#CDTV, CD-I etc.
60 messages in this thread
John:
You and I had very similar weekends:-) I went down and took a close look at
CD-I also. I too was VERY impressed with the remote control, easily
operated with one hand so us real couch potatoes will have no trouble
munching while playing with CD-I. In addition to the discs you mentioned I
also played with a Sesame Street disc. I was not too impressed with the
animated graphics, the resolution looked very low, but I was very impressed
with the interactive nature of the disc. As you moved the cursor around the
screen sensitive areas were highlighted so that you could select them,
click on Ernie to play a game with him, or Bert etc. Lots of fun.
All of this CDTV could handle too of course. The one thing CD-I seemed
lacking was a communications port. You can easily hook CDTV up to your
Amiga and use it as a CDROM drive, this doesn't seem possible with CD-I.
Overall though a very impressive machine.
I still can't get over how much attention this machine is getting. I must
have hung around over an hour on saturday and there was always a crowd
around the booth. Went in again today, same story. However I never actually
saw anyone walk out with one.
-=Martin=-
– via Whap!
I never saw anyone walk out with one either, but that doesn't mean much to
me (yet) 🙂 The key is that average people (not amigaoids, who make up
much of CDTV's audience) are looking at it, they talk to others, eventually
a few purchase, etc…. that's the way the thing makes its way into homes.
This time next year there will be Sony CD-I players, and others too. There
will be hundreds of discs available (I predict). Each machine will play
all the discs, cause they agreed on a standard up front. To the consumer
it will be like choosing a CD player; any will do, just pick
price/features. (I'd bet that you will soon see competing CD-I players
with multi-disc play, CD/LC combos, etc…. feature competition, just like
regular CD players)
The Phillips has two I/O ports, which can apparently be used with mouse,
keypad, trackball, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they also couldn't be
used for MIDI/printer/etc input/output too, in the future. Re using as a
CD-ROM for a computer, they seem to have precisely AVOIDED that, and I'm
not sure they're not correct. This thing is designed to go on top of the
VCR, not on a computer desk. I can't see them competing with $400 CD-ROM
drives in the IBM world, for instance?
BTW, how do you 'easily' hook up CDTV to your amiga and use it as a CD-ROM
drive? I've always thought that must be possible, but haven't heard of
anyone actually doing it??? (I know you can hook up a keyboard to the
CDTV, but that't not the same thing…)
You can do it by using PARNET p/d software.
BEN:Leigh's Computer's
Don't be so sure about those hundreds of titles. I heard it costs a
developer $40,000 in equipment to produce titles on CD-I. All you need for
CDTV is an Amiga or an available Amiga software title that can be ported.
Don't you think that software writers would rather port products to the
millions of Amigas & CDTV rather than a limited product like CD-I.
I'm skeptical of the chances for CDTV & doubt that Commodore can
pull it off but from the standpoint of an Amiga owner I'm hoping Commodore
is the winner. I argue with the snobbish self-serving developers on this
board who won't bring themselves to produce for this "inferior" product
(CDTVM). I believe there is great potential for consumer oriented & useful
products on CDTV. Check out the Time Table series from Xiphias. It's neat
to see Armstrong walking on the moon on my Amiga 3000.
Don,
The millions of Amiga owners don't count…they don't have CDROM
drives so couldn't use a CDTV disk even if they wanted to. Yes, there's a
few who do have the drives…but relatively speaking…very few.
As to $40,000 for the equipment…that's not a big deal either.
Consider the cost of a large project on any machine and you're near
$100,000 anyway. And that $40,000 piece of hardware can be used for more
than one project thus spreading the costs over multiple projects.
Don,
The millions of Amiga owners count to the extent that much of the
CDTV & CD-I software is games. Many of these can be developed for use on
both CDTV & the Amiga. In fact, many of the CDTV programs are games & the
most talked about CD-I product is a golf game. Products now being or
already developed for both Amiga & CDTV include: Lemmings, Sim City, Game
collections, Wayne Gretsky hockey, Dungeon Master, Distant Suns, etc. etc.
