#A2000 price increase!
95 messages in this thread
I don't think I understand Commodore management, not at all.
January 1st, 1992 Commodore will raise the price of the Amiga 2000 from
$999 to $1900 (roughly) and the A2000HD to $2090. The quick math scholars
will realize that this move will put the average Amiga dealer out of the
video toaster business.
Video Toasters cost $2495, A2000HD's in January will cost $2090 for a
combined cost of $4585. That is about $600 more than a "Video Toaster
Workstation" from NewTek would cost. Do Amiga dealerships now have to
become "NewTek" dealers in order to be able to compete in a marketplace?
My hat is off to Commodore U.S. management. Only they could shoot a hole
into the best ballon amiga dealerships have had in a long time. I sure did
enjoy selling A2000s. Our A2000s may soon sport the name "NewTek", and I
will learn about "hardware upgrades on a disk" 🙂
Sigh..
-mark=
– via Whap!
Mark,
This one is really easy to figure out. Commodore has been bemoaning the
sluggish sales of the Amiga in the US for a long time. Now they are
addressing the problem. They obviously figure that by pricing Amigas two
to three times over their value the Amiga market in the US will go away,
leaving no embarrassing questions to be answered by marketing at the next
board meeting.
Bill, K3OZM
Mark–
This is INSANE!! I bought my 2000 years ago, and it didn't cost that
much!!! I think that Commodore is simply looking to destroy whatever is
left of the U.S. market…
Jonathan
– via Whap!
Maybe they plan another promotion to kick in at the same time, but that
rumor hasn't leaked yet ?
andy
Andy,
I know you hate people 'bashing' Commodore and even more hate people 'rumor
mongering'. Unfortunately that price increase is not a rumor. I work at
an Amiga dealership and we got a registered letter from Commodore telling
us the wonderful news.
I don't understand it.. I truly don't.
-mark=
– via Whap!
I left a message in the Commodore Service Forum asking about the price
increase. If this is true, I think every Amiga user should flood Commodore
with E-Mail complaining about this stupidity. The A2000 should be priced
just where it is now or lower if possible, to attract new Amiga buyer's who
want more expandability than the A500 offers and to offer A500 owner's an
inexpensive upgrade path to a new machine. Not everybody can afford a 3000.
I don't care one little bit what the "List" price of a 2000 is! The
"street" price is all that matters. Will the price change raise the street
price? Is the dealer cost higher with the new pricing?
….Mark 74335,1677
YES!!!!!! our new Cost is WAY above the current selling price!
BEN:Leigh's Computer's
Hmmmm. Come to think of it, I don't think I would consider buying a 2000
unless I NEEDED it for a Toaster installation. The 3000 is superior in
almost all aspects. I have a 2000HD, 2500/20 and a 3000/25 so I have
experience with the different machines. The only sore point is the
difficulty in installing a Bridgeboard in a 3000 in its present
configuration (most users won't care about this). Maybe the new BB packages
will address this.
Still, the increase is outrageous in terms of the real value of the
machine. There must be a gimmick that has yet to be announced. Andy
Finkel's comment should not be taken with a grain of salt.
….Mark 74335,1677
Has anyone thought of the possibility that CBM will raise the price of the
A2000, while dropping the price of the A3000, thereby making the A3000 sell
more than the A2000? OR, (please please please!) the new Amiga 4000 will be
$999 with 24 bit graphics, 16 bit, 8 channel sound, Workbench 3.0, 25MHz
68040, 10MB RAM….
Darin, SPC Superbase Technical Support
OR… maybe CBM thinks owners are so loyal that they'll push the A2000 even
at the higher price? <wry grin>
As for new machines: I think we need to first convince everyone in Europe
that they're needed. Unless they (the real mass Amiga market) begin
refusing to buy, I don't see why CBM would feel pressured to upgrade
things.
It occurs to me that CBM may know what they are doing. Consider this:
CBM MUST believe that the AMiga 3000 and the 500 are the future of the
AMiga… not the 2000. In that light, they probably assume that anyone
specifcally looking for an A2000 must be persuing video interests, ala the
Video Toaster and related products.
