#ILM
67 messages in this thread
It sounds like you're on the right track with your search for
information on animation. There are a number of good books around on
animation technique. You usually have to go to a BIG art supply
store to find them. My favorite is Tony Wolfe's Animation Handbook,
but I don't know if it's in print any more. There are lots of others
though.
For studies to get good at computer animation, I would recommend a
traditional animation course (where you draw and record your work)
supplemented by a few computer courses. For 3DS, for example, I'd
recommend a basic PC course, supplemented by a few other courses in
DOS, memory management, and a technical course on how to install your
own boards and hook up equipment (you'll need it!)
There are a few "pure" animation courses around, but as you mentioned,
I think there are maybe three in the US and a few sprinkled around
the world.
The animation course is essential if you ever want to get REEEAL good.
Glenn Melenhorst, one of the premier 3DS animators down here in
Australia (his stuff is all over the Siggraph tapes) started out as a
traditional animator and it really shows.
I come from a Comp Sci background and am planning to do a three-year
university course in animation here in Brisbane, Australia starting
in February. (THE animation course in Australia) I can't see any
way around it; although I know 3DS pretty well, you can only go far
with a linear approach. There are some beautifully elegant things
that Glenn seems to figure out with ease while I'm still
brute-forcing ahead with "logical" approaches, if you know what I
mean.
I did some art studies off and on but I'm really looking forward to
this course, because the whole point of it is to DRAW. And draw and
draw and draw… it will make me think more artistically. You can
only get so far by knowing every tool on the menu!
I've also started working with clay, forming 3D figures before I start
to model, which has squished my brain in all the right places. <g>
Hopefully this animation course will continue the process.
Good luck with your studies.
Michele
Hi Michele,
Thanks for the info on the book. I've been to The World's Biggest Bookstore
here in Toronto (really, it is) and they didn't have much on technique. I'll
check the art stores for the Wolfe book, though. That's for traditional
animation, right?
The basic PC, memory management, DOS and technical courses are all
stuff I've come to learn by myself. Also, those sound like courses
that you'd take at a technical school or community college rather
than a university. The courses in traditional visual art or
traditional animation may really be helpful, though. Having taken
art at school for the past few years, I've had to work with a bunch
of other media like paint and drawing. It really does help in other
areas. For example, having to mix paint to get the right colours
really gives a good understanding of colour theory, which can
translate to what colours your objects should be, or what colours
your lights should be.
I know that Sheridan College just outside Toronto has an extremely
good animation program. They have programs for both traditional and
computer animation and both are regarded worldwide as among the best
courses available.
Did you have any art training prior to getting your comp sci degree?
It'd be interesting to know if a completely non-art person could be
made into an artistic person by making them draw and draw and draw.
From what I've heard, either you have it or you don't. Creativity
isn't something that can be taught.
Aaron
Well … If "you either have it or you don't" with art, then why do
people go to art school?! <g> True, every person has a particular
degree of aptitude for every area, be it art or maths or whatever,
but you have to agree that anyone that has *some* artistic ability
can develop it further with art classes.
If you do something a lot, you get better at it. I can't necessarily
draw a perfect picture the first time but if I plug away at it, it
eventually looks good. With things I have drawn a number of times
(for example, I drew my cat about 1000 times when I was young) I can
draw them well in minutes. Ask me to draw a clown (or a camshaft,
for that matter) and I'll struggle for hours. I think anyone who
tries at it long and hard enough can succeed, same as with computers.
Another example is an aboriginal painting I once had to scan in and
clean up to be used a texture map. In comparing the scan to the
original and retouching it, I learned a LOT about aboriginal art.
It's one thing to look at something and another to be involved in its
creation. You really only learn by doing.
Especially with classes in animation, where you (a) learn the concepts of
motion, weight, follow-through, overlapping motion, etc., then (b) are given
exercises to do to show the concept then (c) do the drawings and record them,
and see the concept working for yourself. It seems like an ideal way to learn.
I agree that any art-related studies will help you with 3D animation. Colour is
a good example as it is hard to master and very important.
As for my art training to date, it's been a hodge-podge of varied art
classes (mostly in my high school days), reading and
experimentation. For example I once took the all-night bus from
Paris to London and spent the entire 12-hour trip sketching the
people around me who were all snoring away in weird positions. Then
I didn't pick up the pencil again for about 3 months. It's kind of
been like that. Hopefully with assignments and teachers hanging over
me I will be made to draw more often and thus advance faster than I
have been.