It is much easier for developers to port an Amiga game to CDTV than develop
one from scratch for CD-I.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
And considering CD-I anly has CD audio I guess sound F/x for games are
gonna be slow or non existant with music in the background.
BEN:Leigh's Computer's
I'm not quite sure what you mean–CD-I has several audio formats, of
different fidelity. Do you mean that some other way to generate sound is
necessary to cause produce death ray noises, explosions, and the like?
That's not obvious to me, though I lack sufficient knowledge to say
definitely one way or the other.
All of it's audio formats come off of the CD not from an independent sound
generator, that's what I mean. You can't have a sound effect while playing
music unless it's part of the sound track, not a random event.
BEN:Leigh's Computer's
Ben, aside from the other answers you've received (re different fidelities
of CD-I sound), remember that other computers have been doing sound effects
without dedicated sound generators for a long time.
You don't need an independent sound generator for sound effects and for
soundtracks, but it sure makes it easier. I'd guess that CDTV discs may
well beat the heck out of sound on CD-I, you're right.
But the question of technical excellence of each machine is really not
going to be the deciding factor, I don't think. There was another double
full-page ad in today's paper for CD-I. Maybe CMB can ride the coattails,
but it'll be a wild ride!
–jp–seattle–
Your right marketing or lack of it will decide BOTH CD-I's and CDTV's fate.
(Bleak huh?)
BEN:Leigh's Computer's
Uh, not quite right, Ben 🙂 CD-I audio doesn't have to come only from
disc.
Both systems can playback a CD stereo track from disc. But that takes the
full CD bandwidth. While a CD track is playing, no data loading can be
done (on either system). So…
CDTV can:
1. play a 44Khz 16-bit CD stereo track, or
2. DMA 28Khz 8-bit stereo from memory, or
3. DMA 28Khz 8-bit stereo from memory while loading more data/audio.
CD-I was designed from the start for CD, and can (partial list):
1. play a 44Khz 16-bit CD stereo track, or
2. DMA 38Khz 16-bit "CD" stereo from memory, or
3. DMA 38Khz 16-bit "CD" stereo from memory while loading more
data/audio,
4. play 38Khz 16-bit "CD" stereo from disc while loading more data/audio,
5. mix/pan a combo of 2 and 4.
So at the least, a CD-I game could play "CD" (so close you can't tell)
16-bit stereo sound effects in realtime from memory. best – kevin
CDTV CAN play CD sound WITH 8 bit audio I've already done this. I may be
wrong on CD-I but from what i've read and saw (and was told by Philips rep
last year) it couldn't play streo sound from memory and CD simultaniously
(the Philip guy told me it was all CD based (but he could have been
wrong)).
BEN:Leigh's Computer's 1
Thanks for mentioning that CDTV can play 8-bit audio while the disc plays a
CD audio track. I've never been sure about that. As noted, it wasn't
meant to be an exhaustive list, but mostly to say that I know you can load
compressed CD audio into memory and play it back, on a CD-I unit.
The advantage CDTV has, is that it's much easier to create new sounds in
memory… so using the Amiga's voice synthesizer, for example, is possible.
Something similar would undoubtedly be more difficult on CD-I machines…
so they probably wouldn't do it. They'd preload compressed human samples
instead, which is more in line with the concept of emulating "TV".
cheers – kevin
Psygnosis says they can do that on CDTV as well and most of the CDTV titles
use human speech as well, but unless C= does some serious ADS it won't
matter.
BEN:Leigh's Computer's
Ben,
I don't think that CD-I only has CD audio but you may be right. I'm
really not that interested in CD-I except as competition for CDTV. You can
only get 70 minutes of full fidelity CD sound on a disk so that would
greatly hamper its usefulness vs. CDTV. Just ask Jerry from Xiphias about
his preference for CDTV over IBM CD-Roms because of the sound limitation on
IBM computers. You have to trade off visual effects vs. sound effects in
the competition for disk space.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Don,
I'm sorry…but a $1,000 game machine is a bit much for most
people. While games may be used on CDTV, anyone that bought one to simply
play games is going to be in a very small minority.
