#Multimedia platform
91 messages in this thread
I'm struggling with the future here.
As a confirmed Amiga user since the 1000 days, I've made my living using these
machines for years. Starting with desktop publishing, I've moved along with its
capabilities and am now doing more and more video work. Up until now, it has
been irelevant to my clients how I produce the stuff they pay me for. All they
care about is that it gets done on time and within budget.
But now I'm starting to propose to clients that they run multimedia programs at
their offices. Which means they have to have a computer to run it on. Do I tell
them to buy a clutch of Amigas because its a better machine for this kind of
work and easier to produce the programs?
Or do I bow to the "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" mentality and start
producing multimedia programs on a PC platform?
Comments anyone?
I would suggest sticking with the Ami for the simple reason that trying to
produce multimedia programs on a PC is like trying to clean your toilet with
your tongue – you can do it, but it makes you want to throw up and it isn't a
whole lot of fun.
Robert,
Good answer… I haven't laughed out loud at a forum message for
a while!
Tim
Robert,
Yep, I agree with you and Tim too. It made me chuckle!
C.Julson——->on AP
Robert… I'm still rolling on the floor… and I read your comment on
MultiMedia on PC's an hour ago!!!
ROFL helplessly…
::keeping message in AP to read to clients::
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Thanks for the, er, graphic analogy. I'm comforted my working environment is so
much more, palatable, shall we say because I use to Amiga rather than the PC.
Barbara
I've seen IBM multi-media kiosks set up in our local Space Sciences Centre
and was not impressed at all. Whenever an insert was done, it wasn't a
pixel smooth wipe or slide, it was slow/clunky, using large bands of pic
data being clearly put down and then shoving the image over about 40
pixels to lay down the next strip in their slideshow.
Also, the gadgets were slow when you clicked on them. When I did, I had to
wait 10 or more seconds to get another menu.
If IBM labelling is what they want, give it to them. If they want superior
performance for the best price, set them up with either Amiga 1200's or
4000's with AmigaVision installed. Although there are many other
multi-media programs for the Amiga, AV is currently the fastest and
easiest to set up and use. Also, the Amiga can network with PC's
optionally, anyhow, so it's hard to miss.
Vance
Thanks for your response.
I'm comfortable using the Amiga for kiosk-based presentations. Any other
platform seems unneccessarily complicated and expensive. But I'm exploring the
options for expanding into the training area. Anything I read about what's
currently happening in this area talks about interactive training programs on
CD-ROM "that you just put into your PC".
I know it's not that simple, but for a company looking to extend training
program to many employees, it's not feasible to buy all the extra Amigas they
would need to run an Ami-based program.
Hence my puzzlement on the future.
Barbara
Barbara,
I disagree with your statement about buying Amigas for training not being
feasable. I think developing training CDs for CDTV players would make an
elegant solution.
-Chris
Barbara,
I just put on a multimedia networking demonstration today at work with
my A2000, and was asked several times, "is that coming from CD-ROM?". I
would reply, "no, it is read from harddrive and then kept in RAM
(entirely)".
Most messy-DOS PC's are not capable of MM as they come out of the box,
hence, the CD-ROM distribution of graphics, etc; which the messy-dos PC
then just 'reads and displays' is a fairly simple solution.
Somebody, however, had to generate that CD-ROM and create or gather the
graphics, pictures, et cetera, and then develop special software. If you
have a CD-ROM producing capability, and your client is mostly messy-dos,
then the simplest solution for you might be to just "slap" it all to
CD-ROM and let them use it like a special disk.
If your client isn't locked in to a single platform, and there isn't as
much of a need for everyone in the organization to have their own,
individual access to whatever you develop, then, maybe a few A1200's (with
256 colors!!) will provide the "training base" that the customer can make
use of (eg; in a special or seperate "training room"). You could then use
AmigaVision, which is VERY EASY to use, to generate your/their training
program.
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
What you suggest is definately the direction of my thinking. Can you point me
in the right direction for info on producing CD-ROMs? Is it like writing to a
laser disk? Are there many production houses who have the capability (and can
do it from an Amiga, or do I show up with all the equipment?)
With the advent of the 1200, a clutch of them constituting a training room
would be an easy solution to sell.
Thanks, Barbara
Barbara,
Hmmm – unfortunately, I don't know any more about PRODUCING CD-ROMS than
you do, other than I know it takes an expensive piece of equipment. I
believe that there are "CD-ROM production houses", but don't know of any
right offhand. I would imagine that making a CD-ROM would be like writing
to a laser disk.
I know a little about CD-ROMS, but not as much as others do, I am sure.
There ARE different "formats", however, so you need to keep that in mind.
I think that the ISO-whatever standard is more platform independent than
some of the other formats, but this is just for the storing of the data on
the disks.
