CompuServe Thread

#ProPage User Question

71 messages in this thread
#93047From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 25, 1993 9:43 AM
We're doing a small online survey here and on GEnie. What features would we have to add to PageStream to get you, as a ProPage user, to switch to PageStream? Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93070From: Ron LegroMar 25, 1993 2:08 PM
Well, first off, it's going to have to read ProPage docs. I've got too much invested in them to send them off to heaven by switching programs. I depend upon outline font output to printer, too, even though Postscript is essential for some jobs.
#93094From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 25, 1993 6:36 PM
"I depend upon outline font output to printer, too, even though PostScript is essential for some jobs." PageStream has always had outline font support. You can use Compugraphic, PostScript or Soft-Logik outline fonts. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93141From: Andre PageMar 25, 1993 10:37 PM
I have both programs already and use ProPage most all the time. PageStream is just TOO SLOW to use, constant redraws etc. Goofy on screen color representation, SLOOOW PostScript output, Can't output CG fonts to PostScript printers. Those are my main beefs, Just make it a little (LOT) "Snappier" and I might use it more. / / / //ANDRE /exit
#93192From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 26, 1993 9:23 AM
Thanks for the comments Andre. I hope we can fix all those in the future. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93884From: Andre PageApr 1, 1993 11:00 PM
Great! I forgot one other thing… What ever happened to support for the "Resolver" board and other SAGE boards? I'd switch NOW for that! / / / //ANDRE
#94361From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportApr 6, 1993 10:23 AM
Andre: we have no intention of adding support for the Resolver or other SAGE boards, and have always said that. We've never promised to support any of them. The problem with ALL existing amiga 24 bit boards is that they are framebuffers and are as such useless for desktop publishing. We're waiting for real 24 bit boards.
#93155From: David KieltykaMar 26, 1993 12:21 AM
Michael, Compared to PPage, I can't think of much PageStream lacks. There are many areas where, IMO, PageStream is superior. Font handling and management, for example. One thing I do like about PPage, though, is the ability to specify the amount of spacing between paragraphs. In PPage 3.0 you had to use style tags to get at this feature, but in PPage 4.0 you don't. PPage lets you enter a percentage value for the spacing, but a proper leading option would be handy as well. I find paragraph spacing useful for letters and other single-column documents. (Of course, using it in multi-column docs is a no-no.) I agree with Chris that numerical editing of box parameters is more cumbersome in PageStream than in PPage. Otherwise, I also agree with Chris. Forget about PPage and set your sights on QuarkXpress. -Dave (via AutoPilot)
#93193From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 26, 1993 9:25 AM
David: thanks for the comments. Paragraph spacing is high on my personal wishlist (I really wanted it for the Art Expression and TypeSmith manuals ;-( Why do you say numerical coordinate editing in PgS is more cumbersome than in PPage? What's wrong with the Edit Coordinates requester? Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93262From: David KieltykaMar 26, 1993 10:24 PM
Michael, Hmmm…I'm not sure *what* I was getting at when I said PageStream's numerical coordinate editing was more cumbersome than PPage's. 🙁 Lack of sleep or something…. I retract that comment. In PPage I do like being able to double-click on a box to bring up the editing window. I just realized I forgot to mention ARexx support in my previous message. PPage's extensibility via ARexx macros (aka Genies) is terrific in concept. I realize PageStream has macro capability, but a full ARexx interface would be much more powerful. I'm sure you've heard this before, though. 8^) -Dave (via AutoPilot)
#93322From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 27, 1993 12:59 PM
Dave: double click to edit. I think we put that in AE as an option, but most of our testers turned it off because of opening the requester by accident. ARexx support: yes, we plan to add full ARexx support to all future products. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93183From: Leonard AbbeyMar 26, 1993 5:04 AM
Read (and write) PPage documents. Print output to Dot matrix and non-postscript printers as good as PPage (without the need to special printer drivers for Pagestream only.) An inexpensive changeover price/upgrade. A long term upgrade/enhancement plan with some sort of cost structure, so we can plan ahead. and possibly others Leonard Abbey.