Also, consider that a game that comes on an 880K disk (or even two
of them) is gonna waste 99% of the real estate on a CD. Thus to offer
folks "value", games for CDTV will more than likely have more
features/pictures/sound, etc. than could reasonably be put on floppies.
Thus, while the basic game would be similar, overall…someone is going to
feel cheated. Especially if CDTV CD's go in the $50 price range … which
is the same price range for disk based games.
While there will certainly be exceptions to the above, I strongly
suspect that the most popular applications will be encyclopedia type apps,
interactive games with LOTS of graphic scenes and 'do it yourself' type
applications.
None of which would easily port to a floppy based application.
Don
Don,
$1000 IS much too much for a game or entertainment machine which is
why the price has now dropped below $700 for both CDTV & CD-I. In fact, I
doubt that sales will take off for either one until the price drops to the
$300 – $400 range. Is that still too much for a game machine? Super
Ninento sells for $200.
I have a CD-Rom drive attached to my 3000 so I'm familiar with the
price of software. Actually the price is comparable to the price of
computer games, $30-$50. I picked up the Time Table of Science, a great
product, for $40, IMHO a bargain.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Don,
Yes…$700 is too much. $300 isn't too bad though, especially if
the applications take full advantage of the amount of video/audio that can
be put on a CD.
Yes, competition will bring the prices down…but I seriously doubt
that prices will drop to the $300 – $400 range for a year or so.
Don
I get excited about these machines when I think in the 5 to 10 year range.
Perhaps they'll both be dead and we'll have something else quite amazing.
Yes. I look forward to some kind of home virtual-reality device. Of
course, if people thought just TV was bad for family life, then…. 🙂
Yeah, in 5 years the IBM/Apple/Sony box will be out, along with something
competive from the MPC type people. The SECOND (or 3rd, etc) generation
will be the successful one. I hope I'll still be in business!
Kevin: as for VR system, I think you'll see them about that time too.
Of course the Mandalla system will be out for the CDTV box <real soon now>
Thats a cheap (<$300) video capture/effects gizmo that puts you on the
screen to interact with graphics, etc. Its kind of fun to play with,
especially nice to choose menu items by reaching in space!
Jerry.
Jerry – yes, the home Mandala system is just the kind of thing that could
give CDTV a needed identity. Commodore should take what the Amiga is good
at (video titling/etc) and use those strengths to carve out a market for
CDTV… instead of going head on with CD-I as a player. best – kev
Donald:
Which CD-ROM drive do you have? What're you using to read from it? Did you
just plug it into your SCSI port on the back of your 3000?
Roger
Roger,
I bought the software/hardware package from Xetec (913) 827-0685.
Includes Chinon CD-Rom drive & cable which hooks to the external SCSI port
on the 3000, "Fish & More" which includes over 400 Fish PD volumes & a
"more" section which is actually twice as large as the Fish section. The
included software installs on your hard drive & allows operation of the
drive on the Amiga. Also included are programs to allow the use of CDTV
disks & some CDTV features on your Amiga. In addition there is a neat
audio CD program which brings up a picture of a CD deck & operates similar
to a standard CD deck. CD+G is not supported nor will likely be the
upcoming full motion video which is to be implemented on CDTV.
I also purchased for an additional $50.00 a Mac package from Xetec
which included software drivers which I installed on my Amax drive to allow
use of Mac disks on my Amiga. A cable was also included in case I wanted
to hook the drive to a "real" Mac.
Be aware that CBM is supposed to bring out a CD-Rom drive for the
3000 which will supposedly be fully CDTV compatible. The Xetec drive may
not support full motion video when it becomes implemented.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Don,
About how much did the Xetec package you described cost?
– Keith
Keith,
I was afraid someone would ask about price. Let me say before I
start that CD-Rom drives have come down in price so the same package can be
had for much cheaper. I ordered direct from Xetec after visiting two
dealers & calling three more. I prefer to give dealers the business when I
can & dislike ordering hardware by mailorder. I have since discovered that
Xetec will sell their software for $100 if you purchase your own Chinon
drive. I do not know if this includes the "Fish & More" CD.