What is more of a compatibility problem is the software required to USE
what is on the CD-ROM, and the format and size of special data files (eg;
pictures, sounds, graphic brushes). You might get someone to produce a
CD-ROM based upon Amiga images, et cetera, that a PC CD-ROM player
wouldn't know how to handle, and vice versa. On the other hand, if someone
else can help you to find a happy common ground between Amiga CD-ROM usage
and PC CD-ROM usage, then you might 'be in business'.
The A1200 WOULD be a nice "system solution", and perhaps you could find
more than just MM on the A1200's that could be of use (?).
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
Barbara:
New Media Magazine (Mar. '93) mentions that Pinnacle Micro has shipped a
new CD-ROM recorder for only $3995. Records in multi-session PhotoCD,
Apple HFS, & ISO 9660 formats. The blank discs cost $39. Pinnacle's # is
714-727-3300.
It sounds like it'll only support Macs for now, though it IS a 1/2-height
SCSI device . . .
With cheap recorders like this, there should be an increasing number of
vendors who offer CD-ROM mastering service. Unfortunately, I don't know of
any myself, though I DO know they exist.
Good Luck,
Erik Flom
Thanks for the info.
Barbara
Thanks for the info.
Barbara
>With the advent of the 1200, a clutch of them constituting a training room
would be an easy solution to sell.
Yes, as long as you don't need to network them.
I have one client who really wants to use A1200s instead of PCs but we have no
way to network the 1200s. I have another client with a network of Amigas and
he is desperately trying to jack up the bid on the Amiga so he can go with PCs.
"So AmigaVision would be about $5000 then?"
"Oh. Well we also need to have a database to store all our records in."
"Oh. How much for an audio board?"
"Oh."
-Jerry
How come the client with the Amigas wants to go the PC route?
That's a good point about networking and the A1200. For the application I have
in mind, stand alone is currently ok. But who knows what will happen down the
road.
Barbara
>How come the client with the Amigas wants to go the PC route?
They just don't know the Amiga is really the only reason.
I expect there will be network solutions for the A1200 down the road. It makes
a great multimedia delivery platform. As long as you don't need to network
right now, like I do.
-Jerry
Jerry: Re your "…we have no way to network the A1200s…" comment to
Barbara in msg # 27967:
I would have presumed that one of the existing Amiga network solutions
(such as the Oxxi client software) would take care of this. As I
understand it, there are a couple of packages out there that let you
network one or more Amigas to a PC LAN, so you can share peripherals and
(I again presume) data files.
I'm hoping (and expecting) that someone will be coming out with a network card
for the A1200. As of right now, there is no word.
-Jerry
There are _plenty_ of PCMCIA network cards out there — just no drivers…
I'm not a happy camper about this, but I don't know enough (yet) to remedy
the situation.
Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot…..
Brian,
Money will almost certainly remedy the situation.
Jerry,
What sort of 'networking' do you want to do? Do you have any money to
fund the SW development (I think mostly you'd simply need the proper
driver for the network 'card')?
You can produce CDTV interactive applications on an Amiga by using
Amigavision Professional. Commodore will advise you on getting the
application transferred over to disc. Optonica in Britain has another CDTV
authoring system, and there's a third from an outfit in Texas (name
escapes me). For under $500 you can buy a CDTV player with audio/video
hooks right most TV monitors, and won't require a computer hookup. Very
portable, cost-effective. I suppose with careful programming you could
develop a CDTV application that could be ported with relative ease over to
CD-ROM format for use on other platforms, as well. Apparently, one
advantage to writing for CDTV is that the development hardware/software
costs are lower than for a comparable CD-ROM development setup.
Thanks for the info. I'll get on to Commodore to find out more.
Barbara
Barbara,
3M is a CD-ROM and LaserDisc pressing company. The problem with the
CD-ROMS is that you must be able to sell a lot of them, cause you'll be
doing a master copy which will cost you around $1,700 and then each
replica is very cheap. Also, remember a CD-ROM can store 650Mb of
information, so there is a potential problem on how to send the data to
3M. They offer a high-speed modem service for this, or you may have to
send them Magneto Optical or Syquest cartridges.
I wouldn't recommend for you to go CD-ROM. LaserDiscs (Video) are much
better with your programs and data stored in the computer. It's better for
a starting enterprise like yours. A LaserDisc will only cost $250 at 3M
(called an Alpha Disc, or write-once disc).
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Re LaserDiscs: I'm familiar with putting video on laser disks, but can you also
put other data as well?
Barbara
>>…can you also put other data as well? (in LaserDiscs)…<<
No Barbara, I was refering to the CD-ROM pressing service from 3M.
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Barbara,
if you think about it, once you've put all your backgrounds, animations,
talking heads, etc. on the videodisc, there's very little left for the Amiga to
do: put up a few buttons, display some text boxes… all of that can
comfortably fit onto a hard disk, and be quickly displayed, even on a 1200. For
training purposes, using a videodisc/Amiga combination takes advantage of each
unit's basic strengths. And Amiga Vision supports videodiscs directly. A 1200
would put out some truly gorgeous graphics, and you wouldn't have to learn a
whole new platform. (There's that toilet-cleaning thought again)
Blaq!