#93196From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 26, 1993 9:34 AM
Reading and writing ProPage docs: well, that would be nice, but very difficult. However, as we stated a long time ago in our HotLinks developer kit, we plan on using a new document format in the future for our program. IFF DOC. This format will be available to developers. Non-Postscript output: our output is really good, and the reason we use custom drivers is to make it faster than preferences. Our custom drivers are often twice as fast as preferences. Note that we doubled the speed of our HP drivers recently. (finally implemented compression.) Upgrade plans: well, we haven't charged for an upgrade in a long time. 2.2, which was a major change in interface, was a free upgrade. I believe 2.1 we charged just for the manuals, but if you didn't want them, it was free. 2.0 was our last paid upgrade, and that was a lifetime ago. We also do regular patch updates to fix minor problems. For example, we had free patches for 2.2 to 2.2HL to 2.21 to 2.22. The next upgrade will be a paid upgrade. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93301From: Paul ToalMar 27, 1993 6:46 AM
When is the next upgrade due? –Paul < Motorola Inside >
#93323From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 27, 1993 1:00 PM
Paul: ref: when is the next upgrade due? Well, I sort of opened myself up for that kind of question because I asked you what features you would like, but I can't say yet. However, WOC is in a week so we may make some sort of announcement. BTW, we'll be having a large booth at the New York show, and we'll have some great show specials. Be sure and stop by. We'll also have a rather large surprise. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93324From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 27, 1993 1:01 PM
Oops, I meant stop by if you're in that part of the country. (Although this show would be worth flying to. 😉 Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93276From: Nancy DevittMar 27, 1993 12:55 AM
I use both, and am, now, quite happy with the combination and an good customer of both your companies. You could add, for starters, two up printing. That's a biggie with me. Next, catch up with PPage in the graphics import area. It's kind of sad that PStr will not import your clip art (or a good deal of it), while PPage imports it all. And, I can get a full page of those clips on a PPage page with no slow down and not a hint of screen refresh problems. (Actually, I use both progs on a virtual page, so screen refresh is almost nil.)…..Nancy
#93325From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 27, 1993 1:02 PM
Two-up printing (printers spreads) are something people have been asking for for a long time. It's on the list. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93296From: ShraddhanMar 27, 1993 3:23 AM
Michael, One think I wishPageStream would do would be to allow the resizing of a group by means of the Edit Coordinates reequester. It can be done by using the mouse, but it is tricky to maintain the aspect ratio. Font selector – With several hundred fonts installed, I find it a pain stepping through a long list every time to select a font that is low down in the alphabet. It would help if the slider 'remembered' where it had been so that the next time I opened the font selector, the last font I selected would be in the window. What I'd like though would be to have some kind of 'directory' structure to the font list. AREXX support is a MUST. This would allow me to write programs that generated bar charts, pie charts, etc starting from raw data. More flexibility in selecting font sizes – e.g. the ability to have text that gets progressively smaller as you read along it. (Without having to specify the size of each and every character.) The ability to bend text around a curve. See-through pattern fills – so I can put one pattern on another and see both where they overlap. Screen re-draw on/off switch. It's a real pain having to wait when I'm making a load of minor changes and don't need to have the screen redrawn after each one. Make it easier to move around a page with high magnification. Suppose you have three columns of text on a screen, magnified up 800%, you're near the top of the left hand column and need to go to near the bottom of the right hand column… and you don't want to wait for the screen to be redrawn during the intermediate steps of getting there. Regards, Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire in the UK
#93326From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 27, 1993 1:05 PM
Edit Coordinates of a group: we added that in AE, and yes, it'll find its way into the next version of PgS. (We'll also add Shift constraints for resizing.) Sliders: I'll ask about that. I'm not sure if that is style guide correct, although I see your point. Text effects: those are best left to another program such as Art Expression. We have no plans to combine them into one program. See-through fills: no, because of PostScript limitations. In fact, we'll take away bitmap transparency for dot matrix users in the next version to end this confusion. It will work the same regardless of the printer. Screen redraws: well, I've always been against interruptible screen refreshes, but you'll get your wish. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93378From: ShraddhanMar 28, 1993 2:27 AM
Michael, If the next version of PageStream contains the improvements we've been asking for here over the last year or so, it will be great! Regards, Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire in the UK
#93469From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiMar 29, 1993 7:11 AM
ACK!!!! >>we'll take away bitmap transparency for dot matrix users in the >>next version to end this confusion Please don't remove functionality to make things "easier!" I've used the bitmap transparency feature with DeskJet printouts a few times for some rather neat special effects. (Overlaying on top of text, layering graphics, etc.) This is a useful feature for those of us without PostScript printers. You're talking about the ability to change the fill style to None so that Color 0 will be transparent, right? PLEASE don't remove this. You can do all sorts of neat stuff with it, and it doesn't mean a thing to many of us that it doesn't work with PostScript, since many of us almost never output to PostScript anyway.