My cost was:
$699.00 Drive, Software, CD
50.00 Mac software & cable
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Don: You and I might feel cheated if a 2-meg game is all that comes on the
CDTV disc version, but the average consumer wouldn't. After all, the price
will be about the same as a floppy disk version. The unused storage
capacity on CD would be lost on most people, at least until games using
much more the disc started showing up for around the same price. >> Ron
Legro / Milwaukee
via WHAP!
Ron,
While that may be (and I don't necessairly agree with you), the
point isn't whether the user knows that much of disk is wasted…it's that
the consumer will see his $1000 machine doing nothing more that his
neighbor's $400 A500.
Don
Yes, it's easier to slap an Amiga game on CDTV, than it is to develop a
game for CD-I. However, it's no harder to develop a new game on either 🙂
Another difference is in what goes into the game. That golf game on CD-I
probably takes up much of the 650meg disc… because it has photographic
scenes along all the holes on several (I think) major golf courses. In
addition to its CD stereo tracks.
I've never heard of a comparable 800-diskette Amiga game 🙂
Normal games on CDROM don't give anything new. Heck, you can play them on
your PC/Mac/Amiga or Nintendo/Sega at home, so why buy a $600-800 player?
But a game produced just for CD is a horse of a different color. They can
be more like a major TV production.
kevin
Kevin,
I happen to be one of the biggest critics of the mere ports of
current titles to CDTV from the Amiga. I believe Lemmings doesn't even
include more levels than the disk version, just better sound. However, one
way to sell hardware is to offer big quantities of software. Quality
doesn't really matter. If you can show five racks of titles for CDTV vs.
one rack for CD-I, you'll sell more CDTV's. One way to pad the quantity of
titles is to port Amiga games & that is already happening.
Remember this is not a business machine where all you really need is
one great spreadsheet, one great database, & one great wordprocessor &
you'll sell lots of PC's. The mindless masses out there, better referred
to as lemmings, want lots of stuff to play on their new toy. Also
quantities of software gives the illusion of a successful product & this
illusion will also sell more machines.
I haven't seen the golf game for CD-I, in fact I haven't seen CD-I,
nor am I interested. The game sounds nice but it's still a game & the
makers of CD-I seem to realize that games are going to sell their machine.
I'm glad CD-I is out since the competition is bringing down the
price of CDTV which means less of a wait for me to get one for my living
room.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Don: I agree with your comments to Kevin on market necessity for racks and
racks of discs. I expect what'll happen is that as the market settles, you
would see compilations of games on one CDTV disc, much as we now see oldies
but goodies being packaged in a reduced-price deal on floppy. I am a CDTV
fan (though I don't own one, yet) but I also agree with you on Lemmings.
It's a great game, but watching the CDTV version on a large-screen TV in a
store, I found it almost impossible to discern the little Lemmings icons at
screen bottom. A little kid was able to play the game because he'd
memorized the positions from so much play on the computer disk version. >>
Ron Legro / Milwaukee
via WHAP!
Ron,
The fact that the CDTV is really not much more than an Amiga w/
CD-Rom drive I think works in its favor for two reasons:
1. Games will be easy ports from the Amiga,
2. Development costs will be less for developers.
CDTV also has some features which CD-I does not currently have including
the wonderful Amiga sound chip. Hopefully all these advantages will
outweigh the ineptness of CBM marketing & make CDTV the winner against a
formidable competitor.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Do you think games are going to sell this new appliance?
Gerard,
I'm really not a controversial guy. I'm not comfortable with all
this attention. I just don't want to count CDTV out just yet.
CDTV & CD-I are essentially entertainment devices. What entertains
kids & adults the most on this type of unit?.. GAMES!!! How many
encyclopedias & references books of this type does a household need?
Besides what is the biggest seller for that great office appliance, the
computer?…. GAMES!!!!
