without importing the file into memory? That is, can the program just link to these files on the disk and either display them as a box with an X in it or display a low resolution version of the file? If memory serves, ProPage has some such feature, and such file handling is standard on the Mac (with the exception of IFF file capability). The fact that PgS has to handle the entire file is a severe drawback, and makes working with large graphic files nearly impossible, even with large amounts of memory. Handling and output of halftones on the Mac via Quark, for instance is almost effortless. I can have a page on screen which represents over 30 megs of graphic files and output them very easily to my imagesetter. Quark simply keeps track of the files on the disk, lets me manipulate the screen representation of the file (size, shape, etc) and then includes the file data in the PostScript bit stream to the output device. Am I missing something, or can Pgs do the same? If it can't, is it possible to get it to handle files in this manner sometime soon? It would seem to me that handling the entire file is the worst of all possible situations. The program has to work harder than just keeping track of the disk file, and the burden on the hardware is enormous. Thanks, Rich
#66252From: [F] ArnoAug 17, 1992 2:32 PM
Richard, Just to clarify part of your question: Professional Page will import all (upto 24 bit IFFs) and use a 4 grey-scale representation of the image but does not load the entire bit-map into memroy. It is quite easy to have serveral high-quality 24-bit IFFs in a single document. The 4 levels of grey also make for very easy veiwing of most bit-maps. Also, PPage does not save the bit-map in the document file but links it to the original bit-map (BTW, any changes made to that bit-map is automatically updated in PPage when the doc is reloaded or printed…interesting concept of `hot-linking'…and it has done this since day one). PageStream must load the entire graphic into memory but only (I think) displays a mono (B&W) image. Philip Laitar Supervisor
#66265From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 17, 1992 3:42 PM
Philip, Thanks. ProPage had the ability to easily handle graphics and color seps very early in its existence. I really thought it would become a 'mainstream' application and I was very appreciative of the fact that it did allow this machine some entry into the graphics arts world. We are a commercial printer and service bureau and MUST have type 1 font compatibility. It must be straight forward and painless. IMHO ProPage has taken a direction away from compatibility which has severely hurt it. I think that it is otherwise an excellent program. I switched from ProPage to Pagestream as soon as Pagestream became stable ( think that was v1.8). Pagestream is the only program on this machine that allows us to operate in this industry. I hope that Gold Disk recognizes the need for full compatibility with the Adobe standard. I am well aware of the history of Gold Disk's rebuf by Adobe's development department, but that was a long time ago. Rich
#66301From: Jonathan HirschmanAug 17, 1992 9:38 PM
Richard, I am *NOT* aware of "Gold Disk's rebuf by Adobe's development department.." so how about a history lesson…:) Jonathan – via Whap!
#66315From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 17, 1992 11:20 PM
Jonathan, OK Gold Disk can jump in here. I don't know if the same folks are still there as when this all started happening. I forget when PPage first came out. I got it because it was the _only_ program to support Bezier curves on this machine. It also had a different name then, but I can't recall that either! Jees, the mind is a terrible thing. They say that memory of comptuter program names is the first thing to go. Can't remember what the other thing is . . . Any way, PPage's original incarnation progressed into PPage and the folks at Gold Disk were in contact with Adobe in order to develop their programs. Gold Disk was the _only_ Amiga developer to even have been aware of PostScript then. They got a very cold reception from Adobe, if not a downright brush-off. Adobe would not give Gold Disk the kind of tech support it was only too glad to give Apple, UNIX and yes, even MS DOS computer developers (then in their PostScript infancy). Adobe made it clear that it would not help developers for the Amiga because the machine, being a CBM development was not a serious platform, and not 'worthy' of an Adobe effort. It was as though they did not want their name associated with CBM or Amiga. I had several conversations with various tech support people at Adobe in my own efforts at some PostScript packages that we wanted to release for the Amiga. (A font downloader among other useful utilities.) The individual people at Adobe Tech support were interesting to talk to. Some were very candid. They were well aware of Amiga, some had Amigas. Most had to repeat the "no comment" official line re Adobe's policy of helping Amiga developers. Others openly admitted to me that Adobe's official but unwritten policy was to not support Amiga. To my knowledge they never did give Amiga developers the kind of help they did give other platforms. They eventually began publishing their standards and eventually PostScript became well enough known that programmers could code for [ MORE ]