And don't you tell me that someone with a Comp Sci degree can't draw! <g>
Seriously, I have yet to meet a person who is completely non-artistic.
Everybody has their area. I once had a roommate who couldn't draw for beans
but used to prepare the most beautiful artistically composed meals you ever
saw. All the vegetables were arranged just so. <g>
Michele
Hi Michele,
Wow, you have quite a varied artistic background, fom what you've told
me. I never quite said that computer science people can't draw, but
I was just wondering about the feasibility of "teaching creativity".
I remember a few years ago when I first visited an animation firm
here in Toronto, and they said that "It's MUCH easier to teach an
artist to use a computer than to teach a computer scientist to be an
artist". I saw the logic behind that statement immediately, and
pretty much believed it.
It's true that the only way to really learn is by actually doing it,
but you can get a lot from just studying and reading as well. My art
class now is 50% studio, where you actually DO stuff, and 50%
history, where you learn art history. The history part is just as
effective at teaching as the studio part. This is where you learn
everything. The studio is where you try it out for yourself. Not
even the most talented person can just paint a painting with no
knowledge of colour or balance. That's part of what you learn in the
history. In film theory, you learn all about different angles and
shots. This saves you the time of having to develop the technique
yourself. For example, if you want a shot to make a guy look big and
scary, shoot him from underneath. You can learn that by watching
films and talking about it, rather than experimenting with camera
angles while you're shooting. Another example: you could never
expect someone with raw talent to just "figure out" linear perspective
while doodling one day. If you study rennaissance art, you can learn
that sort of thing, though.
I think that the key to keeping your stuff fresh is to do it constantly. Never
stop drawing, look at the world through a camera lens. I think that keeps you
on your toes for the most part.
Aaron
When I am able to quit my job and animate full time, I think I will
have time to take art classes. Is it possible to get anywhere in art
school without having to learn the techie aspects of non-computer
tools (e.g., how to shade with a pencil or how to mix paint on a
palette?). I have no desire to stand in front of an easel, but I do
need to learn about composition, colors, lighting, etc.. I think my
imagination is good, but my background is stictly computer
engineering.
Hi Bailey,
I think that just studying theory will get you what you want.
However, I don't know if there are many courses around that would
teach that kind of stuff without making you do it. In school, we
learn the theories of colour mixing, only so that we can go use them
in a painting. Everything we learn can be gotten straight out of a
book but I think you get a better appreciation for it from actually
doing it.
For example, you can learn that you add a complementary colour to
darken something, not black (add red to darken green, not black).
This is just information. You can use it in 3DS by setting the
Ambient and Diffuse settings of materials to the right colours for
shading.
I think that doing any creative act in whatever medium will help in
any other medium. So that shading with a pencil will "get the
creative juices flowing", so to speak, so that it can help with
animation.
Aaron,
I don't see what is so creative about shading with a pencil. Imaging
the scene is creative, but I think realizing it is purely technical,
no matter if the medium is traditional or computer.
I don't need to learn how to mix colors. I can work fine with RGB and HSV.
What I do need to learn is what colors look appropriate and what sort of
colors, lighting, shadows, etc one should use to set a particular mood, etc.
I cannot stand to work in any medium in which changes are not easily
made during the realization phase. I gave up on pencils when I
started erasing holes in the paper.
Pardon my jumping on here, HA! This thread is funny to me. I've got
a Master of Fine Arts Degree from the San Francisco Art Institute and
I have managed to get pretty warm to this old computer. It did
however take me almost 10 years of incubating the idea before I
decided to actually see what kind of drawings I could make. Of
course I have been a practicing artist for 20+ years. The catalyst,
I suppose, was an educational grant for a comprehensive AutoCAD
course. Of course I love geometry, and technical drawing so 3D Studio
drew me in like a magnet. Been with it two years now and it is the
most exciting thing to happen in my life in a long time. I suppose
that alone qualifies me as a geek or a nerd. Have I done anything
with it? Yes. Is it art? <G> Well, that remains to be seen doesn't
it. My most recnt claim to fame is on the cover of the Oct/Nov issue
of PC Presentations/Productions. But I really love what I can do
with animation. Perhaps one day soon I'll get to the single frame
video output medium. I hate being pigeon holed.