And products like the 2000 & Toaster combo CAN demand big bucks due to the
market in which they are sold and used. Even at the new higher prices, they
still represent a tremendous value/performance ratio in the video arena.
And by offering more promotions like POWER-UP, CBM can continue to offer
new products at reasonable prices to those of us who have been supporting
them for years.
Almost makes sense, huh? (which, of course, means it probablt ain't so)
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Aye, the A500 is their bread and butter. And it wouldn't be too surprising
if most A2000 sales these days are to new Toaster buyers. Plus, the higher
the MSRP, the better that sale prices look 🙂 🙂
But yeeeow. Two grand for an old 68000 machine? It's ridiculous. For
about $1400, I can buy a PT-68K with IBM slots, SVGA card, multitasking and
windows (under OS-9), with multiple serial/parallel ports, a hard disk, and
etc. The base A2000 price should be around $800 these days, not $1900!
kevin
>"The base A2000 price should be around $800 these days, not $1900!"<
Kevin: I agree… but as I said… it may be that the 2000 is being
positioned for video use… a specialty market. There has been no
announcement (as yet, anyway) about an increase in A3000 pricing. And
while I'd like to see the A3000/25/50 at a list of $1999, the $2249
promotion price is still a decent value. You must compare the 3000 pricing
to Macintosh pricing… what is the list on a 68030 25Mhz MAC witha 50 meg
internal hard drive? Forget about the 2000… you and I and the rest of us
who know the machine will be buying them used if we need them. CBM appears
to want to make a couple of bucks on the video trade with the 2000… they
took a lesson from NewTek. (I wonder if they say down together and said
"Athousand bucks is a nice round number for a price increase…" 🙂
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Michael: I haven't found an A3000/25/50 at anywhere close to $2249 yet.
Every dealer I've talked to quotes me either the $3090 list, or says it is
"about $2800". Even Creative Computers (ail-order) sells it for $2499. I
called C= the other day, and they said their POWER-UP on the 3000 expired
at the end of October, but that they are "considering re-instating it
soon".
So, if you know how (or where) an A3000/25/50 can be had for $2249, please
let me in on it! <grin>
—Dave
David: I'll check around… but you really would be better off spending a
few $ more and buying it from a local dealer… someone who you can yell at
when the scsi port doesn't work the way you think it should 🙂
BTW, My guess (and that's all it is) is that CBM will announce a first
quarter promotion in the next few weeks. I know it seems like CBM is brain
dead… but they really aren't… they just have different priorities than
we users have. They have every intention of making the machines thatthey
WANT to manufacture and sell available at what THEY think WE think is an
attractive retail. 🙂
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
I know that the News Media are to be trusted as much as CNN for news, but
in today's USA Today in the money section, there was a stock analist that
made his 1992 predictions and I quote, "Commodore is the Sexiest Stock for
1992", He goes on to mention the Amiga as their Flagship computer. He is
predicting that C= stock will be one of the only computer company in 1992
to realize large gains (over IBM and Apple.)
– via Whap!
dream on.
JOHN – The Lost Southerner!!
I'm just speculating there's a part 2 to the announcement that could turn
it into a rational strategy. Maybe they are going to drop the price of the
A3000/16. Maybe they are going to have a new promotion. I don't know.
Believe it or not, they aren't crazy. (I know, its a stretch sometimes 🙂
)
andy
Andy, I think I'd have to disagree with "…they aren't crazy". While I
have the greatest respect for engineering and CATS, I do believe that the
US marketing people are certifyably insane.
-sja
Steve –
> I do believe that the US marketing people are certifyably insane.
Depending on my mood and level of exhaustion, I sometimes get ticked off by
this sort of comment (it's my medical background…) even though I don't
REALLY think you meant it literally.
I feel a MAJOR problem of corporate America in general, and CBM in
particular, is that too many of the policy-making and marketing people are
too insulated from the real world of what us guys, the buyers and users,
think about, want, and would be willing to PAY for in the way of features
and products.