#66316From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 17, 1992 11:21 PM
[ continuation ] any machine. Also, the Type 1 standard was released to the Public Domain as a result of industry pressure and apparent legal problems between Apple and Adobe. Gold Disk embraced the Compugraphic Font technology, which although widespread by some accounts and established, was (is) the kind of proprietary technology that PostScript rescued the industry from. In my opinion, the Compugraphic Font approach was a dead end. A non-mainstream technology on an oddball computer. (Right, oddball, like the Sparcstation is oddball!) As far as I can tell, Gold Disk saw some of the handwriting on the wall. They realized that the gold is in the hills of MS DOS. Not in Amiga land. They did _not_ see the truth in the way of PostScript standardization despite their treatment by Adobe. But the double whammy of a limited market in the Amiga 'DTP' arena, and lack of support by the standard bearer must have been hard to take. There probably was some lack of support from CBM in there along the way also. I doubt that CBM actively sought Adobe cooperation for itself or its developers. While I could understand Gold Disk's dissapointment at its treatment by Adobe, I could not understand why they simply didn't develop their own routines for handling type 1 fonts. It was clear to everyone in the industry, even then, that non-PostScript formats were dead (and rightly so). Adobe's atrocious behavior notwithstanding, PostScript itself is a monumental improvement over the tyranny of pre-PostScript proprietary machines and operating systems. I know printers who have been forced into bankruptcy by the dinosaur-like systems of not too long ago, with their $100K-$200K price tags, and need for semi-annual system upgrades ($50K). PostScript changed all that, and the evolution of the change (hmm, that's a revolution) is just really gaining momentum. Adobe's Ivory-tower attitude almost resulted in its demise when its honeymoon with Apple Computer ended. But they are on solid ground now, and I for one hope [ MORE ]
#66317From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 17, 1992 11:21 PM
[ continuation ] they stay there. Gold Disk could still have a killer application on this machine if they would just rethink their position. If I were in charge, I would have a product out the door in two months that would put Quark Express to shame. All the pieces are in place, have been for a _long_ time. Gold Disk should read 'Fumbling the Future,' the story of how Xerox let complete dominence of the embryonic personal computer world slip from their grasp before they ever knew they had invented the personal computer, but after they had shown everone else how to build it! 8) Rich
#66346From: Jonathan HirschmanAug 18, 1992 9:14 AM
Richard, Thanks for the history. From your account, I would mostly blame CBM for the Adobe problem…if the company that builds the machines cannot court developers, it should not be up to the third party to do so. Jonathan
#66357From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 18, 1992 1:24 PM
Jonathan, Amen! Rich
#66405From: Malcolm O'BrienAug 19, 1992 1:19 AM
Rich, The story I heard was that it was CBM who alienated Adobe; and others who suffered by it. Malcolm
#66519From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 19, 1992 10:57 PM
Malcolm, Yes, I think it was CBM who alientated others. By omission or comission . . . Who knows. CBM has been such an frustrating and confusing entity. How they could have such a mixed up organization is beyond any of us who have lived with this situation. There is no doubt in my mind that if the Amiga had been properly marketed, by a team who knew what they were doing (and I truly don't know who that might be – probably Apple, but, who knows. Look what a mess IBM is in. . . Why hasn't the NeXT machine taken off? Why is the sky Blue?) it would be a major player. The computer world is so funny. We have incredibly complicated machines, which if you look at the overall productivity of corporate America, have NOT improved things. In many ways, the global picture of computer use parallels the frustration we have had with the Amiga. MS DOS machines, MS DOS itself should have resulted in _far_ more than it has a long time ago. Anyway, CBM _is_ (was?) a mess from the sophisticated comsumers' point of view and needs. I don't think that they sat down and said, "Hey let's see how we can screw up and give ourselves the reputations of being idiots." But if they _had_ they couldn't have done a better job! Rich