My reason for not counting CDTV out just yet is the bigger user base
here & in Europe when one counts the Amiga. A developer for CD-I will only
have an initial user base of thousands of machines while an Amiga/CDTV
developer has a user base in the millions. This will become even more
apparent when CBM offers its CD-Rom drive for the Amiga line. There are
already letters in the European rags asking about availability of the
drives.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Don,
Again…I make the point that unless you're developing a game that
runs on a straight Amiga…you do not have millions of users ready for
CDTV.
And simply taking a game that's available on floppy for the Amiga
and putting it on a CD for CDTV is going to disappoint lots of people.
Consider this: Person A buys game X for the Amiga. Person B buys
same game for CDTV. Person B sees the exact same game playing on A's Amiga
and feels he/she got cheated since CDTV is supposed to offer so much more
vis-a-vie the CD's capacity.
Don
Don,
Or person B is elated since he has all the great games available for
his CDTV, which he has hooked up to his TV in the living room, that person
A has for his Amiga in his computer room.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Don,
I'm sure you're right now that I think about it, although the fact
that games will be the strongest seller might not mean that the machines
should be positioned that way. Another thought I just had (I have too many
thoughts when I'm compo$ing on-line) is that just like thier senior
counterparts (pc's) CD-I/CDTV might be purchased for what they do other
than games but then games are purchased for them too. Anyway, I wish CDTV
alot of luck.
You'd be suprised at what kids can turn into a game!
We found kids loved the CDTV version of American Heritage Dictionary
because there were LOTS of cool images (fighter planes, helocopters, etc).
The slighlty older ones like the TimeTables for the pictures and the neat
exploring you can do. I'm hoping people will use Grolier's in a similar
manner.
I had a lot of fun bouncing around in it, click on a word, pick a title and
keep going! Now if we put a trivia type game on the disk that was linked
in….
<grin> Jerry
Jerry,
That's something I'd like to see, a trivial persuit type game.
There is one that just came out on regular CD but from what I hear you must
use a book. A CD-Rom version would be much more fun & easier to use.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Its not that CDTV and CD-I are entertainment devices — its just that they
are *not much more* than entertainment devices. True, they could be grown
into computers essentially, but why would you want a computer that looks
like a CD stereo component?
Actually, I think that CDTV/CD-I technology will wind up being a fad to
most of the market until R/W CDs come down in price to be a part of such a
unit. Then CD-type units will not only be able to entertain customers, but
also learn about those customers (you could file a lot of information on a
CD).
David – via Whap!
David, > …but why would you want a computer that looks like a CD stereo
component?
Hmmm… "these mainframes work just fine, why would I want a computer
that would fit on my desk (or in my breifcase or in my pocket) ?" <grin>.
While that might be a little bit of an exageration of my point, I think
that the 'face' of technology continues to change. In the not-to-distant
future, I think we'll be seeing computers integrated more and more into our
everyday life in the guise of home-entertainment centers, security systems,
home climate control, communication systems and other areas.
Personally, I don't have a problem with a CD-player that thinks it's a
computer (or visa-versa). Of course, it could be that I've just been
watching to much Star Trek lately <grin>.
– Keith
Ahhh, Keith, the decision of mainframes versus desktop workstations is a
*business* decision, not a *personal* one. It's quite the opposite with
stereo-like components…
Then, again, though, you're making my point for me. For a commodity
computer like CDTV to "integrate" with the home market (to handle climate
control, security, communications, etc.), it will need to learn about the
environment it is working in. That takes persistent memory and the more of
it, the better. Affordable CD-*RAM* will open up a lot of possibilities
for the home market, but the current CD-*ROM* systems will amount to no
more than entertainment/education systems and that will dissapate into
fad-dom. Perhaps they'll survive long enough to garner interest in
correcting that, but the economy is not in great shape right now.
David – via Whap!
I'm afraid I disagree with you… the fact that I CAN now buy/fit a
computer on my desk is what MAKES it a *personal* decision.
Again, my point is (in response to your statement/question of why anyone
would want a computer that looks like a stereo component)… why not?