It isn't that they KNOW what we the consumers want, and are perversely,
irrationally, INSANELY doing the opposite, but rather that they DON'T KNOW,
and DON'T KNOW THAT THEY DON'T KNOW!
It isn't insanity, it's ignorance, insularity, stupidity, lack of business
sense, and lack of common sense.
. . . . . JimDoc
One of definitions of "insane", from my handy dandy Webster's New World
Dictionary, is "very foolish", and from my New World Dictionary, "extremely
foolish, completely lacking in common sense". Well, looking at your
definition for their actions ("…and lack of common sense") I'll stick to
what I said — from a semantic point of view it is correct. As you
probably know, insanity is not an accepted medical term and only a loosely
used legal term.
There isn't a decent definition of sanity, in the sense of mental
competance, that's ever been made. It's all context sensitive; Psychiatry
is a (very) "soft" science, if you're willing to lable it a science at all.
From my point of view, which admittedly is egocentric as heck, I can't view
a [system] that goes through fads as a "science" at all.
CBM's US marketing is a failure in the Darwinian sense; it's pathalogical
in that it's killing the host, and all us foolish symbiotes who thought
this looked like a healthy beast to attach to. CBM's marketing is so bad,
it doesn't even attract predators – a very good marker for a failure in any
ecosystem.
Mind you, it doesn't scare predators off – they just look for something
that looks like it would provide some potential nourishment if attacked. If
it did scare them off… that's a whole 'nuther ballgame.
Insane – in the sense of being quite clueless – sure. Easily.
<muttering>
Ben
<laughing, smiling> please, please, PLEASE write for BYTE.
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Well, I'm going to talk to them. Writing for them, that's up to them – but
I've decided to indicate that I am interested.
Ben
"I've decided to indicate that I am interested."
good… I'm glad to hear that. I hope that they are not stupid, and jump
at the chance to offer a broader perspective on computing.
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Ben–
I hope that BYTE take you up on a column. They have claimed that they have
some interest in supporting the Amiga…although they have not really
delivered in the past.
You get a column, and I'll subscribe.
Jonathan
– via Whap!
Well I just might renew my subscription to Byte if you do. Byte is a good
rag but I had to let it go because of the Amy coverage. If they would just
include it in product comparisons and acknowledge that it exist I would
have kept my script up, Thought Bob Ryan would change things but….
..Steve
Whap!ping from beautiful coastal South Carolina
Steve –
Well, I guess, given your working definition of "insane", that we actually
agree. I never thought of it in that way, but it does fit.
. . . . . JimDoc
Er, the second definition came from the World Book Dictionary.
Mark, I saw the letter you got. Basically, the price increase is $350 more
than the pre-Xmas promotion special (for the A2000). The increase for the
A2000HD is about $100. CBM stated that the Xmas pricing would go back up
— it has (or will on the first) plus some.
Commodore never ceases to amaze me. What a bunch of total losers.
Nick
Except for CATs, AMEN.
Ben
Mark, When Commodore announced the Xmas promotion price of $999 they also
said that when the promotion was over the price would be going back up. I
just got off the phone with Archembault (sp?) — he says Commodore will be
making an official announcement shortly, the price will be going up as
announced earlier, but not the $900 (or so) that you've stated.
-sja
Steve: any word on the pricing of the A3000 systems, 16 and 25 versions? I
have been debating about buying the A3000-16 for the promotion price of
$1849, thinking that perhaps the A3000-25 may come *down* in price after
the holidays. Are they planning to raise the 3000s, lower them, or just sit
tight?
—–Dave
Dave, I didn't ask, however, my _guess_ would be that all Xmas season
promotional prices will be gone as of Jan 1 (or shortly thereafter).
I heard that Commodore was stopping production of the 16Mhz A3000. Any
truth to it.
I have no idea, but, if true, it's a great move (IMHO).
It was my understanding that the 16Mhz version will no longer be produced.
John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
Well the prices I gave you were from the registered letter Commodore sent
us. If they have changed it since then… all I can is "great!"
-mark=
– via Whap!
Steve,
I will try to get the exact letter from Commodore and post it.
-mark=
– via Whap!