#66633From: Malcolm O'BrienAug 20, 1992 11:03 PM
Rich, Well, as it happens, I'm reading John Scully's "Blueprint for the Decade". Apple did a very good job of asserting themselves well enough to get acceptance and market share. (I love their ad in which a guy says that the most powerful computer is the one people actually use. <g>) Now Apple seems to have a pretty good idea of where they're going; which they can determine cause "Macs 'R Us". OTOH, PCs are anybody's game and where they go is more defined by Gates than by any of the hardware makers. In fact, I've heard that Apple sold more systems than anybody in Canada last year cause ALL the Macs sold were Apples (obviously) while the PCs came from 100 different vendors. None of the PC vendors here have 1% market share! That'll change soon though with all the drastic PC price cuts we're seeing from the tier-one and tier-two companies. IBM here has already started an "independent" (yeah, right) company (of 5 people!) to market clones. I've seen TV ads already. Their clones are just what they're supposed to be, cheap AT-bus machines. They'll sell! The no name guys either have to slash prices or say good-bye. Now C=, like Apple, holds the reins exclusively. And I tell people that if the Amiga had half the resources throw at it that the Mac does, there wouldn't BE other platforms. NeXT is getting places. It's not well-known but it's happening. I think they get a higher profile than Ami despite the smaller user base because they've got a name front man (well, two). People know who Jobs is and when he talks, they listen. C= doesn't have someone like that. I notice the other platforms moving to things Ami's had for a long time. Graphics copros on PCs, interapplications communications on Macs. Before long, they may qualify as second-rate Amigas. 😀 Malcolm
#66928From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 23, 1992 5:48 PM
Malcolm, In many areas, the other machines surpass the Amiga. They will eventually have all that the Amiga started with – sound, animation capabilities – things that were thought to be frivolous. And then, they will be the NEW THING. Amiga will never really receive any credit for its pioneering and excellence. Look at multi-media. Whatever _that_ is. Even tghe Amiga/Toaster as significant a piece of equipment that it is in the television industry, gives no real recognition for the underlying machine. Mac users are told that it is a Mac accessory! New Tek actually disguises the machine! Rich
#66651From: Mark D. ManesAug 21, 1992 12:15 AM
Rich, I think you are missing the big picture here. You make the assumption that Americans in general pick the better mouse trap when given a buying decision. History itself is proof that this is not true. There is no amount of marketing that Commodore could do to change the tide the PC has created. Just ask Apple who is struggling to stay alive in a market that they had created for themselves–desktop publishing. Apple knows how to market, and does market, and yet there still is not a Mac on everyones desk. So to blame Commodore is to really blame the average computer buyer for not doing more than trying to find cheap access to 'pirated' software to do a specific task. You might also consider that most people today view computers like any other appliance. To them, they see no difference except price and the guarentee that their $1000 purchase will last for life. Are you aware that Commodore co-ops with dealers to help pay for advertising? Are you aware that Commodore has preserved the profit margin for Amiga dealers so that they may be profitable? Are you aware that ComputerLand and Entre' are now mere shells of their former self? ComputerLand had wonderful marketing, what they couldn't fight was the influx of cheap PCs, and they were selling mainstream machines! How in the world can Commodore compete except the way it is competing–in target markets like desktop video and multimedia? Every Amiga sold, even for multimedia and desktop video is another Amiga that will need a word processor or a spreadsheet in the future. I have yet to see an Amiga installation that did not require some type of general computing productivity software. Their *is* a market for *good* business applications for the Amiga. What there isn't a market for is bad products with software companies that are expecting to turn the quick buck. Tell me, how in the world do the folks at Gold Disk and Soft-Logik stay alive if there is no money to be made? Remember to be a good dealer I have to be a cheerleader for Commodore and [ MORE ]
#66652From: Mark D. ManesAug 21, 1992 12:15 AM
[ continuation ] their products — and I must do it on a daily basis. For the most part, I don't find it a difficult task, and yes, we are making money selling Amiga computers and software. -mark= – whappity whap whap… whap whap!!