If you want to do something, I say just do it. Let somebodyelse figure it out.
Michael B.
Michael,
I've been doing animations recorded single-frame, but would also like to get
into print. I hate rendering those beautiful images and then seeing what video
does to them. I'm about to put some work on BetaSP so maybe I will not gag as
much then. But nothing really comes close to those glossy prints.
Bailey
Bailey,
Well, I guess the pendulum swings both ways. Maybe you should submit some
samples to Don Johnson at PC Presentations/Productions 71631,42. Who knows,
maybe you can get into print too. The process of recording flics to a vhs
leaves a lot to be desired when compared to the good BetaSP single frame
recording.
There is a guy around here, Will Tate, that recently had a show in a gallery of
some big prints (34×60") he had done of some of his 3D Studio work. That was
wild. They looked great. They were printed on a Synergy Color Plotter. He
also had some Iris prints on Arches paper that were mighty impressive too.
There are some problems with the toners for archival purposes but the people
that cook up that stuff are working on the problem and expect to have some
improvements made soon. Personally, I would like to try getting some work out
of the new CACTUS system. The dithering and resolution enhancement algorithms
are the best.
But Hey, why do all that work if your not going to animate it??
Michael B.
Whoa! Another SFAI graduate! Howdy.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
You know, somehow after meeting you, I'm not surprised. Howdya<g>! When did
you graduate?
Michael B.
You're asking me to actually remember when I graduated from SFAI? It's all
such a foggy haze… '86, I think it was<g>. BTW, where are you located? When
did you graduate?
Cheers,
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
Anyone can learn the technique of sketching with a pencil if they are
willing to devote the necessary time. but it's the shading that will
define who has learned the technique and who has mastered it. They
used to teach sketching to engineering students just so they could
present their ideas in a form other's could understand. (guess they
don't do that anymore.)
I think you are wrong when you say that you don't have to learn how to
mix colors. If you are going to work in color, you have to understand
what will happen when you combine them. One of the exercises we did
(and this was a loooooong time ago) was to create some nonsensical
drawings, and then paint them. We had the use of any color we wished,
but we could only use one color per drawing. (well…actually it was
two colors cause we used the complement to grey out the primary to
create the palette.) That is quite an exercise. You should try it. I
think you will be quite surprised. But if you do, limit yourself to
just ten scale steps between the primary and black. That ought to be
really interesting on a computer screen.
Then there is the exercise where you use nothing but slashes of
primary color on a muted background……but that's for
later……<grin>.
The study of color is never wasted time. Did you know that for the
longest time grocery stores purchased pink fluorescent tubes for the
light fixtures over the meat counters ???? Wonder why they did that
????….<grin>. Maybe they still do ??? And why didn't they use
yellow instead ????
They no longer teach sketching to engineering students. It has been
replaced by CAD. Being a EE who changed in midstream to Computer E.,
I escaped without even a CAD course. We used Mentor Graphics stuff
to design circuits, but that is not really modeling.
Showing my age again……..<grin>.
hey Joe we did the same thing in painting studio in high school at
Kingswood (Cranbrook) and then at Banff Summer workshops – a big
chart with the color spectrum across the chart, white on top and
black on the bottom and you had to go down in 22 squares from white
to black in each hue mixing the opposite on the wheel,one you could
use white another you had to layer the raw hue over the white of the
paper and the value had to be equal across the hues at each step. I
think Charles Itten, started this stuff at the Bauhaus, then it got
carried to new york thru Albers, i think thats who showed these
studies to my painting teacher in Banff. I still have Itten's books
on my shelf.
…when i first got r2 all i did was play with saturation and
brightness in the mat ed. for a week….then there's photoshop and
photostyler color charts-they get their charts perfect everytime!!
pss. you went to Engineering AND Architecture School? im jealous.
Hi Rachel,
Ahhh……yes….The old color charts. We did ours on separate boards. One for
each of the basic hues. After we had finished them all, the instructor would
take the whole set and regrade them as an entire unit. There were some long
faces in the class after that little stunt, mine included…..<g>. But was
there a lot of attention given to tints, hues, shades and saturations after
that, and the instructor didn't even have to remind us. And a lot of us got to
the point where we could mix a matching color close enough on the first try to
get it exact with a little fiddling.