#93475From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 29, 1993 10:02 AM
Denny: you can just put the bitmap picture in the background and then put text on top of it. The only reason for putting a picture on top of text and using the transparent nature of white pixels on non-Postscript printers was to overlay pixels of one color on text of a different color. (There were a couple of other reasons you may have wanted to do this but we have a few new features that make those reasons obsolete.) It is very important to maintain full WYSIWYG compatibility. We just can't allow the screen representation to differ from the printed output, especially when people pay $10 a page at an imagesetter and then learn that bitmaps aren't transparent to Postscript. If there is some effect that you think you would lose by us changing this, please let me know what it is and I'll see what I can do. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93489From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiMar 29, 1993 1:01 PM
Micheal, That's exactly what I was doing–overlaying pixels of one color on text of another color. And a few neat effects with frames and stuff. Oh well. If there are good reasons other than just to eliminate confusion, what the heck…
#93598From: ShraddhanMar 30, 1993 4:42 PM
Can I just add that the reason I wanted bitmaps to be transparent is that I've got a graphic which contains two filled polygons, and I want the printed output to show the outline of BOTH polygons, not just one or the other. This would necessarily mean that the bitmaps should be mutually transparent. If this facility is not compatible with PostScript, why can't PageStream just pop up a warning? Regards, Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire in the UK
#93604From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 30, 1993 6:50 PM
ref: This would necessarily mean that the bitmaps should be mutually transparent. If this facility is not compatible with PostScript, why can't PageStream just pop up a warning? ??? You mean, every time I print a file with a bitmap to PostScript, the program should warn me that what I see on screen is not what I'm going to get? ref: Can I just add that the reason I wanted bitmaps to be transparent is that I've got a graphic which contains two filled polygons, and I want the printed output to show the outline of BOTH polygons, not just one or the other. ??? I don't understand this. I assume you mean that your graphic is composed of two bitmaps which overlap and that the white pixels of one are cutting off the other. In a case like this, just combine them in paint program before importing. If it's all one bitmap, I don't understand how making white pixels opaque would change anything. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93942From: ShraddhanApr 2, 1993 3:34 PM
Michael, I would not be too happy if PageStream prevented me from doing something that I would like to be able to do (and which PageStream could cope with), just because a PostScript printer would not be able to cope – when I don't use a PostScript printer for output. Put another way, I'm not sure if it's a good idea for the functionality of a program to be deliberately limited because of the possibility that the user's hardware might not be up to the job. > I assume your graphic is composed of two bitmaps which overlap > and that the white pixels of one are cutting off the other. Yes, that's correct. > In a case like this, just combine them in a paint program before importing. The situation I'm in is that I need to construct a pair of overlapping irregular pentagons given a mathematical specification for each (i.e. the distance of each vertex from the origin, the vertexes being at multiples of 72 degree angles). It's vital that the final output shows BOTH pentagons in full, even though they overlap. Plus, the pentagons need to be visibly distinguishable. Constructing a single pair of such pentagons by hand is not too much bother. However, I would much prefer to be able to automate the process. Thinking more about this issue after I posted my message, I realised that if PageStream had AREXX, I could add the cross-hatching myself via an AREXX program, and the limitation of not being able to superimpose two bitmaps would be circumvented. Regards, Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire in the UK
#93686From: Roger HandMar 31, 1993 3:21 AM