Things change. I'm not making any claims about what a CDTV is or isn't
capable of, only that home appliances in general are becomming more and
more cabable, and thus more computer-like (and thus harder for joe-blow to
operate, but that's part of my point…).
Computer-weary people may likely feel quite at home operating a
high-tech VCR or CDTV, and giving the ability to expand it into a
functional computer may ease the transition to a 'real' computer, and in
some cases satisfy the person's needs (maybe they just want to use it to
keep a database of CD titles, a grocery list or appointment calender) for a
computer.
I'm guessing that (if you didn't state it already) part of your
reasoning is "why would anyone want a computer in the living room?"… some
of the examples I listed above are prime examples to repond to that
question (assuming you had asked it <grin>). If my stereo, vcr, laser-disk
player and TV are all in the living room, I don't want to have to go to the
'office' to update or reference my CD-titles database or reprogram my VCR
edit-controller.
Cheers,
– Keith
"CD-RWM" or "CD-ROM". Both are "CD_RAM". Well, actually, both are "CD-SAM"
(sequential).
Ben
let me quote from the Nov. 91 issue of Business Tokyo, an article titled
"Fated to Feud: Sony vs Matsushita": (with editing to save you Ci$)
Whats ahead for the Sony-Matsushita rivalry? The biggest battle will center
on the mulitmedia system…While US manufacturers view this …as an
extension of today's personal computers, S&M see it as a spearate consumer
business….Instead of 20 million PCs found in american homes today,
multimedia computers may enter 50M, even 100M American homes. The key to
achieving such numbers is entertainment. "If you can find an entertainment
machine that will also be useful, people will buy it"
end quote
These beamoths are getting ready to enter the market on their own (not on
CBM/Phillips coattails) and will do so when the can translate their vast
audio/visual libraries (columbia/mca/cbs records, etc) into 'software' for
the machines. ENTERTAINMENT will be the key! education will follow if it is
"educainment' (not my word, but it might fit). Recordable media might be
important but it MUST have a digital copy protection (unlike DAT, like MD
disk or DCC tape) or it will die in the courts.
Yes it might be nice to record your own multimedia entertainment/vacation
video, but I think that would be part of the overall home system with the
8mm video controled by the MMc.
– jerry
David, no doubt that a CDROM system with some ram capability (CDROMRAM, or
as Ben would put it CDSAMRAMROM 🙂 would be more desirable than the pure
CD-ROM (CDTV, CD-I) of today, but I disagree that they will 'dissapate into
fad-dom'. I see CD-I/CDTV as being essential in education, home reference,
business training, etc, even w/o any 'ram' capability. I think it is the
wave of the 90's; ram capability (if afforadable) will only drive the wave
higher.
BTW, whatever happened to the CDTV 'personal' memory card? 1meg on a data
card for slipping into a CDTV slot. I would have thought it would have
been very useful in some titles?
Just out of curiosity, I (and others) keep saying 'CD-I/CDTV'…. I wonder
if one went over to the CDI forum, multimedia forum, etc if you would even
*see* CDTV mentioned in the same breath as CD-I? Just curious….
–jp–seattle–
David,
You shouldn't belittle entertainment devices. Nintendo is getting
rich selling just that. However CD-I & CDTV are really much more than a
simple game machine. The current software will attest to that & hopefully
future releases will expand that further. Ninento I wouldn't hook up to my
living room TV, but CDTV I definitely would consider.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Oh no, I'm not trying to belittle entertainment devices. After all, just
look at this "game machine" I'm sitting behind (I didn't really mean that
… but I couldn't resist :-). In the case of CDTV, though, I just want it
to stand up and say "I'm much more than just an 'educainment' device"
(thanx Keith ;-). I think that will be what will separate it from the
other "CD" systems.
David – via Whap!
David,
Well I guess you are agreeing with my contention that software will
help make CDTV. Sure CD-I has the big guns behind it, but CDTV has the
ability to build a huge software base quickly which could give it an edge.