I was amazed at just how handy that ability came into play later. Working as a
tech illustrator for a bunch of engineers on government projects, you gotta
make the picture the exact, right color (after all, they gave you the damn
color chips didn't they……..<grin>.) Even engineers forget that there is a
difference between watercolor (or designers colors) on paper and oil based
paint on steel. For one of the chief project engineers we would have to mix the
metal colors light so when the final product was refrisketed for the
application of fixative on these colors, they would darken to the proper shade
an hue. The fixative also gave the colors the proper gloss of the oil based
paints…….sheesh…..talk about a production.
Ahhh….but that was a long time ago. Doubt that I could hold a brush that
steady any more, and I know that I couldn't draw a straight, even line with an
air brush again. All down the tubes for the sake of production speed on a
computer screen. OH!!! Well!!!
oh no if you had that kind of detail work under your belt, i dont think it
could be lost…do you really? you must hear the same voice telling you to
watch out or do this even as you work on the computer now…imean you are still
working in graphics or design on computer right?
,I love that 50sthru70s generation of presentation, that you describe…those
photos in books of "Design studio: GM" and there are like 6 guys with
cigarettes hanging out, with rolled up sleeves,(probably 4am) and a ziliion
paint brushes and air hoses all around ONE presentation drwg on a big
table..its like the early physics books like in the pre Fermi/Berkly era when
the greatest physicists were writing those books about building a vacuum tube
or this part and that part with these little black and white ink diagrams to
test the physics concepts….regards, bye….rachel
I know exactly what you mean. One of the reasons I work with
computers for art rather than paint is the concept of UNDO (even
though 3DS doesn't have it, but that's another story <g>). I enjoy
being able to adjust and tinker with stuff until it's perfect. I'm a
perfectionist.
It's not the technical things that make good art good, though. It's
the idea behind it. If you have creativity, doing something creative
in one area can help you in another area. You can get all the
information you want from design books, but that doesn't necessarily
mean it'll be used properly. Take a look at some movies that are
beautifully shot, but have really weak story lines. You come away
thinking "What a bad movie". If, however, a director does something
really clever and is a great storyteller, the acting is good, but the
film stock is garbagey and the colours of the objects in the film
don't match each other, you still may walk away thinking "What a
great movie".
A graphic (or "commercial") design course would probably give you what
you want. You do have to cut out and paste things, but that applies
to composition and layout. Very little drawing is involved but you
will learn about colour etc. and also about various print processes,
which will come in handy for computer work.
Michele
Then I think I will take graphic design.
Art and science can't be put apart. You won't understand light and
color unless you understand the physics involved (empirically or
otherwise). Like music is math applied to the ears and skin, visual
arts is math applied to your whole body. I prefer to think you don't
learn art, you just learn how to express it.
You're definitely right on that one. I have to admit I get an evil
glee from telling traditional art people that when *I* mix red and
green I get yellow. It makes THEM turn green. Hee hee hee, snobby
little up-yourself arteest, gotcha there. <g>
That's right! Look at Lenardo da Vinci….
You'd be selling yourself short if you didn't try some different
media in art. Computers are just another means to an end, and no
more valid or invalid than any other medium, and there is nothing
like variety for lighting the creative fire and inspiring artists to
do things a little different than the next guy. Although there is a
learning curve involved with all new media, you don't have to be
great at it. It could inspire you to try new and radical things on
the computer that you hadn't thought of before. The mind is a
strange thing…
But, depending on where you live, you'd be able to find computer art
courses. Here in San Francisco there are several excellent
electronic art foundations that teach courses. I know that my art
school education has given me some advantages that people who come
strictly from the computer world don't have, so I think you're right
in wanting to learn more about the craft. John Tissavary (La Luna
cie)
I tried drawing, but I kept erasing holes in the paper<G>! I will
look for computer art classes. The only reason I am kind of leary of
them is that it will drive me up the wall if, on the first day of
class, they say something like, "This is a computer. It runs
software programs." It wouldn't hurt though. I need to learn how to
think in 2D. I've see some of the stuff they do with Xaos Tools, etc.
and would like to learn how they come up with those ideas.