Hi Barbara —
For info on producing CD-ROMs, there are a couple of books in the technical
stores. MicroSoft's 1987 may no longer be current — Apple has a more recent
release ($15) — a couple of independent ones, too.
The big advantage of CD-ROMs isn't that it's any easier to use than a hard
disk-based presentation — it's the massive amount of digital information that
can be stored, the low marginal costs of production and distribution, and the
durability of the medium. If your presentation fits in free hard disk space,
then there's probably little need to press an optical disc. But if it's a *big*
file, or if you want to distribute it to a number of playback machines, or if
it's a occasionally-used file that you don't want cluttering your hard disk,
then that's where a CD-ROM helps.
The basic polycarbonate disc can be formatted in a bunch of different ways:
CDTV, CD-I, CD-Audio, Photo CD, more. ISO 9660 is a multi-platform standard,
but I'm not sure if the Amiga reads it. Service bureaus exist, and prices are
rapidly dropping. "One-off"s (a single pressing to check for correctness) are
currently quoting from $250 down to about $180, masters cost more, marginal
costs are quoted from $2 each down to $1.20.
But if you can avoid pressing discs, you're probably better off — less hassle.
I agree with what other folks have said in this thread, that it's easier to
sell a solution to a client's problem than a particular implementation of that
solution…focus on the features they want, not the platform…the back of
their mind is always looking for a reason *not* to buy, so finesse 'em by
refocusing on their problem.
best wishes,
jd
John … thanks for your input. Agree completly with the concept of focusing on
the client's problem.
Barbara
Barbara…
As a multimedia developer who uses Amiga technology exclusively, I can tell
you that there are several ups and downs to making the Amiga your sole
platform.
The downside is the obvious that you pointed out. IBM is an accepted
platform that requires almost no convincing on the part of the client to get it
approved for whatever job needs be done. Amiga's are typically a harder sell to
those who don't really know anything about it, other than 'hey, it won't run
Lotus, it must be garbage'.
The BIG upside to using the Amiga is that:
– you can develop much more easily on the platform
– you can usually develop applications cheaper, quicker and higher quality
– YOU will likely be the only one in your town doing it. If you decide to
adopt a DOS machine as your platform, you are all of a sudden in competition
with dozens of others in the same field of work in your city. Using the Amiga
sets you apart and in many cases gives you an edge.
There is no right or wrong answer here, as you know. It's all a matter of what
you think you can and cannot sell. It might be a good idea to start planting
Amiga ideas around your clients environment and see what kind of feedback you
get. Or better still, talk about results. Talk about smooth animation, sound,
quarter million color graphics (AGA machines). Once you sell a concept, it will
be difficult for a client to convince him or her self that he or she can do
without this concept. All of a sudden, the client is on YOUR side when it comes
to hardware choices.
Jim
You've made some good points. Thanks for your response.
I'm used to being one of the few Amiga users in the professional graphics
business. I don't expect my lino service bureau to do more than pump out my
postscript files. And for print stuff, my clients couldn't care less how we get
results, just that they're on time and on budget.
For video projects I am talking up the technology more as it is a competitive
edge. And I'm getting results. So I do find it gives me an edge to be an Amiga
user in the video/multimedia arena.
The thing that always peeves me personally is reading the mainstream magazines
and newspapers trumpeting the onslought of multimedia, how to do it, how
wonderful it is, etc. and finding few or no mentions of the Amiga. Is it better
that us converted keep this wonderful secret to ourselves, or should we let the
rest of the misguided souls in the Mac and PC world in on it?
Barbara
Barbara…
There's no point preaching to Mac or PC people or trying to convert them
over to the Amiga. In your case, I'd say it's to your advantage to keep it a
nice safe professional secret.
Jim
Mum's the word.
Barbara
Professional secret? Hmmm… Unless the Amiga gets some exposure, the Amiga
is not going to be worth talking about. the Amy needs exposure to gain
potential developers and keep the line going…no exposure, no Amiga!
Scott from Ioway
Scott,
I think the reference to "professional secret" was meant more to not
lamblast a client with the differences between platforms, but to be able
to use the Amiga to produce an acceptable product withOUT having to beg
for permission first to USE an Amiga.
After the acceptance of the delivered product, then it would be easier
to mention, "and it was done on an Amiga", and not have to worry about the
endless "non-messy-dos compatibility" squabbles. which usually are enough
of a deterrent, all on their own.
Definitely, the Amiga MUST be mentioned, but it WOULD be safer, to a
certain extent, to not harp too much on it BEFORE the product is made
available to the client. How else do you think do any of the other
commercial enterprises get you to switch to THEIR brand?