Mark: What the heck are they DOING? They finally get decent prices on their
products, and then they go ahead and *raise* the prices higher than they
were originally? In these economic times?! I was thinking seriously about
buying an Amiga, but it looks pretty bleak now.
BTW, have you heard any rumors about the A3000s? Are they going up as well?
It looks like I'll have to get that A3000-16 for $1849 before I can't even
afford a 2000 without a hard drive!! Yikes!
—-Dave
As I think about it, I am sure the prices will be well down by the summer.
Check out what $1800 will get you in the msdos world. No way would someone
not already in love with Amiga come into the market at the high prices
suggested. A few video freaks maybe. Everyone else will get windows on a
486 machine with a hard drive and excellent graphics….
there are tons of 386 clones with VGA available for $1100. Maybe someone
thinks Amiga customers come from Mars or something. Anyone who can read a
newspaper knows what a decent computer costs these days – and it is under
$1500, complete with hard drive and monitor.
Can this be true?? I was just speaking to a student who wants to get a
computer. Given what he can get in an MS-Dos machine for $2000, I could
not really urge him to look at the Amiga. Only the 500 is price
competitive I think.
In a letter dated December 16, 1991 Geoff Stilley, Vice President of U.S.
Sales writes "Commodore has finalized its 1992 marketing and sales plans.
As we unfold these plans over the next several months, we hope to position
our products in a manner that will enable you to become more aggressive in
distince vertical markets. In particular, Commodore will focus on the
presentation, education and government markets. Thse markets in conjuntion
with Amiga products should enable you to take advantage of the unique
features and benefits of the Amiga when approaching these unique and
expanding industries.
[Skipped discussion about 'solution' packages]
Effective January 1, 1992 the SRP of the A2000C and A2000HD will be changed
as follows:
A2000/C SRP = $1,937 (This is a single drive A2000 no HD)
A2000HD/P SRP = $2,090 (This is the single drive with 50MB HD)
—–
Folks, I am paraphrasing in places and not duplicating entire price tables
since it is meant for dealers eyes only. However, the price change is
real.
-mark=
– via Whap!
Mark,
Is the /C 2000 package by any chance a bundled package including
the monitor?
Don
No, not as far as I know.
-mark=
– via Whap!
This price INCREASE is CRAZY – As some one else said, the 2000's were NEVER
that high. Also, my husband when told said "No one _raises_ prices in the
computer industry!" (We're in Houston, and Compaq has just had a major
corporate bloodbath caused in part by high prices in a very competitive
market!)
If they are serious, and are raising dealer costs such that dealers have to
go along with it, I believe I'll sell my Commodore stock, and regret
talking friends and family into the Amiga market (and I have _5_ Amigas in
_my_ house!)…….
– Jane McAshan, 73030,1601 – via Whap!
Well I can tell you this much, that is positive, there is a great deal more
profit in the systems for the dealer. If the dealer wants to bring the
price down, he can and still make a minor profit.
I hear that, and this is rumor, that the "Toaster Workstation" will also
get more expensive.
-mark=
– via Whap!
Mark,
Were the similar magnitude price increases on the rest of the Amiga line or
mostly on the 2000?
Jeff Schweiger
What I have posted is all I know. I have not heard mention of any other
price changes.
-mark=
– via Whap!
Mark,
Thanks.
Jeff Schweiger
Jane,
You might consider the guerilla tactic. Buy more CBM stock, join up with
the guy who was forcibly removed from the stockholders meeting and make
life miserable for the idiots that run the marketing department. Maybe if
enough Amiga owners can get stock and vote as a block it can at least make
corporate life embarrasing and difficult enough that maybe the
muckety-mucks will come around.
wmc
>>join up with the guy that was forcibly removed from the stockholders
meeting…
I didn't hear about this. Would you provide us with details?