It might be easier to teach an artist computers than to teach a
computer geek to draw. But hey, I don't have much choice. I'm
already a geek. <g> So what am I supposed to do? Whether that
statement is true or not, it doesn't go on to give any options to
those who are already PC literate. My only response is that it is
certainly easier to teach computer animation to someone who is
computer literate than it is to teach someone who has no experience
with either computers or art.
Also, consider this scenario: a traditional artist, either new to a
company or of long standing, will be asked if he is interested in
learning the new art software. Someone will sit down and show them
how to do it. Manuals will be opened, and if the artist shows a bit
of interest and/or proficiency the company will even shell out a few
$K to have them trained in the software.
The opposite scenario: a company buys some art software. The only
person who expresses any proficiency/interest is an engineer or
programmer. Do you suppose the company will send him to art
classes? HA! Maybe when you-know-where freezes over. So he turns
out bad-to-mediocre stuff, and the drums start sounding: computer
people can't do art.
Excuse me, but when has anyone ever tried to teach us?!
I guess the attitude perpetuates itself. It's useless to teach art to
geeks, so why bother.
I have considered writing an art course just for computer people. But
first I gots to get real good myself and be the first guinea pig.
Heeheeheehee….
Just had to join this conversation after these last two messages.
There are several segments in today's society where artyness and
geekness cohabit the same individual. Take a look at any industrial
designer or architect to name just two.
And during the day when I had a "real" job. Though they didn't exactly
send me to school, I did have tuition to art school paid by some of
my employers. (and one even picked up half of the class materials
costs.) It was night school though.
Glad to hear it! It's about time!
I once asked an employer to send me to some art classes. He looked at me like
I was crazy. The entire graphics department was getting in-house Paintbox
lessons though.
So instead I hijacked a few of the "real" graphic artists (been to the
University program and all) and asked them to critique my work. They were
flattered and I learned a lot.
Unfortunately I cannot put this on my resume as "continuing education". <g>
Well……I ain't been in the market for a "real" job in a lot of
years, but when I was (and from discussions with people who were)
tutiton payments were a normal part of the compensation package.
Sometimes you had to stretch a point in getting a tie-in to your
present job description, but a little "artistic" imagination was
normally all it took.
Are today's company leaders so short sighted that they will not fund
employees that are looking to better themselves and increase their
value to the company for which they work ????
My experience with a "real" job is limited. But with the recession
on, I think it's harder to get the extras from employers.
>> There are several segments in today's society where artyness and geekness
>> cohabit the same individual. Take a look at any industrial designer or
>> _architect_ to name just two.
I'm not sure how to take that, but thanks, I think! <g>
Greg Pyros, AIA
Heeheeheehee…
Not to worry Greg. I've seen some of your work, and you got a good
blend of both…..<g>. I'll bet though, that every architect you know
has some form of the technical and the artistic in varying amounts,
even the worst one. They're necessary ingredients to even consider
this profession. And a good, a really good designer has both in large
amounts.
Joe <ex-AIA, ex-SARA>
>> Joe <ex-AIA, ex-SARA>
I didn't know that!
Sure are a lot of ex-architects in this business, maybe your comments
explain why!
Well Greg,
I still are a arty-choke, I'm just ex-AIA and ex-SARA. Being the entire firm
and in a limited nich market, there weren't that many benefits for the
percentage they wanted for corporate membership. And being a firm, I had to
have corporate membership both locally and nationally. (but you knew that)
Joe:
Oh, yes, I sure do know! Especially when I get the bills and am asked to pay
extra $$$ for any licensed employees, too!
Greg Pyros
Of course it's easier to teach a computer person art than a nothing
person both things. But from what you've told me, you're fairly
artistic. Just because you haven't taken formal courses doesn't mean
the ideas aren't there.
Both your scenarios exist. Where I work, an art person who applies
for a job doing animation obviously wants to get "into computers". We
don't train people. Someone can come in and sit down and use the
equipment and figure it out for themselves. Sure, people are
available for questions, but the bulk of the work is on the student.
That's the only way they're going to learn.
For the second scenario, if the computer engineer has no art
knowledge, he'll turn out bad stuff. But if he wants to learn, he
can take a course.
>> When has anyone ever tried to teach us?