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
Jim (Barbara),
Right, on keeping the Amiga advantage "a nice professional secret". The
more time you spend justifying the Amiga or discussing the differences in
platforms, the more opportunities you provide for the "well, I dunno"'s to
crop up.
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
>>… Is it better that us converted keep this wonderful secret (the
Amiga) to ourselves, or should we let the rest of the misguided souls in
the Mac and PC world in on it? .. <<
The rest of the world is not misguided. I mean you can do MultiMedia in
the other platforms, but with a higher price tag. You should look at the
Amiga as a cost-effective solution. If a company wants to do MM in another
platform because they want to spend the extra bucks they can. But one
should always try to show the client what is the most effective way of
doing things.
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Barbara,
I agree with you that the "trade journals are biased", and to a certain
extant, they have a right to be: the Amiga marketplace is tiny in
comparison to both the messy-dos and Apple arenas.
Also, many messy-dos'ers don't realize that there ARE other computing
platforms, there is so much "channel noise" that they are involved with,
just within their own world.
I would also imagine that there are more publishing/advertising dollars
behind the messy-dos and Apple platforms. What can we say? We could spend
the rest of the century discussing this issue, but it won't change
anything, but, it is one item that does influence magazines and
reviewers/reporters.
Hopefully, the new spinoff production from IDG (AmigaWorld) will keep
the Amiga platform enough in the forefront to at least be recognizable by
other platform "diehards" or "sink-holes", though THEY are going to have a
tough time putting too much Amiga stuff in their new mag cuz of the
advertisers they will need to attract.
Keyboard magazine is dominated by messy-dos and Apple, but there also is
a fair showing of Atari and occassionaly Amiga. They, at least, don't seem
to get too bent out of shape when mentioning "that OTHER platform" (eg;
Amiga), but publications biased along advertising dollars will be very
reticent to allow any such intrusions.
Maybe some of the sources you encounter, would be interested in hearing
about the Amiga?
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
Barbara,
As a flexible kinda guy, I keep up with the PC market as well (a 486/33
multimedia system helps keep my A4000's ego boosted ;-). Chances are quite
good that your clients are going to have to spend so much money on their
PC systems to make them "multimedia ready" that it would cost them as much
as just getting Amigas and having _additional_ computers.
To convince them, simply figure the upgrade costs for a PC (you'll need
486/33, local-bus video [or at least a Windows accelerator if you're
running Windows multimedia apps, memory expansion up to 8MB], a stereo
sound card, and a CD-ROM drive), compared to the cost of the Amiga system
they'd need. (CDTV or A1200, depending on the application.) You can
justify the SAVINGS of the Amiga system. 🙂
PCs promise multimedia. Amigas deliver it.
(Hmmm… Nice slogan, Den. I hear Dave Archambault's old job is open…
🙂
What?? Dave Archambault is gone?
Steve
PS. You're right, that is a good slogan! 🙂
Steve,
Yeppers. Dave Archambault got a better offer from Warner records,
apparently.
(This is not a slam against David, because he's a genuinely nice guy and I
liked working with him, and he did a good job under the bizarre Commodore
restrictions, but I have to admit I'm amazed that any company would raid
Commodore's _marketing_ department for new employees. 🙂
Denny,
Archambault was the head of marketing, wasn't he? How long was he in that
position? I'd heard he'd been with the company for about seven years.
Steve
Steve,
Yep, Veep of Marketing. He'd been with Commodore since 86, but I don't
know if he was in that position the entire time.
Denny,
It would be interesting to see how long he'd been the head of marketing.
Considering some of the things I've heard him say recently, I'm not sure
I'm that upset Warner took him. Here's hoping that the new head of
marketing has the same sort of spirit that Eggebrecht has. CBM needs
someone who's excited about the Amiga in that position.
Steve
Denny,
Is Dave A. taking the AmigaMan with him? 🙂
– BobR
Bob,
We can only hope… Then again, I haven't seen ANY ads since he left..
Ads???? I haven't seen any ads at all..except in AmigaWorld, but there's no use
convincing Amiga users to switch to Amigas…
Scott from Ioway
More people than just Amiga users pick up AmigaWorld. I agree with you
though…If they picked up AmigaWorld already, they're already interested.
Commodore should place ads elsewhere to get more exposure.
Steve
Scott,
There have been lots of ads. InfoWorld, PC Week, specialty multimedia and
music mags…
<Stomping>
Ooooo, will you stop it about the Amiga Man? I think we're too used to
playing the Wounded Victim to realize that C= has finally come out with an
effective Brand Recognition campaign. I can spot a C= ad a mile away with that
little guy, and C= is keeping everyone on their toes by seemingly producing a
new ad every other month. I don't share your qualms about the cartoony image,
since the industry as a whole is embracing multimedia in a big way, and the old
put-downs (the Amiga is just good for graphics, who needs that many colors,
sound-SCHMound, etc.) don't carry as much weight now that everyone wants to
cloak themselves in the graphics/sound image.