#66929From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 23, 1992 5:49 PM
Mark, Either I completely mistated myself or you misunderstood something that I had meant to say. I agree with you. I do _not_ think that the public necessarily buys a better mouse trap. The computer public is still experiencing as much computer phobia as it was when Lotus 123 first came out. A PC clone is _still_ the safest thing to buy. The typical computer buyer, corporate or private is scared to death to have something the slightest bit different from the most typical configuration. But I _can_ take CBM to task for all the utter stupidity that they have demonstrated in all the years of Amiga's existence. The Amiga 1000 was a _far_ superior machine to the Macs of that time. CBM could have had an enormous marketing advantage if they had properly pursued name software vendors. At first they _did. Microsoft was on the team! Borland promised to support the machine. CBM should have pursued Lotus and WordPerfect at the expense of everything else. Development that was unique to this machine could have still progressed. The DTP market was available for anyone who had the nerve to take on Apple. CBM didn't. The Next machine unfortunately is an example of a brilliant machine that also is in trouble. Job's clout not-withstanding. That machine should be killing high end Macs. It's not. And with Windows NT one one side and Sun's Solaris on the other, Next may be finished very soon. Rich
#66453From: Mike ToddAug 19, 1992 1:18 PM
Richard I'd heard there'd been a bit of `bad-blood' between Adobe and Gold-Disk in the early days … and it's probably true that this is the main reason why CompuGraphic support was provided, plus the fact that a CG font engine was fairly readily available. I agree 100% with your comments about G-D … they have _massive_ potential in ProPage, and could indeed knock spots of Quark (which I met for the first time just recently, and was pleasantly surprised) but I just feel that the will is not there, and that they are spoiling the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar. Mike (from the UK)
#66528From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 19, 1992 11:42 PM
Mike, Gee, I hope Gold Disk is listening. Don't sell Quark too short, though. It is quite a significant piece of work. But Pro Page _could_ do better, if they had the desire. However, I think that Pagestream is closer to that goal, having extensively used all three. Rich
#66547From: Mike ToddAug 20, 1992 1:23 AM
Yes, PStream is indeed closer to teh goal …. but there are still some nice things about PPage, but it's getting harder and harder to use.
#66630From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 20, 1992 10:41 PM
Mike, I left Propage a couple of years ago. But I think I will revisit it to see if it will allow me to handle large graphic files. PgS will not. I have modified my PgS prologue file to place four registration marks on the page, rather than the usual two. If I can make both programs output their registration marks at precisely the same place on the page (and I don't see why I can't) I can use them in tandem to accomplish both graphic handling and type 1 font handling. As a matter of fact, apropos of our other discussion re EPS files. Maybe I can use one program as the host for the other's PostScript output. My choice would be to write the PgS PostScript code to a file, then encapsulate it and let it serve as an addendum to the Pro Page prolog. Whew! what a rube Goldberg that will be! Sure hope that either ProPage gets type 1 capability or that PgS gets external file handling ability! Rich
#66472From: [F] ArnoAug 19, 1992 2:20 PM
Richard, Part of the decision to stay with CGFONTS was based on CBM endorsement of outline fonts as a WB font. This would mean that you would still only require one font type on your system. What is that they say about hindsight. Philip Laitar Supervisor
#66529From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 19, 1992 11:42 PM