Leslie,
It was in the Wall Street Journal and the Philedelphia Enquirer (I think)
reports on CBM's stockholder meeting. Some Amiga and stock owner who Gould
apparently tried to get away from by moving the stockholders meeting to the
Bahamas, went to the meeting and from the floor questioned the high CEO
salary (that is apparently higher than for any other computer company –
even Big Blue). He also questioned the Marketting policy and attempeted to
introduce a stockholder motion to cut the salary and provide a larger
Amigia marketting budget or some-such. He refused to be ignored, so they
had him bodily removed. Apparently there were other Amiga/stock owners
there who had poited questions as well. I am fuzzy on the details, but I
think it may have also been reported in Amiga Report 16 or 17 (the on-line
report that gets uploaded here).
I'm sure someone here can be more exact. Not being a stockholder, I was
just amused to see the item and didn't really key on it so…(fog drifting
into the little greay cells…)
wmc
Thanks for the info. Most CEO's make too much money. 60 Minutes did a
report on CEO's that was great. You know how we say we can't compete with
Japan because their labor costs are lower? A CEO in Japan makes about 17
times what their average employee makes. In America they make about 1000
times their average employee.
Leslie,
Worse yet, when a company does bad, the workers get laid off -er excuse me,
the politically correct term is the companies get downsized- but that
drives the stock price up. Managers get bonuses ( most of their
compensation is bonuses) based on stock performance, not company
performance. So, they artifically drive the stock up by dropping workers,
pick up thier bonuses but the company just gets weaker. Go figure.
American companies reward the short term stock performance instead of long
term company/product performance – and they aint necessarily correlated.
wmc
I completely agree with you. This kind of hot air economics gives the
impression that a company is doing better than it actually is. The stock
markets jump up and down, the companies get weaker, more people are out of
work so the economy is weaker, and the CEO's laugh all the way to the bank.
I think a CEO's salery should be linked directly to their companies LONG
RANGE performance with increase in stock prices being only one element.
Leslie,
I'm gonna call you on that one. I'll bet you canNOT name 5 CEO's who
make 1000 times what their 'average' employee makes.
>>I'll bet you canNOT name 5 CEO's who make 1000 times what their 'average'
employee makes.
Sorry, Vic. I didn't do the research. As I said, that was taken word
for word from a report on 60 Minutes.
Hi, Sorry to butt in but I think the figure was 160 times. A typical CEO
for a car maker makes $6,000,000 per year. Divided by 160 is $37,500. About
right for an $18.75 per hour worker. The highest paid CEO in the USA makes
$16,000,000.
Of course in Japan it is only 16 times as much. A typical CEO in Japan
makes only $600,000 or so.
Later, Randy
Yeah, I would have to agree with you about the 1000 times, maybe he meant
100 times.
– via Whap!
Hey, the January 'Byte' has a Dell ad for a 20mhz 486P, with 50meg HD, 2mb
RAM, and VGA color monitor for $1,999. If I was looking for a clone right
now, I know where I'd be going. I can't knock Dell for just about
anything. Dang nice computer, and great service too.
I've seen messages here that say you shouldn't compare prices on A3000's
with 386 computers, because the A3000 is closer to the 486. Well, this
seems to put the 486 a bit cheaper, right? And does anyone doubt that the
486 prices will drop another 20-50% over the next year? What will happen to
A3000 prices? Does Commodore really think that their professional
marketing department can entice buyers with less power for more money?
BTW, the same ad lists a price of $2,899 for a 25mhz 486, 4MB ram, 100MB
HD, Super VGA (1024×768), etc…. oh well….
–jp–seattle–
This is getting ridiculous. Two of my bosses just recently joined the "486
revolution". I found out when I told them I was interested in getting a new
computer. "A 486, eh?" they both chorused. "No, I was thinking about an
Amiga 3000…" "A GAME machine!!" they scoffed. Then I told them the
prices. $1849 for the 16 and $2800 for the 25. "HA!", they said. "We just
picked up a 'loaded' 486 for $1500, and you want to spend a grand more on a
GAME machine!" I left while they chuckled.
You know, other than the put-downs, they're absolutely right. Why would
ANYONE in their right mind buy an Amiga for the prices that they list? The
Amiga is NOT a MAC. I still don't know why people are willing to shell out
$5000+ for a MAC-II and even almost $10G for a loaded Quadra. Maybe
Commodore thinks that their market is mostly government, which gives them a
licence to rip off, and their individual sales go to MAC wanna-haves who
are nuts about video, and will pay any inflated price to run the Toaster.