Perhaps the best thing would be to ask IBM/Mac owners what _they_ think of the
Amiga Man, and to interpret their replies a grain of salt, considering most of
them have blinders on.
Blaq!
Hey, I'm with ya on the Amiga Guy. Nearly a decade ago, IBM was using the
Charlie Chaplin character to sell its PCs and nobody thought *that* was
weird.
Charles,
I tend to agree with you. Even if he's generally regarded as obnoxious
and stupid, he (the Amiga guy) can still be quite an effective tool for
brand recognition. Some of the most effective advertising icons (as
evidenced by their long-term durability) have been obnoxious and/or
stupid. Examples? How about Mr. Whipple, the Charmin man, or Rosie, with
the 'quicker-picker-upper' paper towels? We could have a great time just
thinking about all the 'stupid' ads we are exposed to every day. (Just
tell me you're not smiling right now thinking of a couple! 😉 )
I cringed every time I saw those ads, but you can bet I remembered them
and the products they pitched. The amazing thing about human nature is
that as long as you can get people to remember your product, then the
vehicle used to plant that memory is nearly irrelevant.
The key is to keep your product in peoples' minds. And that means a long
term commitment to developing and maintaining an identification for your
product. This is something Commodore really hasn't done much of before.
The Amiga desperately needs to be noticed and remembered by more people,
as it's drowning in all the 'noise' created by the other platforms. The
Amiga guy, for all his faults, at least separates and distinguishes Amiga
ads from the rest.
I don't mind Amiga guy, but I do wish the ads had just a little more
'meat' in them. Just mentioning some of the truly unique things the Amiga
can do could bridge the gap between curiosity and interest. That could be
enough to get people to actually seek out a dealer and get their hands on
one. And *that* is the whole purpose of the ad.
//
\X/ Amiga -Steve ——> On AutoPilot from Silicon Valley
One of the reasons for the C64 doing so well up here in Canada, when it
came out, was due to their tv advertising campaign. If they made those
same kind of hokey spots, the Amiga would do far better than it is, as far
as recognizing goes.
I can still remember the jingle,"..I adore my sixty four, my Commodore
sixty four…".
Vance
I guess we were spared those ads here in the U.S. <grin>
//
\X/ Amiga -Steve ——> On AutoPilot from Silicon Valley
It's kind of a shame, really. Those C64 tv ads were playing up here in
Canada (Daytime!), timed to run when the kids would get out of school and
head home. That really worked!
One spot which had that jingle I mentioned, had a kid talking on the phone
with a friend. He stuffs the C64 into his backpack, jumps on his
skateboard and does some fancy boarding to his friend's house.
Ah, those were the innocent times, when home computing still had that
fresh, naive, innocence.
Vance
Ah, but do you recall the C64 theme music? The one on the tag end of
every Commodore commercial of the time and at the end of the infamous
Rolling Christmas Demo? (I believe it was one of Bach's Two Part
Inventions, which one I don't recall exactly…)
.–>Steve Bennett
Kinda like that stupid pink bunny rabbit, going and going…
Or from way back…
"I can't believe I ate the whooooole thing"
–Paul < Motorola Inside >
The 'Energizer Rabbit' is definitely in the class I was referring to.
Jeez, how long have those ads been running now, anyway? (For that matter,
the 'Coppertop' ads are very nearly as dumb.) There are so many examples,
how about 'scrubbing bubbles'? I think those ads are DUMB, but mention
'bathroom cleaner' and guess which one pops to mind?
Right now, if you mention computer, most people think of PC or Mac.
Somehow, Amiga has to be added to that list. I was reading messages on
another network, and one user mentioned the Amiga front end program he was
using. Another user chimed in 'what kind of PC is an Amiga, I haven't
heard of them. Is it a 486?' Yet another answered, 'an Amiga is a
computer that can't run PC software.' 'Oh', he replied. Makes you kinda
sick, huh?
In order to buy an Amiga, a person has to seek them out. That means the
person has to have a real interest in finding out more about them; it
takes a real investment of time and effort to even find out where they can
be purchased. Clones and Macs are available everywhere, Amiga's aren't.
Here in the Bay Area, where the Amiga (Lorraine) was born, there was a LOT
of excitement about the machine when it was first being revealed. Most
people I knew had heard of it. Now most are surprised to find that its
even still around. Amiga guy might help change that. I don't think it
would matter much if everybody on Earth thought Amiga guy was stupid; at
least they'd all know the Amiga still existed!
//
\X/ Amiga -Steve ——> On AutoPilot from Silicon Valley
Now here's a coincidence for ya. Just changed my AP .tag today….
-DonM – On Autopilot from 1Q1 –
Chickenlips doesn't sell Amigas, we just buy them!