Philip, What they say about hind sight is that it is 20-20. But what 'they' also say is that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. So, G-D went with the wrong font technology. Forget it. Include type 1 capability _now_ and get it done. What's the problem? Why is G-D avoiding the obvious and the inevitible? Rich
#66817From: Mike ToddAug 22, 1992 12:40 PM
Richard I agree entirely with that. There's certainly nothing wrong with going down the CG road _in_addition_ to Type-1, after all that's exactly what PStream has done with consumate success. Gold Disk's argument of trying to unify the font environment would stand much more chance of being believed if they had adopted the same one-file CG approach as Commodore and SoftLogik. Mike (from the UK)
#66948From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 23, 1992 7:51 PM
Mike, Since my last message, I have re-installed Pro Page on my machine, just to check out the (external) bit map handling. It's quit slow in loading, but otherwise works as advertised. I had forgotten what the program felt like. Funny, like an old friend! Then I saw an ad for Pro Page 3.0 which states that it _does_ support Adobe type 1 fonts. It's Sunday here. No chance to call Gold Disk right now. Are you faniliar with the new 'type 1 font capabilities? Rich
#66950From: Mike ToddAug 23, 1992 8:24 PM
Richard … yes, I am familiar with the `type 1 font capabilities'. But, they are a little misleading in their claim that PPage3 supports Type-1 … PPage 3 itself does _not_ support Type-1. What they have done is provided a stand-alone program which will take a Type-1 and create a CG font from it. It's a very clumsy solution, but I guess it works (although it is far more sensitive to problems with Type-1 fonts than, say, PStream). Mike (From the UK)
#66974From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 23, 1992 9:17 PM
Mike, Thanks. Holy Cow! It's the middle of the night in GB. I'm looking at my screen of SunClock which I just downloaded. I didn't expect a response so soon! Rich
#66979From: Mike ToddAug 23, 1992 9:37 PM
<he he> I'm at my most active at this time of night … to be fair, I'm actually in the office at work through the night (working 7 x 12-hour night shifts) and I often get a little time to pop online in the wee small hours. For instance, it's now 0335 🙂 And I'm here for another 6 hours … it also gives me a chance to join in the CO where other UKers don't get the chance 🙂 Mike (From the UK)
#66955From: Christopher TolmieAug 23, 1992 8:39 PM
Rich, PPage 3.0 does handle Adobe type 1 fonts, but only after you use the Type 1 font as the source in Fontmanager, which then generates a CG format font that will be used by PPage. Direct Type 1 use is not implemented, (hopefully) GD will see that although C= is supporting CG use, the rest of us want direct Type 1 support. So now I have two font libraries, one for Type 1 fonts and the other for their Compugraphic clone cousins (the same but different). My hard drives are mostly filled with fonts these days. Chris
#66975From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 23, 1992 9:17 PM
Chris, Thanks for that info. Looks like I'll start using Pro Page again. I'll just create the CG version of the type 1 fonts that I need as I create each new document that (also) has halftones on it. That will be a lot easier than creating the document in two programs (one to handle the text and the other to handle the halftones). The question will be, which will happen first – my hard drive fills with fonts or PgS finally supports external graphic handling! PgS will remain my main page layout program, at least for a while. Maybe I'll get to like Pro Page again. Maybe it will actually get real type 1 support. Does Pro Page have the editing capabilities of Pgs – that is global replace one typeface (font) with another? This capability is a MUST. Rich
#67012From: Malcolm O'BrienAug 24, 1992 1:13 AM
Rich, Yes, there's a Function Genie to do a global replace of typefaces. Malcolm
#67130From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 24, 1992 10:57 PM
Malcolm, Thanks. Genies? Never heard that before. Oh, well. A macro by any other name. Rich
#67075From: Mike ToddAug 24, 1992 2:27 PM