It just seems to me that Commodore doesn't consider IBM and its clones as
direct competition. That's an outdated attitude that will KILL the Amiga in
the not-too-distant future, IMHO. End of lecture. 🙂
—-Dave
Ask your bosses what makes the Amiga a "game machine." There are more
games avalible for IBM that there are for Genesis, Turbo-Graphix 16, Game
Gear, Lynx, Gameboy, Atari 5200, 7800, & XE Game System all together. You
could probably through the ST and Amiga into your argument. I never let
people slip the "game machine" cr*p into the conversation without having
them explain it. No one has explained it to me yet.
"Game machine? No, this isn't a PC Clone… it's an
Amiga – you know, true multitasking, GUI and CLI
interfaces, run time loadable device drivers,
speech synthesis, multiple co-processors, linear
memory architecture, any number of additional
ports, huge memory capacity, huge HD
capacity, Clone and Mac emulation in hardware,
lighting fast… Game Machine? No, you're
confused. That's that Intel-based trash
IBM and the Clonemakers have been pushing."
<walks away, whistling>
Ben
Ben, it's like trying to argue with a wall convincing someone an Amiga
isn't a "game machine" when their mind is set. Facts really don't seem to
matter one bit. To people that aren't familiar with computers someone that
sits down at a keyboard and seems to know his/her way around is thought of
as being smart. It is my experience that most computer jockeys are single
minded and as flexible as a brick wall. One manager at work who is
respected as being quite intelligent asked me what kind of computer I
owned. When I told him it was an Amiga he asked what clock speed the CPU
ran at. I explained MINE was a 68000 that runs at 7 mhz but… Too late.
I lost him. He didn't hear anything after that.
You should have said "it's a multiprocessor machine… the comparable
aggregate clock rate is about 35.7 Mhz".
14.28 for the blitter
14.28 for the Copper
7.14 for the CPU
That's likely to keep a "swinging door" mentality open, and what's more,
it's true.
Whne someone asks you "the clock rate" of your system, that's the first
sign that they probably have NO clue as to what they are talking about.
When you're being asked by someone who knows (even a little bit) whats
going on, they will ask, usually in this order:
What chip is used for the CPU?
What Clock rate is it being run at?
What clock rate is the BUS running at?
Are there any CO-Processors, and…
if so, what clock rates are THEY runing at?
Without answer to all those questions, you can't come very close to a good
understanding of the compute power of a particular machine.
I have yet to get into a conversation with a PC or Mac owner where they
didn't go away with the solid knowledge that they owned a slower machine.
:^)
Also, we're over 35 Amiga owners in Glasgow now… and you can bet that
didn't happen beacuse of CBM. I brought the first Amiga into this town a
few years ago. Now, there's a club, a BBS, and a newsletter. There are even
a couple in the local school.
It takes work, no question – and the one tthing that always floats around
in the back of my mind is this… "I'm telling these people to buy a
COMMODORE product? I bet I'll suffer for this later"
Ben
Thanks, Ben. Next time I'll use the "multiprocessor" argument upfront.
I could use you in some arguments about the Amiga. I have convinced one
friend to buy an Amiga. (Battle Chess was the deciding factor. He hasn't
been unhappy with purchase.)
As for Commodore, don't you wish someoone frm the marketing department
would someday pop in here and ask for feedback. The scroll rate would beat
CI$ records!
"don't you wish someoone frm the marketing department would someday pop in
here and ask for feedback."
(hehe) Come on. Are you kidding? I doubt that anyone in CBU marketing knows
how to telecommunicate.
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
>>(hehe) Come on. Are you kidding? I doubt that anyone in CBU marketing
knows how to telecommunicate.
True. I don't think they know that much about computers much less
telecommunication.
More like, step in here and "get popped" as feedback. Right in the eye. :^)
But yes, I wish they would get on the stick. I see there were ads out this
fall, but I never saw one of them, nor do I know anyone who saw one.
I've been tempted to call Byte and offer to write them an Amiga column.