There are outside distributors of the Amiga now, who were big in PC's and
Mac's. One is Merisel, but I'm NOT terribly impressed with their treatment
of the A4000, for example. They have it classified as a 486. Nice, huh…
Vance
Did he go to Warner records, or Time-Warner as in Time Warner 's multimedia
group?
Warner records, as I heard it.
>> PCs promise multimedia. Amigas deliver it. <<
Hey Denny… what are you smoking lately? Can I have some of it?
Hell of a slogan if you ask me…
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Thanks for your response. Those are the kind of comparisons I'm going to have
to make… work out a price for a DOS system that does an inferior job to an
Amiga.
I guess I need to do a reality check from time to time. I read all the press
about the new exciting field of multimedia and all the neat stuff you can do on
Macs and PCs. And I think, yeah but it's not really so great. Then I wonder, am
I missing something, why would all those people spend so much money achieving
something on those other platforms that's a pale imitation of what an Amiga can
do. Then I wonder — why aren't more people using the Amiga?
"Why aren't more people using the Amitga?"
—> Commodore.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Ben —
point taken.
Barbara
Barbara,
I was asked once to justify my interest in an Amiga, in relation to
messy-dos, and I said something like, "if you're driving a Porsche now,
would you want to go back to a VW" (Beetle) ?
We Amiga-ites have been spoiled since we have HAD OUR "Porsche" for a
long time, now, but the messy-dos and Mac world, is moving ahead a bolt at
a time, and is just NOW beginning to realize that what they originally
started out with ain't what it ought to have been.
They see new horizons that didn't exist for them (before), that we have
had for years. So for them, it's, "new…., new….., new….", but for us
it's, "I've already got ……, I've already got………, I've already
got…", and it is that NEWNESS that is the biggest driver of the
marketplace.
Why aren't more people using the Amiga? Boy – we could talk about that
"until the cows came home", and probably not run out of reasons. One
possible reason is "identifiability". Messy-dos'ers appear to be more in
the "social center" whereas Amiga-ites appear to be more in the "social
outhouse".
"We" are "niche players" while "they" are "cattle herds" (sometimes). A
lot of what we see today is the result of much effort, or lack thereof, in
manufacturers, developers, retailers, and consultants who put certain
platforms into many social and economical arenas. I have always felt that
if CBM would ATTACK the entire educational world at a level that IBM and
Apple has, that their respective marketplace and viability would be much
more than what it is today.
One of the biggest drawbacks to our platform, is the lack of authorized
dealers and other retailers selling "our" products. My nearest authorized
dealer is neary 100 miles away, and I DON'T live in Alaska!
CBM definitely needs to develop a more viable marketing effort in the
US, but they like the smell of Europe better, it would appear (not to
slight any USERS from Europe, mind you).
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
Jim,
I'm gonna throw my $.02 in the pot here and say I agree with you.
Especially, on the dealer issue. I have gone thru several dealers (all
were big stores pushing Ibm clones with Amiga stuff in a corner) until I
found an Amiga only shop. It's small and comfortable, people come and hang
out, got a loyal following. The dealer has made some in-roads into the
local school system and community collage, however he complains of
problems with Cbm and is frustrated. If he did not exist in my area, there
would be alot less Amigas around. It is almost like Cbm is suppressing the
market here in the US, by its lack of promotion and support. Who can
figure? Maybe, Ibm and Apple have "agents" disguised as Cbm execs who are
doing it. Well, that's my 2.5 cents…………..
Here's to the Amiga's expansion, despite all obstacles.
CNJ——–>on AP
Chris,
If CBM were wiser, they would allow non-Amiga-only shops to become CBM
authorized dealers/repair shops, in a way that would enCOURAGE them to do
so (not, "you have to stock $50 million worth of 'our' stuff, or forget
it", or whatever the requirements are).
While single-system dealers and repair centers do well enough in the
non-CBM arena, they do not do so well as CBM only ventures. I have seen,
oh, 3-6 dealers/repair centers "dry up" in Saint Louis, Missouri, over the
last 4-7 years, and it is hard, for some reason, to find MUCH of ANYTHING,
even in the Chicago area!
If CBM could develop a plan AND policy that would support non-CBM
ventures in such a way as to help them to be profitable WITH the CBM gear,
then we all would see at least a better foundation to work from, and
perhaps, even some slight expansion.
I feel for CBM dealers since they are in such a niche market, and they
really don't have a lot of luxuries as do other platform dealers (eg; tons
of supporting books in bookstores, additional "software shops", etc.).
On the other hand, CBM has to do a better job of supplying items to
dealers, regardless of whether they have a mega-buck inventory or not. I
certainly won't go back to a dealer for CBM related equipment if I have to
wait 6-12 months for a single part order to get filled, because the dealer
in question doesn't have as much of a CBM sales history/inventory as they
do Macintoshes.