Richard That's excatly how I work … if I need a Type-1 font in PPage, I convert as required. This requires me to run two different programs externally to PPage (FontManager to generate the CGfont and CG_update to ensure that PPage knows it exists). I considered doing a major conversion on all my Type-1 fonts but PPage doesn't have any mechanism to manage the large directory that would result. In addition, having the same fonts in CG and Type-1 format on the same HD seems a total waste of space … there's really no need to keep the CG format there for the benefit of WB2 (how many fonts do you really want with WB2?), so Type-1 is my default format. Now, I wonder how long it will be before PStream adds True-Type support? As for Global typeface replacement, there's a Genie called SubstituteFont which will do this for you (assuming you didn't use tags of course, when a simple style change will have the same effect). By the way, those PPage3 Genies are just _wonderful_ … every time I use them I love them more. I just had to do a complex print run, changing the ordering of pages (across three different document files!) and adding binding offsets. There's no way PStream could even approach doing this … but it took me about 10 minutes to write the Genie, and I then left PPage to get on with it. If I'd sat and done this at the keyboard it would probably have taken 6-8 hours! Do any other DTP packages on other platforms have this sort of near-infinite power? I'm also trying to write a couple of Genies to give PPage full and proper font management … it will also give `direct' Type-1 font support in that you can list all the Type-1 fonts on your system, chose the one you want and it will do the conversion and add it to the CGfont directory. The problem I'm having (is GOLD-DISK listening?) is that FontManager is only GUI-driven … I would _love_ a command line option FONTMANAGER PsDir:Type1.PFB CgDir: Mike (from the UK)
#67078From: Michael GerardAug 24, 1992 3:14 PM
"Now, I wonder how long it will be before PStream adds True-Type support?" Mike: Ughh! I keep hoping that if I ignore TrueType long enough, it will disappear. The last thing I want is ANOTHER font format! Type I suits me just fine. // Michael \X/ …on AutoPilot
#67134From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 24, 1992 11:11 PM
Mike, The Genies sound great. But what do you mean that Pro Page has no way of managing the large directory that would result from converting a large number of type 1 fonts? True Type. It will _completely_ replace type 1 in less than 18 months. Adobe's multiple master technology may survive, but True type will probably conquer that as well. Sad. A year ago I would have scoffed at such a statement (and did). Remember, you read it here first! Oh, yes. Amiga programs will get True Type support about 3 years after the rest of the world has embraced it. Rich
#67168From: Malcolm O'BrienAug 25, 1992 12:09 AM
Mike, CG_update you say? Don't have it! I'll have to tell myself it's not important. 🙂 You've run into one of the situations where a Genie is the only way worth considering. Just the binding offsets alone would be SO time-consuming! I don't think any other DTP has such near-infinite power; however, Microsoft Publisher has Wizards. I don't know if they're any more than simple macros though. Malcolm
#66466From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportAug 19, 1992 2:08 PM
Yes, Atari 2.2 has a draft gadget in the Greek Text requester. This turns off outlines to screen and uses bitmap screen fonts only. This is a fast mode but degrades screen quality. It is especially important on the Atari since almost all users have 8 MHz machines, whereas the Amiga has a large number of users with faster machines. It is not available in Amiga 2.2. (Atari 2.2 came out later than the Amiga version.) Graphics must be imported and retained interally at this time. We plan on supporting external file links in the future. Michael Soft-Logik
#66507From: Mark D. ManesAug 19, 1992 10:03 PM
I am curious, how well is the Atari product doing? Is the Atari still a viable product in the United States? -mark= – whappity whap whap… whap whap!!