Really. I doubt they would find space for such a thing, and *I* would have
to make the time for it… I'd also have to get over a pathalogical
annoyance with Byte itself for lack of Amiga coverage… but that might be
easily done if I had only myself to blame, eh? <grin>
As for Pc<->Amiga<->Mac talks… I've been "honing" that one for years. :^)
Ben
"I see there were ads out this fall, but I never saw one of them, nor do I
know anyone who saw one."
Ben:
Be fair. I mean where exactly IS Montana.
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
I think the Byte idea would be a great idea!
Speaking of BYTE, I read and respect the magazine, BUT, as I read the list
of "Products of the Year" and didn't see the Video Toaster mentioned among
them, I was disgusted! That surely is the most innovative product to come
along in years and it rated lower than an upgrade to a word processor, give
me a break! All I can say is write a column and I promise I'll read it!
Bill
– via Whap!
Commodore remains the best reason NOT to buy an AMIGA…
coming frm one who owns both a 1000 and a 2000 and needs yet another AMIGA
( maybe this time a 3000!)
..Bill 😉
yep – that's right. IMHO.
Not the techies, tho – CATS is wonderful.
Ben
It's easy to see what makes them think the Amiga is a "game machine". They
simply don't know about the capabilities of the machine, and if you try to
tell them, they don't care. Plus, if you go into any big software store
(Software Etc., Walden Software, and so on..) you'll find ACRES of MS-DOS
stuff, a few good stuff for Apple/MAC, and, if they carry anything for the
Amiga at all, it's all GAMES!! If you want any productivity software for
the Amiga, you have to either mail-order it, or go to an "authorized
dealer" who sells Amigas. To IBM folks, the Amiga is simply a big C-64.
I know better, but only because I just happened to get a primer on the
Amiga from a friend who owns one. No help from Commodore Marketing people.
Oh, and plus the IBM folks talk endlessly about the "tons" of "lowcost"
(read: $80) shareware and copied programs they can immediately fill up
their hard disks with as soon as it starts to spin. I, on the other hand,
would have to *buy* software. Gee, what a shame.
—–Dave
Dave –
The software that Software Etc. carries seems to vary by store. I'm not
sure the one near me carries any Mac Software anymore. It does carry a
fair amount of Amiga software, including some productivity software.
Jeff Schweiger
Yes, there is more IBM productivity stuff in the mall software stores
but there is BY FAR more entertainment stuff per title. (By "per title" I
mean counting the 50 boxes of "Windows" and 50 boxes of "MSDOS 5.0" as two
titles.) I agree completely that productivity software for Amy is hard to
find. Coommodore should be addressing that problem full time!
Leslie,
The "game machine" image (and perhaps definition) comes from the
ratio of game software to productivity software available.
What that exact ratio is I don't know, but would guess if there's
more game software available than productivity…it's a game machine.
Don
Actually, the ratio of game to productivity software is exactally what I
was thinking. Please don't tell IBM or Mac users. I love it when they are
at a loss for words <g>. I DO have a point, though. There is a devil of a
lot of game software out there for IBM and it doesn't even come close to
tarnishing their image.
Leslie,
I'm not talking about titles…I'm talking about $$ spent. I
haven't any idea what the actual numbers are, but my guess is that for at
least the IBM, the numbers are significantly on the side of productivity
software.
The problem comparing titles is that there are enough IBM clones in
homes to create a viable game market for the machines, but there X times as
many machines at work and those machines, for the most part, don't have one
dime spent on game software.
For example at work, we have 100's of clones, each with at least
$1,000 worth of software spent on them. Even if there were just as many
machines at home (for those here) as there were machines at work…I'd bet
dollars to dougnuts that each of them doesn't have at least $1,000 of game
software spend on it and 0 dollars spent on productivity software.
We are not atypical.
Don
I see your point but the issue is whether it is fair to call the Amiga a
"game machine." When people on other platforms say this they are equating
the Amiga to a toy or something like Nintendo. The implication is that you
really aren't ready for a "real" computer yet; you're still playing games.