If nothing else, visit your local Amiga dealer and "cheer them up". They
may make only enough money to survive, and your platitudes towards them
may give them the necessary incentive to STAY CBM dealers.
I would like to see Sears, Montgomery Wards, et cetera, at LEAST sell
the A1200, and even better, the A4000, but CBM has to do enough
"plowsharing" to make that happen, AND, they need to guarantee delivery of
ordered items. K-Mart used to handle C-64's, but gave up when their orders
weren't being filled in a timely manner.
I don't know if CBM is consciously "supressing" the Amiga marketplace in
the US or not. Maybe they are, for the gains elsewhere?? It is more
likely, that they have yet to find the multifaceted, long term AND short
term marketing policies that will expand the US Amiga marketplace. It
appears that CBM keeps trying to find "short term miracles", and then
"rotates the crop" when they don't materialize.
I ALSO don't believe that it helps having a CEO who earns MORE than the
CEO of IBM!! It would appear that most of the profits earned by CBM go to
make certain components of CBM, "happy to be a part of the crowd", more
than pushing its frontiers. I have to digress a little here, since CBM HAS
improved on WorkBench, DID produce the A1200's and A4000's, is supposed to
have completed a final version of Unix, IS in the process of upgrading
their Ethernet based TCP/IP software, but, there would be more R&D capital
if there were less exotic executives (?).
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
I agree it is the newness of MM that's causing all the excitement. And with all
the rest of the herd jumping on the bandwagon I wonder if it is time to look
for less crowded fields to conquer …
I'm in Canada and CBM, I understand, has always done relatively well here,
especially in the educational market. However, acceptance in a country this
size does not promote the image and credibility that would result with a higher
profile in the US. And Europe, I've been told, is more into games and less
intensive professional applications (whatever that means).
I'm also lucky that there are at least three solid dealers nearby (with people
that actually use the Amiga and know what they're talking about) and a whole
slew of other smaller dealers who carry the games and magazines.
Cheers, Barbara
Barbara,
Where in Canada are you? I visited Toronto, Montreal, and Quebec last
summer.
The educational market takes time to develop, nurture, and expand, and
while CBM has made a "hit" with a one or two universities in the US, they
are otherwise, non-existent. I believe CBM DOES have an educational
'person' or 'position', but I certainly don't know what they do.
I could well believe that Europe is more into games than "business
software", but CBM needs to develop a REAL business center SOMEWHERE to
help balance the games arena(s). They also need to do more domination in
the video and multimedia arenas, not just hit a few magazines and then
take a nap.
You are inDEED fortunate to have so many apparently, reputable Amiga
dealers near you. Here's hoping they continue into the next decade!
Oh well – just like all other "diehards", I won't abandon my Amiga, EVEN
IF CBM goes belly up, but I don't see that happening, just yet.
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
I live in Mississauga which is one of Canada's fastest growing cities, right
next door to Toronto.
Point taken about CBM.
Barbara
Barbara,
Etes-vous un francophone? 😉
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
Jim …
nope. A basic anglophone. My kids don't even attend french immersion! I used to
be able to speak french fairly competently, but around here I never have to use
it, so it's left me.
Barbara.
Barbara,
Right – a language not used becomes forgotten, quite easily – OK.
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
Barbara,
you're in Canada??? Heck, why then did I type the CBC's full name?
If you're in Toronto, phone the CBC and try to get someone to escort you
anywhere there's a touchscreen (the elevators past the guard at the visitors'
desk was my spot), just so you can see how fast, clean and professional an
Amiga Vision application can look.
Blaq!
I've passed the CBC building many times and told myself I must go in and check
out the interactive stuff, but always seem to be rushing off to a meeting or
some such. It is on my list of things do to as I've heard so much about them. I
did see a demo at WOC in December along with some Fiberglass Canada stuff.
Are you in Toronto, or P.Q?
Barbara.
What do you mean by "run multimedia programs"? That covers a lot of
ground. In general, though, I don't think there's much on the other
platforms that can touch the economy and flexibility of MM development
tools like Amigavision Pro or Scala Multimedia. Plus, the results are
quite portable. You could develop and run AVision programs on an A1200,
which makes a fine MM luggable or great MM kiosk server at a fantastically
low price. If, on the other hand, by MM you mean little videos in windows
that pop up on your word processor, or in an interactive database, then
*for the moment* Quicktime may be the best option. But you'll pay more.
I meant both types of multimedia programs, though I was speaking generally. I'm
doing the kiosk type with an authoring system and I'm comfortable using the
Amiga.
I am also looking to do the other type of interactive database you mentioned,
with videos in windows. Why would you say Quicktime is the best option?