#66599From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportAug 20, 1992 3:39 PM
We're still selling PageStream for the Atari and did port the good parts of Amiga 2.2 to the Atari recently. (The Atari version didn't get the new requester designs or HotLinks.) Our Amiga version far outsells the Atari version and is our primary platform. All development originates on the Amiga. But we're not losing money on the Atari version, and unlike WordPerfect, we don't drop products when they 're earning money. 😉 Michael Soft-Logik
#66603From: Mike SchillerAug 20, 1992 4:58 PM
Michael: Is it true that you folks have a Mac & PC version of PgS in the works? // -Mike Schiller \X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
#66810From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportAug 22, 1992 12:35 PM
No, we are only working on PageStream for the Amiga at this time. We do have Macs and PC's in the office, but the PC is used for the BBS (didn't know what else to do with it) and we use the Macs for admin since there wasn't any good database and networking products for the Amiga when we set the system up. But we are not programming on any platform other than the Amiga at this time. Michael Soft-Logik
#66530From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 19, 1992 11:42 PM
Michael, Thanks for the answer. But I don't think I really made my point. Since graphics must be imported and retained internally, the reality is that Pgs makes it a practical _impossibilty_ to use even medium sized b&w haltones or even very small 24 bit images. This is a _very_ serious shortcoming, and probably as serious as ProPage's inability to use type 1 fonts. It would probably simplify Pgs code if it stopped reatianing the file internally. Is there any way that this kind of change could be made quickly? Who at Soft Logik makes these kind of decisions? In case Soft Logik hasn't noticed, the abilty to handle graphic files gracefully and successfully is (has been) a part of almost every other DTP program of any worth. Rich
#66574From: Christopher TolmieAug 20, 1992 10:40 AM
Richard, If I recall correctly, Pagemaker also retains the graphic internally. QuarkXpress does not, which used to cause problems with some of our first time clients. They'd bring us the disk file sans external graphic file. Our VT4300P would image a nice page with a bitmap rendition of the structured drawing. Here is something you may find interesting. If you'd like to extract the Illustrator file from within a Pagemaker document, Launch Illustrator, and select open and choose the pagemaker file. Illustrator will search through it and load the first illustrator file it finds. If this isn't the one you want delete it from the pagemaker document from within pagemaker, resave (another filename of course) and repeat the process. It works, and can be helpful if you'd like to use that vector drawing somewhere else. Chris
#66631From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 20, 1992 10:41 PM
Chris, I try to avoid Pagemaker as much as possible. Ugh! I break out in hives just thinking about it. The Mac version is bad enough. The Windows variety is a dog (as is Windows). Unfortunately, my customers won't let me get too far from it. Some days I have to spend all day just to get one file to print. Rich
#66638From: Christopher TolmieAug 20, 1992 11:19 PM
Rich, I have had my problem files with PMKr for MAC. Mostly it boiled down to Adobe Illustrator art in them that caused the VT4300 to choke. Many times the art had to be resaved with (oh I can't remember the exact wording) a feature turned on that broke up the vector drawing's path into segments. Or save the Illustrator as an 88 version instead of 3.0x. I did like to extract the embedded ART files from a client's job though. Got my Visa and Mastercard artwork that way!. Course I could've made it myself, but hey, that's what secret tips are for! That was my specialty, getting errant files to print. But I'm no PS guru, just a mechanic. B^) chris
#66930From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 23, 1992 5:49 PM
Chris, I have had no problems with Pagemaker and AI files. It's Windows PM that is the real stinker! Rich
#66600From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportAug 20, 1992 3:42 PM
We're very aware that retaining graphics externally is something you really need for high resolution and color images, but sorry, we don't have it in our current version. It's high on the wishlist for the next major version. It would be difficult for you as a user to somehow modify your files to do it. Actually, impossible I should say. It'll probably be implemented via HotLinks because then you'd just subscribe to an edition and retain the original externally as an edition. Michael Soft-Logik
#66628From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Aug 20, 1992 10:40 PM
Mike, I sure hope that PgS provides the ability to externally handle graphics _real _ soon! This is an absolute must. This area of pre press is exploding faster than I can believe. Right now, I _must_ make the choice between splitting my jobs between Pgs on the Amiga, and either ProPage on the Amiga or Quark on the Mac. Staying on the same platform is an advantage, but working in a program that allows me to deal with large graphic files is essential to my survival. A few years ago, I switched to PgS for the single reason that it could handle type 1 fonts. Now inability to easily handle large files is becoming the test for not giving a program a vote of confidence in this industry! I don't know any Mac users anymore who don't work with, or don't expect others to be able to handle halftones. Everybody's got a scanner, or access to one. I hope that Soft Logik is listening. Rich
#66814From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportAug 22, 1992 12:37 PM
We will definitely add external graphic handling in our next major version but we have not announced any timetable for the next major upgrade, and it's a long ways off right now. We are listening to your complaints, bug reports and wishlist items and we will respond to all of them. Right now we're busy getting Art Expression out the door, plus are working on a few surprises. Michael Soft-Logik