Hopefully that software will be quality stuff which will extend the
usefullness of the machine beyond what we now imagine, but I don't think
that matters as much as quantity of software.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
I hope that CDTV does well too Donald! There are some very nice titles
available for it, to be sure. However, will non-amiga developers continue
to support CDTV when a more popular platform is a 'standard'? I don't
know. While I like amiga publishers working on CDTV too, you must remember
that the Amiga and CDTV are two different animals. Computer developers may
not be the 'best' designers for CDTV. Needs a completely different
approach.
Re $40,000 as a CD-I development cost…. don't know if you're right or
not, but even if true, that's not much to the large publishers who will
make or break CD-I. Development cost will not be the issue, I don't think.
TTFN!
–jp–seattle–
John,
Regarding the difference in platforms between a computer & CDTV, I
agree that the really nice, different programs for CDTV should not be like
the typical Amiga product. However, face it, much of the current crop of
programs & likely many of the future products will be games & these can
usually be ported between platforms. CD-I doesn't have a compatible
computer platform to port from. I think this will retard the number of
available titles for CD-I vs. CDTV.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Don,
Title development costs can range from $30k up to easily $150k++. Don C.
is correct: the cost of equipment pales in comparison to the cost of time
spent programming and collecting/editing data. Which is also why you'll
often see the same data on discs meant for different computers or even for
various discs from the same company for the same computer.
It seems unfair to call people "snobs" if they don't immediately begin
development for CDTV. Are you developing anything for it?
Just an Amiga? You also probably need good audio and video digitizers,
artists, programmers… and you'll absolutely need lots of time and money.
(Obvious exception: simply transferring a current Amiga game to disc.)
Interesting that you mentioned a Xiphias title, btw… you're right that
those are good examples of useful CDTV products. Yet I'm fairly sure they
were mostly developed on Macs/PCs (Jerry?). best – kevin
John:
The more I think about it the more I agree with you that computer access is
probably not required or even desired for a unit like CD-I. The idea
appealed to me but then I realized a long time ago that I don't fit the
definition of the average consumer:-)
BTW: Can't believe I forgot to mention one great advantage CD-I has over
CDTV, No caddies!!
-=Martin=-
– via Whap!
Yeah! NO CADDIES! I hadn't mentioned that, and it is great! CD-I has NO
CADDIES!
But most of all is the simple remote, I think. Only a thumbstick and a
nicely arranged buttons. (pause, stop, play <– and –>, tv/vcr, and
volume up/down) Neat. Simple. I like that. (and my wife loves it. She
*hates* remotes with dozens of little buttons!)
Yeah, computer access would be a plus, for YOU and I (and for most CIS
users), but I'd venture that the vast majority of purchasers could care
less about computer access. (I bet my Dad would consider it, but if I even
breathed 'hooks up to your computer', it would likely scare him off!)
–jp–seattle–
Using PARNET and a parallel connection cable, it is easy to network a CDTV
to an AMiga. I do it all the time. It is kinda nice being able to 'dir' on
a 550 meg peripheral that can also be a standalone.
Thanks for that news! That sounds very cool. I've never used ParNet, but
sure will keep it in mind if the situation arises! (BTW, doesn't ParNet
need to be running on both machines? How do you get it 'running' on the
CDTV?)
–jp–seattle–
Geoffrey: When you use PARNET, you tie up your Amiga's parallel port, yes?
If so, how do you handle that? Plug and unplug? Switch box? Or is there a
card for the Amiga that adds parallel ports? I'm unaware of any. If not,
presumably when the CDTV is networked as an Amiga drive, you can't use your
printer. >> Ron Legro / Milwaukee
via WHAP!
Actually there is a card that adds another parallel port to the amiga
-output only (ie. useful for printers & such). Made by DigiFex. Also has
two serial ports on it (one IBM 9-pin and one Mac-type plug). So I suppose
you could direct PRT: to that output, and use the internal printer port for
the net?
–jp–seattle–
Ron,
Thanks. When I was listing the advantages of a CD-Rom drive vs.
attaching a CDTV to an Amiga this problem didn't even occur to me. My
CD-Rom drive does not use the parallel port & thus allows the use of a
printer. Now all we need are CDTV disks which utilize a printer.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!