I learned DTP with ProPage, and I like the degree of control it gives me, although the program can be frustrating at times. A while back I set up a system for a restaurant that would be using Microsoft Publisher on a Windows based machine. It's a entry- to medium powered DTP program. Fiddling around with it, I was amazed at how simple it made many tasks . . . like putting a graphic border around a text box, for instance, or getting the prices on menu items to all line up at the end of a string of dots, like this: Salmon . . . . . . . . . $ 14.95 Snapper . . . . . . . . . 7.95 etc. . . . It lacks many of the "fine-tuning" controls that I take for granted in PPage, but for simpler printing jobs I find myself reaching for that DOS PC . . . I'd recommend that you pick up a copy and see ways of making 80% of the most common DTP operations one-step instead of multi- step. -Roger
#93706From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportMar 31, 1993 10:34 AM
. . . . These are called dot leaders, and are an extremely high priority item. People have been asking for them since 1986. MicroSoft Publisher: this is an example of a program which simplifies basic tasks by hiding the way things work from the user. Intellidraw is the best example of this type of program. They use tools which make no sense to the programmer, but which make more sense to the user. These programs are excellent for novices, but are limited for power users. Right now, we're concentrating on making PageStream a full- featured program like Quark XPress. XPress is our target, not MicroSoft Publisher. Maybe someday when we are large enough to write two versions, we can do a low-end program as well. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#93809From: Christopher TolmieApr 1, 1993 6:56 AM
Michael, "…we're concentrating on making PageStream a full- featured program like Quark…" Bravo! Do this and you will have my undying devotion. RE: Dot leader the dot leader is a direct function of the TAB feature in Quark, you can use any character you choose, not just the dot. Gimme! Chris
#94360From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportApr 6, 1993 10:20 AM
Drop by the Soft-Logik amigaven area sometime tomorrow to get full news on PageStream 3.0 with arexx, dot leaders and everything else you have asked for. Michael – Soft-Logik Publishing
#94389From: Christopher TolmieApr 6, 1993 1:09 PM
Sounds good, will do, I'll stop over tomorrow. Thanks for the info, Chris
#93999From: Nancy DevittApr 3, 1993 2:02 AM
This message is also to Roger Hand, and a few others interested in PC-based desktop publishing. A few weeks ago, I bought MICROSOFT PUBLISHER, mainly because "Windows User" ranked it first among ALL available desktop publishing programs available for the PC. This is a joke. MSP is more like a super-smooth PRINTSHOP. Granted – it does allow you to produce a VERY limited number of good-looking projects in a flash. It utilizes Page Wizards – exactly like PPage Page Genies – as well as templates. The company also markets a template package, which I bought. A SUPER collection of clip art is included. But – the program is extremely unstable (and this is not a factor of memory); many of the templates contain text which cannot be edited without the formatting breaking up, and revising the templates and the genies is a pain. Today, I had quite a long conversation with one of the developers of Quark, and he was amazed to learn that I did most of my publishing on the Amiga. He was more than amazed when I told him about the feature I find most valuable – the virtual page. I've used this feature for a long time – formerly with the assistance of a public domain utility. The essence of this concept is that, by defining the appropriate screen size in Preferences, I can create screens for PageStream or Professional Page large enough to utilize a single- or double-page spread in its entirely. My 16-inch monitor is merely a generous-sized window onto this screen, and, using another handy utility (Pop-up-Menu), I can zip around at top speed – composing and filling with nary an unnecessary screen refresh. I can put a page together at least twice as fast as any of my PC-owning friends, including my son, who publishes a magazine (Earth News) out of LA using PageMaker. It has long been beyond me as to why C= hasn't capitalized on the Amiga as a DTP machine, and why both Gold Disk and PageStream sort of hang their heads apologetically at the mention of Big Q. One of the features the fellow at Quark pointed out to me so proudly was their use of diagonal text boxes! Now, I was nicely polite. This was, after all, a cordial conversation and I WAS ordering a demo copy of his program. I LOVE to see PP and PStr developing, and I particularly love to see more and more import modules – because it means less work for me converting text and graphics. If there were decent word processors available for the Amiga, and, if some