Thanks for your response,
Barbara
QT at the moment may be preferrable for videos in windows, depending upon
your goals, because it's fairly a seamless implementation. It offers the
usual advantages of Mac system integration. However, look at the latest
issue of New Media magazine, which reports on QT, QT for Windows and
Microsoft Video for Windows. All three have the problem of overcoming
hardware limitations. There's a nice chart that shows you how enormously
their output will slow down if you bump up the image to full screen and/or
try for close to full-motion playback rates. Five frames per second on a
typically configured Mac or PC isn't much to shout about.
Then again, by cleverly keeping the image to quarter-screen or less you
can still make it look reasonably good. This is as true on the Amiga as on
the other platforms. CDXL videos on CDTV demonstrate how this can be. A
15-fps, quarter-panel video can be quite adequate for many purposes. If
you have Amigavision Professional and a CDTV player, you can take
advantage of the CDXL format to incorporate videos in your interactive
presentations (you can use AV Pro to drive laserdiscs, too, of course). My
guess is that soon, you won't need the CDTV player.
Some perceptual studies indicate that good audio is more important than
good video, or that palette is more important than resolution. The limits
or flaws in your system or your application can often be camouflaged by
clever design. Heck, I've seen 16-color EGA graphics on PCs that looked
mighty impressive. Good artists know how to fool the eye, and make the
most of their tools.
You can equal, more or less, the functions and output of QT et. al. on
Amigas, but the process isn't as seamless. You've got to pull together
different pieces of software yourself, and perhaps some hardware. I still
think the Amiga will be a more cost-effective platform in the short run,
since I expect Commodore to offer better-integrated video solutions in the
near future — but, if you're in a hurry and starting from scratch,
Quicktime may be a more *time*-effective way to go. Don't overlook the
learning-curve investment you'll have to make after acquiring *any* new
stuff.
Video compression technology is moving ahead so rapidly, everything that's
out there will seem quaint in about three years.
Ron —
I've got so much time and capital tied up in my Amiga systems, I doubt if I
really want to develop capabilities on another system to ulilize something like
Quicktime. Which is what my original question was all about. I'm trying to
avoid running parallel systems on different platforms. There's too much stuff
to my for one platform never mind two.
Thanks for the info on QT, I'll look out for that magazine. I agree about the
technology moving rapidly. Which compounds any decision-making about what
direction to go. Any equipment has to pay for itself in mere months nowadays or
it's not worth bothering with. (With the notable exception of my oldest A2000,
still chugging away after five years. In the meantime I'm on my third DOS box
… )
Barbara
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the company Gold Disk.
I know they offer a 'MutliMedia' package for Windows. They also have
packages for the Amiga. They may have some way of allowing you to produce
your work on an Amiga and then port it over to Windows where necessary. Of
course, they might not.
Just a thought,
Erik Flom
Barbara,
I also have had my A2000 for 4-5 years, and am quite happy with it.
Today, when I gave my multimedia (AmigaVision) networking demonstration at
work today, I was asked how long I had had my machine (as if it's
capabilities were brand new, as is the case of many multimedia products
today in the messy-dos arena), and whether I liked it ("of COURSE!").
Not only do they still not understand multitasking, but they can't
conceive of why it would be of any interest. At least MY "box" got some
fairly nice comparisons to an RS/6000 🙂
Real World:southern Illinois,USA Internet:ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
Hi Barbara —
Pardon my naivete, but do you have the option of producing on the Amiga, and
porting to the PC — using the Intel machine solely as a playback device?
That would be a cool way to create in the Amiga environment, but still have
access to that massive installed base of 386s out there — is there any way to
do such a thing?
John D.
(btw, where d'ya think some folks get their sense of humor…??)
Probably the more technical types in the crowd would be able to answer you
better. I agree it would be nice to be able to playback on a DOS box. But I
suspect it would be difficult.
Barbara
Barbara,
You have touched my everyday discussion. Generally my client's concern is
that after they've heard that strange name (Amiga) they instantly think
thay won't be able to use the information the company already has in their
PC's (or minis or whatever).
So I always get positive responses with these two tactics:
1) Think of the Amiga as a multimedia-specific black box. PC's ae good for
calculation, Macs are good for DTP (or so they say <g>) and the Amiga was
custom-constructed for animations and video. So they should look at it as
the most cost-effective way to do multimedia. You won't buy a Porsche to
carry bricks, do you?
2) The Amiga is totally open-architecture. This means that through a
couple of programs, data can be shared between other platforms and the
Amiga. (It can even emulate them, but clients don't usally get to this
point, they are already convinced at this time).
Hope this helps… 🙂
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Thanks for the ammunition. The cost-effective argument is always listened to
nowadays. But it's frustrating dealing with folks who have a ton of DOS
machines lying around after the last batch of layoffs who want to know why they
can't use their spare equipment.
Thanks for your response, Barbara
>>…it's frustrating dealing with folks who have a ton of DOS machines
lying around after the last batch of layoffs who want to know why they
can't use their spare equipment…<<
Yes, Barbara. It's also frustrating for IBM not having the capabilities to
be a real MultiMedia machine… 😉
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)