Why would people go around looking for people to teach art to? Art
teachers have enough to do with students who come to them. If you
want to learn art, you can go to an art class. No one will turn you
away. I made the decision that I needed art to do animation, so, I
started taking art. I wouldn't have continued in computers and just
expected someone to teach me art one day.
That all said, I still think that computer animation is a discipline
which requires a fair bit of talent in both areas. I can argue the
other side also: I know a guy who is a creative powerhouse. He can
paint and draw and has all kinds of ideas for films and stuff like
that. But, he failed grade 10 math twice, and just barely passed it
the third time so that he could gradute and go to art college. He
asked me once about getting into animation and when I started talking
about "simple" concepts like 3D space, XYZ axes, vertices, faces and
the like, he was completely lost. There's no way, I think, that he
could ever be taught to use a computer. So, the computer animator is
a special blend of computer and art person. One needs both to get
by. Traditionally, these two areas have had nothing to do with each
other because they never needed to. Now, there's a new field forming
and only a certain kind of people can fall into that category.
Hey! A message I can agree with! Finally! <G>
By "when has anyone ever tried to teach us?" I meant that employers are far
more likely to try to teach computers to an artist than the opposite. The
employer gives the artist a little push, some encouragement and incentives
(higher pay, stability, whatever). He will get lots of opportunities to try it
out with his employer cheering him along, even paying for the classes.
In the opposite scenario, the subject of "learning more about art" isn't even
broached with the computer person. It may never have even occurred to him/her
as a thing to do.
I know this is not always the scenario but I'd bet it's common. I seen it
myself.
I think you're absolutely correct about employers being more apt to
teach computers than art. I think it's also much easier. Teaching
someone a software package or three is much easier and quicker than
teaching art theory, history, composition etc. There's so much more
to being artistic. Even a non-creative person can learn to use
software. I don't think the opposite is true. Artistic people are,
for the most part, born with an intrinsic artistic ability and are
taught more how to express that ability than the actual ability
itself. I would love to take some art classes myself and plan on
doing so in the near future.
Hi Michele,
Glad to hear we're finally agreeing <g>. I think it all depends what
you're in business to do. A computer engineering firm or where ever
computer scientists go to work (software companies, whatever),
doesn't need to have the artistic ability. An advertising firm which
handles animation, however, needs to have both art experience and
computer literacy.
Aaron
Sign me up for that art class for computer geeks! <g>
–Nat'n
teaching is just someone discovery something and sharing it..
paraphrase of Louis Kahn great spirit…"teacher" to Venturi, Stern
etal
leave the "nerds" on a beautiful island with lotus flowers and R3 and
Jack's tutorials…to get out of "company" world and leave the labels
in the dirt…. call it "field trip to freedom…start
seeeingggggggg…….yuuuudon't exist…yuuuuuuuare the rock uuuuare
the pooooool ovvv waaaattterrrr
uuuuuuarrrrrrrrrpaaaaaaaaaintinggggggggg….. poof"
ah….. Truth is Beauty, Beauty is Truth
>teaching is just someone discovery something and sharing it..
>leave the "nerds" on a beautiful island with lotus flowers and R3 and Jack's
>tutorials…to get out of "company" world and leave the labels in the dirt….
>call it "field trip to freedom…start seeeingggggggg…….
>ah….. Truth is Beauty, Beauty is Truth
I'll go! <g> But you can leave the lotus flowers there. The island and R3
would be good enough for me. <g> The tutorials would probably come in handy
too. <G>
"I am a polygon, I am a polygon, …" <not!>
Where do we sign up? <g>
JNJ
John lets have "Outward Bound" (OB is that wilderness training program
for teens) for 3D Studio- you get to lead the fishing part…then we
all do our "solo" survival experience with our computers, and we have
to survive alone for three days and DO ART…geeee thats our lives(g)
i think im the only one that would still need the tutorials….
(ps. finally got my letters done i sent your images and put a
copyright notice and ur card on the disk i sent you cc)
hee hee hee, I'm not John K Jordan, but John N. Jordan. 🙂 We've never
"chatted" before. <g>
I'll still go fishing though. <g> I'd love to learn fly…
Thanks for the note anyways. <g>
oh noHH!sorry JNJ! how could i get mixed up after that John Jordans
summary a few months back(g)! well its apleasure to meet and JKJ can
teach us both fishing……needless to say you won't be getting the
cc. and you won't miss it(g).