enterprising fellow (Ben, are you lurking) developed a HI-JAAK-type program for the Amiga, I think a lot more people would consider the Amiga for DTP. This latter shouldn't be too difficult – most of the necessary code is floating around here and there in the public domain. As for word processors, developers just have to get their heads out of the sand. I fully expect here to get the usual flurry of blasts defending Amiga word processors. The truth is, that all available programs, except for Amiga WP, are lightweight – not even up to academic thesis preparation. Fonts and clip art do not a word processor make. As for Amiga magazines – we need more DTP coverage. The current series in "Amazing" is an embarrassment: how to make an ugly business card containing misspelled words, using PageStream, in about triple the steps such a process would normally take – completely ignoring all PageStream's and "Radical Type's" resources in that area. But then, there's always Radical Type – an outstanding resource. (A good thing, because it's the ONLY resource.) Sorry for the ranting and raving. It's Friday – and there just may be a full moon outside…..Nancy
#94007From: Karl F. KugelApr 3, 1993 4:48 AM
Um, just butting in- What sort of features ( I know, other than tables ), do you need in an Amiga word processor to do a thesis that aren't there already? Footnotes, table of contents generation, columns, headers and footers- all are in the current crop of Amiga word processors. Is there something else in WP that you use? // -Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
#94186From: Nancy DevittApr 5, 1993 12:05 AM
Don't forget index generation and end notes. Only Amiga WP and excellence! have these features. I did not count excellence! because: a) I think the company is out of business; 2) if you don't have a PostScript printer, your output will be in bit mapped fonts; 3) excellence! files really do not translate well to any other medium. Amiga WP will, at least, recognize an HP printer's built-in fonts.
#94209From: Karl F. KugelApr 5, 1993 5:42 AM
Well, I was counting excellence! also, and as far as I know, they are very much in business, as I just talked to them last week. My copy of excellence! 3.0 has no problem using the default font of my IIp printer, which is about as much as WP was really up to anyway. A fat lot of good having built-in proportional fonts ever did me with WP, since the 4.1 version doesn't support them. // -Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
#94662From: Nancy DevittApr 8, 1993 2:45 PM
Actually, it does. If you'll check out the available printers, you'll find that with a printer change, you'll be able to support your HP's internal fonts…..Nancy
#94877From: Karl F. KugelApr 10, 1993 12:34 AM
Maybe on your copy- but on *mine* while you can *select* a proportional printer driver, you can't see what it will look like or properly format the page. And as for "preview", I've never been able to use it without the program hanging. I admit that WP is about the most powerful fixed-width-font text-only program around, but the limitations finally became too maddening to live with. Especially since excellence! 3.0 does the things I need anyway. Exclaimation points aren't THAT hard to type, are they? <g> // -Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
#94041From: Betty Clay/SYSOPApr 3, 1993 11:34 AM
I would especially agree with you about the word processors. I still use WordPerfect on the Amiga (and WP5.1 on my Toshiba, mostly for compatibility) because it is the only one with the heavy-duty features I need. A word processor without good footnote-endnote handling, table of contents, and index is of little use if you need to do more than a few letters and such. —Betty
#94187From: Nancy DevittApr 5, 1993 12:05 AM
Thanks for that response, Betty. I really appreciate it. (The last time I said something "slightly" critical about Amiga word processors [on the vendor forum] I got accused of besmirching someone's religion.) I'm writing a non-fiction book, at the moment, and would prefer to do it on the Amiga – mainly because I can do all sorts of other things at the same time. But I'm doing it on the Bridgeboard in WP 5.2 for all those reasons I mentioned. Darn! Wouldn't it be nice if WP Corp would suddenly go Amiga crazy?…..Nancy
#94253From: Betty Clay/SYSOPApr 5, 1993 3:33 PM
If Commodore would sell a few million more Amigas, I suspect they would update WordPerfect for us, but until then, I doubt we will get a decent word processor for serious writers. I do understand, though. The bulk of the Amiga market is not populated with serious writers with needs for the things WP5.1 or 5.2 can do.