I have heard this said with such smugness that you'd think there was NO
game software for IBM or Mac. Personally, I think the people that say this
really don't know much about computers or only know about their own system
and nothing more. Besides, games software is probably the toughest
software to write. Super Nintendo would probably make a pretty good
computer if you slap a keyboard and disk drive to it <g>.
A Nintendo with a good OS would make a decent computer… didn't I just
read that OS/2 2.0 comes on 18 floppies and requires 40 megs of your HD to
install it? I wonder if they got it to do multi-tasking yet? <smirk>
Keith
Leslie,
I'm not saying the Amiga is a game machine…I was just defining
the phrase.
Don
> RE: the Dell ad…
That's probably a 486SX, right? A 486SX is a great chip for Intel, but
not so hot for the consumer. I think you'd do better with an 40 mhz 386
and pocket the change… But the point you make with the A2000 being too
dang expensive is well taken. Apparently, the A2000 is being purchased
these days mostly for its video capabilities, and Commodore figures these
people won't mind paying extra.
That makes the A500 the computer for the masses, the A2000 the computer
for the video/multimedia segment, the A3000 for the high end power user
market. I think it's a lousy strategy, too…
– via Whap!
The $1,999 was a 20mhz 486SX, yes. But the same ad lists a 33mhz 486DX
with 100meg HD, 15" ultrascan monitor (super VGA), two floppies, and 4meg
ram for $2,999. That is no slouch machine in my book.
I'm still a die-hard Amiga convert. Frankly it just comes down to being
comfortable with the machine, and what I can do on it. It 'fits' me very
well. So to some degree I'm likely to stick with it for years, despite
prices. I'm likely to get an A3000 w/040 next year, for instance. The
prices bug me, but that's the price I pay for getting the 'Amiga' benefits.
It's not folks like me Commodore needs to convice to buy, though. It's all
those others who currently only consider PC's and Macs…. and given the
price/performance barrier, and their marketing savvy, I really don't expect
it to happen. Sigh.
–jp–seattle–
That's right. Classic case of preaching to the converted. You – or I –
don't need convincing because we're well aware of what the machine offers.
UNless others are made aware of those things, they can't sell it at any
price.
That's why I didn't say anything about the price stuff that Wayne and Ben
have mentioned – I don't think it's all that significant. Your average game
weenie is after a 500, and they're still priced very affordably. The 3000
class machine, 030 or 040, is more than competitive performance wise with
anything in the clone world; we're only missing DSP hardware, and a few
classes of software (not products, entire classes of products) to be a
complete machine. Otherwise, it's a killer, and the price isn't out of
line, though less expensive during a recession such as the current one will
help, something in the over 1000$ range isn't exactly an impulse buy.
No question that a 486/33 isn't a slouch. The operating system is, though –
windows is a dog. OS/2 is better, but has it's own problems. Barry
Chalmers, a programmer who works here has about 18k$ of OS/2 PS/2 stuff.
Know what we gave him for XMAS? An Amiga… he wanted one so bad it was
funny. Guess what has a dust cover on it now? <grin>
Anyway… CBM will kill the Amiga yet. You just watch.
Ben
hey, don't worry. NewTek recently raised their price about $1000, maybe
they'll cooperate with Commodore and raise it some more. What planet are
these guys from??? Haven't heard of the recesion?? Truth is 'truly'
stranger than fiction.
I heard a rumor that CBm raised the price because NewTek raised their
price. 🙂 I'm not clear on the time-line of these events… CBM did
have a promotion running this summer that placed the bare A2000 at about
$999. It's strange that they raised the price. I don't get it. You can
get an 8 meg, 486/33 with 200 meg drive and monitor and DOS and Windows for
$2950 from Gateway. Again, it's a great PC for an incredibly low price.
At $1K, the A2000 is terrific. I'm not so sure at $2K if you really get
such terrific value for your money. A 68000 machine is not a power system
by any stretch of today's imagination. A 68000 Amiga is a pretty weak
sister. It's OK for $400 in the form of an A500 'game 'machine, but not in
a 2000. My latest indications as a dealer are that prices ARE going up and
the A2000 promotions are OVER.