Happy Arting!
Rachael:
hehehe. I't good to "meet" you as well. (funny- this e-mail thing.)
I find it interesting how things are in a text only "world". I've been on
Internet lately, "at" a place called MicroMUSE. It's a multiuser virtual
world. Kinda like the old text game Zork, but with creatable "worlds" and
multiuser interaction. It's fun to be released from others preconceptions due
to how one looks, appearance, age, etc. and see how people react to what you
say and do. Anyway, mabe we can all go fishing there sometime. <g> It's
getting too cold do really fish here in KY.
See ya,
JNJ
Maybe I should host a retreat out here on the island! A "3DS
Retreat". I'll have PCs strewn about on the patio table, the coffee
table, even a few laptops tossed around like throw pillows next to
the bean bag chairs in the living room.
8:00 Morning stroll on the beach 9:00 Open discussion: Wild Bitmap
Combos for Innovative Materials 9:30 Coffee on the veranda 10:00
Experimentation hour 11:00 Lecture: Use of Australian Aboriginal
Motifs in 3DS Design 12:00 Lunch: Native cuisine – mangos, passion
fruit and local cheeses 1:00 Lesson: The Fit Tool Explored 2:00
Afternoon swim 3:00 Experimentation hour 4:00 Tea Break 5:00 Open
discussion on the day's work 6:00 Dinnertime barbie, Aussie beer
(mosquito cream included)
Bring your swimsuit and dongle. I'll provide the rest.
How many attendees should I expect?
Michele
Michele,
sounds like a great lesson plan! I'll be there shortly. In fact, this is my
last day on CI$ for a while.
Martin:
Have a great trip! See you when you get back! How will we manage the So. Cal.
3DS User's group without you?
Greg Pyros
Greg,
thanks for the well wishes. I'm going to have a lovely time crossing the
outback by platypus <g>.
I'm sure you'll have no problems managing the meeting without me, although I'd
love to see the video post tape by Digimation, to see if he just regurgitates
the manual like before, or actually comes up with some tips and tricks. Byeee!
Michele:
Sounds great! So when should we show up?
Better make it about two weeks long to really provide maximum impact. <g>
Seriously though, just think about what would come out of such an
intense/casual atmosphere, filled with the potpourri (sp?) of 3DS users from
around the globe. Blows the mind, eh?
Jeff
Yeah, I would love to do a weekend like the one I listed, but I'm not
sure how many people would show up from outside Brisbane. We have a
healthy user base here in Brisbane though. A plan forms…
I can just see you now.. "Karen, I know we're saving for your new car
but I have to go to Australia for a 3DS commune at Michele's
beachside cottage. I'll send you and the kids a postcard." I suggest
you duck immediately after. <g>
Glenn Melenhorst and I just finished up teaching four intense days of
classes here. But it was in a hotel conference room, complete with
overhead projector and stuff. Glenn's curriculum was spectacular. I
have so many ideas for my demo reel my head is spinning.
Did those Multimedia Resellers Guides make it to your presentation on time?
Nik
Ouch! The back of my head is aching just for *thinking* about that
trip. <G>
I saw your earlier messages about the training…sounded great. Did
you get chance to see ModelView? I have some friends who use
ModelView exclusively, but I haven't had the time (or inclination) to
learn Yet Another Application. From what I've seen of *their* work,
I'm not particularly impressed, but since we use a lot of Intergraph,
3D Studio is a hard sell. Does MV have anything to offer that 3DS
doesn't?
Cheers, JH
Michelle – You and Glenn ought to videotape his 'spectacular' presentations and
sell them… to me. <g>
David Taffet
What sort of a teaching style are you finding effective with 3DS. I
find a mix of hands-on, step by step for teaching the concepts and
command sequences then breaking the class into groups of twos for
individual projects towards the end of the class is working pretty
well. The Projects go from storyboard to animation(very short
projects by the way) with me stopping the class to explain problems
that come up and would be pertinant to the majority. I don't use
tutorials per se because I don't feel they are effective in an intense
32 hr class.