#94282From: Paul IdolApr 5, 1993 8:28 PM
What's funny about that is that WPCorp just offered registered WP for Amiga owners (including me, though I never use the thing) the chance to UPGRADE – can you believe it? UPGRADE? – to WP for DOS. DOS! What's worse, they apparently have a super-duper-deluxe version of WP, system 2 compatible, taking advantage of all the new OS goodies, fully multitasking, fast, nice, etc. in late beta and killed the project because of poor WP sales in the past and because the installed base of Amigas powerful enough to run it was too small. WPCorp could have helped launch the Amiga to a much bigger platform than it's on now if they's started out with a version of WP that was better than the half-***ed port of 4.2 they gave us. Imagine this – a power up to a 1200 or a 4000/030 priced reasonably including a 32-bit Word Perfect, like they're including Final Copy 1.3 (1.3?) now.
#94320From: Mark D. ManesApr 6, 1993 12:21 AM
Don't you believe the &#&$ at WordPerfect for a minute! What they did was stir up the beta testers (a good friend of mine was a WP tester) so that we Amiga users would get excited about a port of v5.1. Then they approached Commodore and asked them for 4-5 million dollars. Tis what Jim Dionne told me, and I would believe him over any one at WordPerfect, especially the guy from Q&A at WP who posted that trash a year or so ago. Am I mad? Yes, WordPerfect lied from day one.
#94403From: Paul IdolApr 6, 1993 5:54 PM
I guess that's typical. I just wish there was a good word processor out there for the Amiga. Don't get me wrong, ProWrite is OK, and I'm sure excellence! and Final Copy are fine too, but there are so many things Word Perfect does that I can't do. WPCorp is generally sleazy anyway – they've pulled the same number on OS/2, except I think that they're finally going to release a real product, beyond the dopey port they've had out for a while. It's just frustrating to see a company like that that could have done so much for the Amiga. Doomed to bloody fingernails, Paul
#94666From: Nancy DevittApr 8, 1993 2:46 PM
Why not snap up one of those $200 386/25 Bridgeboards they're talking about on the Bridgeboard forum and open up a whole new world. I paid $500 for mine, but don't regret a penny of it. (Of course, you'll need VGA, another hard drive, etc. But they're great! …..Nancy
#94336From: Betty Clay/SYSOPApr 6, 1993 1:47 AM
I agree. Sure wish they had released that new version. —Betty
#94665From: Nancy DevittApr 8, 1993 2:46 PM
Ahem! I upgraded from Amiga WP to Amiga 5.2 for Windows! (For $100 Canadian.) And…got Grammatik and Adobe Type Manager for free. Then, using my front cover, I also updated to Microsoft Word for Windows (For another $100 Canadian.) Then, for $89 for a nifty Oregon outfit called Surplus Software, I got AmiPro. This total is less than I paid for my first copy of Amiga WordPerfect! All nice programs. WP, if you'll remember, and AmiPro have FREE 800-number tech support. Eventually, I think I'll probably give Word the boot. Typical C= They probably picked up all those superceded copies of FC from Woody Williams' dumpster and thought they'd make a big splash. Ho hum. Rats, indeed…..Nancy
#94353From: Pete MilesApr 6, 1993 8:52 AM
Betty, I've been reading the underlying tone of your message for several years i.e WPerfect is great pity the Amiga processors can't keep up…or words to that effect. Just what is it about WPerfect that is so wonderful? Over here we reckon for sheer out and out power and versatility Protext can't be beaten. So what is it about Wordperfect? Pete
#94367From: Betty Clay/SYSOPApr 6, 1993 11:59 AM
WordPerfect is a standard word processor that is available for many different platforms. With it, it is easy to transfer work from the computers at work to those at home and back again – which is important for many who must bring work home from the office. When the Amiga version became so old that it was no longer compatible with the new versions, this ability was lost – at least to a large extent. WordPerfect is also quite powerful, on other platforms. It is the only 'transportable' word processor we have had that would do such things as indexes, easy column handling, endnotes or footnotes and that sort of thing easily. It is so widely used that there are many pre-made style sheets and macros available for it. ProText, to the best of my knowledge, is not available here at all, and is certainly not in wide use in offices. Is ProText also used on other platforms – computers likely