So when are you coming? <g>
Michele
whenever you say go……. Michele….
your studies and program sound like a great break and challenge, isaw the tail
of that message a while back…it must be hard to leave a successful practice
and step into a new realm and all for creative growth…..you deserve it, but
it must take some courage to do…Brava Bravisima!
ciao bella
(glad you are safe and sound after global whirlwind, it is so nice to have a
face and person to connect now!)
Hey, why don't you move your company here? We'll just like hang, and
think of animation ideas, then get our peon minion staff to actually
do the work, except for the fun parts we want to do ourselves.
Now must go to look for peon minion staff…
Michele
Michele:
>> Now must go to look for peon minion staff…
Are you accepting volunteers?
Greg Pyros
Sure, come on down. This is Amazon territory, though. Bring Susan, and she
and I will sip mint juleps on the veranda while you slave away on the PC. At
night you will be called upon to *entertain* us.
Hey, this is sounding better and better all the time…
Michele (just making it up as I go along)
Aaron,
PMJI, but I am feeling an urge to defend the CS/Engineering folk . . .
> I remember a few years ago when I
> first visited an animation firm here
> in Toronto, and they said that "It's
> MUCH easier to teach an artist to
> use a computer than to teach a>
> computer scientist to be an artist".
> I saw the logic behind that
> statement immediately, and
> pretty much believed it.
About three years ago, Mr. Rosebush, from Rosebush Visions Corp.,
presented a forum on computers and graphics at my alma mattre (sp),
WMU. He was among the first pioneers to do computer animation — and
did it entirely from raw code when he started.
When he was asked about which talents were peferred to be hired at
firm such as his, his reply was just the reverse of the what the
animation firm told you. He said it was easier to teach a CS person
or engineer to be artistic than vice versa.
His reasoning was that he found it more difficut to train artists to
be proficient with computers than for techies to lean the concepts of
art. For example, teaching an art major how to mathematically
construct a function-based polygonal landscape — vs. — teaching an
engineer how to effectively use a three point color scheme.
Personally, I think that a person's capacity is more a result of their
desire to achieve.
— James —
PS. The words "Hue" and "Scheme" frighten engineers, and the words
"Polygon" and "Vertex" frighten artists. 🙂
Mr. Rosebush should stick to raw code. I think he's 180 degrees off
the mark.
James:
Allow me to put in my 2 cents worth.
>Personally, I think that a person's capacity is more a result of their desire
to
>achieve.
I almost totally agree. <g>
I think that desire is probably close to 75%+ I have found that if I
don't want to do something, I just won't learn well. That's why many
are specializing in motivation in business/etc. They are very
closely linked.
Something that must be considered is ones self image. For example, my
father thinks that he isn't very creative. Therefore, he doesn't
like to do creative things. Sure, he isn't _that_ creative, but he
does not even try to develop/release his creativity. It's a "self
fulfilling prophesy". I believe everyone has inherent creativity, it
just depends on how it is "fed". This has to do with upbringing, and
other influences in ones life.
Ok, but now- on the otherside- I believe that some people are more
creative than others. This involves their strengths and weaknesses.
All may have the ability to be creative, but some more than others. I
don't believe that everyone is at an equal level of potential at the
beginning of their life. We all have our tendencies, and talents to
do this more than that, etc.
Yes, for 3D, I do feel that a solid technical understanding is
essential for doing anything well. One can't be %100 if one does not
understand how things work, at least in a general level.
Hi James,
That's really interesting. That's the first viewpoint I've heard
coming from the other direction. It sounds like Mr. Rosebush is one
of those rare people with the capacity for the combination of both
art and computers. I've seen animation programmed from raw code by
other computer scientists and it is, artistically speaking, junk.
With the advent of powerful computer graphics software, 3DS included,
of course, an artist has much less to learn to do computer
animation. An artist entering the field no longer has to learn to
"mathematically construct a function based polygonal landscape", just
how to tell the program to do what is wanted in simple terms. Part
of the greatness of animation software, I think, is in how
transparently it can be used. It's primarily a tool for artists, not
a toy for computer scientists. I'm definitely not saying that being
able to get into the guts of the system is bad. That would put me in
the postion of defending the Macintosh operating system (heaven
forbid <G>). It's just that words like "function-based" need not ever
be used to do something that, underneath, is "function-based".
Aaron