to be found at work? Does it do the endnotes and footnotes, the tables of contents, several kinds of columns, and easy indexing? Does it have macros and style sheets? I'm pretty sure that offices over here would not be using ProText, else we would have heard more about it. We have quite a few word processors here that are excellent for what they do – mixing text with graphics, providing good printer output, allowing use of several fonts, and a few of them have a thesaurus and/or spell checker. Some offer one or another of the facilities above, but not all of them. And NONE of the others are likely to be found on the other platforms that people find at work, so they cannot bring work home to finish and then take it back to work and just stick in the disk and go the next day. For my own use, I don't have to have compatibility any more, but I do want the abilities that WordPerfect has. Many people need the actual compatibility. When the Amiga has none of the software used in offices available, it cuts down on its credibility as a machine capable of being used for 'real work.' —Betty
#94565From: Christopher TolmieApr 7, 1993 9:03 PM
Michtron Inc Protext dealer 3201 Drummond Plaza Newark DE 19711 302 454 7946 fax 302 454 1403 Chris
#94601From: Betty Clay/SYSOPApr 7, 1993 11:58 PM
I remember Michtron – HiSOFT BASIC and some other things. But I didn't know they had ProText. It has not made much of a splash over here, but I know it is very popular in England. —Betty
#94226From: Ron LegroApr 5, 1993 10:42 AM
Um, my copy of Excellence! 3.0 handles all that stuff (indexing, footnotes, table of contents generation) and then some. I'm a pro writer and it offers most of what I need, including a thesaurus/dictionary and grammar checker and style sheets. If it could format scripts in dual non-snaking columsn (a la ProWrite) it would be perfect as a writing tool. Lousy output unless you import to ProPage or run out your files in E!'s Postscript mode, though.
#94265From: Betty Clay/SYSOPApr 5, 1993 6:19 PM
I haven't tried the latest Excellence, and I do read that it is a vast improvement over earlier versions. However, I don't have a Postscript printer. I have ProPage, of course, but sometimes I like to print straight from the word processor. —Betty
#94401From: Ron LegroApr 6, 1993 5:11 PM
If excellence! had Final Copy quality dot matrix output, it'd be the ONE must-have WP for the Amiga. As it is, it does offer a NLQ print mode which lets you choose the built-in fonts in your printer — in my case, better output than I tend to get with bitmap fonts, since I don't have Postscript. Microsoft Word 5.5 on MS-DOS machines does the same thing, to good effect.
#94411From: Paul IdolApr 6, 1993 6:28 PM
So excellence! can use any built-in and cartridge fonts of an HP LaserJet II? What about CGFonts? I know it's supposed to have the most capabilities of Amiga word processors. Is it a good product? All I've heard is "SLOW". Paul
#94515From: Michael GerardApr 7, 1993 9:58 AM
excellence! is no longer slow… anymore than PgS is still 'buggy' (if you're familiar with how PgS went from 1.x to 1.8 you'll understand). While e! still lacks a few of the rarely used but impressive features of an AMI-PRO or WORD F/WIN, it is an incredibly feature laden, good looking program. It's fatal fla, IMO, is poor non-postscript output. I still can't believe that after all this time, that has not been corrected.
#94527From: Paul IdolApr 7, 1993 12:55 PM
But does it do printer fonts and CGFonts? If it does I bet I'd buy it. Thanks, Paul
#94691From: Ron LegroApr 8, 1993 7:45 PM
Excellence! has been speedy since v. 2.0 and especially since 3.0. I type up to 90 wpm and I can't outrun v. 3.0. It's a good product. It's AREXX facilities are very nice. It supports CG Fonts on screen, but outputs them to the printer as bitmaps, so the quality isn't always there. Excellence! will access up to 11 internal printer fonts using appropriate FON# codes. E.g., internal font "3" is Courier on the HP Laserjet printer driver. Since these work through the printer preferences driver, not directly with the printer, they can be modified. You won't necessarily get WYSIWIG display, however. What's really nice is that using this NLQ mode, you can do "mixed-mode" printing: Graphics in your document are printed out as bitmaps, while the printer's internal fonts are chosen for text in the *same* document. It can speed up print output tremendously while maintaining quality. Excellence! includes an improved HP Deskjet driver, too.
#94789From: Paul IdolApr 9, 1993 11:25 AM
Thanks! I'll prob'ly pick up a copy. Maybe they'll come out with a new version that will fix some of the problems – 3.0's been out a while. -Paul
#94514From: Michael GerardApr 7, 1993 9:57 AM
"If excellence! had Final Copy quality dot matrix output, it'd be the ONE must-have WP for the Amiga." I agree!
#94522From: Betty Clay/SYSOPApr 7, 1993 11:45 AM
I may need to take a new look at Excellence!. Gee, I hate programs that have exclamation points in their names. —Betty
#94737From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiApr 9, 1993 12:27 AM
Not only an exclamation point in its name, but it starts with a lower-case "e" as well! Denny Atkin COMPUTE (formerly COMPUTE!)
#94816From: Ron LegroApr 9, 1993 3:45 PM
My word! It's…Denny! Atkin!
#94667From: Nancy DevittApr 8, 1993 2:46 PM
Hi, Ron… I don't know about you, but I like to send my manuscripts in looking, not good, but GREAT!…..Nancy
#94637From: Laurie CarrollApr 8, 1993 6:51 AM
Betty and Nancy, I think you both are showing in the comments on word processors, that there is a "low end" "high end" choice to be made. Personally I dont wouldnt pay for all the high end features of a word processor like WP. There is just so much there that I woudnt use. Just my 10c worth. Laurie Carroll AKL NZ Longdistance Autopilot
#94653From: Betty Clay/SYSOPApr 8, 1993 1:13 PM
You are right, Laurie. And most developers seem to feel that there aren't many Amiga users who would. *I* don't use graphics much in a word processor. I use ProPage for that. But the developers have all stressed the addition of graphics to text over the powerful features that I find necessary. —Betty
#94686From: Paul IdolApr 8, 1993 5:53 PM
The problem is that every time a word processor company releases a "junior" version of their product, it bombs. -Paul
#94076From: Pete MilesApr 3, 1993 6:37 PM
Nancy, We have a subscriber only magazine over here called JAM – or Just Amiga Montly for short <g> The Editor and publisher is Jeff Walker, a friend of mine. Jeff has been editing Amiga magazines for some years and is quite an expert on DTP with PPage. He along with another aquaintance Larry Hickmot have done various articles and a series on dtp explaining all sorts of cacets of how to do this that and the other. dtp is a very big over here and of course the respective followers of PPage and PStream are always sloging it out. Why not drop a line to Jeff or phone him and see if you could get hold of the latest magazines which carry dtp articles. I'm sure you would find them of interest. JAM 75, GREATFILEDS DRIVE UXBRIDGE MIDDX UB8 3QN 0895 – 274449 PETE
#94188From: Nancy DevittApr 5, 1993 12:06 AM
Thanks for the response. I've "kept" the message and will write to Jeff. I'd love to subscribe to another Amiga mag – particularly a worthwhile one. You might give him Radical Type's address – P.O.Box 20135, St. Louis, MO 63123-0335, USA. It comes out sort of spasmodically, but it's a very good magazine – now PageStream-only, but with excellent tutorials and reviews. (The PageStream-only is because it's published by Michael Loader who now works for Soft-Logik and who wrote the PageStream and Art Expression manuals.)
#94374From: Wolf FaustApr 6, 1993 12:23 PM
Yes, I totaly agree with Pete Miles. Jeff Walkers JAM (Just Amiga Monthly) magazine had some really heavy Amiga series about using PPage/PageStream. I'm not a real DTP guy, but I do regulary work with DTP programs and you can find lot's of real good tips you can't find in the PPage manual. I read most non-game Amiga (and some PC/Mac/DTP) magazines and I found the DTP series in JAM contained the best articles I have seen since a long time. Though, getting the articles is a bit hard, because you have to order several old magazines to get the whole series. Maybe Jeff should think about a special "DTP" issue with all the old DTP articles…
#93814From: Pete MilesApr 1, 1993 8:26 AM
Michael, To my eyes the rendition of fonts on screen looks better from PPage than does my friends version of Pagestream. So perhaps this could be a small consideration. BTW, if you mangae to get Pstream to be like Quark then count me as a convert. Pete